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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 04:25 PM
Original message
Childhood Trauma Linked to Risk for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Childhood Trauma Linked to Risk for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

A study conducted by researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and Emory University School of Medicine has identified childhood trauma as a significant risk factor for the development of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).

The results of the study, published in Archives of General Psychiatry, confirm that childhood trauma (sexual abuse and emotional maltreatment) is associated with a six-fold increased risk for CFS. The study also found that low levels of cortisol, a hallmark biological feature of CFS, are associated with childhood trauma. Cortisol is frequently referred to as the "stress hormone" and diminished levels result in abnormal responses to stress.
Low cortisol levels a marker

"The study indicates that low cortisol levels may actually be a marker for the risk of developing CFS rather than being a sign of the syndrome itself," said Christine M. Heim, PhD, lead author of the study and Associate Professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Emory University School of Medicine.

"These results are pivotal to understanding the underlying pathophysiology of CFS. More importantly, 6 of 10 people suffering from CFS have been severely abused as children. Physicians must consider this possibility when evaluating patients and devising a treatment plan. CFS patients who were abused as children need to understand that their traumatic childhood experiences are common among other CFS patients," said William C. Reeves, MD, MSc, principal investigator of the study and Chief of the Chronic Viral Diseases Branch at CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/news/2009/01/cfs_childhood/
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. It could also be that sleepy children are more likely to be abused.
No, wait.

Actually, this DOES sound like a good causal link, I think.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is interesting. I've never heard this bit before. n/t
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is there a category for Chronic MENTAL Fatigue?
Becoming emotionally exhausted from life?
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
35. In order: Burnout, Nervous exhaustion, Nervous breakdown, PTSS. n/t
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 10:53 AM by kickysnana
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. makes sense to me.
Growing up with excess stress hormones running through your system is bound to have some adverse effects.
Thanks for posting this.

:hi:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think a lot of clinicians have at least suspected this for a really long time.
The connection to complex PTSD is fairly obvious, actually.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's interesting...
Edited on Wed Feb-04-09 06:06 PM by CoffeeCat
...because in my support group. for survivors of childhood sexual abuse, more than half
have CFS.

Survivors have a lot of health problems. Also, lots of depression and other mental-illness
diagnoses that are clearly coping mechanisms developed to deal with the trauam.

I've never seen a study that drew a correlation between trauma and CFS.

It makes sense that the system may attempt to shut down--due to being overwhelmed.

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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. interesting but I always found people had just had something
traumatic happen in their life, a turning point, that they did not emotional deal with and the symptoms show up about a year or two later and therefore got this which is really something doctors name to anything they do not know what to name it.
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condoleeza Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's about time that CDC is studying this epidemic
I'm sure that this will also be connected to fibromyalgia, yet another of the auto-immune disorders that are not "real" diseases and are diagnosed via a rule-out diagnosis by Western medicine. When you are a child or an adult with childhood and/or PTSD issues, and something triggers a stress reaction, your body stops producing cortisol and your body goes into hyperactivity of the immune system. The immune system is great when you are dealing with a virus, or a germ, but when it doesn't have a germ or virus to attack it attacks your body. A lack of cortisol is the main cause of arthritis and how many people do we know who have that?

So we have symptoms, joint pain, etc., caused by stress, but western medicine isn't tooled up for that. So even though we test negative for the rheumatoid factor, how many people follow their doctors instructions and take methotrexate and other "arthritis" drugs for their symptoms? Methotrexate is a very toxic cancer drug that suppresses the entire immune system, which makes you susceptible to any other germ, bacteria, etc. out there and can lead to liver failure, our rheumatologists assure us it is our only choice and it is a major money maker for the drug companies and the doctors. It isn't, however, going to help you if the core problem is stress. You need to manage the stress and the lack of cortisol will not be as much of a problem. BUT, that is not the focus of western medicine, which relies on treating symptoms instead of curing the illness.

The drug companies are not our friends in this instance. Having a history of nearly every kind of abuse, being diagnosed with arthritis and fibromyalgia, even though I tested negative for the rheumatoid factor, the only thing that saved me was biofeedback, learning to recognize the signs of being triggered into PTSD and how to stop it before it triggered my body to stop producing cortisol and going into full blown immune response.

