Octuplets mom getting outrage rather than gifts

[LynneSin]

Good! We need to stop rewarding people for stuff like this.

excerpts from articles)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29002731/

Octuplets mom getting outrage rather than gifts

LOS ANGELES - Where is the unlimited supply of diapers, formula and baby wipes? The free van? The brand-new house?

Women who give birth to six, seven or eight babies are often showered with dazzling gifts from big corporations, local businesses and strangers. But that is not happening with the Southern California mother who delivered octuplets last week.

The news that she is a single mother with six other children — and that all 14 were conceived by having embryos implanted — seems to have turned off many people, and companies are not exactly rushing to get publicity by piling on the freebies.

Nadya Suleman, 33, has been lambasted by talk-show hosts, fertility experts, even her own mother, who has her hands full taking care of Suleman’s other children, ages 2 to 7.

A veteran Hollywood publicist said Suleman’s handlers have their work cut out for them in trying to win public sympathy for her.

“I think it’s a calamity,” said publicist David Brokaw, who has handled crises for celebrities. “I don’t see, the way this is shaped, how you can say much about it in terms of something favorable.”

Makers of diapers, formula and other products would probably want to steer clear of her, Brokaw said. He suggested she lie low for now and concentrate on crafting an image as a responsible parent.

[we can do it]

1. The Idiot Doctor Needs To Be Named

What a jerk

[LynneSin]

14. A proper doctor would have vetted this woman...

and found that she has some mental issues going on. Clearly this woman is obsessed with being pregnant. Any reputable fertility specialist would have told her to 'let nature take it's course' ESPECIALLY if she didn't have the money to pay for the treatment (and already had 6 kids to boot)

[Donnachaidh]

49. personally, I think she's s sociopath on her way to a psychology degree

Seriously.

Six little kids at home, and she somehow manages to get IVF AGAIN? I'd love to see the previous medical records - just to verify if she was implanted with multiples and had some removed on advisement from the doctor. Two of the six are twins, so multiples happened in that pregnancy -- but what about the others?

This whole deal stinks of greed and *teh crazy*.

[MindMatter]

84. A proper doctor would not be in the business of manufacturing babies

[defendandprotect]

147. Doesn't she work for a fertility clinic????

[Lady Effingbroke]

165. 'vetted' as in spayed. n/m

[Rockholm]

170. LOL.

[Fla Dem]

167. Didn't need to vet her. He was the same Doc that did her previous implants. Knew she had 6 kids

and unmarried.

[wordpix]

190. some doctors will do anything for a buck, apparently. Does she have health insurance?

Whether yes or no, our premiums will go up due to this asswipe.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

204. So who is he?

[wordpix]

211. we don't know the dr. is a "he," but I envision a male dr., too

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

217. I actually read here it was a woman, I think they were mistaking...

the IVF doc for one of the OB's that helped with the delivery and made a public statement.

David

[roguevalley]

64. agreed. these babies are innocent and need help. I hope they get

what they need and not become some idiot ticket to the golden calf for people. poor babies. they are innocent.

[INDIA]

98. What ever happened to "her body, her choice"????

Not that I don't think the woman is a moron...

Some of you are pretty selective about when a woman has a right to choose.

[RedCappedBandit]

104. Of course she has the right to choose

That doesn't mean it's a good idea to have twice the number of children you are actually capable of caring for responsibly.

[uppityperson]

115. Unethical dr to transfer that many embryos.

She can chose to have many kids, but any dr that transfers that many embryos is unethical since chances of them surviving is minimal.

[northernlights]

142. if I remember correctly

they normally transfer multiple embryos in order to ensure that at least 1 survives. That is why in vitro fertilization often results in multiple births. Just usually twins, though. Extremely rare for all embryos to make it.

[defendandprotect]

148. I think they're claiming that her body energy caused splitting/multiplying of embryos????

[LisaL]

117. Do you seriously think "choice" means anything goes, and

everybody else has to approve? Get a clue. People choose to do all kinds of things, doesn't mean I have to support or approve of all the choices out there.

[INDIA]

128. How about the often heard "what a woman chooses to do with

her body is a private matter, between her and her doctor."

People on this thread are calling for the Dr. to be exposed, or lose his license, etc.

Would you feel the same way if a Dr. performed numerous abortions on the same patient?

[LisaL]

134. Her doctor?

I think her doctor should be investigated to see how many embryos were implanted into this woman, and whether it corresponds to the appropriate standard of care.
None of it has anything to do with a doctor performing multiple abortions on the same patient.

[northernlights]

141. your right to choose to give birth ends

when you expect everybody else in the world to foot the bill and raise your children for you.

If she so loves little babies, why doesn't she foster parent? Or volunteer in the children's ward of a hospital? Or surround herself with babies in some other way that doesn't require that other people pay for 1. fertility treatments 2. childbirth 3. diapers 4. formula 5. everything else that goes with raising a baby.

[blurp]

155. Are you saying her family shouldn't be helped? I thought we just had election about that.

your right to choose to give birth ends when you expect everybody else in the world to foot the bill and raise your children for you.

I know you're not a conservative, but this sounds very much like a conservative complaint.

Didn't we just have an election that determined that communities SHOULD help families?

Think about your social responsibility to this woman. Sure, she needs all kinds of help (including mental), but collectively it's been decided that she deserves it like everyone else.

[northernlights]

182. I'm saying it was phenomenally irresponsible of the doctor

who performed the in vitro fertilization. And probably unethical too.

He knew she is single. He knew she has 6 kids at home. He should have realized she is sick -- it's not rocket science. Hell, a bartender can go to jail for giving drinks to someone who is drunk.

Do I think the babies should be abandoned now the the nutcase has had them? Of course not. BUT THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO HAPPEN IN THE 1ST PLACE.

The doctor is partly responsible and should be held so. He should lose his license and be heavily fined. Hell, let him pay the team of 52 doctors, nurses, etc. it took to deliver them.

The woman is obviously nuts. She is also incapable of taking care of them, either financially or as a caregiver. Her mother is already angry, stuck taking care of the 1st 6.

They probably should all be taken away from her and adopted out to normal people who would love to have 1 or 2 and can't.

[jmg257]

146. Nothing...HER choice - HER responsiblity. Why have HER hand out? nt

[blurp]

156. By that logic the government shouldn't do anything for the people.

More and more people have been avoiding saving for retirement since the creation of social security -- does that mean they don't deserve social security benefits?

And more near the object of the thread, at what age does the desire to have a baby become a choice? Would you deny help to a 14 year old girl that wanted to have a baby?

People make all sorts of bad decisions. Isn't that why we have a government safety net?

[jmg257]

157. NO. The government isn't here to make up for every stupid decision the people make.

The govt is here to better secure the rights of the people, to ensure our security, ensure justice, promote the general welfare, etc. etc., all of course to ensure the people are free to pursue happiness - not to pay for it with other people's money.

People have to take some responsibility for themselves. Maybe use a little brains once in awhile.

Generally I would deny "free" help for just about any person who purposely decides to have a child they know they can not afford. Such a person is being extremely selfish if they are planning to knowingly rely on others to pay for their own enjoyment. They do know what causes pregnancy these days - and plenty of ways to prevent it. Being stupid and irresponsible shouldn't automatically entitle you to government assistance via other people's money. THAT is what choice is all about, or should be. We have however given the govt some responsibility to help out people who do make stupid choices, so...


We pay into SS, we are certainly entitled to get it back. We gave part of the responsibility for that purpose to the govt. Besides that though, if people didn't want to take on the responsibility of planning for THEIR OWN retirement - that is certainly another stupid decision.

[nadinbrzezinski]

163. Her body, her choice usually does not include unethical medical practice

the doctor should have said no

I am almost willing to bet other doctors said NO, until she found one that said ok

[spotbird]

187. She has the right to do this

but her enablers are criminals.

