Lesbian arrested for kissing her girlfriend on the cheek at mall in San Antonio.

[readmoreoften]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6243685.html

Mall says that technically they were arrested for re-entering the store after being kicked out for the 'lewd' behavior of a kiss on the cheek. In other words: being a gay couple is lewd.

And let pre-empt all the obnoxious "I hate public displays of affection anyway" posts. If you're willing to see your grandma and grandpa arrested at the mall for a kiss on the cheek, then you're a fascist, but at least a non-discriminatory one. If it's only gay cheek-kisses that bother you, then you're just a bigot. And please, no slippery slope arguments about 'what if they were topless and having sex right there in the mall' because they weren't.



:mad:

[MadHound]

1. They were topless and having sex right there in the mall!!!! Damn, where was I?

Seriously, this sort of shit sucks, especially in this day and age. It would be interesting to see if a straight couple got kicked out for the same thing. In fact I would advise this couple that a smart lawyer, a willing straight couple, and a small camera could lead to a large payout.

[readmoreoften]

9. They won't get a cent. It's completely legal to discriminate against LGBT people in most of the US.

We can be fired for being gay--even without a public kiss on the cheek. Being kicked out of a mall is just that much more offensive-- we dislike you so much we don't even want your money

[ColbertWatcher]

18. Then the mall should be proud of their bigotry and ...

... post a sign that says who is allowed on their private property.

[readmoreoften]

21. I'm thinking I should post a sign for them. My BET is that it's a Simons mall.

That's the mall chain that throws out people for t-shirts they disagree with and so forth. In fact, almost all malls are Simons malls. My city voted to give them MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TAX MONEY because tehy 'bring in jobs'. It's a thriving city of over 1 million people. How the fuck does a mall 'bring in jobs.' I'm so pissed I won't vote for the mayor when he's up for re-election. Fuck him.

[LeftHandPath]

135. Simons Property Group - SPG

Dont worry. They wont be around much longer.

This mall, and many many others will be closing their doors soon.

We built too many malls and saturated suburbia. By the time this is all over, we'll be saying 'remember back in the day when we had all those obnoxious malls around'?

[riqster]

79. Yeah, but the public outcry from the video could be helpful nt

[Sandrine for you]

96. I just don't understant...It's really legal fired someone because he is gay ?

Or to discriminate about cheek kissing for gay ? Really legal ?

Or is it that it's just difficult to to make the proof he was fired for being gay ?

Because if it's really legal, USA really disappoint me. I can understand bigotry in some section of people, but in the law ?

[WeDidIt]

101. Yup, 100% legal to fire somebody in almost all of America

for being gay.

It's the new "back of the bus".

[Sandrine for you]

121. I just can't believe it , got to make a research on this

this is a shame, really it's really strange to understand. :banghead:




The USA GLBT community should go directly to some international court about equality of people. I dont understand how your constitution permit this.

[MajorChode]

126. Some states have added sexual orientation as a discrimination basis

However under federal EEO law, sexual orientation is not a legal basis for discrimination.

[JitterbugPerfume]

2. good grief

[Horse with no Name]

3. It is bullshit

And while I disprove of public displays of affection--I do NOT include kisses on the cheek and holding hands "lewd", I consider them tender and sweet, no matter WHO is doing them.
I want to know what they do to teenage couples who are literally having sex on the benches?

[Chulanowa]

4. Since when do women kissing each other equal lesbians?

I know that, in this case, they in fact are... but damn, I see women kissing each other's cheeks, even mouths, giving long soulful hugs, etc all the time. Either it's a "female" thing, or I'm surrounded by lesbians.

Insanity.

[zagging]

6. Depends on the kiss

[Chulanowa]

27. Well, I haven't seen many people of any gender pairing trying to eat each other's head...

If that's what you meant. This is an article about a kiss on the cheek.

[zagging]

34. You are surrounded by lesbians

Throw down your weapons!

[Chulanowa]

48. So many bad, smack-worthy jokes come to mind...

Damn that pesky Y chromosome!

[readmoreoften]

11. Probably because one or more of them wasn't gender normative.

[Deja Q]

14. Do you have proof of that claim?

[readmoreoften]

28. What the fuck is your problem? No I don't have 'proof' of that 'claim.'

Hmmmm. Why might people decide that two women are gay when they kiss on the cheek as opposed to straight friends? Let's take a wild stab at it, Hypnotoad. COULD IT BE BECAUSE STRAIGHT GIRLS WHO KISS ON THE CHEEK ARE GENERALLY FEMININE IN PRESENTATION?

It's called deductive reasoning and LIFE EXPERIENCE AS A LESBIAN. Something you don't have.

[JuniperLea]

32. What fucking bullshit!!

I've known men and women who were not gay but looked it, and those that were gay that you'd never have a clue.

I think you need to get out more. Go to any club on the Sunset Strip and you will find a gaggle of lesbians who are about as girlie as it gets.

Seriously dude, you need to get out more. Way more.