Why do any of us get sick after something happens, someone we love is in danger via illness, etc.? This is the cycle we all need to recognize so we don't go down to the deep end of this and stop it before our bodies attack us. Unfortunately, this has been my life for the last 15 years and I have made great progress. At one point I feared I would be completely incapacitated but I have learned so much about how to manage stress. Just a small example of my "cycle": my 36 year old daughter just had a medical test come back that is scary and she was waiting to talk to her doctor about it. I knew there was nothing I could do, I knew it was a bad idea to google anything and scare myself further, so I didn't. I heard the news last Friday. On Sunday I had every symptom of arthritis/fibromyalgia, my ears were weeping some sort of fluid that I have no idea where that comes from but it is my "normal" reaction to stress. My body was in defensive mode.

I don't know if there is a personal message section on this website, but if anyone reading this wants to "talk", I have many years of experience with this.


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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. there's a Chronic Health Conditions DU Group --
you have to be a donor to post, but you can read and see if that's something you're interested in. very supportive group.

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condoleeza Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks, I will look into that
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. i was diagnosed with fibro and CFS a few years ago and have gone thru hell
trying to figure it out and get it under control. fibro is worse for me than the CFS, but, if i let the fibro get out of control, the CFS kicks in with a vengeance. the key to keeping the fibro in check, for me, has been to control the pain and get lots of high quality sleep. i can't let the pain start to spiral or else i wind up flat on my back for weeks.

after years of really awful experiences with doctors i finally found a family practitioner who 'gets it' -- her mother actually has fibro, so she's definitely a "believer" in the condition, and has been successful in keeping me healthy for a couple of years now.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and CFS in 1981
when very, very few doctors had heard of either, and most just prescribed antidepressants for them. I've since found ways of nearly eliminating the fibromyalgia but not the CFS. I'm using Adderall to try to overcome the extreme tiredness, plus exercise, vitamin supplements and dietary changes. I can only dent it at best. It's very tough to be a single self employed person and cope with all of this, but there's no help out there anywhere, so cope we must!

I'm here too if you need to talk. Hang in there!

:hug:
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condoleeza Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I tried to send you a message
but apparently I do not have enough posts to be trusted not to be a wingnut. I've used this site as an educational site, I don't post here often, maybe you can message me if you want to talk.,
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. thinking you may have to be a DU donor to access that feature
might email the admin to make sure.

Welcome to the party! :hi:
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
34. Spec scans indicate that some people with CFS are brain starved for O2.
I have had to take medicine for angina caused by arteries that clamp down when they should dilate. Also have had Reynaud's. I have not had a recurrence of CFS symptoms while on that medicine.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. That makes a certain amount of sense
I have hereditary issues with my circulatory system, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's been contributing to the problem. I'm glad that your symptoms have gone-that must be a huge relief!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. There is now a known link between trauma (such as sexual abuse) and fibromyalgia
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 04:05 AM by Hekate
My sister actually found a medical article online several years ago, and both of us said "Wow, the gift that keeps on giving."

There's more. Go to this site Dysregulation Spectrum Syndrome http://www.fmnetnews.com/basics-overlap.php for a discussion of Dysregulation Spectrum Syndrome. There's a circular graph with the following ailments -- and if you have one, like CF, you are likely to have a couple of others, like FMS and migraines. Boy does that "gift" keep on giving. We each have several in the spectrum.

CFS = Chronic Fatigue
RLS = Restless Legs
Irritable Bowel
Irritable Bladder
MCS = Multiple Chemical Sensitivity
Primary Dysmenorrhea
Migraines
PLMS = periodic limb movement during sleep
Tension Headaches
TMJD = temporomandibular joint dysfunction
MPS = Myofascial Pain
FMS = Fibromyalgia Syndrome

It wasn't until I went to a lecture on FMS a year ago that I learned about DSS, and when I finally had my appointment with the lecturer (a neurologist) he ran down a list of potential traumas that actually (!!!) included childhood sexual abuse, to which I said "Yes, age 12" (should have been more clear: it was actually ages 12 through 13) and he said, "It changes the structure of the brain."