[wordpix]

212. but we taxpayers don't have the right to say we refuse to support this insanity

if, for instance, she goes on welfare, school lunch programs, food stamps, etc. Not that I want her poor kids to go without, but someone should have quashed this stupidity BEFORE implanting her with 8 embryos.

[wordpix]

191. Whatever happened to common sense and saving planet Earth?

Let's just keep overpopulating and pushing more endangered species to extinction. Yeah, that's a good answer. :sarcasm:

[Hardrada]

2. She jumped the baby shark!

[Bucky]

107. Actually, if she'd had a baby shark instead, she might still have a TV deal.

Of course that would have involved her actually getting jumped by a shark. How weird would that be?
She'd probably end up on Discovery instead of the TLC network.

[Hardrada]

113. She belongs on Discovery anyway!

[BlooInBloo]

3. It's funny because she's *surprised* by this outcome.

[Blue_Tires]

15. that's one more for the growing mountain of evidence that she is mentally ill

especially in light of her 'pregnancy obsession' as some family members have called it...either she loves too much the adulation others in the past have given her for giving birth, or on a darker note, she doesn't love the kids as much once they grow past a certain point

[BlooInBloo]

86. I'm not one of those who is inclined to call jackass choices "mentally ill"...

I refuse to so easily provide the moral refuge that "illness" offers.

[Kahuna]

160. I think you hit it. She loves "babies." Once they're past that age, it's time

to replace them.

[NavyDavy]

4. but god help her if she chose to have any of them aborted.....the

freeks(freeps) would be attacking her on that......I say to her stay strong and I hope they all grow up happy and healthy, its hard to raise kids on your own but my family is praying for her!!!

[Winterblues]

9. Why

She had the embryos Implanted. She deliberately chose to have these babies. She didn't have sex to get them. I don't understand your comments about abortion in this case.

[NavyDavy]

16. because they are attacking her for having the babies, however they

are against abortion.....she chose to have them implanted but did not expect then all to take which is very rare....I am just saying she was damned if she does and damned if she didn't

[uppityperson]

47. You seem to think we care what freepers attack someone for.

Why?

[Raineyb]

21. Because when there's a large number of embryos implanted and more than anticipated actually take

doctors would perform a selective reduction so that there's a reasonable number of fetuses in the womb. For whatever reason this woman chose not to have this procedure done.

Regards

[liberalhistorian]

105. I think he/she is referring to her refusal to undergo

"selective reduction", which is the common procedure in IVF cases if more than three embryos "take." She was strongly counseled to have it and refused.

[bunnies]

13. No actually, they wouldnt be.

If she hadnt had a litter - none of us would have ever heard of her. But that would have defeated the point of her stunt, now wouldnt it.

[NavyDavy]

23. so its a stunt? was all the other people who had multiples stunts

also.....some of you are sounding like the freeperville creeps I just fought with over on FR...may god bless and watch over her and her children, especially with people out there like some I argued with.

[bunnies]

31. Of course its a stunt.

She did it for the free stuff she thought she'd get. Why would anyone in their right mind - who cant even support the 6 kids she already has - intentionally have EIGHT more?!

And now what happens if she doesnt get what she wants? I'll tell you. 16 kids living in poverty. 16 kids on the Govt's dime. This is the single most irresponsible act of reproduction I've ever heard of. The woman is sick.

[LynneSin]

39. Yes it is a stunt

Fertility doctors have guidelines say they should do their best to ensure the delivery of one healthy baby. These doctors aren't even suppose to plant more than 2-3 embryos at any given time.

You don't just put 5-6 extra eggs in a uterus for 'shits & giggles'. This is a publicity stunt

[Donnachaidh]

52. it IS a Stunt

Tell me, do you know any other mothers of multiples that hire PR firms within a week of the birth?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

54. It was a stunt

I see that you enjoy posting on FR, also.

[uppityperson]

57. And enjoys posting here that cares about what FR thinks also.

odd

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

68. I, for one, always base my opinions on what Free Republic will think

:rofl:

[LynneSin]

82. I thought there was something funny about you

:hide:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

112. I mean, I don't drive a SUV anymore, so I have to keep up my Freeper creds somehow

[liberalhistorian]

106. Oh, give me a break, of course it was a stunt.

She already had six children under seven years old, which were also implanted. The year before this birth, she'd filed bankruptcy and had to abandon a home and she has no husband or partner. She is living with her parents and the other children in a one-room shack, literally a shack, to which eight new innocent babies will now be added to the mix. That is sick and nuts and should never have been allowed by the fertility "doctor". She has blatantly said that she expects the public to care for her children and get "free stuff" from companies and people, she expected that from the beginning, and is angry that that isn't the case. Selfish, crazy bitch.

[uppityperson]

17. Better to have 8 needing intensive care for a long time than have narrowed it down to a couple

who would have been older and larger and healthier when they were born. Indeed, every sperm and every egg and every embryo is sacred. Maybe the doctor should have made more and transferred more so she could have had even more!!! Indeed, why limit yourself to 1 or 2 who would be healthy by murdering a couple embryos when you can have a whole litter who need massive amounts of care to survive and may well end up with health issues forever?

every sperm is sacred...

I am sure she is happy that your family will contribute time and money to helping her raise these 14 kids on her own. You are very special.

[NavyDavy]

27. whatever.....if I had the money I would be sending as much as I

could....and your argument is neither here nor there, the children are born so why attack her? or are you so hate filled,you are blinded from human compassion

[uppityperson]

35. I am praying she gets the mental health care she needs.

I think she was very foolish and the doc unethical and merely praying for her to give her support is merely words. You brought up "abortion" and somehow are concerned about what freepers are saying about her. Odd.

[Sydnie]

45. If she gets what she wants (by way of attention and corporate welfare and all you can afford to send

too) how many more will follow in her crazy footsteps that AREN'T already born?

You can't reward this behavior lest you see more of it.

You have enough money and time to donate to all the morans that do this to themselves and their (as yet) unborn brood?

[Donnachaidh]

55. I'm sure the Mom is being *compassionate* while she hires agents

and fields those multimillion dollar contracts she worked so HARD to get. I wonder how much it costs these days to hire EIGHT nannies? You KNOW she's not going to have the time, what with planning out the reality show based on her "efforts". :sarcasm:

[Kolesar]

40. "The mill's closed--We are going to have to sell the lot of you for medical experiments"

Hindus, Daoists, Mormans, spill theirs just "anywhere"

[sister taoist]

154. Yeah, the only two choices are aborting and having octuplets...

:yoiks:

[YOY]

5. Apparently some conservatives are "outraged" at this one as well.

Perhaps it's just one of those fabled "non-partisan" things where it's just painfully obvious that the woman was looking for a free ride?

Poor kids at any rate. Both the ones she had already and the new ones.

[get the red out]

61. Doesn't look "Christian" enough for them

If this were an extremist Christian couple with all these kids the media and conservatives would destroy anyone who spoke out against this. They wouldn't allow the term "health of the mother" to be stated without calling anyone who brought it up a baby-killer.

Of course, since she isn't white, married, and has a "foreign" name, let the burning at the stake begin.

I don't agree with science creating this situation, but there would be a different view if the mother were a different person, and there is something wrong with that as well.

[YOY]

69. You have a valid point.

n.t.

[rd_kent]

175. The right-winger xtians are going nuts

because she took away their own arguments. If she aborted any of them, they would have labeled her a baby killer. If she had 8 babies from different fathers, they would label her as a whore. But since she had 8 kids without having sex and didnt abort any of them, they dont know what to be angry about, so they are just plain angry!

[kestrel91316]

6. I think she's a golddigger, and obsessed with infants and childbearing.

She probably ignores her older kids. When the octuplets are older, I fully expect her to go for another litter.

Pronatalism run amock.