[readmoreoften]

38. Hey "DUDE". I AM a lesbian. And I'm a femme lesbian at that.

With a butch girlfriend who has been kicked out of stores multiple times for being TOO BUTCH. I'm well aware that many trendy LA lesbians are girly. And if they were in a Simons Mall in Texas, I'm sure they WOULDN'T get kicked out for being cheek-kissing lesbians so long as the guard thought there was a chance that they might be cheek-kissing straight gal pals.

They were kicked out because they were read as LESBIANS by a security guard, which tells me he or she used some criteria to judge that the women were lesbians. The criteria usually used by bigots is GENDER PRESENTATION, which is why ENDA is useless without gender protection.

It's called an EDUCATED GUESS and it's an EDUCATED guess because I'm a lesbian, because I see the discrimination, and because I live about 1 1/2 from where the news article takes place.

[Regret My New Name]

78. Isn't it funny how so many people are always so quick to get upset?

Your point was clear to begin with... ;)

[JuniperLea]

80. Dude, I call everyone DUDE

Having grown up as a surfer chick in LA, I've called everyone DUDE forever. And having grown up in LA, in the Long Beach area, I grew up knowing as many gays as straights, and I fail to see any logic in what you are saying. You don't need to be a brain surgeon to know what a headache is about. I'm fairly sick of people telling me my perspective is different because I'm not gay/black/latino/catholic, or whatever. I grew up in the most mixed up melting-pot city in quite possibly the world. There is very little I haven't been exposed to on a grand scale. Maybe it's because people don't get thrown out of public places around here for being gay... if that happened, clubs, bars, grocery stores, post offices and all sorts of places would be quite empty and losing a lot of business. Trendy lesbians? WTF is that? Are they somehow less lesbian than you because they aren't being discriminated against? Or is it that they are just using their sexuality as a fashion trend?

:eyes:

[JuniperLea]

30. My great-granny wasn't "gender normative"

Nor was her sister... Granny had 15 kids, and her sis had 6... and whenever they got together, they liked to talk about all the "nice young men" they dated... I'm pretty sure neither one was a lesbian.

I'm not sure anyone is "gender normative" for that matter. We all start out as girls, and there isn't one of us of either gender who wouldn't look like a member of the opposite sex with proper hair and makeup. I know an awful lot of women who look just like their brothers, and men who look like their sisters.

[readmoreoften]

39. Yes, there is such a thing as gender normative.

Your probably don't realize it because you're gender normative. If you weren't gender normative, you'd know damn well that there's a standard that that they're held by because you'd have the scars to show for it.

[JuniperLea]

12. I'm guilty of that...

I always thought it was a female thing. In many countries, women walk arm in arm down the street, and while shopping. I've done this with my mother, my grandmother, and with my daughter! I'm not a lesbian... weird that someone would think so based on this sort of thing.

[Deja Q]

16. Given how our society thrusts sexuality into everything, such preconceptions are inevitable.

Which is unfortunate, but I am thankful I am not in the industry either writing or acting what people get to see and react to.

And I too am ignorant about two of the same gender walking arm in arm down the street (both female from your perspective), though I've not often been to other countries and would only read up before going to them...

[JerseygirlCT]

24. Me too! nt

[GinaMaria]

110. My sisters and I kiss each other on the cheek to say hello and goodbye

Good to know we are lesbians. We'll have to inform our husbands. What would we do without mall employees? We would never know who we truly are :sarcasm:

[Prophet 451]

139. It's a female thing

Every really notice how women are so much better off than we are in terms of intimate friendship? As men, we're only allowed to tell our friends we love them when we're falling down drunk, we're certainly not allowed to hold hands with our close friends. And it's not like it's universal either. In parts of Africa and Asia, it's entirely normal for men to walk hand-in-hand. It's considered a normal expression of friendship and utterly non-sexual. How many of us actually have deep conversations with our friends? Not about politics and stuff but about how we feel? I know I don't.

[ferrous wheel]

5. The "marketing director" is an outright fucking liar.

"Danielle Pardue, the mall's marketing director, denies the women's claims of discrimination and said security officers would evict anyone found kissing in the mall, regardless of sexual orientation."

[cascadiance]

31. Heteros should then do a kiss in the mall to test them...

... and see if they get arrested. Get it down on video (right in front of mall security) and then you have evidence to sue their asses off!

[petronius]

40. Then it shouldn't be too hard for her to round up some examples of hetero

couples who have been evicted. Otherwise, he needs to explain what was so horrid about this kiss that it required this new CYA anti-kissing policy...

[JuniperLea]

7. Ridiculous

Next, I won't be allowed to walk arm in arm with my daughter, or stand with my arm around her shoulder, or give her a kiss on the cheek, for fear some asswipe will think we are gay and toss us out?

Love and human kindness should never be banned. I'm sick of people!

[Waiting For Everyman]

8. Heck that's done in Congress every day.

Restaurants, get togethers of all kinds. So only lesbians aren't allowed to do this? Preposterous bullshit!