I found it very useful information. Also useful (because of the potential we apparently have for making our brains better) is reading Jill Bolte-Taylor's "My Stroke of Insight" about her traumatic stroke at age 37 and how she reconstructed her neural pathways. I actually have her book on 6 CDs from the library that I have been listening to in the car. What she says in the last two sound very much like a neurologist describing what the Buddhists tell us we should be doing with the long practice of meditation--constructing new pathways in our thinking until we really change.

In the meanwhile, I'm continuing to use conventional Western medicine to treat what can be treated--it's just that now I know how much of it is all connected.

Hekate




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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. Our current medical system is set up for acute illness.
Welcome to DU and I hope things work out for your daughter.

We have the tools to find the imbalances that make so many people's lives a living hell but nobody uses them. So many of the people with chronic illnesses are left out.

Chronic Health Conditions Discussion and Support
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=317

Career Help and Advice Chronic Health
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=362

Disabily
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=250
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zagging Donating Member (531 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. I guess I and my five brothers are outliers
Edited on Wed Feb-04-09 06:54 PM by zagging
We got the fuck knocked out of us and we are all wild as hell. Not a sleeper in the bunch. Might have to do with sleeping with one eye open lest the old man sneak up and bust you solid for eating your beans too noisily at supper.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. CDC has long promoted the "it's all in your head" approach to CFS/CFIDS
this is NOT a good development.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm bookmarking this. CFS has been an interest of mine (an obsession, actually) for
a long time.

I've even lost friends to suicide who had this. Their doctors ignored them.
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condoleeza Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I've lost a sister and brother to suicide
My sister hung herself, my brother drank himself to death, his twin is so tightly wound I fear he may be next. Western medicine only treats the symptoms, they don't have the time to understand the source. My rheumatologist thinks I am crazy for not taking methotrexate and in my city he is one of the top 100 doctors. If I had followed his advice I would be incapacitated by now.

PTSD is what this article is really talking about here. I am disgusted that it has taken this long for "western med" to recognize this as an actual disease that CAUSES other diseases. At my most cynical analysis, it is just all about money. They don't want to cure you, they make much more money treating you.

The biggest money maker for medicine is diabetes. Prior to the Bush ban of stem cell research, there was a study that showed a "cure" for diabetes. Any wonder that Bushco and prior to that Bush1 made stem cell research illegal? The reality on this is that scientists didn't stop their research, they just hid it. Stay tuned for some big announcements of cures soon. Don't imagine Cheney has sold his stocks in Searle Drug/Montsanto, at least I HOPE he hasn't, as they are about to take a huge hit since Obama has changed the rules.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kick and Rec.
I asked my doctor about this in the late 90s and he called it a "garbage can diagnosis." He said he usually prescribed anti-depressants for it

But in his defense, he was a great doctor. This was just before we knew what we now know about CFS.
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
for friends and loved ones who suffer from this syndrome
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. here's an article that discusses the problem with psychological foundations of CFS
this group, the national CFIDS foundation, does research and advocacy for the condition. here's an article from their newsletter that gives a sense of the complex politics involved in the issue of physiological vs psychological "causes" of the disease.


http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/summer-vol11-1.htm



Naming CFIDS

Several years ago, the board of the National CFIDS Foundation (NCF) was asked to change their name to the CFS/ME Foundation, Inc. The board voted it down unanimously. We don't know what CFS is. We don't know exactly what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) uses for test patients in any of their recent studies. We do, however, know that, by excluding any patient that has neurological problems, they are excluding everyone who has ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis). So why don't we change the name to ME and drop the CFIDS? There is no federal medical code for ME in our country and physicians are unable to diagnose a patient with anything but "CFS."

In the late fall of 2000, the numerical code for myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) was removed from the U.S. code of ICD-9CM.

