What's up with RFK, Jr getting passed over?

[pilsner]

He's a kickass Democrat who wasn't afraid to speak out about the Bush crime syndicate when it counted (including impeachment) and is the rare Dem pooh-bah who will talk about election fraud.

I think he supported Hillary in the Dem primary in hopes of replacing her in the Senate. And heard him mentioned for head of EPA and Attorney General a few months ago.

Not that continuing his work at NRDC and hosting Ring of Fire isn't critically important.

RFK, Jr was right all along and stands up for principles. Yet, the Dems (and worse Repubs) who supported chimpie's war mostly get the appointments.

WTF?

[JDPriestly]

1. Obama is what he always was -- a Reagan admirer.

Obama is appointing conservatives. His token liberal appointments don't seem to get confirmed.

[WI_DEM]

23. Oh please. He's done quite a few progressive things since being president

and changed the course that Bush had us on.

[Taverner]

50. Ahhh, but he didn't add Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney to his cabinet

He hasn't saved the world - so I guess we're all supposed to hate him now :eyes:

That poster will only be happy when whackjobs like McKinney - and even then, they would lose faith in their whackjob.

[KamaAina]

100. Or even Dennis Kucinich, for that matter

:eyes:

[Taverner]

48. Ahh so he failed the political test

IN the heady days of the USSR, a doctoral student had to complete two tests to earn his or her Ph.D. One was a test on the content of his degree, the other was the political test. You had to pass both.

The reactions of some DUers with their pitchforks for purity leads me to believe the political test did not go away when the USSR did...

[Carolina]

2. K&R I know, I am not pleased either

Rahm, Geitner, Summers, Gregg

Change?

[ConsAreLiars]

3. He's said he has no interest in the Senate or other appointments.

He believes the work he is now doing, building the movement at the grassroots, like River Watchers, and through directly bringing the destroyers to account through NRDC, is more effective.

[pilsner]

13. Noblese oblige

The Kennedy's live by it. If the President called, RFK would serve.

[ConsAreLiars]

16. He is already serving in the best way he can.

If he thought that he could do more good within the machinery of government, I'm sure he would have indicated he was open to that option. As of now, he has said he believes he can do more for the common good outside that system.

[L. Coyote]

17. He also said he has too many kids for so little pay.

[Skittles]

4. maybe he paid his taxes

[pilsner]

6. he must be squeeky clean

considering his exposes documenting election theft in Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair. Otherwise they would have Spitzered him.

[pnwmom]

14. That doesn't mean he wants all his finances to be public. n/t

[karynnj]

26. He has a long ago heroin conviction - not exactly squeaky clean, though that was far in the past

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. He was busted once for heroin. I think that's why he hasn't run for office.

[question everything]

5. Blaming vaccines for autism put him in the kook corner (nt)

[pilsner]

9. RFK was proven right about vaccines and autism

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.

The unprecedented concession was filed on November 9, and sealed to protect the plaintiff's identify. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to the case.

The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services,

[garybeck]

10. thanks for that.

i have kept up on the issue a little and found there while the media blitz has insisted there was nothing wrong with thimerosal, there was lingering evidence to the contrary and doubt in my mind.

my son just got his immunization today. it's my understanding that thimerosal has been removed from all children's vaccines.

[question everything]

22. Yes, thimerosal was removed from vaccines... for the wrong reasons

Read below for an excellent rebutting of the comment that you replied to.

[TZ]

25. there is nothing wrong with thimerosol

BTW, the vaccine accused of causing autism (MMR) has NEVER HAD THIMEROSOL IN IT.
If RFk,jr can't even grasp this simple fact why should he head a scientific organization. Why not put a fifth grader in? The level of scientific literacy might be the same.

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. No, he bloody well wasn't

there have been DOZENS of studies on a possible link between vaccination and autism. NOT A SINGLE ONE of those studies has found any link. What the government may or may not do in Federal Claims Court means fuck-all as to whether vaccines cause autism; the weight of medical evidence is against any such link, and the outcome of any particular LEGAL case has zero relevance to the MEDICAL issue.

