Let's discuss "sports welfare" and the mega salaries of athletes and owners

[theHandpuppet]

I know this seems to be a largely verboten topic among the media but while we're talking about the dire shape of the economy, millions losing homes and jobs, and the corporate leeches of Wall St., what about the mind-boggling salaries of today's athletes and owners? I've been an avid follower of many sports all my life but to be honest, in today's economic climate it really gets my goat to see an athlete laugh off being offered 25 million for a single season to play a freaking ball game. Then we have owners who hold entire communities and their taxpayers hostage unless they receive incredible tax breaks -- even insisting in some cases that taxpayers foot the bill for their new stadiums!

I guess this issue is just getting to me when I see so many folks struggling while those at the top of the income bracket seem so disconnected from it all. Why should a teacher make 35 grand and a ball player 35 million? Man, I think as a society we've got some screwed up priorities.

[Captain Hilts]

1. That's what the market will tolerate. Let's talk about taxpayer-funded stadiums people vote against

and cities build anyway. Like Philly and Pittsburgh.

Especially football stadiums, which are a total waste of money because they barely get used. There's a solid, economic, reason football teams always played in baseball stadiums.

[theHandpuppet]

3. I didn't know that

...about the citizens voting against funding the new stadiums. How did the city govts manage to maneuver around that?

[raccoon]

8. I second that emotion. I'd like to hear about that. nt

[Captain Hilts]

13. Yes. nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

7. The problem is that the voters are rarely outraged enough to vote out politicians who

vote for funding these stadiums.

[Cleita]

27. Yes, this is where I draw the line, building stadiums with taxpayer money

when schools are run down and need funding in the same communities. Not a sports fan here so the industry will never see a red nickel from me, but if that's where others want to spend their recreation money it's their perogative, however, do not put my tax money into sports structures when we need to take care of social problems first.

[Captain Hilts]

34. DC should have put $30m into RFK. Instead, bazillions into the new BB stadium. nt

[NightWatcher]

2. Does anyone ever say that Deniro shouldn't be able to make 25 mil a movie?

end tax $ going to teams but if a city makes money off of a sports team it's only fair to cut them a tax break to build a stadium. They give away land to companies to build factories and stores in exchange for sales tax later on.

[sandnsea]

5. Well I do

And think the cost of rock concerts is outrageous too, and totally out of line to what they were 30 years ago. As long as the top 25% are rolling in it, the "economy" is good. That's the problem.

[Captain Hilts]

23. I stopped going to concerts because of prices and fees by ticketron/ticketmaster. nt

[Captain Hilts]

11. Exactly. That's the market. nt

[theHandpuppet]

12. No one probably does complain about those salaries...

... though I think they're also outrageous. But then, going to the movies or to a game has become so expensive because of these mind-boggling salaries I only go the flicks maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I actually went to a game. It's just too expensive.

[NightWatcher]

33. I dont go to movies (I rent from Redbox for $1) but I'd dont begrudge anyone for making it

I try to make it to a few minor league baseball games around here (20$= ticket, dog, and numerous beers). 20$ doesnt get you in the parking lot at the majors.

People make money because there is still a market for what they have to offer.

[Dukkha]

38. Deniro, no

Tom Cruise, Will Ferrell, Jim Carrey...hell yes!

[AndyA]

4. This has always chapped me.

A university can pay a coach a ton of money, while professors and others on the educational end suffer. What is the emphasis? Sports or an education? If you follow the money, it's sports.

Could this be why so many people in top jobs today seem unqualified for those positions? Could the current financial sector issues be somehow related to the lack of education of the people making decisions for their companies? Obviously, greed has a role as well, but anyone who's really smart enough to run one of these big companies should have been able to determine that the risk was not worth it in the long run.

Many predicted this was coming. Shouldn't the people in charge have been smart enough to see it as well? And could a better education have provided them with the knowledge to make changes before it was too late?

I guess we'll never know, and I too have a hard time with sports celebrities and their big money and lack of concern for others. The news is full of stories that show they don't care about others.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

15. Its emphasis is profit.

And sports tend to bring in more bucks than quality education these days.