[liberalmuse]

10. Good god, I'm so sick of living on this planet.

WTF is wrong with the human race? Here's hoping it goes extinct. SOON.

[depakid]

29. Don't imply that everywhere is as foul as Texas

Not in America- and certainly not in most other western nations.

The south and lower midwest- that's a special breed. No quarrels there.

[readmoreoften]

43. Oh please. My girlfriend was escorted out of plenty of bathrooms in MANHATTAN.

In fact, she's been thrown out of more 'women's bathrooms' in NYC for looking too masculline, then she has out of ANYWHERE in Texas. In fact, we've never been thrown out of anywhere in Texas for being gay. But in NY and NJ, it happened all the time.

San Antonio is a major city. There is no "special breed" involved.

[leftynyc]

61. You or your girlfriend were thrown

out of malls for kisses on the cheek in New York? Where? Cuz I see men doing it all the time without anyone caring. I find this happening in NYC very hard to believe.

[TrogL]

106. My ex-wife and i got thrown out of one of the roughest bars in town

She looks extremely butch and was getting confused as to which bathroom to go into. Some of the biker guys got interested but then the poolsticks came out.

They watched me try to make the same shot 50 times then they'd had enough.

[stuntcat]

57. every day..

Lately I'm noticing every single day stories about people being convicted for life for crimes they had no part in. Two stories I heard in the past week were about police teams bursting into innocent people's homes killing their pets and roughing them up when they hadn't done ANYTHING.
Why doesn't every single citizen know about the shit that happens? I'm afraid they just do not care.

People have gone crazy, I do not see them getting better either, it gets worse all the time. And we're not as "free" as some of think we are..
I'm so glad I'm almost 40. I pity the hell out of the little babies I see.

[leftynyc]

59. Don't stick the entire human

race with the shit done in Texas. This simply would not have happened in New York - ANYWHERE in New York. As for hoping for the extinction of the entire human race - grow the fuck up.

[krabigirl]

73. Ehh, I am jut sick of living in America. That's all. This shit would be fine in say the Netherlands.

I reeeaaaalllly want to move. The fundies are ruining this country.

[Eryemil]

104. Or you could come to Canada. We're America-lite, all of the shitty reality TV, none of the hate n|t

[Jamastiene]

100. I feel that way sometimes too...

especially when I read stories like this. It's a damn shame.

[Deja Q]

13. Then I'll be the non-discriminatory fascist.

:)

Actually, just a kiss on the cheek is too little for anyone, and really - anyone, to get upset about. On the cheek and it's the one on the face.

I may have a thing against excessive "P.D.A.s" but a kiss on the cheek? Everyone does that. Even family members and they're not the types that end up on Springer's show.

Just a kiss on the cheek. That's nothing.

French kissing and swapping spit is another matter, which IS too much and I don't care who's doing it. (There is a time and a place, and there are people who find it discomforting to see people necking or groping in full public view. They have a right to their say too.) But I digress. With luck, they'll go after equally discourteous heterosexual couples and ensure those people get into the news as well. I want proof they're doing equal treatment and, quite frankly, if everybody kept actions appropriate to the venue, there would be none of these complaints made by ANY couples. (Common courtesy is surely not a dead form of art?? I know the Victorian era was a bit prude, but having been coupled in the past and single in the past, I know enough peoples' perspectives and where to side on this.)

[Harry Monroe]

15. How stupid!!

Kissing someone on the cheek is "lewd"?? Most members of my family are pretty affectionate towards one another. I always greet relatives with a kiss on the cheek and a hug. Just normal behavior where I come from. I guess we would all be thrown out of that mall for "lewd behavior". Jesus!!

[Deja Q]

19. Please read the article. I did in the middle of my response to the OP...

The article implies rather more had happened and the OP was instantly siding with the two women.

And while I cannot blindly side with the cop's point view, I am retracting my blind support of the two ladies' claim it was only a peck on the cheek*. I wasn't there, different things were said, and I'm sure anywhere between one and fifty video cameras caught the whole incident on tape. In front of a live studio audience.

* As you, I, and others have said, a peck on the cheek is done by everybody and would NOT be considered lewd at all. Most cops wouldn't bother for something so legitimately a non-issue. It's possible the guy was a twerp and wanted to randomly pick a fight, but with luck there were fifty-one cameras to get the whole incident, from every angle... (I used to loathe cameras but in a society that gets off on litigation, if there's enough slack evidence before the cops show up and do the deed, they can come in handy. :( )

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Brethren]

17. I would've expected this kind of blatant bigotry

years ago, but not today over a kiss on the cheek in the mall. That is asinine.

[cobalt1999]

20. Unless by cheek they meant on the butt cheek, I can't see how anyone would bat an eye.

Obvious discrimination.