RFK Jr is a crank and his position on vaccines and autism is wrongheaded nuttery.

Also: the case referenced in the article concerns a young girl who had a rare mitochondrial disorder exacerbated by vaccination. She is NOT autistic. She had a *genetic* disorder which was NOT induced by anything other than her own genetic inheritance.

[emilyg]

20. Thanks for the facts.

[question everything]

21. Thanks for setting the record straight

It is amazing how so many people are willing to accept questionable "science" instead of a solid one. As with evolution we are not talking about "an alternative theory." We are talking facts, we are talking reproducible test results.

My only question about vaccination is the multiple ones and, apparently, we are going to get even more multi vaccines. I wonder - have no facts at all - of whether loading the young immune system with so many antigens together may be too much. Whether they should be given one at a time or two at a time even though the poor babies would be pricked more often.

[LeftishBrit]

52. Exactly.

It is known that there are some children who should not get certain vaccinations for medical reasons: one of the commoner reasons is that they have an immune disorder, either congenitally or because they are getting chemo. Also vaccinations should be postponed if a child is acutely ill.

This is not the same thing as saying that vaccines cause autism.

[bottomtheweaver]

63. The link is to mercury, not to vaccines, as you well know,

because it's pointed out here about twenty times a day. Can't you guys get a new script or something?

[Spider Jerusalem]

71. There is no link to mercury.

Fucksake. There was never any bloody mercury in the MMR vaccine (which is the vaccine that fraud Wakefield claimed was responsible for autism in his infamous paper in the Lancet). Could YOU bother to acquaint yourself with facts?

[bottomtheweaver]

79. Wrong. See below. And below. And below.

Or just read the article and quit spinning before you make yourself throw up:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

[bottomtheweaver]

70. "The child's claim ... that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism"

Did you catch that? The claim was that "mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism," and she won, and a team of doctors at the US DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES signed off on it. The claim that she had a genetic disorder came from the defendant's CONCESSION. Here's the link for you to ponder:

The child's claim against the government -- that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism -- was supposed to be one of three "test cases" for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and "concluded that compensation is appropriate."

The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal).

Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: No response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of "relatedness;" insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and "watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination."

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

In its written concession, the government said the child had a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder that was "aggravated" by her shots, and which ultimately resulted in an ASD diagnosis.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html


......

Now please peddle your phony baloney elsewhere. :mad:

[Spider Jerusalem]

72. .....

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/the_hannah_poling_case_and_the_rebrandin.php

Mitochondrial disorder. NOT autism. Your lack of acquaintance with the inconvenient facts of the case in question is noted.

[bottomtheweaver]

78. Right,up is down, gotcha.

:hi:

[TZ]

24. You don't understand the science

The vaccine didn't CAUSE the genetic defect that was ALREADY there. It triggered it..and thats a REALLY rare case.
NIH, WHO, CDC and other SCIENTIFIC organziations debunked this. RFK obviously has is a scientific illiterate (as you are by not taking the time to understand the science outside of Rolling stone).
Appointing him to a scientific establishment would be like making Rick Warren the head of the National Science Foundation.
Sorry woos don't belong in science.

[pilsner]

28. So you trust the Bush era scientists? nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. The majority of studies on whether there was in fact a connection between vaccines and autism...

were conducted in Europe. The paper positing a link between vaccines (most specifically, the MMR vaccine) and autism was published in 1998 a British medical journal, the Lancet (the author of the paper, Andrew Wakefield, has been charged with serious professional misconduct in connection with his discredited vaccine/autism paper, by the way). Hardly 'Bush-era scientists'.

But please, by all means, continue to expose your ignorance.

[pilsner]

35. You're right I'm not an expert on this issue

I've heard that Europe doesn't vaccinate as early as in the U.S. becuz Europe has less day care. And, the early vaccinations are problematic becuz of development of babies' guts.