As explained in our last issue of this newsletter, CFS was a name selected by a committee appointed by the CDC in 1988. Horrified at the erroneous, insulting and trivializing name, Seymour Grufferman, M.D., Ph.D. suggested the use of CFIDS or Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome as the immune dysfunction problems had already been proven scientifically. England, at the urging of one NIH (National Institutes of Health) highly placed employee, has also adopted CFS and seen a similar quagmire develop. Their own government has been preparing draft guidelines for medical conditions and several groups have found fault with the language presented for "CFS/ME". Our own government has been responsible for defining CFS so loosely that it resulted in a vague collection of symptoms in which the symptom of chronic fatigue is paramount. In the United Kingdom as in the United States, this has resulted in a very mixed group of patients that continue to stray farther and farther a field of the well-defined, virally triggered disease with neurological complications which is what the World Health Organization calls myalgic encephalomyelitis. The result of renaming this "CFS" and avoiding all proven science has led medical practitioners to treatments that could be damaging and those who have milder cases could well be pushed into further severity by some of these suggested treatments. If one of the major symptoms of a disease, for instance, is post-exertional malaise, it is not only illogical but inappropriate to prescribe exercise as a treatment that could well result in furthering the severity of the disease.

ME and the artificially constructed CFS are not the same illness. In England, the draft report of NICE, the National Institute for Clinical Excellence, were so hotly contested by some patient groups that the publication was delayed from April to August. One of the objecting groups was The Young ME Sufferers Trust who feels that a good solution would be to separate ME from CFS "for the sake of patients and medical accuracy." Alexis Shelekov, M.D.. who was on the CDC's committee that named "CFS" and quit in disgust was the first recipient of the AACFS's Rudy Perpich Memorial Lifetime Achievement Award for CFIDS/ME. In his acceptance speech, he called for a change to the name.

The only clinical guidelines that exist today is the Canadian Criteria for CFS/ME which has recently been updated. However, the United States does not recognize that criteria and has carefully erased ME from its diagnostic code. If they were to adopt the Canadian Criteria, the CDC would have to revise all the work they have done along with all the press releases they have issued on "CFS."

Historically, there are many who were against our government obliterating any reference to ME by continuing to carefully craft the new version of CFS to be a mysterious and unexplained illness. In 1999, the NCF joined together with RESCIND, INC. and the Medical Professionals with CFIDS to have the United States recognize ME. They did not ask for CFS to be eradicated but for ME to be recognized. Jean Harrison of MAME, Inc. wrote "Recognizing ME (London) will be a great step in the right direction. It will debunk the false notion that this is a new disease..." (Vol. 1, No. 4, Forum). An ensuing investigation led Jean to question Joe McDade, Ph.D. of the CDC who made the announcement of the diagnostic code for CFS that put it under "Malaise and fatigue." He said he didn't know why it was done even though the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) is under the CDC's auspices.

By the spring of 2001, an effort to recognize ME in the United States that was well underway in the same manner that Multiple Sclerosis advocates had changed the name of "Hysterical Paralysis" was crushed. A senator referred by Senator Edward Kennedy (D, MA) had agreed to add an attachment to a bill that was going to be approved by the United States Congress. This attachment would recognize ME. At the last minute, there was a decision change and a senior aide to this senator admitted she had talked to Kim Kenney McLeary of the CFIDS Association of America. Ms. McLeary told the CFSCC (CFS Coordinating Committee) that she wanted to wait until a conference slated to be held in Brussels had a chance to vote to hear a world opinion despite the international medical community, along with their own membership, being in favor of ME.. The Belgium conference overwhelmingly supported ME but the damage had already been done in the United States and Ms. Kenney and The CFIDS Association of America had successfully blocked the recognition of ME in the United States.