[shirlden]

22. Joe Biden

Kissed both of his sons right on the mouth at the inauguration. I thought it was so wonderful and loving................but now, I am not so sure.............could it be there was something else going on there???? Grown men ???? Kissing each other ????? On the mouth????? In Public???
OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This kissing shit has got to stop.........
:blush:

[JerseygirlCT]

23. Geez. Seriously - could they even have known the two were

lovers? I mean, I kiss friends on the cheek all the time.

How incredibly, totally stupid.

And I wonder how many teenaged, straight couples were at that very moment, making out at the mall?

[leftynyc]

62. My niece also

Guess that makes me a pedophile.

[Horse with no Name]

26. Interesting. So can we arrest these two? Pretty please??

[2Design]

33. hope thousands of gay people show up and kiss all day n/t

[elias7]

35. Did you read the article carefully?

You say, "If you're willing to see your grandma and grandpa arrested at the mall for a kiss on the cheek, then you're a fascist, but at least a non-discriminatory one."

They were not arrested for public display of affection, but rather asked to leave for that. You may be projecting a lesbian discrimination slant to the request to leave, but the girls stories differ from that of the officials, so one shouldn't automatically choose sides. Especially since one was arrested for "trespassing, resisting arrest and assault on a peace officer".

Would you be coming so strongly to their defense if it was two teenage guys breaking decorum in some way and being asked to leave, only to find that they sneaked back in through another entrance, and got belligerent when confronted by police?

[readmoreoften]

41. Did you "READ" my OP? Which addresses your "CONCERN"?

Are you OKAY with people being thrown out of a mall for being a GAY COUPLE? And what exactly does "belligerent" mean? Would an African-American couple be "belligerent" if they returned after being thrown out of a mall for being black?

You're an apologist.

[elias7]

111. I'm not an apologist, I just read the incident differently

If they were unfairly targeted, then they were discriminated against, no question. I don't know what constitutes a crime in this regard, but if they win, I'll be pleased.

I don't get a clear sense from the article whether or not they were targeted for being a couple, whether or not different-sex couples are not targeted, whether they were giving each other a peck on the cheek or if they were sitting with legs entangled in passionate embrace. I get "he said, she said".

I think anyone has the right to be angry and belligerent when confronted with perceived injustice. It would have been better for their case if they had taken a higher road (sneaking back in, getting disruptive and physical with the police), my bias in reading the story is more towards seeing adolescent behavior without clear reference to gender.

[Zuiderelle]

49. "projecting a lesbian discrimination slant to the request to leave"

Did YOU read the article? Jesus. Two women were kissing, most likely one or both "looked" gay, so therefore they made someone uncomfortable and in the end were asked to leave, which is where the fucking "lesbian discrimination slant" comes in.

God.

[elias7]

113. How do you know that?

When you say, "most likely one or both "looked" gay, so therefore they made someone uncomfortable and in the end were asked to leave", you are expressing an opinion of your own; it is not stated in the article.

I've read the article several times, google-newsed the topic for more info; nothing definitive yet about the girls being right or wrong in my opinion.

Did you refer to me as "jesus" in your response and sign it "god"? or were those just sub-cursive exclamations at my obtuseness? Not everything is straightforward to me.

[Zuiderelle]

118. I said "most likely" because I don't know. My assumption is based on my life experience.

When I've been with partners who are more "butch" than most women, I've experienced far more discrimination than when I've been with partners who "appear" straight.

No matter what, this was discrimination, very plainly. And you saying that someone was "projecting a lesbian discrimination slant to the request to leave" is insulting. I do choose sides, because I've experienced directly the same sort of discrimination these women experienced. A kiss on the cheek? Yeah, it's pretty clear that it's discrimination if someone was offended by THAT.

[elias7]

136. You probably are correct in your assumption

I haven't borne that type of hostility directly, so I don't really know what it feels like. If it has that feel for you, you're likely right...

My main gripe with this situation is that it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, but I haven't heard it quack like a duck. Consider the recent story of that 93 year-old Michigan man who died of freezing cold in his home. Highly charged anger directed at the utility company gave way to a more weighted tone 2 days later when his victim status changed, when he went from this poor and destitute fellow to this wealthy and scroogely frugal guy.

I know the security guards and the local cops from my own job in a hospital and they all pay a toll getting past stereotypes and prejudices. I would hate if they acted in such a fashion as supposedly happened in this case, but I would also hate it if they were falsely accused of acting in such a fashion as part of a counterattacking legal defense.

Quick judgment coupled with strong passion has its destructive side as well.

[skygazer]

50. Why in the world should it be okay to be asked to leave for a kiss on the cheek?

How is that in any way similar to two teenage guys "breaking decorum" which I assume means causing some sort of disturbance? How is a kiss a disturbance?

[elias7]

114. It's not.

It's just not clear what truly happened.

In breaking decorum, I was referring to them sneaking back into the mall, resisting arrest and assaulting a peace officer.

[donco6]

56. "Breaking decorum"?

You've got to be kidding.

A kiss on the cheek hasn't broken "decorum" since . . . well . . . NEVER!

Except when it's between two gays.

[Bluebear]

123. "Breaking decorum" - no, you're not a bigot.