[LeftishBrit]

51. Children get early vaccinations in Europe too.

Here's a link to the UK schedule.

www.immunisation.nhs.uk/Immunisation_schedule/Full_immunisation_schedule

And the French one:

www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/france.html ·

Vaccinations are free and strongly recommended in both countries. They are not mandatory in the UK, but most are in France.

I am also surprised by the idea that 'Europe has less day care'. It depends where one is, I suppose; but day care is quite common in many parts of Europe.

[pilsner]

53. Thanks for the info

and the civil delivery.

Actually, my kids are elementary school age and have gotten all their vaccinations w/o problems.

It sounds like there were problems in the past with vaccinations but no longer which is very good. It's hard to win court cases here so I still think RFK, Jr was right all along.

[Spider Jerusalem]

55. No he wasn't

Google 'Andrew Wakefield' and 'MMR autism'. The MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine was the target of the antivaccinationists. It has never contained thimerosal. And the Andrew Wakefield who originated the theory of a vaccine/autism link is facing charges of serious professional misconduct, including falsifying research data and distorting results.

[Bill McBlueState]

42. even though the administrators may change

I guarantee you that scientists do not all retire or quit their jobs when a new President takes office.

[pilsner]

54. Yeah, but remember Phil Cooney

The oil lobbyist turned administrator who completely changed a scientific paper regarding climate change?

[LeftishBrit]

46. 'Bush era'? - much research on autism and on vaccines has been done outside the USA

Bush, evil as he was, did not influence all science everywhere.

[bottomtheweaver]

58. Yes he was, but that won't stop the ahem, advocates

from lying through their teeth. For instance, it was never about "vaccinations," it was about the mercury used to preserve them, but apparently it's easier to get the noise machine to take out a Kennedy than to take the poisons out of their shitty toxic lethal MANDATORY vaccines.

:mad:

[catnhatnh]

19. Yep...

Because questioning anything does that...

[TZ]

27. ignoring sound science and not even knowing the facts

does that.

[bottomtheweaver]

81. The fact is the HHS had conceded that "mercury-containing vaccines" cause autism.

There's no other way to spin it, sorry.

The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services, the "defendant" in all Vaccine Court cases.

The child's claim against the government -- that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism -- was supposed to be one of three "test cases" for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and "concluded that compensation is appropriate."

The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal).

Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: No response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of "relatedness;" insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and "watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination."

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

[QueenOfCalifornia]

7. Could it be he has a criminal record....

1983
In 1983, he was arrested in a Rapid City South Dakota Airport for heroin possession. A search of his carry-on bag uncovered 183 milligrams of the drug.<3> Upon entering a plea of guilty, Kennedy, then 29 years old, was sentenced to two years probation, periodic tests for drug use, treatment by joining Narcotics Anonymous, and 1,500 hours of community service by Presiding Judge Marshall P. Young.<4>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F_Kennedy_Jr

:eyes:

[democracy1st]

12. yep 25 years is not long enough to change your wicked ways

:sarcasm:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

8. I'm giving it one more week before I rip off the bumper sticker.

[democracy1st]

11. he's a true progressive ! I'm telling you this crap is getting bad

[pnwmom]

15. How do we know that he wasn't the one to turn a job down? n/t

[anonymous171]

31. Why wasn't I considered too?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. For the same reason Jenny McCarthy isn't Surgeon General.

"RFK, Jr was right all along and stands up for principles. "

RFK Jr. is neither right, nor principled.

[pilsner]

33. Back up your assertions about RFK, Jr.

What's he been wrong about?

Why do you think he's not principled?