[NavyDavy]

11. I hope your kidding, if you are its going over my head. If not

shame on you...

[uppityperson]

29. No, shame on her and shame on the doc who transferred so many

Shame on her for "just loving kids" and not being able to take care of the 6 she already had. Shame on the doc for transferring so many to a mentally ill woman. That was VERY unethical to do.

Again, thank you for what you are doing to help her financially and emotionally and for helping by taking her to parenting classes and finding someone to watch the kids while she does that. You are doing all that, besides praying for her, right?

[LynneSin]

34. If the woman loved kids that much she should have become a teacher or own a daycare

NOT go out and have 8 more kids.

It sounds like this woman has some mental challenges and she found an unscrupulous doctor willing to help her with her cause.

[uppityperson]

41. Indeed. I hope CPS is watching her, getting her the mental health care she needs & kids the

help they need also.

[NavyDavy]

44. just because of your smartass comments I had my wife goto the

local sams club and get a 500 dollar gift card to send to the publicist for her.....so yes I am doing more, I won't be going on my week long fishing trip but she will have some support from me. how about you?

[uppityperson]

51. Good for you. I am contacting CPS to make sure the kids get the help they need

Living with a mentally ill mother who is unable to care for them isn't good. And I am contacting President Obama asking him to make mental health care more accessible and affordable as that is a big thing.

As far as getting a gift card to send to the publicist, that was fast. Your wife must drive fast. And you did it only because of my smartass comments. That is wild.

[NavyDavy]

56. I said I sent her to the local sams to get a gift card, I didn't say she

already got it.....so back off.....you calling me a liar your breaking the DU rules on attacking fellow DUers...

[uppityperson]

59. Stop your wild accusations. Show me where I called you a liar.

Show me where I called you a liar. You can't because I didn't. I said good for you, and told you what I did.

You can always alert and pass it on to the mods to decide. I think of it as more making fun of you than mocking. But I am sure she would appreciate the $500 giftcard and your generosity in giving up a fishing trip.

Did you contact your gvt reps asking for more mental health care also?

[uppityperson]

72. I confront you on your stuff and you put me on ignore?

You are too funny.

[Dorian Gray]

111. Love it...

"You're sending the wife?"

That's rich.

[Sydnie]

58. I wouldn't send her a dime

I had nothing to do with her stupidity and feel no compulsion to feed it for her or anyone else that will follow in her example.

I don't feel badly about your "week long fishing trip" either.

[bunnies]

67. A fool and his money are soon parted.

Unless that fool just had a litter, that is. :banghead:

[bunnies]

65. I wonder how much that publicist makes.

That should pay him for a week or two at least!

[Donnachaidh]

91. probably 10 per cent off the top.

Do you think they'll have ANYTHING she can use at Sam's Club? For some reason, I don't expect to be seeing her trying on clothes there anytime soon. :rofl:

[bunnies]

102. lmao.

Maybe she'll autograph the card and sell it on ebay. :evilgrin:

[Kahuna]

164. DING DING DING DING DING! nt

[LynneSin]

83. Seriously - ther are so many better ways you could have spent that money

I'm glad you're willing to put out such a great deal of money but wouldn't it have served a better purpose if you donated that $500 to your local food bank. Help those around you who need it most.

I can't worry about a woman who seems to have a problem with collection children. If those children were cats the Humane society would be inspecting the situation and pulling animals out of the house if they weren't being properly cared for.

[mitchum]

96. Well, then you should your name from NavyDavy to "Mark"

you have been suckered

[juno jones]

71. Parenting classes!

That's what cracks me up, she has a degree in child development and is getting her counseling bona fides so she can tell other people what to do.

It never ends with this one.

[TK421]

78. Are you fucking kidding me? She'll go back to vegetating on the couch

stuffing her trap with bon-bons...she couldn't give a rats ass about the kids

[uppityperson]

79. I was being sarcastic

to that poster. I was called a liar, but it was sarcasm, perhaps even mocking, but not lying. For all that I got put on ignore. tiny tear here. sniff.

that was sarcasm again.

I hope that the publicity she has gotten will serve her good, get her into mental health care, parenting, get her kids the help and care they need also. This hope is not sarcasm.

[TK421]

85. I understand you were being sarcastic

I'm just saying this woman doesn't give a damn about the kids...just a possibility of celebrity status and free shit. I don't think she is mentally ill..since I believe this to be a calculating move on her part and she is aware of what she is doing

edited: spelling

[Sydnie]

37. Why shame on kestrel91316 ?

This woman is clearly ill. We cast a weary eye at those that hoard pets, why not cast an eye on those that hoard children? People don't have this size of families anymore (unless you're a Duggar and that's sick too imho) because they don't have family farms to run anymore. She is already crowding herself and her previous 6 kids into a house where her parents also live that only has two bedrooms. How is that a sane choice in this day and age?

She is no child expert ... she's a pregnancy anomaly and nothing more.

[kestrel91316]

97. Why? I expressed my opinion and made a prediction.

I had her wackadoo-ism pegged the very second I heard she already had 6 kids leading into this. Then the grandma came right out and said as much.

Shame on WHAT???

[XemaSab]

127. Hey Kestrel

Want to do a pro bono spaying? :hide:

[THUNDER HANDS]

215. or a golddugger

:hide:

[cboy4]

7. Octuplets mum 'deluged by offers'

On the other hand...

A Californian woman who gave birth to octuplets has been showered with book and TV offers, the woman's newly-hired publicist has said.

The mother, Nadya Suleman, wants to tell her story and is weighing up the offers, said publicist Joann Killeen.

<snip>

Ms Joann Killeen said she was contacted by Ms Suleman to represent her and that hundreds of offers had been received. Many were for interviews but some have been to host TV shows or be a baby expert.

"She's the most sought-after mom in the world right now," said her publicist.

Ms Killeen said they were looking at all the opportunities, but that Ms Suleman was still in hospital recovering from the births and wanted to focus on her children.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7869345.stm


TV crews have descended on Ms Suleman's
house near Los Angeles

[LynneSin]

8. That's the job of the publicist is to sell the story

but the problem is, no one is buying it.

[cboy4]

19. I know I don't buy it.

No corporation, et al wants to be involved in that controversy,

[Horse with no Name]

99. EVERYONE wants an interview

(because everyone wants to gawk at a freak show).
The problem is, nobody wants to pay for it.

Oprah quit paying her guests YEARS ago so it seems that the publicist should have done her homework before throwing the story around that they were "considering" offers from Oprah.
http://www.oprah.com/community/message/50534

[bunnies]

10. Looks like she may still get a TV show though.

I find it sickening that anyone would consider rewarding this behavior at ALL.

[shanti]

76. she'll probably get a free tummy tuck too

just like kate gosselin. :eyes:

[hamsterjill]

144. And hair implants!

First - I hate that show.

But I can kind of associate the need for the tummy tuck with a pregnancy resulting in six children.

But I'll be damned if I can figure out the husband's hair implants!!!

[ClarkUSA]

12. How did she get the money to conceive 14 kids via IVF and donor sperm??

She's unemployed, has no husband and is on food stamps?? WTH is going on?

[Muttocracy]

25. didn't she work at an IVF clinic? nt

[ClarkUSA]

26. I heard she was a psych hospital aide a long time ago but that's it. Figures, eh?

[kskiska]

60. Workmen's Comp?

Octuplets' mother filed at least two workers' compensation claims

Nadya Suleman reported an injury in 1999 while working as a psychiatric technician at a state hospital, and again in 2001 after a car accident occurred while she was en route to medical treatment.

By Kimi Yoshino
8:43 PM PST, February 3, 2009

The Whittier mother of octuplets and six other children, including a set of twins, has filed at least two claims for workers' compensation, according to state records.

Few details were available about Nadya Suleman's first injury, which occurred in 1999 while she was a psychiatric technician at Metropolitan State Hospital in Norwalk.