How did professionals react to the trivializing and erroneous name of CFS? In a newspaper article run by Reuter's Health by Julia Schleszer, Leonard Jason, Ph.D. said, "I have felt for many years that the term chronic fatigue syndrome, which came in 1988, was...a trivial name. If I said you had chronic cough syndrome, you would probably think that is kind of trivial. But if I said you have tuberculosis you would probably say, well that is serious." In his book, Faces of CFIDS. David Sheffield Bell, M.D. wrote, "It’s absurdly trivial and unscientific name: chronic fatigue syndrome...not only debases the patient who suffers from it, this name also seems to chip away at the self-esteem of the doctor, especially if he is a highly paid specialist with a reputation to protect." The president of the AACFS at the time, Dr. Sudhit Gupta, felt "it would be a mistake to change the name until we know this disease better." Along the same lines, Dr. Nancy Klimas said in a post to the internet that she "was listening hard" but was concerned that a name change (to ME or otherwise) may be harmful as she could "envision folks having their disability claims turned down in the confusion of a name change." In response to this, the Spring, 2001 Forum article by Robert Huntington reported "This is totally absurd and we even checked with SSA (Social Security Administration) to verify our own thoughts. The SSA responded that they merely change the name on their materials and let all within the system know! Why the false scare tactics? Is Klimas afraid of not winning more government money?...they use every excuse, including not wanting a name that has an improper meaning, that is merely another fallacy. There are more diseases with names that mean nothing but they don't serve to obscure the illness...malaria means 'ill wind' after all, and cancer was and is an astrological sign!" Daniel Peterson, M.D. said the name has allowed for the disease to be trivialized and said "We've been held back by biases."

A Name Change Workgroup was appointed by the CFSCC (CFS Coordination Committee) but the majority of the members were heavily biased. Commenting on an Interim Report from this DHHS appointed Name Change Workgroup in a guest editorial printed in The National Forum in 2001, Tom Hennessy, Jr., president of RESCIND, Inc. wrote, "This workgroup was a sham from the beginning. For the patients, they completely ignored anyone from RESCIND, Inc. which STARTED the name change movement and had brought up the name change at EVERY meeting in public or private for 12 years. They ignored the Medical Professionals with M.E. which had been outspoken with the need for a name change since 1991. They ignored the National CFIDS Foundation that had worked to get a name change written into law for several years. They INCLUDED Ms. Kim Kenney, who has done almost nothing positive for the past 10 years and who had worked to STOP any name change movement whenever possible. They included a relative of Stephen Straus, whose incompetence, bias, and venal pettiness are legendary, and another former NIH person with NO experience in any support groups, NO experience in the name change movement, and NO credentials in organization of ANY kind...So it was set up to fail from the start...just like every OTHER committee for the past twelve years." The Workgroup's recommendations were ignored when the CFSCC disbanded and the CFS Advisory Committee (CFSAC) convened. One of the ignored recommendations made by the CFS Advisory Committee was to recognize "CFS" as a neurological disease. That, of course, was ignored as was all the other recommendations.

At a meeting that was held in order to determine a new criterion for CFS held by the CDC, the lead author, Dr. Keiji Fukuda, was asked about epidemics of the disease of ME around the world. He agreed that there were numerous epidemics of ME but none of them were epidemics of CFS. Dr. Fukuda was telling the truth. In the CFS definition, CFS remains quite open to interpretation that points to it being a psychiatric disease instead of a physical illness. Although the CDC has consistently claimed that CFS is a physical syndrome, nobody can name another disease that where one is subjected to a six month waiting period before diagnosis. Both the 1988 and the 1994 CDC criteria are very similar to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder's somatization disorder. ME is not the same. Primary ME is chronic and disabling and it has both central and peripheral aspects along with clear central nervous system abnormalities that have been proven scientifically.

The NCF continues to refer to CFIDS/ME and they agree that "CFS" is a mysterious syndrome but it is not CFIDS/ME. We are referring to a disease that produces neurological symptoms including but not limited to impaired cognition, calculation difficulties, spatial disturbances, sleep disorders (already ruled out in some new research by the CDC for "CFS"), unusual nightmares, numbness or tingling feelings, disequilibrium, ringing in the ears, intolerance of bright lights, intolerance of alcohol, frequently saying the wrong word, night sweats, alterations in taste, smell and hearing, twitching muscles, excessive urination at night (nocturnia), headaches, etc. If you have just one of these symptoms that came on when you got sick, you do not have CFS, you have myalgic encephalomyelitis.