[Spider Jerusalem]

34. He's been wrong about the link between vaccines and autism for one thing

he continues to push a repeatedly discredited link that repeated independent studies have shown does not exist. Instilling fear of vaccination in the general public by flogging this nonexistent link has a potentially VERY deleterious effect on the collective good by leading to public health crises brought on by morons NOT vaccinating their children. (Do you know WHY infant and early childhood mortality is a fraction of what it was a century ago, by the way?) The fact that he's a crank, who ignores the weight of scientific evidence in favour of discredited and wrongheaded fearmongering, is quite reason enough to remove him from any serious contention for a high-ranking post in government (especially in something like the EPA, where antiscientific nonsense REALLY has no place).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Do you believe that vaccines cause autism?

Before we go on much further, I'd like to know whether or not you're an honest, intelligent person who can be reasoned with.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=198

[pilsner]

37. I'm no expert but explain this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

From HuffPo:

"After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.

The unprecedented concession was filed on November 9, and sealed to protect the plaintiff's identify. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to the case.

The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services, the "defendant" in all Vaccine Court cases....."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. It's already been explained to you above.

Jesus Christ, it's like arguing with a holocaust denier.

[Spider Jerusalem]

39. Did you even READ my first response to that?

The girl had a GENETIC mitochondrial disorder. She is not autistic.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/the_hannah_poling_case_and_the_rebrandin.php

[pilsner]

40. I don't have 20 minutes to read a freaking science journal

thanks for summing up what happened to the girl.

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. Alright, if you have no time to acquaint yourself with a subject, you have NO business discussing it

[pilsner]

43. ok, most ominipotent bohdisattva

Did you read the HuffPo piece? We're reading from opposing info.

I dunno who to believe but I don't want my babies getting the thimeserol when there's alternative vaccines.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. Would you like your babies getting measles?

If you cared about your kids, maybe you should actually look into the subject instead of repeating braindead quackery you found on the internet.

[pilsner]

49. I do care for my kids, omnipotent one

4,900 autism cases pending are most likely a drop in the bucket....

"The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services, the "defendant" in all Vaccine Court cases....."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. And kids are dying from measles...

because their awful parents didn't get them vaccinated over these imaginary fears.

[bottomtheweaver]

Claim: "mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism." SUSTAINED.

The child's claim against the government -- that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism -- was supposed to be one of three "test cases" for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and "concluded that compensation is appropriate."

The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal).

Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: No response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of "relatedness;" insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and "watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination."

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html
.......
Now will you please knock off the nonsense?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

82. Debunked.

If you huff hair spray fumes and end up with autism-like symptoms, that doesn't mean hair spray causes autism.

[bottomtheweaver]

84. Only in your dreams. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. Do you get your kids vaccinated, btw?

Do you have any kids?

[bottomtheweaver]

86. The subject is RFK Jr, whose claims have been proven correct by the US HHS

Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC). Now why do you think there is such a division, anyway? :crazy:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

88. Actually, no.

That's like saying the holocaust has been debunked, and there's no such thing as global warming.

[bottomtheweaver]

90. You were funnier when you were trying to be. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

97. You're funny when you're trying to be serious.

[LeftishBrit]

45. Babies aren't getting thimerasol any more anyway. Not for a long time..

I think it's still in the flu vaccine, but you can get it without thimerasol, and in any case it's usually not given to young babies. Certainly not in the UK; and I don't think in the USA either.

If you're going to worry about children ingesting mercury, there's far more risk from food, especially fish, than vaccines.

[Spider Jerusalem]

47. You're reading from ignorant bullshit.

Apparently you prefer ignorant bullshit. Let me repeat this just ONCE more, since you seem to be incredibly thick: the girl in the case referenced in the bullshit HuffPo article has a GENETIC MITOCHONDRIAL DISORDER. They've done DNA testing. She has the genetic markers for it. She is not autistic.

And there is no thimerosal in childhood vaccines. It has been removed. A decade ago.

[pilsner]

57. Say you are right and RFK was wrong (about vaccines)

Most progresives would still give him major props for documenting election theft, calling for impeachment, opposing Iraq Invasion,and being a tireless steward for Mother Earth.