[elias7]

138. Sneaking into a building + resisting arrest + assaulting an officer= Maintaining decorum?

[KamaAina]

36. Every kiss begins with Kay.

Cell Block K, that is. :eyes:

[polmaven]

37. Uh oh!!!

I was in a store with my niece the other day, and when we were leaving to go our separate ways, we gave each other a kiss on the MOUTH...Should we expect our front doors to be knocked down soon with the storm troopers coming to arrest us? We are both adults, and one would not know our relationship without asking.

I guess we would never be allowed in that San Antonio mall again after that lewd public display of affection, huh?

KISSING!!!!!!!! On the MOUTH!!!! Oh no!!! Not THAT!!!!!

What a bunch of homophobic morAns.

[Mari333]

42. hmmmm this happened back in the early 70s in chicago

so hundreds of us showed up for a 'kiss in' at the civic center...straight people, gay, bi..and we all kissed people of the same gender...who could the cops arrest? they arrested no one. and it made a great statement and got a lot of press.
makes me alarmed this is still going on.

[Dorian Gray]

44. Kicking anyone out for kissing on the cheek is ridiculous

[dysfunctional press]

45. they were arrested for criminal tresspass NOT kissing.

please try to be more accurate with your subject lines.

[readmoreoften]

46. This isn't LBN. And they were 'trespassing' only after they were kicked out for being gay.

The only reason it was 'criminal trespass' is because they returned after being kicked out for being gay. The title of the Chronicle article itself doesn't say "women arrested for trespassing".

[dysfunctional press]

70. they weren't kicked out for "being gay", either.

they were kicked out for lewd behaviour, and were arrested when they returned after being kicked out. like it or not, a shopping mall is PRIVATE property, and the owners have a legal right to determine who they allow in/on the property.

sorry. :shrug:

[BirminghamExaminer]

71. is a kiss on the cheek lewd behavior? nt

[dysfunctional press]

76. that's only one side of the story...

and as i said- a shopping mall is private property, and the owners can exclude anyone or any behaviour they choose.

[Eryemil]

105. I only wish they had been an interriacial couple. I wonder how you'd be singing then.

[dysfunctional press]

109. same thing...

if they are asked to leave and escorted out- returning to the mall is considered criminal trespass- it's still private property, after all.

[ferrous wheel]

120. Well, a McDonald's is private property too. Get yourself a franchise and put up a sign saying

"No niggers or queers allowed here" and see how well that argument works.
:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

124. ???

huh? :shrug:

again: they were arrested for CRIMINAL TRESPASS. they had been asked to leave for "lewd behaviour", as would heterosexuals displaying the same behaviour. once they chose to return after being tossed- they were guilty of criminal trespass, and their race or their sexual orientation had nothing to do with it. ANYBODY who returns after being ejected would get the exact same treatment, and be guilty of the same crime.

[ferrous wheel]

131. Horse shit. Criminal trespass is virtually nonexistant as a crime on commercial property.

So you will be putting up that sign...real soon? Hell, you can pick a different business - maybe Cracker Barrel which seems more to the liking of folks like yourself, it seems.

[dysfunctional press]

137. bullshit yourself- criminal trespass is a VERY common charge.

as a former "store detective"- i can tell you that it is used OFTEN to keep people out/off of commercial property.

[Tesha]

129. Important hint: One of the two groups on your proposed sign is a "Protected Class".

The other, in most legal jurisdictions, still isn't.

Tesha

[ferrous wheel]

132. Yes, you're correct; I should have specified a place with sane antidiscrimination laws.

:-)

[Prophet 451]

141. McDonalds is apparently gay-friendly n/t

[ferrous wheel]

143. Perhaps but do they make sure every franchisee is too?

I don't know, I'm asking...

[Prophet 451]

145. I dunno either

They might try but since it's a franchise operation, I don't know how much control they actually have over the franchisees. I know our local one is but YMMV.

[FreeState]

47. They were headed to their car - it was walk through the mall or around it

if you read the article you would see that mentioned as well. They did not re-enter the mall to shop - they were going to their car that was on the other side of the mall.

[dysfunctional press]

69. then they should have walked around it.

the mall is private property, and they had been told to leave and escorted out. once they re-entered, it was criminal trespass, plain and simple.

[Heidi]

54. Did you even read the article? They were threatened with a citation for kissing,

so it's pretty easy to imagine that when they were arrested, it was related to kissing.

“He said, ‘This is a family mall, y'all can't do this,'” she said. “We said, ‘Do what?' He said, ‘Y'all kissed, and if y'all do it again I'm going to write you a citation or I'm going to kick y'all out.'”
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6243685.html

[dysfunctional press]

68. yes- did you?

they were told to leave, and escorted out- after which they came back in. pretty simple stuff really- it's called "criminal trespass".

[Heidi]

74. Do you not get that their rights likely were violated for being told to leave in the first place?

Do you agree that they should have been asked to leave? If so, you should feel comfortable saying so. After all, you're among friends here. :hi:

[dysfunctional press]

77. how so?

a shopping mall is private property, and the owners can exclude anyone they choose.