In the Nightingale Research Foundation's definition of myalgic encephalomyelitis, written by Byron Marshall Hyde, M.D., it states, "Myalgic Encephalomyelitis is not CFS. Fatigue was never a major diagnostic criterion of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis. Fatigue, loss of stamina, failure to recover rapidly following exposure to normal physical or intellectual stressors occur in most if not all progressive terminal diseases and in a very large number of chronic non-progressive or slowly progressive diseases. Fatigue and loss of stamina are simply indications that there is something wrong. They cannot be seriously measured, are generally subjective and do not assist us with the diagnosis of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis or CFS or, for that matter, any disease process."

The CDC has made the "CFS" criteria so loose that it eliminates anyone with any neurological signs or symptoms yet ME is a neurological disease. The damaging effects of their criteria along with the trivializing name have served to have other patients who do not have ME able to be diagnosed. The pathophysiology has been harmed. Science has taken a giant step backward as illustrated again and again. One new example is a study from Norway that found cognitive behavioral therapy and graded exercise "of proven value." What did these Norwegian adolescents have that produced improvement with these treatments? All new research reports coming from our own CDC are not only not addressing CFIDS/ME but their information ignores the neurological coding along with all the science that has come since the 1960's. This misinformation continues with the recent CDC's public awareness campaign that has ignored all the science.

When we refer to CFIDS/ME, we do not refer to CFS but to ME. We wish we had the power to force our country to recognize a disease that was carefully chronicled decades ago by Dr. Melvin Ramsey and has been listed by the World Health Organization as a neurological disease. If, indeed, the CDC feels Americans are incapable of pronouncing myalgic encephalomyelitis (that was one excuse given), let them call it Ramsey's Disease but it is more than apparent that their excuses were untruthful at best. We refused, years ago, to change the name of our foundation to CFS/ME. We do not address CFS. We don't even know what CFS is. We do know that it is not what we have and it is not what we are funding toward research that is looking for real answers. While the CDC eliminates all people from research who have neurological signs or symptoms, we ask those physicians who participate in our research studies to make sure that the patient has them and are diagnosed correctly.


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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-09 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. Everyone has had childhood trama. This is stupid. n/t
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Not everyone has had the same type or
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 01:14 AM by mzmolly
volume of trauma though.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Define Trauma as you see it (nt)
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. Childhood trauma
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 10:47 AM by kickysnana
Physical
Extreme illness that requires a long hospitalization or surgery, acute illness or accident that when you think about it brings back terror. Sexual or physical abuse.

Emotional trauma
Anything that makes you feel deep terror, shame, or grief when you think about now.

My brother had experimental open heart surgery when he was 6. He still needs to take a valium to make himself go to the doctor or dentist even with a round of counseling.

I was brushed by a car and knocked down turning car in a crosswalk at night on my way to a music lesson at age 7. I just skinned my knees and hands but the thought of a 1950's car coming straight for you like you don't exist still haunts me. (He did stop and was really upset he had not seen me in time to stop. I could not speak for about 20 minutes just nod yes or no) I still take a deep breath before I start across busy intersections. My Dad usually came and waited with me but he had an appointment to fix someone's TV his moonlighting job so he dropped me across the street and we both thought it would be OK. First time I ever felt I could actually die.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. I am glad the you were able to deal with your childhood trauma.
Edited on Thu Feb-05-09 11:32 AM by FedUpWithIt All
:hi:

For those of us who still struggle with the repercussions of our own trauma experiences your post seemed a bit callous and inconsiderate. Hopefully that was not the intent.

Imagine you had to face that car knocking you down EVERY DAY for years. Would the level of trauma be more profound? That constant and unrelenting stress, fear and anxiety is what some people are trying to put behind them. Of course over the long term a body will adapt to such high stress situations in unusual ways. We have only begun to explore those ways.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I was never dismissing people only the study as being pointless.
Water is wet, stress makes most conditions worse even past stress.

What good is going to come of this study? They wasted scarce research dollars on this?

The mental health system in this country has been broken since Reagan. There is even more stress trying to find help there.

Most people with chronic pain symptoms are evaluated psychologically now since some pain responds to antidepressants and even anti seizure medications.

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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. um, we've all had some trauma, but
My eldest sister remembers, as a toddler, being picked up by her hair and bounced off walls...by our mother. My earliest memory is watching my mother putting on her makeup, and then turning and screaming at me and slapping me hard across the face. I was 3. That is my earliest childhood memory.