In 2001, Suleman filed a second claim with the Workers' Compensation Appeals Board for "injury to neck, back and shoulders from auto accident on commute for medical treatment," according to records filed with the California Department of Industrial Relations.

The records list her earnings at the time of injury as "max," but provided no dollar amount. Suleman received treatment for the injuries and was covered by her employer or insurance company, according to the records. She was not covered by Medi-Cal.

Patricia Ortiz, public information officer for the Division of Workers' Compensation, said that Suleman was earning at least $490 per week at the time of her injury.

Records state that the claim was filed because of a disagreement over liability for temporary disability indemnity, permanent disability indemnity, reimbursement for medical expense, medical treatment, compensation at proper rate and rehabilitation.

Additional records show that a petition was filed last September to compel Suleman to attend a medical exam with "petition to terminate liability for temporary disability indemnity."

more…
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-octuplets4-2009feb04,0,7770087.story

[ClarkUSA]

70. That may explain her funding... and her welfare checks for 6 kids.

Oy.

[Horse with no Name]

100. This woman has been desperately searching for a free ride

with the popularity of these large family shows (and Baby makes 8), and the publicity that the Duggar's receive, the other 6 that she had to increase her monthly welfare income just didn't cut it and she was afraid the gravy train would be over by the time she could actually HAVE children one at a time.

[1Hippiechick]

18. And would someone please explain to me how one clothes, feeds, & meets medical needs for all these

children? A single mom? You've got to be kidding!
Someone else said she is a golddigger and obsessesed with having children. I think she's a nutjob, alright, and she is USING children to feed her obsession.

Personally, I would like to see child protective services remove the children from her. She sounds deluded to me.

[NavyDavy]

50. she worked at the mental health facility for 11 years until 2008

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. Yeah... THAT'S the ticket! Yeah! Let's make sure eight innocent children suffer due to the choice

their mother made. THAT'S the ticket. Make them all go to bed without dinner, ALWAYS!

Another truly progressive viewpoint.

[LynneSin]

30. One way or another somehow she'll get help however

we should not be awarding these big jackpots of lifetime of diapers, & baby food + TV & Book deals.

We need to send the message that the poor choices one makes is NOT something that should be rewarded.

AND if any chance it's proven that the doctor went out on his own and planted more embryos than what standard practices suggest then that woman has a very very valid case for a lawsuit.

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. I knew you weren't that callous. I've seen your posts and you're bang-on 99% of the time.

I was just reacting out of hand to the notion that the newborns should be punished for the mother's choice. I KNOW you never used the word punish, but that's what the sentiment amounted to at first glance. Apologies.

Something tells me this wasn't done by a doctor in the US. Is there any discussion of where this took place? I wonder what American doctor would hold him/herself up to such likely ridicule. I know I wouldn't. Think, this guy/woman will be a pariah in the medical community for the rest of their career. I can hear their cocktail party discussion: "Oh yeah, YOU'RE the doctor who implanted the eight embryos in the unemployed, unmarried woman."

If it was done by an American doctor, he/she should have their license either suspended or revoked permanently, and their past actions with other patients should be investigated.

[juno jones]

73. I'm fine with welfare for her brood,

I'm pretty much fine with state intervention if she is diagnosed as mentally unstable.

But I do not think the media, corporations, etc should be rewarding her behaviour. Hell, beyond basic care there shouldn't be any rewards in this society for turning your family into a side show.

The adulation of huge broods puts me too much in mind of entites such as the Roman Empire, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

[Horse with no Name]

101. With the economy the way it is

I guarantee others are looking at this as an option to fund their lives since there aren't any jobs and are watching intently how this plays out.
I certainly hope that this is seen for what it is and she does not succeed in her misadventure.
I would HATE to see these large size families springing up all over the country in the hopes that they, too, can grab the brass ring.

[kskiska]

22. Once she started having them

she never went more than two years before having another. Most of the kids are only one year apart.

[underseasurveyor]

24. Well it's not like she and her husband (if she had one)

had been trying to have a family for years and years and then finally decided to have IVF as a last resort to have children.

No I think this woman is very selfish and was hoping to be the recipient of great gifts like a car, a house and truck loads of free baby stuff not to mention she would be the center of all this lavish attention. All the wrong reasons to have children imho.

And by the way.. if she lost her house and was so broke how in the Hell did she pay for IVF? A friend of mine and his now X-girlfriend had IVF done almost 2 years ago and it cost him 20K. So where did she get the money?

[Night_Nurse]

205. That's what I'd like to know, as well... how DID she pay for the treatments? nt

[WHAT]

28. I feel sorry for her...

The whole thing makes me cringe.

[hlthe2b]

77. I don't... but I do feel sorry for these poor kids...

who, under the best of "lemonade" scenarios are going to have some level of "neglect issues."

[WHAT]

153. ...yes, but

the children obviously have an inoperable mother.

She's off, somehow, and can't think straight with respect to caring for them. Someone should have seen that before she had power over these eight additional lives...clinic? grandparents? husband?

The care of the children will come first, I only wish it could have been stopped before it came to that.

[RandySF]

32. She had this coming, BUT..

If she had been white and had lived in Iowa instead of (eww) Los Angeles, they would still be gushing.

[Sultana]

118. She is white

Middle Easterners, North Africans, Europeans and South Asians are part of the 'Caucasian' race.

[FedUpWithIt All]

33. Those poor babies. Without support these kids are doomed to a horrific life.

:cry:

If support is given it will further encourage self centered nut cases to take this route to fortune.

Terrible.

[LynneSin]

36. Personally if the woman was smart she'd see if anyone would adopt some of those kids

That would be the most heroic thing she could do in this whole entire mess.

Yeah, go ahead and flame me (that's to all of DU and not just who I replied to).

[FedUpWithIt All]

43. Someone who would do this in the first place is not quite right.

That is IMHO of course. I have never met the woman. She may be, as it appears already, incapable of seeing the big picture as far as the children and their wellbeing is concerned.


I do hope that, no matter the outcome, the children are able to live a happy, safe, healthy, secure and loved life.

[1monster]

88. No flame here. I keep seeing people suggesting that CPS become involved and maybe take

the kids from her, but that would be disasterous for the kids, to be placed in foster care with little or no chance of getting out.

Adoption would be a god-send, especially if the children were able to stay in touch with each other (and perhaps with the grandmother who seems to have done more for the first six than their mother has) over the years.

[krabigirl]

90. Adoption sounds great. CPS and Foster care, not so good.

[LisaL]

119. I doubt TLC would be interested in giving her a show if she gives some up for adoption.

[seabeyond]

75. cps has to be standing by. n/t

[uppityperson]

38. One good thing about publicity is I bet CPS is watching her and them.

Hopefully taking a good hard look and figuring out what is best for the children.

[LibDemAlways]

140. Take a look downthread at the reponse I received to a similar post.

(Posts #122 and 129). Unbelievable that my credentials as a good Dem are being attacked right here on DU because I expressed concern for the well-being of all 14 of those children.

I am in complete agreement with you. The child protective people have an obligation to make sure those children have the support system they will need to thrive.

[JitterbugPerfume]

42. the fact is , these children are already here

and in spite of their crazy mom , they deserve the same care and nurturing any child would recieve. The mom is in serious need of some kind of psychiatric care, because she is one sick woman!

The best thing for them would be to have them placed in a loving and caring home, in my opinion.

[uppityperson]

53. Indeed. I am with you on that. eom

[LynneSin]

80. I agree with you totally! In a nutshell this woman is "the crazy cat lady"

except these are not cats we're talking about but human beings.

Someone needs to intervene.

[appleannie1]

48. Suleman’s income is unclear. She was employed by a mental hospital from 1997 through 2008.

Are they sure they got that right? Instead of working there, she should be a patient.