He knows how to battle with the corporate lawyers and lobbyists shielding the polluters and crooks.

[bottomtheweaver]

59. No, Kennedy was right all along about vaccines. It's the mercury used to preserve them,

not the vaccines, and don't let the catapulters wear you down, because they are everywhere, like germs.

[Spider Jerusalem]

67. There was never thimerosal in the MMR vaccine.

Which, by the way, is the vaccine the anti-science brigade have been blaming autism on.

[bottomtheweaver]

75. Claim: "mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism." SUSTAINED.

How many times are you going to deny what the words day? The girl's claim was that "mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism," and she won, and a team of doctors at HHS signed off on it:

The child's claim against the government -- that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism -- was supposed to be one of three "test cases" for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and "concluded that compensation is appropriate."

The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal).

Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: No response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of "relatedness;" insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and "watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination."

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

In its written concession, the government said the child had a pre-existing mitochondrial disorder that was "aggravated" by her shots, and which ultimately resulted in an ASD diagnosis.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html


......

Why the hell do you think there's now an entire "Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC)" at HHS anyway? :shrug:

[Spider Jerusalem]

76. She's not autistic!

A mitochondrial disorder which leads to encephalopathy is not autism. And courts of law are not qualified to rule on medical questions.

It might if it were true (for one thing, mitochondrial disorders are genetic disorders with maternal inheritance; they are not "triggered" by vaccines), but what really struck me about Stagliano's observation is that we have indeed seen this all before. Remember how at the beginning of this post, I reiterated something I've posted about before multiple times, namely how the the mercury militia flagship Generation Rescue used to say that autism is a "misdiagnosis" for mercury poisoning? It no longer says that now. Indeed, if you look at the Generation Rescue site now, what you will see is this:

We believe these neurological disorders ("NDs") are environmental illnesses caused by an overload of heavy metals, live viruses, and bacteria. Proper treatment of our children, known as "biomedical intervention", is leading to recovery for thousands.

Autism isn't a "misdiagnosis for mercury poisoning" anymore, it would appear. It's been rebranded again. First, we see the zealots back away from the claim that "it's the mercury, stupid" when scientific evidence failing to find a link between mercury in vaccines becomes overwhelming. Instead, we now see an attempt to link all sorts of "toxins" to vaccines. Now, with the revelation that the government settled a case where vaccines may have exacerbated an underlying mitochondrial disorder and led to an encephalopathy with some features of regressive autism, antivaccinationists now think they have a new "brand" for autism. No longer is it a "misdiagnosis for mercury poisoning." Now it's a "misdiagnosis for mitochondrial disorders." However, as has been explained on Steve Novella's blog and elsewhere, the government settlement in this case says nothing about any but possibly a very, very few children, and even about them it does not say that vaccines do more harm than good. Moreover, the claim isn't even a winner as far as obtaining compensation goes, given how unusual Hannah's case is. Indeed, this "rebranding" of autism as a "mitochondrial disorder" drives home that the idea that vaccines cause autism is the incredible shrinking hypothesis. It's gone from concrete claims three years ago that mercury or vaccines cause nearly all cases of autism to a lot of speculation based on one highly atypical case, a far cry from previous incriminations against vaccines as the cause of an "autism tsunami." We shouldn't forget that. It's gone from a claim of causation due to vaccines for nearly all autistic children to tortured interpretations of a single case of a rare mitochondrial disorder. Even if mitochondrial disorders are not an epiphenomenon in autism but rather a true cause, of some forms, it is unlikely that they would account for more than a very small number of cases every year, too few to contribute much to the overall total. It is not The Cause of autism. We shouldn't forget that, either. The goalposts have been moved, and they continue to move, because it is all about the vaccines.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/the_hannah_poling_case_and_the_rebrandin.php

[bottomtheweaver]

77. Wrong. Neurological diagnosis: "autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development."

Quote:

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

Now will you please take your catapult and go play elsewhere?