[Heidi]

82. If they allow it for public use (and they do), they diminish the "private property" argument.

But let's get back to whether you think one lesbian giving another a peck on the cheek is an offense worthy of being thrown out. What do you think?

[dysfunctional press]

85. they can still set rules of conduct for thoser that use it.

and as i already stated- the 'peck on the cheek' is only one party's side of the story. :shrug:

[Heidi]

89. For someone who once had the username, Question All, I'm amazed you're not questioning the "official

version" of this story. Why aren't you? Why are you only questioning these two women's side of the story? *shrug* indeed.

[dysfunctional press]

91. i wasn't questioning the women's side of the story...

i was pointing out that you're trying to pass judgment with only one side of the story.

ultimately, the property owners have a right to set limits on conduct on their property. end of story.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

93. ...

:eyes:

yes, because reading is SO difficult for so many.... :rofl:

[martymar64]

149. So property rights trump human rights?

Or do you just hate fags?

[dysfunctional press]

152. how is criminal trespass a human right?

:shrug:

[martymar64]

154. You just don't get it.

You seem to worship authority and property rights uber alles too much to get it.

[dysfunctional press]

155. get what? the actual FACTS of the incident...?

or the emotional and uninformed hyperbole?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

88. That's intellectually dishonest splitting of hairs.

It's like saying black people at lunch counters were arrested for criminal trespass, and not for being black.

[dysfunctional press]

95. not at all...

they were told to leave and escorted out...when they chose to return, it's criminal trespass. if they had been arrested for the "kissing", THAT would have been wrong. but that isn't why they were arrested.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

107. Yes, and they were asked to leave because they were lesbians.

Which is why it takes breath-taking innanity to pretend that this is anything but the homophobic security guard's fault.

[dysfunctional press]

108. they were asked to leave for violating the mall's policy.

what takes "breath-taking innanity(sic)" was for them to return to the mall once they had been escorted out. had they simply walked to their car and driven to a different mall, no arrest would have taken place.

[Bluebear]

130. I can't believe you are defending this mall's "policy". Oh wait, yes I can.

[dysfunctional press]

140. the policy applies to all people, gay or straight.

i'm not saying that i agree with it- only that they have a right to set the policy they choose.

and isn't why they were arrested anyway- it's why they were escorted out.
returning to a place you've been kicked out of is the act that got them arrested- and it would have happened to straight people who did the same thing.

sorry.

[skygazer]

51. You know, what kills me about ignorant, bigoted shit like this

Is there are probably dozens of people who go through that mall bickering at each other, swearing at each other, fighting with each other. That's fine. But god forbid two people of the same sex share a loving embrace.

Appalling.

[tavalon]

52. Ah Rolling Oaks Mall,

now in my opinion, all malls look pretty much alike and that one certainly did from the inside, but from the outside, it had these spires that made it look muslim or perhaps just like a traveling circus but all white. Still, overall, ugly mall in a repugnant area of a repugnant city in a repugnant state and before you jump on me, I lived 5 miles from Rolling Oaks Mall for 10 years, lived 16 years in that damn city and a quarter of a century in that damn state. phtttt. ptuey, yuck. I hope those kids are able to get out of Texas.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. That mall is about 10 miles from my house, I rarely go there. Apparently not many others do either.

It has too be the least visited mall in San Antonio. A really crappy mall.

[BirminghamExaminer]

72. you should organize a group

of grandmothers to go kiss babies there and see what happens.

[deoxyribonuclease]

87. I remember the parking lot being almost empty every time I drove by on 1604

[SammyWinstonJack]

116. I think the Forum shopping mall in Live Oak probably was the death of

Rolling Oaks Mall. As uncrowded as Rolling Oaks is, they shouldn't risk alienating shoppers. :evilgrin:

[rcrush]

103. Great way to get people to go to a mall no one goes to anymore.

Seriously that part of town is turning into a shithole. I havent been to that side of town in 10 years because nothing is there anymore and all the cops are assholes.

[ProfessorGAC]

53. Geez, I Saw A Guy And Girl Kissing At the BOWLING ALLEY!

I didn't see any cops called in. Sheesh, this is just ridiculous. Don't malls sell Valentine presents? You'd think that would be something they'd want to see, because it might mean people are buying gifts for lovers that nobody really needs!

If i ran that mall, i'd advertise that we would never harass anyone for public displays of affection. Might improve total shopper traffic.

GAC

[Vinca]

55. How did they know the couple was gay? Lots of women kiss each other on the cheek.

And what if they wore shirts that said, "We're gay?" Aren't they allowed to shop? Kick them out if they strip down in the lobby and have wild, lesbian sex, but otherwise, I'm smelling a lawsuit.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

60. Started Off Being Pissed And Finding It Disgraceful But By The End Of The Article I'm No Longer Sure

I still think it's a ridiculous policy, but you're definitely exaggerating the hell out of this story in your OP. They were warned, they intentionally ignored the warning, got caught, got asked to leave, was defiant with that too and came back in, got caught again, then got confrontational. Wouldn't exactly call them innocent victims here...