[Triana]

62. Any woman with six kids who wants more via IVF - ought to be questioned

by the Dr. It was an irresponsible decision on her part and her Doctor's.

This is rediculous.

[LynneSin]

81. Any doctor willing to provide these procedure and then plant more than the normal # of eggs

ought to have his/her license revoked.

[JitterbugPerfume]

103. maybe he /she wanted to be famous too

some Drs are as nutty as she is . An MD after your name does not insure sanity! I am competely stunned by this case.

I had six children (took care of them too) and I can not imagine having eight more . I had a real struggle raising them , and I do not recommend such a large family to anyone!

[wordpix]

192. I agree, and the fact this doctor is laying low is an indication he/she is worried

[Acadia Blue]

63. Irresponsible and insane

[SmileyRose]

66. Those poor kids.........

[seabeyond]

74. no one is good enough to "craft" image of responsible parent with no money, 2/3 bedroom

house. a grandma. grandpa in iraq, no hubby, fourteen kids under 7 implanted embryo. that in and of itself makes her irresponsible. and with all that she will not ever be able to take care of all of them ergo, no chance of creating responsible.

[slackmaster]

87. Just a few data points - Her mother Angela Suleman owns the home

It has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1,559 square feet. Built in 1964. Sits on about 1/5 acre.

According to tax assessor records she is three years delinquent on property tax - Presently owes the county of Los Angeles over $7,323.80 in back property taxes. If that isn't some kind of paperwork snafu (and it may well be), she is in imminent danger of foreclosure for that.

She bought he house in 2006 for $605,000, with a mortgage of $453,750, variable rate, could have an interest-only option but even with that the payments have to be pretty hefty.

[jazzjunkysue]

89. I wouldn't be surprised if she cooked this up for the $$, alone.

People have attempted crazier solutions, but this one has the ethical issue of using kids for inappropriate purposes.

When/if the school or neighbors report she's neglectful due to limited money and energy, the state will have to swoop down and rescue the kids.

Of course, that's needed, but, at that point, I think the government has the right to insist she get her tubes tied.

[Donnachaidh]

93. that's gotta be one of those itty-bitty ranch *style* homes built in the 60's

If so, the third bedroom hardly qualifies to be a bedroom - more the size of a walk-in closet. Six HUNDRED Thousand for that? OMG. :wow:

[slackmaster]

95. She paid $605 K, Freddie Mac estimates its current value as $423,814

And the LA County Tax Assessor says it's worth $629,441.

:eyes:

[badgerpup]

92. This sentence just floored me...

He suggested she lie low for now and concentrate on crafting an image as a responsible parent.

"Crafting an image as a responsible parent"?
CRAFTING AN IMAGE?
:wtf:
What about just BEING a responsible parent?

:banghead:

I do hope those eight youngest are going to be OK and not have problems later in life related to their premature birth and low birth weight.
This happens a LOT with high-multiple births...which is one reason why doctors don't advocate more than 2 on board at the same time.

Tough on the mom, and harder on the kids...
Mom's body frequently says "OK...I've had enough; everybody OUT!" long before the kids are fully developed and ready to survive on their own.

[Donnachaidh]

94. well, Chimpie *crafted an image* as a Rancher.

:shrug:

This person with his suggestions should be smacked upside the head with a 2 by 4. Let's help the crazy baby mill get past the really BAD publicity.... :eyes:

[Bucky]

109. also as a president. And as a Christian, for that matter.

But what I liked best was his ability to cultivate an image as a compassionate conservative. You have to give him points for pulling that one off.

[Bucky]

108. I always tell my students "I work hard to give you the impression that I care about you"

They either get upset about this or laugh it off. But I'm not saying I don't care. I'm just saying that I really want to give them the impression that I do.

[Control-Z]

114. My daughter was crushed

when her favorite teacher told the class that she worked as a teacher for the money. The teacher is actually quite a successful novelist, but likes the security of teaching. (6th grade) My daughter was under the impression that she really cared about her students and loved teaching.

[Dukkha]

110. good. fuck that opportunist lunatic!

What she did and is doing now is so utterly revolting it's unthinkable that anyone would be dumb enough to support her. I'm glad to see she's getting the backlash she deserves.

[Breeze54]

121. Her ex-husband that FROZE the embryo's should be shot!!

Right? :sarcasm:

Because he knew all about the frozen embryo's and her compulsion and DID NOTHING to stop her!

At least she made plans... she has her BA in early childhood ED and is working on her Masters Degree.

She is showing fortitude and should be able to care for all of the kids financially.

Give her and the kids a break. Screaming about it won't change it.

[Binka]

126. She Made Plans? She Is Showing Fortitude?

Good Fucking Gawd. I am not going to continue posting to you as it is OBVIOUS you have serious critical thinking problems. PLONK.

[Breeze54]

131. And you have serious judgmental issue's -- Plunk!! n/t

[Mamacrat]

166. Financial reality.

Anyone with just a BA in early childhood ED and a masters in counseling (or ED) is not going to make enough to support even her previous six children, much less eight more. She should be able to care for the children financially, but she won't. The fact that she thinks she will be able to do so (new video with her stating so: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2009/02/today-exclusive.html) is just another indication of her instability and disconnect with reality. It's one thing to talk about her rights regarding abortion, but once she brings a child into the world they have as many rights as she does, and in a healthy family they should have (and do) more needs than the parents.

[Breeze54]

184. Welcome to DU, Mamacrat and thanks for the video but

it remains to be seen if she will succeed in raising them and a lot of what she's saying now?
I attribute to having just given birth and euphoria. (hormone fluctuation) Reality will set in
... soon enough. I say, give her a chance. The proof will be in the pudding. We can't change it,
at any rate now. What's done, is done.

[Hannah Bell]

116. I don't see her crime in being honest about what others are more skilled in dissembling -

jon & kate both quit their jobs, their new jobs are being filmed & doing speaking appearances & media deals. their big talent? having multiple babies. you think there was never a point when they said to themselves, "hey, we can really milk this!"

there's a new big-family show tonight, this one has 27 kids.

Who's promoting the theme? there's like 8 shows about huge families on tv now. is there really such a huge audience who wants to watch giant families visit zoos & such?

no surprise people imitate it if it's glorified. hey, "i had octuplets! never been done! better than john & kate!"

so many people dumping on the woman whose only crime is being overtly grabby instead of smoothly, hypocritically grabby.

[LibDemAlways]

123. I think people are catching on to Jon and Kate, and their 15

minutes may soon be up. How can they flaunt their new million dollar digs on tv and then show up at churches with their hands out looking for "love offerings"? Definite disconnect there.

In this economy I don't think viewers are going to continue to cheer them on as they go on free luxury vacations, collect free hairplugs and tummy tucks, and smugly proclaim "all mine" as they gaze out onto their new sprawling property - all the result of having sold out their children's privacy for the almighty dollar.

I hope they've saved some of the money TLC is forking over because they may well need it to pay the therapy bills when those kids are older.

[Breeze54]

120. That's a real shame.... the babies deserve better treatment and so does Mom...

People really suck!! :grr:

[LibDemAlways]

122. I just hope that the social services people step in

to protect those babies and make sure they receive the care they need. They and her other children are the innocent victims in this mess.

[Breeze54]

129. Not such a "Lib Dem" after all, huh?

:shrug:

The woman has 14 kids and is college educated, BA, working on her Master's Degree.

How do you know whether or not she'll succeed in raising them all? :shrug:

Talk about off the cuff, profoundly judgmental and NOT A 'LIB'!! gheesh!!

Call the police!! Call Social Services!! A Woman dared to have a lot of children!!

Sound the alarms!!!!!!!!! :wow: How DARE she MAKE A PERSONAL CHOICE!?!?! :sarcasm:

Ah..... BUT "Lib Dem"? It isn't your decision at all.....