I remember my mother's twice-weekly rages. A day or two of rage -- screaming, throwing things, slamming things, hitting, screaming. Followed by a day or two of depression. 1 or 2 days or relative normalcy. Repeat cycle.

I remember being beaten until I peed all over myself because I didn't have any clean underwear available. I was 6. I still remember begging her to please, please let me go to the bathroom first, and then she could hit me. I remember my pants and legs being soaked with pee, and when the pee stopped flowing she shoved me away, yelled, "There, NOW you can go to the bathroom" and then screamed "JOSEPH!!!!! COME CLEAN UP THIS MESS!"

And hearing my father's cackling, nervous giggle, "Oh, did mary wet herself?" as he headed to get the mop and pail.

And then the dinner guests arrived, and we sat down to eat, sans my father. And my mother laughing and smiling and telling everybody that he'd be late, that I wet my pants and he was cleaning it up. And everybody at the table laughing at me. Even my 4 year old cousing, mocking me and laughing that I was such a baby that I wet my pants.

That was my childhood. They killed our pets, except the dog. My father hit my sister so hard he knocked her to the floor, and her dog jumped him. So they gave the dog away.

When I was 10, she screamed at me, "I didn't ask to have you, you know!!" and I screamed back, "Well, I didn't ask to be born!" and she got all bent out of shape. Or at least, more bent out of shape than normal. It shocked her into a moment of silence for a change.

I remember when I was 14, 1 weeks after my middle sister left for college. I came home from school and the house was closed up and locked up. They'd gone away for the weekend and left me locked out in the street. I wasn't allowed to have a key. After a couple hours I remembered our neighbors had a key, so I got into the house. At 10 that night, the phone rang. My mother didn't even say hello when I answered. She just snapped at me, "How did YOU get in the house?"

It was not an accident. They did it on purpose, and the 2nd time they picked a weekend when the neighbors were away, so I had to break into the house. The 6th time, it was November and I was locked out in freezing rain. I slipped on the ice on the ladder and broke the window I was opening from the outside. I spent the weekend afraid of how I'd be punished for breaking the window.

And then, of course, there were the normal traumas. So much depends on the emotional support systems around you.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I cannot qualify people's trauma.
I totally agree with you that some people have more trauma than others and that some people cope well and some people go totally insane. Yes, it also does depend on the person and what external support systems the person develops.

But everyone has trauma and what I am saying is that if you have enough physical trauma to make tjhose symptoms you have some yet unnamed part of PTSS, not CFS which had originally had no origin but now does. I mentioned some of them, O2 not getting to the brain because of problem with blood flow, viruses, or probably some bacteria. CFS is still evolving and they way things work, once groups form around a disease they close ranks and do not want to lose members. Studies show that about 25% of MS, RA, ALS and Alzheimers is misdiagnosed Lyme Disease. The MS Society will not discuss this, they actually flew a National Team out to disband a Support Group that was cooperating with the research into this here in Minnesota in the 1990's They do not want to lose those those numbers because their very existance depends on numbers. The fact that MS suddenly increased in incidence in 1975 by 25% was good for them. They do wonderful things but this is a weakness in all these organizations.

We keep repeating in our Lyme Support Groups, not everything is Lyme Disease even though Lyme can cause almost any symptom sometimes the symptom is caused by some other disease or condition.

I guess nowhere have I mentioned that depression, PTSS and other diseases physically leave the brain and its ability to regulate damaged and therefore weaker. At one time almost every lung disease at one time outside TB and pneumonia was lumped together and called consumption. Now we have separated those conditions by cause and we get better treatment because of it.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Wow




:hug:
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. It's not true.
"Some have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good."
-- Melvin Udall (Jack Nicholson), As Good as It Gets (1997)
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. People respond differently to different levels of trauma
An event or series of events that does not affect you may affect someone else deeply and/or irreversibly. Just because you find it stupid does not mean it is. This is very real for real people.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. What What I am saying is CFS has an underying cause and this study is not helpful.
It reminds me of George Carlin doing his fake news "Scientists have discovered that all people who have cancer have swallowed saliva over long periods of their lives."