[Spider Jerusalem]

92. Regressive encepalopathy triggered by adverse reaction to vaccine...

DUE to her rare genetic disorder. You somehow miss that part.

Hanna regressed after the last round of vaccinations and continued to have ear infections and was ultimately seen by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a pediatric neurologist, who diagnosed her as having: "encephalopathy progressed to persistent loss of previously acquired language, eye contact, and relatedness" or "regressive encephalopathy with features consistent with an autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." He also noticed features consistent with a mitochondrial disease and had Hannah undergo a neurogenetics evaluation. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with a disorder of her mitochondria due to a point mutation in the gene for the 16S ribosomal RNA (T2387C). We also know that Dr. Poling did something that strikes me as highly dubious from an ethical standpoint by authoring a case report with Dr. Zimmerman about his own daughter. Be that as it may, the conclusion of the Special Masters was:

Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation, Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts of this case, as presented by the petition, medical records, and affidavits. After a thorough review, DVIC has concluded that compensation is appropriate in this case.

In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42 U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).

So what does this mean? First, one thing that it doesn't mean, contrary to all the P.R. over the last few days, is that the government has conceded that vaccines cause autism. Mitochondrial disorders of the sort suffered by Hannah are genetic in nature and rare, an estimated 5.7 individuals per 100,000 worldwide, and, as described well in this New Scientist article, the subset of these disorders that cause autism-like symptoms is even more rare. It is also known that children with mitochondrial disorders are prone to develop an encephalopathy in response to stress or fever that can cause them to regress. The source of this stress is often an infection, such as a cold or normal childhood illness, that results in a fever. The reason is that the mitochondria are the "batteries" or energy sources of the cell, and mitochondrial diseases can lead a child to be "energy challenged," so to speak. Because neurons have such a high constant resting energy requirement, stressors like fever can in these children result depletion of cellular energy. Moroever, mutations in the same gene that Hannah had a mutation in are incredibly rare. According to Salvatore DiMauro, an researcher who studies mitochondrial diseases, only four other cases are known. It is also important to see what is really meant about this diagnosis. Kevin Leitch, a prominent autism blogger, did a quick and dirty comparison of the actual DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for ASDs and found that only three of the behaviors described in the ruling appeared to match up with criteria for ASDs (poor eye contact, poor relatedness, and fixating on fluorescent lights during the examination). Of course, it's entirely possible that there were other aspects fo this diagnosis that have yet to be reported, but, even so, what was really diagnosed was a regressive encephalopathy that had some features of ASD. It may have been exacerbated by the fever that occurred in the wake of the series of vaccines described; it may have been exacerbated by the girl's recurrent bouts of otitis media. Either way, the government decided that the temporal course of vaccination and regression was close enough that under the law "compensation is justified."

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/03/the_hannah_poling_case_and_the_rebrandin.php

[bottomtheweaver]

93. Um, the Justice Department LOST, but keep trying. n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

94. Once again, since you seem to be amazingly fucking stupid:

So what does this mean? First, one thing that it doesn't mean, contrary to all the P.R. over the last few days, is that the government has conceded that vaccines cause autism. Mitochondrial disorders of the sort suffered by Hannah are genetic in nature and rare, an estimated 5.7 individuals per 100,000 worldwide, and, as described well in this New Scientist article, the subset of these disorders that cause autism-like symptoms is even more rare. It is also known that children with mitochondrial disorders are prone to develop an encephalopathy in response to stress or fever that can cause them to regress.

This mitochondrial disorder is genetic in nature. It is not autism despite having autistic-like traits.

[bottomtheweaver]

95. See above. "The government's concession

seems to raise more questions than it answers," but the fact remains that they lost. But keep on pretending they didn't. Say it: it isn't so! There. Feel better? Who am I to take bread off your table anyway?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

96. Nobody's arguing that the government lost.

But the case wasn't about whether or not vaccines cause autism.