What about her EX that didn't take control of the embryo's?

He knew that she was obsessed. That's why they got divorced.

So? What responsibility does he have, 'LibDem'?!?


Are you sure you're a Lib? You attacked the female first instead of the male.

WHY?! :shrug:

How about being supportive? That's what those babies and children
need right now. NOT admonishing or judgement of their mother... by you.

She IS their mother.

Have a little respect. Did you forget what" CHOICE" really meant?!

You and I and that woman/Mom have a CHOICE NOW!!!!

It's only been like that since the 1970's!!

Lighten up!!!

Not everyone in this world will choose what you choose but that's OK.

It's not your call nor your decision.... It's their life!!

Worry about your own life.

;)

[grace0418]

135. Uh, I *know* she can't succeed in raising 14 kids by herself, even if she has the money.

Even if she was superhuman and never needed to sleep, eat, go to the bathroom, or do any other activity besides care for her children, there is not physically enough time in the day for each child to get the attention that a child needs to thrive. Sorry, I lived it, it's not possible.

[LibDemAlways]

138. I have one child. When she was born a woman from

social services came around to my hospital room to ask me a few questions about my home environment. Apparently that's routine around here. I live in So Cal not far from the octuplets' mother, so I assume she'll be getting a similar visit.

If she can manage 14 kids, more power to her. But not likely without a huge support system, and that's what the child welfare people will be looking out for. I never said her children should be taken away or that she was necessarily an unfit parent. I only said all fourteen of her children deserve to be looked after and protected.

[uppityperson]

151. I disagree breeze.

Having CPS check on her would be a good idea, protect those kids. I wouldn't care if she had a doctorate degree already. From what I read about her life already, having her checked up on would be a good idea for the kids. Yes, call CPS when a woman who is not able to support her already existing 6 children has 8 more. Sounds reasonable to me.

Are you saying that the sperm donor for the fetuses should now be responsible? I thought I read something about his not wanting her to use more of his sperm since he was getting married. Besides, are you really saying a man who donates sperm for IVF is responsible for any children that result from using that sperm?

Finally, what the HELL is the "are you sure you are a lib" crap about? Good grief.

[Blue_Tires]

162. well i do question the mother's motives

since almost from the start she was trying to pimp them out for freebies, a slot with oprah, a book deal and reality TV parenting show...yes, she made her choice and that's her right, and it is our right to call her out on her fuckwittery

[Seldona]

124. "Good! We need to stop rewarding people for stuff like this"

Yea, fuck those babies, right? So what is your answer? Starve them? Take them from their mother for being poor and making poor decisions? Jesus. I guess a woman's choice is somewhat limited, eh?

[LynneSin]

136. Do not confuse "reward" with normal services available for this woman thru the gov't

This woman and her doctor made an irresponsible choice. She shouldn't hit the jackpot with gifts and book deals and other bonanza for her and her doctor's stupidity.

However, I would never deny anyone the normal services provided by the government for children who are in need.

[grace0418]

125. I think any hope of "crafting an image as a responsible parent" went out the window

when she went for fertility treatments after already having 6 kids. :mad:

[Breeze54]

130. That's what CHOICE is all about. and why are you angry about her life?

It's her choice! NOT yours!!!

She isn't stupid, has a degree and is working on her Masters Degree.

AND the cells divided and that is why she had 8. The cells divided 'in-utero'.
Meaning she also had TWINS among the 8 babies! They didn't implant 8 embryo's
from the beginning and what responsibility do the Doctor's have for putting her
through this and implanting that many?? Why didn't the father/ex-husband take
steps to control the frozen embryo's, huh? Doesn't HE have some responsibility
in all of this too? :shrug:

[grace0418]

132. It's a stupid and selfish choice that the CHILDREN will pay the price for

the rest of their lives. And while she has every right to make that choice, I have every right to have a terrible opinion of it. HER choice doesn't affect just her. It's personal for me because I come from a family of eleven kids. I grew up knowing kids from six other jumbo sized families in our town. My brothers married into a family even bigger than ours. And while all us kids are decent people, we all paid a huge price. And at least our mothers' had us kids naturally and one (or two) at a time. They didn't spend what little money our families had on fertility treatments.

Kids need care and INDIVIDUAL attention. Leaving aside the fact that this woman doesn't have the money, room or adult support to raise her kids, she already had SIX kids before she got pregnant...six kids who already get such a small fraction of their mother's time and attention. Why wasn't that enough for her? And because money can't ever really be ignored in a situation like this, why did she need to spend money getting MORE fertility treatments, even if it only resulted in one more child instead of eight (by the way, are you REALLY trying to suggest that septuplets versus octuplets makes a big difference, seriously)? Wouldn't that be money better spent taking care of the SIX KIDS SHE ALREADY HAS? Those older kids are now going to be raising themselves and each other because she sure as hell isn't going to have the time or energy to take care of them, and the grandmother already said she's washing her hands of the whole thing.

When did I ever say that the father had no responsibility? Or the doctors? Please, point out where I said that, because I'd like to know. All the supposed adults are responsible in this, and all fourteen of those children will pay the price. I will say that the mother, though, bears the most responsibility. If she wasn't obsessed with some selfish need to give birth to a sports team instead of a family, none of this would've happened. She doesn't care about anyone but herself, that's obvious, and her stupid decisions have a ripple effect on fourteen kids. A college degree doesn't necessarily make one smart, by the way. If you believe that, I could trot out MANY examples to the contrary.

[LynneSin]

133. Her choice to put 14 children thru what should be a living hell?

Nobody has the right to play 'Crazy Cat Lady' if they do not have the means to take care of those children ESPECIALLY when the children were not conceived naturally.

I may joke about the Duggars but all 18 of those kids pretty much happened on their own free will. This woman with 14 kids did not have these children naturally but sought out an unscrupulous fertility doctor that was willing to bring more children into a world where there was no visible means of supporting those kids except the hopes that perhaps she'll hit the jackpot and society will give her all sorts of freebies because of the octuplets.

Reputable fertility doctors will never put more than 2 or 3 eggs into a uterus at one time. They know that anything more than that is a serious health risk not only to the mother but to the children that could born from this treatment.

If I choose to have a perfectly healthy leg amputated just because I feel that's what I want (and trust me, there are people that actually feel this way) does that make it ok for the doctor to do this procedure (btw the answer is "no"). So just because this woman wants to be a 'Crazy Cat Lady' with babies instead of cats that does not give her the right to do these expensive procedures over and over again.

[MaryEllen9399]

137. I feel bad for the 14 kids

plus one of the 6 older kids is autistic as well.

[fifthoffive]

139. Where did you read/hear that?

All I've ever read/heard is that there were 8 embryos implanted.

[grace0418]

158. But honestly, it doesn't even matter. Even if she only had one embryo implanted and it

somehow divided into 8, she still had no business getting more fertility treatments when she already had six kids at home who need more than she could ever hope to provide. Breeze54's argument goes beyond silly and into the realm of "are you effing kidding me with this?!"

[jmg257]

145. Surely, it's HER choice - then it's HER responsibility. Think that is what the anger is about. nt

[Shakespeare]

150. And with choice comes responsbility.

Oh, and I know LOTS of folks with post-graduate degrees who don't have a lick of common sense. That's no proof whatsoever that she's equipped to handle so many children. In fact, all evidence we DO have is that she is NOT capable of caring for the six children she already had, much less the 14 she has now.

You don't have any idea--and certainly no proof--that those embryos ALL divided in utero. The chances of that happening are damn near mathematically impossible. The truth is, you don't know how many embryos she had implanted. She didn't have an "ex," she had a sperm donor; one who'd asked her not to have the rest of the embryos implanted. And if her doctor works in this country (there's been talk that she had the IVF treatments done in Mexico), then he faces possible repercussions from the state medical board over ethical issues.