Having had a diagnosis of CFS in 1994 after being in treatment for chronic Lyme since 1991 (infected in 1974). I got no relief from CFS symtoms until I went to a cutting edge immunology clinic who did a battery of precise tests that determined that I had a chronic epstein-barr virus probably because my immune system was depressed from being sick for so long. I got antivirals for the first time and high does of B12 and the symptoms started to lift for the first time in years at about 2 1/2 weeks of treatment.

I am not saying this is what is causing everyone's CFS symptoms I am just saying that I believe that CFS is one or more physical illnesses not an emotional illness and this study was a waste of time and allows insurance companies to disallow treatment and for others to look no further for answers.

I come from a mind over matter, don't complain, get over it kind of family. I tried with everything I had to be able to handle pain like most people do but I cannot. My tolerance has become much higher but I still get physically shocky with pain. It is not psychological because it happened with my routine colonoscopy while I was out. They gave me epi to get my heart beating right again. We are told to get over things and some people may, some people may not and admit it and some people may not and not admit it even to themselves.

People doing studies will often say what they think people want to hear and most studies you can guess what that might be.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. But very often our emotions ARE linked to physical illness
For example, diabetes.

It's a physical illness.

But it can be brought on by extreme stress, when the body keeps pumping out insulin to counteract the rising blood glucose level brought on by stress. Eventually the pancreas loses the ability to regulate itself. This is exactly what happened to Mr Pipik nearly ten years ago.

Stress...a mental condition...can do terrible physical damage to the body.


Our minds can, and do, cause physical illness.



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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Stress has a physical response using up some body chems..
ie endorphenand sproducing more that have profound long term effects on the body, ie steroids and adrenalin.

Even if diabetes is made worse by stress and you deal with the stress, you still have diabetes.

If you cannot get out of that stress state for some reason, PTSS or depression for example your CFS symptoms are ongoing but the cause is still physical not a choice to be or stay upset about something in the past.

Being "abnormal" in today's society is stressful and there are things you can do to help that does not mean coping is curing and once doctors tell you it is "stess" related you are on your own.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. I'm not sure I understand your point, but I'll try...
some illnesses are caused by stress, and getting rid of the stress doesn't automatically lead to a cure, is that what you're saying?

If so, then I agree.

I have various anxiety disorders, depression, panic disorder, SAD, and agoraphobia. Nobody knows how these things come about, exactly, but many people feel it takes a combination of genetics plus trauma of some kind.

I've had these things for a very long time...since the age of ten, or maybe even before that. Some people think they're "all in our heads" and they're wrong. I've had panic attacks in my sleep, so it's not something I have total conscious control over.

Stress makes it all worse. But even if I were to completely eliminate stress from my life, I would STILL have anxiety and panic and depression and seasonal affective disorder and agoraphobia.

No amount of examining my past is going to make it go away, any more than examining the past of people with CFS will make IT go away. If someone had extreme stress which led to irreversible changes in the body that subsequently caused physical illness, then that's that.

And not every doctor is an asshole who will say, "It's stress related" and then turn the patient loose to deal with it the best he/she can. Some doctors actually do understand that there's a point at which lessening stress does nothing to "cure" the disease, because sometimes it really is too late for a "cure".




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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. But you're trying to compare a real physical disease
caused by a virus, not the result of emotional or mental trauma. You were bitten by a tick that infected you with lyme disease. No doubt it's been difficult for you to say the least but for those that have not or were not infected with an actual virus but rather they were traumatized in childhood by an event(s) such as being abused, molested or neglected.

Two different things.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
24. Very interesting.
Thanks for posting SS.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
29. Thanks for posting this TSS. nt
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CraftyGal Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
30. So it isn't all in our heads.
:sarcasm: Nice to finally have this clarified. I have been told all my life that the paint that I feel isn't real. I will definitely be looking into this.

CraftyGal
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
32. I'm A CFS Sufferer, And My Childhood Sucked!!!!
I'm just glad to see there's some real research finally being done on this disorder. It's torture. Pure torture.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-05-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
37. CFS and PTSD here.
:hi:

Both are pretty well under control now though.
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