[leftynyc]

63. Yes, they were innnocent victims

if the policy is only to harass gays. I hope dozens of hetero couples test out that theory. I understand why they got angry if they felt they were being discrimnated against.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

64. No, They Weren't Innocent Victims.

They weren't even close.

Now granted, they very well might've been discriminated against in their being targeted initially though we don't know for sure, but that only resulted in being asked to stop. Not really the end of the world.

But then they refused to stop, got caught, got kicked out after being warned, came back in, got caught again, got confrontational, and then got arrested. No, they weren't close to being innocent.

[leftynyc]

66. They weren't asked to stop

They were asked to leave. I doubt very much that any hetero couples are going to be testifying the same has happened to them. I agree they shouldn't have gone back as that's what got them arrested. If they did that to prove a point, I say let them have their day in court.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

67. Yes They Were Asked To Stop. Did You Even Read The Friggin Article?

Maybe you should prior to responding; lest you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.

snip
Garcia said that after her girlfriend gave her a kiss on the cheek, the officers approached them and warned them to stop.

“He said, ‘This is a family mall, y'all can't do this,'” she said. “We said, ‘Do what?' He said, ‘Y'all kissed, and if y'all do it again I'm going to write you a citation or I'm going to kick y'all out.'”

snip
Both Garcia and Pardue agree the incident escalated after that.

Pardue said the women complied briefly with the officer's request, but once the officers began walking away, they continued to engage in an “activity that was not appropriate for the public.”

She said that at that point, the officers told the women to leave.

[readmoreoften]

94. Typical from you. Everything that doesn't effect your bitter little life is "overblown"

I suppose it's a case of "poutrage" right? Someone like you will always side with the police. I'll give you this, though, you're not a disruptor. You're just generally nasty and cold to everyone and you always side with authority no matter what, usually in the name of false 'reason'.

Basically, you're a thug with a security guard mentality, so I'm not surprised that you'd side with them with no other information. And I'm a lesbian who has watched so much discrimination from people like you that it makes me sick. So who'd guess that you'd side with the cops unless there was an affidavit from Obama himself that the women were "in the right" and got on their knees and begged for mercy.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

99. ROFLMAO!!!!!

Such knee jerk nonsense. Care to respond with anything actually contextual to my reply or you just want to cop-out with the empty ad hominems?

And discrimination from people like me? OH THAT'S RICH!!!!! Do you enjoy going around just ignorantly labeling people as discriminatory for no reason whatsoever? Could you be any more silly?

You totally exaggerated what happened in your OP. Not only is it questionable that they were targeted intentionally due to their being lesbians, but it is also obvious that they were no innocent victims in how this played out. They were far more at fault than the security guard in the end of it all, based on their defiance and behavior. Deal with it. :hi:

[Bluebear]

127. +1

[LibertyLover]

65. I loved this line from the article -

"Danielle Pardue, the mall's marketing director, denies the women's claims of discrimination and said security officers would evict anyone found kissing in the mall, regardless of sexual orientation."

So, Ms. Pardue, let me see if I understand you correctly: Say I were to visit your mall with my 6 year old daughter and gave her a kiss because, oh I don't know, I wanted to let her know that I was happy that she was my daughter or she needed the quick reassurance that young children do that mommy loved her and one of your goons, oops, I mean security officers of course, saw me, I would be subject to eviction from the premises? Uh huh, I thought as much. Or what about if I were to visit your mall with my husband and he buys me (or I buy him) something and we exchange a kiss such as this couple did to express our pleasure and thanks? Yeah, that's what I thought. Or how about this scenario: I and my husband visit your mall, meet some friends and we women, as women friends will often do, exchange kisses to say hello and good-bye? Right, I get it. Probably no eviction because in all the examples I've given we are most likely heterosexual in orientation.

How sad that in the 21st century some people are still not allowed to express simple affection and love because of archaic beliefs of others.

I wish this couple well in whatever they choose to do regarding their arrest, but I suspect in the end they will not get much.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

75. So when is the "Kiss-In" scheduled?

I wish I could make it.

[Shardik]

81. That's just wrong.

I share your anger.

[ismnotwasm]

83. My youngest daughter is straight

A hippie, though. With all the tattoos, piercings, dreads (actually she just chopped the dreads)layering non-fashion clothes. Man, I love that kid.

For fun and protest, She "married" a another young women, (in a non legal, but big celebration-ok, a big-ass party) one she calls "my wife". This was way before before Prop 8. If she was arrested for a public display of affection on a presumption of her sexuality, the authorities would be wrong now wouldn't they?

For this to be legal-- and not outright hateful bigotry-- they'd have to arrest or reprimind or kick out, every spit swapping male/female couple in the mall. In fact, they'd probably have to hire a special security squad to get it done.