However, at the end of the day, the woman--a single mother--is the one who has sole responsibility for those 14 children. So you're damned right I hope social services keeps a close eye on her for the sake of those kids.

[uppityperson]

152. "They didn't implant 8 embryo's" where is this info from? Everything I've read is she had 8 implante

I haven't read that. If you'd pass on link(s) I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/05/earlyshow/health/main4777292.shtml

Hospital officials say the octuplets born outside Los Angeles ten days ago continue to do well. But, reports Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman, the California Medical Board is investigating "to see if we can substantiate a violation of the standard of care" in their implantation in their mother's womb.

Nadya Suleman, 33, had eight embryos implanted, her mother has told CBS News. Suleman already had six children, aged two-to-seven, at the time. Questions remain about how and where Suleman received the fertility treatments that led to the birth of the octuplets, Kauffman points out.

Fertility specialist Dr. Mark Surrey remarked to Kauffman, "It's not good medicine. It's really something that should be critiqued and condemned."

Suleman once worked as a psychiatric technician for a state hospital in Norwalk, Calif., Kauffman says. But she's been unemployed since 2001. Documents show she filed two workman's compensation claims, including one for a car accident. Her mother told CBS News that's how she paid for the fertility treatments. The question, though is -- how will she pay for raising the kids? ...

http://www.contracostatimes.com/top-stories/ci_11630820

...No one's yet sure how the woman came to carry eight babies. But her mother, Angela Suleman, said the younger Suleman had leftover frozen embryos she didn't want destroyed, so she decided to have more children, The Associated Press reported.

Dr. William Hurlbut, a Stanford University professor who also sits on the President's Council on Bioethics, said he was "troubled" to hear that the woman bore eight children. "It's hard to take care of one baby," he said. He added that "we obviously want to welcome children into the world. But this has to be viewed as a failure of clinical medicine."
(clip)
If Suleman was impregnated via in vitro fertilization, then the physician implanting the embryos clearly didn't follow the society's recommendations, said Dr. G. David Adamson, a Palo Alto fertility specialist and immediate past president of the American Society of Reproductive Medicine.
(clip)
One of the first lines of defense against outcomes such as the octuplets' birth, by a woman whose mother described as "obsessed" with having children, is a mental health screening.

While it's sometimes referred to as a recommend step for parents seeking fertility treatment, it wasn't listed in the 2006 "Revised minimum standards for practices offering assisted reproductive technologies," authored by the society and its sister organization, the Society for Assisted Reproductive Technology.

[Breeze54]

168. She told NBC she had had six implanted this time, and that two resulted in sets of twins.

"She told NBC she had had six implanted this time, and that two resulted in sets of twins.

Octuplets' mother defends risky choices

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g9FfVmodUb0sjrQ4aoTAb5lbljmg

6 hours ago - February 6th, 2009

LOS ANGELES (AFP) —

The single mother-of-six who gave birth to octuplets in California last week defiantly defended her personal choices as risky, but insisted: "it turned out perfectly."

Nadya Suleman, 33, who now has 14 children, told NBC News in an interview broadcast on Friday that "all I wanted was children.

"That's all I ever wanted in my life. Sometimes when we have that dream and that passion, we take risks. And I did. And it turned out perfectly," she said.

Suleman said that being an only child had left her yearning for human and family connections she felt had been lacking while growing up.

"That was always a dream of mine, to have a large family, a huge family, and -- I just longed for certain connections and attachments with another person that I -- I really lacked, I believe, growing up," Suleman said.

The Medical Board of California confirmed Thursday it had begun an investigation into the births "to see if we can substantiate a violation of the standard of care."

Suleman's case has angered fertility experts after it emerged she had her own previously frozen embryos implanted.

Under guidelines issued by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine (ASRM), a woman Suleman's age should have no more than two embryos implanted.

She told NBC she had had six implanted this time, and that two resulted in sets of twins.

more...

[Shakespeare]

171. Yeah, because implanting 6 embryos is just SO much better than implanting 8.

:sarcasm:

Then she'd only have had 12 kids!

[Breeze54]

172. That was her original goal... 12 children. n/t

[Shakespeare]

173. And your point is? n/t

[Breeze54]

174. My "point"? She was shooting for 12 but the cells divided and she got 14 !

Her choice.

[Shakespeare]

176. And I have every right to criticize her idiotic, selfish, ill-thought-out choice.

14 kids, all under the age of 7. All by herself, and 8 of them that are high-risk premies.

Yes, she did a highly stupid thing. Shooting for 12 instead of 14 isn't any better.

[Breeze54]

177. Yes, you do have a right to voice criticism but it's her choice, at the end!

;)

[Shakespeare]

179. Did I say it wasn't?

No, I didn't. I have said she's selfish, immature, perhaps mentally ill, and just downright dumb. And that's what you seemed to take issue with; as if 12 kids were okay, and the 14 were an accident...

Some choices aren't defensible, but it's entertaining to see a handful of people around here attempt to defend her.

[Breeze54]

181. I'm not taking issue with anything you said. You're entitled to your opinion.

Maybe it's just me. I grew up when very large families (14+ children) were common.

Those kids survived and succeeded, so I guess I think these kids will too. ;)

[Shakespeare]

183. And those kids weren't delivered all at the same time.

You really don't seem the problem with having eight infants simultaneously? You really don't understand how it'll be almost impossible to handle that many infants? Having that many kids one at a time is enough of a challenge, but it's at least more responsible than what Suleman has done.

[Breeze54]

185. There were multiple sets of twins in the families and all were about 11 months apart and

they all seem to be happy, healthy adults, from what I last heard.
I'm sure she'll have to hire help or request help from local groups
or whomever reaches out to her and the children but so did the
families that I knew. ~ "It takes a village..." ;)

[Shakespeare]

186. You can post that winkie smilie all you want; it doesn't make you sound any saner.

Having consecutive sets of twins--which I have in my extended family as well--ARE NOT THE SAME as dealing with 8 premie infants, all at the same time, who will all have health issues.

It may take a village, but it doesn't look like those around her are too willing to help out. They all sound completely fed up with her. I just feel sorry for the kids.

[Breeze54]

188. Get off your soap box....

"it takes a village" was Dem. SOS Hillary Clinton's phrase, in case you didn't know that. :eyes:

Bottom line is, be as outraged as you like! It's still none of your business.

It was her CHOICE.

[Shakespeare]

189. You first.

Yes, I know where the phrase comes from. Hillary actually borrowed it from an old African tradition. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

And as long as she's got a publicity agent out flogging for her, she's making it our business.

That it was her choice is utterly irrelevant. Her judgment and mental capacity are, however, extremely relevant.

[Breeze54]

194. I don't have a soap box... just my opinion. YMMV.

I'm glad you remember, where that phrase I posted, came from! ;)

That explains my use of the smiley! :D

The rest of what you stated remains to be seen.

Have a great weekend! :D

[uppityperson]

202. Breeze, I understand your feelings about large families and that is not the issue for many of us.

Having multiple sets of twins is different from having 8 or 6 embryos transferred at the same time. How many octuplets do you know who are all happy, healthy adults?

That is the issue, for me. There is a BIG difference between twins and 8 or even 6.

[uppityperson]

201. transferring 8 or even 6 embryos is wrong and against most ethical policies.

Most places I know of limit it to 2 or 3 embryos at a time and would never transfer 6 since if they all took (even if none divided) it would still be too many, too much chance of causing harm to the mother or the developing babies/embryos. This is not a choice, but ethical policies.

[ima_sinnic]

214. ALL you care about is her "choice." you could care less about those 14 children

--she's "working on" a Master's degree? oh, is she planning to go back to school instead of caring for 14 children? is she going to use that degree to work full time INSTEAD of caring for those children?