[Bill McBlueState]

26. I wonder if that's always true

It may be that some of the lower-level D-I schools make more money from overhead on federal research grants than they do from football and basketball.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

31. Perhaps, but sports also fund academics.

At a lot of the big name schools sports serves as an engine to pump money back into academics, so they can usually keep a decent quality of education as well as producing excellent sports teams. I remember that after my alma mater's basketball team started doing quite well the school was able to establish a special chair and attract scholars from Cambridge and Oxford for a semester or a year at a time. That makes it even harder for fourth and fifth tier schools to compete for grants.

[Jokerman]

6. We pay 2% of every restaurant, bar and hotel tab to the Colts.

Since that went into effect I can name over a dozen restaurants in this area that have closed. The general economy has been the main problem but I'm sure I'm not the only one who got tired of paying 9% in sales tax on every tab.

Now the "public / private" criminals who manage the new arenas and their many, many corporate sky boxes have a $41 million shortage so they are eliminating many of the minimum wage jobs these boondoggles were supposed to create.

Guess who'll be next in line for a bailout.

[Captain Hilts]

10. Modell really looted Maryland. Ravens get parking receipts, etc. nt

[MiniMe]

9. They aren't trying to get bailout money from the government.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

16. Yet.

[Romulox]

19. Almost every stadium is built with taxpayer dollars.

And the NFL uses the public university system as a farm league.

[MiniMe]

30. Yes, but that is the community's decision

I agree it needs to be looked at, the teams blackmail cities for new stadiums. "We're going to move unless you give us a new stadium." Cities have to stop giving them everything they want. Again, that is local, not the federal government.

[pretty]

14. "I've been an avid follower of many sports all my life"

So you don't believe that people who have entertained you "all your life" should be paid?

[theHandpuppet]

17. Sure

I just don't think they deserve 40,000 a swing.

[flvegan]

18. So don't but tickets or gear.

The only way to send a message is to cut them off. Let me know how that works for you.

Yeah, they make an obscene amount of money. So does Tom Hanks. So did Jerry Seinfeld. So does Louis Hamilton and Wayne Rooney. Supply and demand.

[joeunderdog]

40. You--and everyone else--are still paying these salaries.

When you buy deoderant, Pepsi, aspirin or any other product advertised during a sporting event, the price of the product goes up so that the athletes can cash in.

It's not fair.

[Missy Vixen]

20. I'll take your offer

I am a big, big football fan, so I can speak more authoritatively on the NFL than any other pro sport.

Pro athletes make a fortune for the ownership of their teams and the league who organizes their games. While I do not agree that someone like Pay-Rod (Alex Rodriguez, now of the Yankees, for anyone who doesn't live in Seattle,) should get paid more than subway fare, there are economic realities here. While pro athlete salaries are astronomical, when you stop to think that the average NFL team is appraised at over a billion dollars, it becomes a bit more understandable why these guys won't step onto a field for less than ten million a year or so.

People are willing to pay to see these guys do their thing. A lot. Also, athletes have a limited shelf life. It's possible to have a ten-year career in major league baseball or the NBA. The average NFL career is four years. Plus, guys from the NFL often have health problems after they leave pro football. They need to be smart about their money, because it needs to last them a long time.

The NFL is now staring down the barrel of a new collective bargaining agreement; the economic downturn couldn't have come at a better time for them. Plus, NFL teams are also the canary in the coal mine re: season ticket renewals. Several NFL team front office personnel and league personnel have been through at least one layoff already. It'll be interesting to see if the financial reality currently hitting the NFL translates into less tickets and merchandise sold in the NBA and MLB this season.

Why don't we pay teachers as much as pro athletes? People don't value their services as much. Yes, this is a sad commentary on our society. I would love to see teachers start at $100,000 per year. They are in charge of shaping the minds of what we claim is our most precious commodity as a society, children. I'm not sure how to get this accomplished. One thing's for sure, though: I have to believe that we'll have a much better chance of having a national dialogue on the value of teachers in our society with the Obama administration than we ever would with McCain, or any other Republican.