[Spider Jerusalem]

98. I'm sorry, but an article by a well-known antivaccine crank is not a credible source of anything.

And your apparent inability to understand the basic facts of the case you're trumpeting as some 'loss' just show you up as a bleating fool. Presented with various inconvenient facts, your only real response is 'eh, so what? They still lost!' Which is really no response at all.

[bottomtheweaver]

99. LOL. Here, you need one:

In fact you both do:




:hi:

[bottomtheweaver]

60. Toxic sludge is GOOD for you!

We need more clean coal and adulterated vaccines, not less.

[Selatius]

61. RFK Jr. was also a former cocaine addict. That alone would disqualify him.

It's the political game of "gotcha!" The only difference is he has a criminal record as a result of his former drug habit.

[pilsner]

62. Good God---he's changed his life for 20 some years

Obama used coke too. At least, RFK, Jr. successfully worked through things unlike chimpie.

How would you deal with losing your father and uncle to Nixonian mobsters?

[Selatius]

64. All true, but again, they play "gotcha!" in politics. You saw what they did with Bill Clinton.

They would not hesitate to drag him through the mud over not having a clean record.

[pilsner]

65. Uh, the Repubs look to run David Vitter again n/t

[Selatius]

66. Yeah, that's because they have double-standards. nt

[NYCGirl]

80. RFK Jr was busted for HEROIN possession, not coke. NT

[Freddie Stubbs]

69. There is no proof that he ever used cocaine

[Freddie Stubbs]

68. How do you know he wasn't offered a position and declined?

:shrug:

[pilsner]

73. once again, noblese oblige

the Kennedy's live by it. If the prez had called, he'd be serving.

[Freddie Stubbs]

102. Was he living by it when he was a heroin addict?

If he is so interested in public service, why has he never run for office?

[Ganja Ninja]

74. Exactly!

Not everybody wants to have their life put under a microscope for a comparatively low paying government job.

[bottomtheweaver]

83. HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC): "mercury-containing vaccines" cause autism.

Just so we're clear on that oh-so-important scientific point:

The claim, one of 4,900 autism cases currently pending in Federal "Vaccine Court," was conceded by US Assistant Attorney General Peter Keisler and other Justice Department officials, on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services, the "defendant" in all Vaccine Court cases.

The child's claim against the government -- that mercury-containing vaccines were the cause of her autism -- was supposed to be one of three "test cases" for the thimerosal-autism theory currently under consideration by a three-member panel of Special Masters, the presiding justices in Federal Claims Court.

Keisler wrote that medical personnel at the HHS Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation (DVIC) had reviewed the case and "concluded that compensation is appropriate."

The doctors conceded that the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, when she received vaccinations against nine different diseases all at once (two contained thimerosal).

Days later, the girl began spiraling downward into a cascade of illnesses and setbacks that, within months, presented as symptoms of autism, including: No response to verbal direction; loss of language skills; no eye contact; loss of "relatedness;" insomnia; incessant screaming; arching; and "watching the florescent lights repeatedly during examination."

Seven months after vaccination, the patient was diagnosed by Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a leading neurologist at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic, with "regressive encephalopathy (brain disease) with features consistent with autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." The girl also met the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) official criteria for autism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. "features consistent with autism spectrum disorder."

Not the same thing as autism.

Your posts contain features consistent with intellecual dishonesty.

[bottomtheweaver]

89. I'm embarrassed for you.

Please stop.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

91. I'm not the one making a fool of myself.

What's next, bottomtheweaver?

Mini-nukes brought down the WTC, and the loch ness monster proves it?

[WriteDown]

101. Just a quick note....

No matter how many times you copy and paste this, it does not make it true. Autism rates have seen a steep rise in Japan and they have stopped using mercury in their vaccines. Explain that one.

Also, on a side note. I imagine that RFK's nimby stance does not help him.

http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/01/12/capecod/

edited for clarification.