Even WITH a Master's degree, she'd make, what? $40K, $50K/year? you think that's anywhere near enough to provide 14 children with diapers, toys, books, DAY CARE (since she'll be working), clothing, FOOD, medical care?

And where will they all live? Someone mentioned above that there is a huge tax bill overdue on that tiny house where they live. What happens when the house is foreclosed for tax nonpayment and she and her 14 are homeless? HUH? WHAT THEN?

And what will those last 8 poor little children do when they grow out of babyhood and she's tired of them, as she was of the first 6, and has 6 or 8 or 12 more??

It is obvious that you and she both have absolutely NO IDEA of the 24/7 care that a couple of children take, let alone 14. When will she sleep? And how will the older children have a childhood when they have to play free babysitter to the younger ones?

hey, she could "choose" to have 20 more babies to neglect. But that would be "her choice," so that would be OKAY, right? Because the ONLY THING that matters is whether she CHOSE to do it or not. The resulting human beings don't matter in the slightest, especially that autistic one, who is now essentially doomed by neglect.

Your hand-wringing self-righteous, sanctimonious condemnation of those of us who are APPALLED at such irresponsible, self-centered, IMMATURE behavior is a joke. Grow up.

[wordpix]

193. this woman is a lunatic and so is her doctor

[Breeze54]

197. Why? The DR is an idiot but why is the mother a lunatic?

:shrug:

I get that having 14 children under the age of 8 yrs. old is insane!!
and having 8 of them newborns is even more insane!! I get it.... but
it was her choice. She tried to make way for the financial by getting
a higher education and I commend her for that! Damn! I went to college
with 2 under the age of 5, after my divorce and was also working full
time and how she managed to move onto her Master's Degree is astounding
to me!! That tells me that she is smart, intelligent and will be able to
handle this!

It's typical of the "progressive" DU to admonish anything that doesn't fit
the 'norm' OR anything that doesn't fit the conservative agenda... why?
I have no idea why DU seems to have been infiltrated by NON-Progressive's but
it has, imho. But as a liberal? I say, she may be out of the norm in 2009 but
she has the right to make a CHOICE, be it good or bad and that remains to be seen,
at this point.... YMMV.

[wordpix]

209. try to get over your POV & consider what the already overpopulated planet would be if every woman

"made her own choice" to have 14 children. Instead of 6 billion people inhabiting the very finite planet Earth, which is already too many in terms of habitat destruction, extinction of species, and having enough space, food, clean water, and medical care for all, we'd have many billions more.

Envision building enough housing units for those 14 kids, grown with families, in this crazy woman's backyard, and maybe you'll get it. If you can.

[uppityperson]

200. Thanks Breeze, all I'd seen was her mom saying she'd transfered 8, not this.

6 is too many to transfer, and any doctor who transferred that many embryos was acting unethically, in my opinion.

[defendandprotect]

143. If she were a lesbian, the kids would be taken from her . . . !!!

[Breeze54]

178. How do you know she isn't?

:shrug:

[Political Heretic]

149. I wouldn't go as far as sending her hateful things.,, but yeah, I see no reason to reward either.

[dawgmom]

159. Good, indeed

I'm sick of the way the media rewards these overpopulating boneheads. Every time some idiot drops a litter of babies, that's all we hear about. Not about the millions of dollars in healthcare costs most likely borne by taxpayers and hospitals to care for the inevitably underdeveloped babies once they're delivered. I heard one estimate that NNCU costs for these kids could top $2.5 million. That doesn't even get at the costs down the road, because you know some or all of them are going to be F'd up -- cerebral palsy, developmental problems, etc.

I swear -- any network or show that gives this idiot a minute of air time, or pays for even an interview? They're getting a letter from me and a promise to boycott. I've had it. Why are we celebrating these morons?

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. This is worst than I thought the 14 kids were products of IFV?

Now that is an irresponsible medical system

And to those parents of kids conceived through IFV who actually needed it... this is not about you

You needed it, you have two, three kids

But this lady (and the irresponsible medical team) pulled a medical stunt, no other way to put it.

GOOD that she is not getting sympathy... and I am almost betting those kids will end up in state custody sooner or later.

[Breeze54]

180. Please stop judging.... it was her choice...

I don't know, nadinbrzezinski; but I grew up in an era when it was common
for families to have over 14 children and I knew 2 families that had 17 &
18 children, respectively. So? In the year 2009, this is unusual but it
really doesn't outrage me at all. I'm glad she has higher education and
that will allow her to provide for the children. Besides, there's nothing
any of us can do to change it now. What will be, will be. Vive la différence!

[wordpix]

195. it's her choice to destroy the planet & push endangered species to the brink

Great decision, let's support her. :sarcasm:

[Breeze54]

198. I'm not destroying the planet nor are my 6 other siblings.

:shrug:

[wordpix]

207. you & your siblings had no choice when your mom had you - this woman does!

jeesh

[uppityperson]

203. No, it was irresponsible to try to have that many embryos at one time.

It was irresponsible to put this huge of health issues on that many children when she could have had 2 or 3 who had more chance surviving and being healthy.

Yes, there is something that can be done by publicizing this. Hopefully it will get notice of the medical community who does IVF and they can check with their ethical standards are. Do you transfer 6 or 8 embryos at the same time, KNOWING that you will be putting the intense health issues onto them? Or do you limit the number to those who can survive and have a decent change of being healthy? Do you try to make people with a huge potential for severe health issues on purpose? Why?

Most people I know in the med/health care community have been appalled at this. To repeat: Do you try to make people with a huge potential for severe health issues on purpose? The Hippocratic Oath states First, do no harm.

[ima_sinnic]

216. how will her "higher education" help her to "provide" for them?

one has to WORK in order to use education to "provide" for anyone.

So, let me get this straight: she is going to get up at, say 6 am, having slept through the night, every night, ignoring any babies that are crying, hungry, wet, sick, etc., go into the bathroom, shower and then don an outfit that she bought with all that income she's making, then drive off to work all day?

How much does daycare and babysitting cost for 14 children 5 full days a week? any guesses? My neighbor here in backwash Maine says she can get $88/wk per child for daycare--that's $1,232 PER WEEK ONLY FOR DAYCARE for 14 children in rural Maine. I don't have a clue what it is in LA, but I'd bet anything it's a lot more than that. What about diapers? What about FOOD?

she's going to spend more than $61,000 a year on the salary made from a Master's degree only for daycare. RIIIIGHT!!!

Those poor children. If only you cared about THEM as much as you do about the crazy breeder's freedom of choice.

[Rockholm]

169. OMFG...Why did her lips? Rally Bad Injections.

Damn, Her lips are worse than Meg Ryan's.

[wordpix]

196. what photo are you looking at?

[Rockholm]

199. Clip of her interview with Ann Curry.

[Night_Nurse]

206. Yep, I saw that tonight, it's like she's trying to emulate Angelina Jolie...

with the straight black hair and big lips and a bunch of kids - but without Angelina's money, or Brad.

So where did an unemployed single mom of 14 get the $$$ for cosmetic enhancement?

That interview was a joke; when asked how she was going to support all those babies, she answered, "I'll be able to fully support them as soon as I finish school." Right... her daycare bill will be more than her salary... IF she finds a job in this economy.

*edit for typo

[wordpix]

208. she doesn't need daycare b/c her mom takes care of the kids - just what someone in her 50's wants

to do, take care of 14 young children including newborn octoplets all day. :wtf:

[cherish44]

210. She'll get millions for the first baby pictures

She will cash in on this. Our nation is too tabloid obsessed to ignore this story.

[JonLP24]

213. If I was Donald Trump

I'd give her between 5 to 10 million. I don't know anything about her so I'm not qualified to comment on this except for the fact that outrage isn't going to do anything for these children. Maybe she has a plan, maybe she doesn't but my best wishes goes out to this family as well as all others.