[Bill McBlueState]

21. you raise some valid points

But if 75,000 people shelled out $100 every week to watch me do *my* job, I'd expect to make big bucks as well.

[endarkenment]

22. Let's discuss a progressive income tax that was actually progressive

and included capital gains as ordinary income.

[melm00se]

24. those salaries

won't hold when people stop going to games and advertisers can't afford to pay for spots during the games.

[lukasahero]

25. "I think as a society we've got some screwed up priorities."

That is what it all comes down to - what do we, as a society, value?

I agree with you - teachers, firemen, nurses and EMTs should be the highest paid professions. As you can see from the responses here, they never will be. Our priorities are screwed up.

[BlooInBloo]

28. More anti-labor babble. Funny how it's only in the case of sports that DUers are like this...

And funny how the billionaire owners seem to never get mentioned in this.

Only the labor - whose effort is plain, and cannot be doubted - who make anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions ever get bitched at for making money from their unionized work.

Golly, I wonder what on earth could be the difference between the billionaire owners, and the millionaire laborers?

[endarkenment]

32. The average NFL career is three years at 1M/yr.

Those are three very good years monetarily, but after that you are done, frequently you are quite damaged, and as all you have ever done is play football, you have very limited career prospects.

yeah, lets go after those guys.

[theHandpuppet]

36. Did you even read my OP?

Which specifically pointed a finger at OWNERS as well as players? The owners are also metioned in the thread title. And I'm not the only one in this thread who has talked about the owners and their greedy blackmailing of communities and their tax breaks.

READ before popping off, why don't you.

[KamaAina]

39. Most of the owners, at least in the NFL, are dyed-in-the-wool repukes

the sole exceptions that I can think of are Bob Kraft of the Patriots, and, of course, the Steelers' Rooney family, who went out of their way to thank President Obama after their Super Bowl victory Sunday.

And who knows more about bilking the taxpayers out of brazillions of dollars than dyed-in-the-wool repukes? :shrug:

edit: Glad I remembered the Rooneys, owners of the six-time Super Bowl champs, before the sizable Stillers contingent hereabouts jupmed down my throat!!! :dunce:

[ogneopasno]

29. Oh, that crappy, crappy collective bargaining! I just hate it when unions get high wages for their

members!

[Xithras]

35. I used to oppose it until I had a few things pointed out to me.

The actual average salary for an NFL player is $770,000 a year. A few "stars" make a lot more than that, but your average NFL athlete makes well under a million a year. While that's still a lot of money, there's another thing that needs to be factored in. The average player won't make it more than four seasons before washing out. A 23 year old linebacker getting drafted at $770,000 a year will be kicked from the team by the time he's 27 years old and has earned just over $3 million dollars. Assuming that the NFL was his primary career choice, he will need to make that $3 million last for 38 years until he retires using SSI at age 65. That's about $78,000 a year, not factoring in taxes or anything else. Not a bad wage, but nothing spectacular by modern standards. An accountant in San Francisco makes more than that.

[theHandpuppet]

37. Wow, like he/she might have to actually find a job...

... in order to make a living after the age of 30? How unfair!!

:eyes:

[endarkenment]

41. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt

but you have displayed your true colors for all to see.

[Captain Hilts]

43. Yes! Considering the time invested and the risks involved, NFL players are UNDERpaid. nt

[cobalt1999]

42. There are differences between a teacher and a ball player though.

1) The money each profession brings in. School districts don't bring in millions of dollar per teacher.

2) There are thousands of people who can be trained to do what an individual teacher does, but how many people can physically do what a star ball player does? They are stars because there aren't many people who can perform to their level.

3) Owners of teams do get tax breaks because their product indirectly generates a lot of revenue and other taxes within the community. If a community doesn't like it, they don't have to vote in those breaks.

[MadHound]

44. I really have no problem with athletes' salaries

Given that they are trashing their bodies, permanently, over a short period of time, for our edification and entertainment.

Besides, most athletes don't make that much, certainly not millions. It's more like hundreds of thousands for a few years and then they're kicked to the curb and left to fend for themselves.