And as a mother of four, thankfully ALL are grown now, I can guarantee there were several spit-swapping straight couples. One only has to glance around.

This is completely appalling, completely wrong and that man should be fired at the very least. I hope the ACLU sues the mall and him.

[Prophet 451]

142. Your daughter rocks n/t

[Heidi]

84. That mall wouldn't have any visitors in most of Europe. They'd have thrown all us smoochers out!

A kiss on the cheek (THREE TIMES) is customary here among: women-women, women-men, men-men. I realize it's a mall in the south, but I predict (and hope) that these women will win if they get enough progressive support to take this thing as far as they need to. In terms of what the public sees, what's the difference between a woman giving her lover a peck on the cheek in public and me giving my sister or one of my close female friends a peck on the cheek in public? NOTHING.

If these women had a legal defense fund, I'd happily contribute $100. There's absolutely no sense in this sort of horse-scheisse.

[Love Bug]

86. OMG!!!!! CALL OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD!!!!!

(at least the ones who aren't in Iraq)

:sarcasm:

Geeze-louise, don't these folks have anything better to worry about? A kiss on the cheek is hardly on the same level as two people humpin' and bumpin'.

[boomerbust]

90. I Kissed A Girl

And I Liked It!!!:hi:

[nichomachus]

97. Sounds like it's time for a "kiss in" in San Antonio

Hundreds of people kissing -- mall security couldn't handle it -- and I would just love to hear the 911 tapes.

911: 911 what is your emergency?

Mall cop: People are kissing.

911: Killing?

Mall cop: No, kissing.

911: Well, what is the emergency?

Mall cop: I just told you, they're kissing.

911: Why is that an emergency?

Mall cop: We don't allow people to kiss.

911: You don't allow people to kiss?

Mall cop: That's right.

911: Well, that's just stupid.

Mall cop: You need to send the Swat team right away.

911: For people kissing?

Mall cop: Yes.

911: Go kiss yourself.

[Sandrine for you]

98. really like it lol

911: 911 what is your emergency?

Mall cop: People are kissing.

911: Killing?

Mall cop: No, kissing.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rcrush]

102. Theres your problem. Bexar County Sherriff's department arrested them.

Bexar County Sherriffs are the most useless fuckers around. Almost as bad as SAPD but SAPD is corrupt Bexar County Sherriffs are just lazy and stupid.

[martymar64]

150. You just described 99.99999999% of all cops in Amerikkka

The Universal Police motto, "To harass and oppress"

18750

[GinaMaria]

112. How about a kiss in?

people from all over go to this mall and kiss each other on the cheeks. Parents kiss kids, friends kiss each other, kids kiss grandparents, lovers kiss each other. Declare one happy kiss day including a kissing booth outside the mall to raise money for groups that promote tolerance. This could be really fun and harmonious.

[ddeclue]

115. WTF! Someone needs to get the ACLU on the phone ASAP...

that's ridiculous....does San Antonio operate under the Taliban or what?

:eyes:

[Tesha]

119. The ACLU would probably only want to get involved if the women *DIDN'T* assault the police officer.

And yes, I understand that the police routinely charge "the holy
trinity" in cases like this:

o "Disobeying" the orders of a police officer,

o "Resisting Arrest", and

o "Assault" on a police officer, even if it's your nose assaulting his fist.

But the mall security videotapes will probably tell the tale, ehh? There
probably won't be much debate on the facts of what actually happened,
even if DUers are taking very partisan attitudes.

Tesha

[ddeclue]

148. Roll tape then...

here in Orlando a cop shoved a woman down a flight of stairs in a night club and claimed she assaulted him.. tape shows otherwise... now OPD is being sued.

Doug D.

[Blue_Tires]

117. ttt

[TWiley]

122. The Europeans slobber all over each other as a greeting.

[madinmaryland]

125. I don't like public displays of affection (for anyone), but should it be illegal?

No Fucking way.

[JFN1]

128. A little hot-cheek-kissing-action

always scares the norms...

[TheWraith]

133. There are people who hate public displays of affection? What the fuck is their problem?

Seriously.

Anyway, it's Texas. San Antonio may be better than most of the rest of the state, but it's still Texas.

[martymar64]

151. San Antonio is a RW shithole

Forget the Alamo.

[bonito]

134. Cheney gives Israel a blow job in front of the world and walks

geeeesh.

[Prophet 451]

144. That's just fucking depressing

People kiss, it happens. If they were dry-humping or something, I can see why there would be a need to kick them out but a kiss?

And yeah, the mall might have the legal right to kick out anyone they want to. Doesn't stop them being dicks for excercising that right this way.

[LuckyTheDog]

146. But, but, but...

What if they WERE topless and having sex right there in the mall?

Would you call me and let me know the address so that I could come right over?

:silly:

P.S. Of course the charges are complete bullshit.

[marshall]

147. They should tell their story on Howard Stern

He would love to give them a platform.

[donco6]

153. UPDATE: More details in Huffpo

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/6243685.html