What I Never Understood About The "DTV" Coupon Program Is That.....

[global1]

a great deal of money was spent on the coupons that for all intents and purposes look like credit cards. They actually have the hologram security tags embedded in them. Along with having to get those made - they had to build a program to limit how many coupons one could get. They had to print up the letter that these coupon credit cards were attached to and then they had to spend postage on mailing all of these out. And I'm sure that they had to hire a bunch of people to administer and run this program on a day to day basis - and probably at high wages. The seal on the coupon is the United States of America - Department of Commerce.

WHY?

Why was that all necessary? Why couldn't they have just charged $20 for these converter boxes rather than having them priced at $60. Why did one need a coupon in the first place? Why couldn't you just go into any Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc and buy one for $20. Wouldn't that have been easier and cheaper? Why did they make people jump through hoops to get coupons?

Best Buy even screwed it up. When we purchased a converter box they charged sales tax on the full $60 instead of the $20 we doled out. Two weeks later I got a refund check for the overcharge from them with an apology.

Wouldn't all of this have been easier and less expensive to the taxpayers if they would have simplified this whole thing?

Is there any explanation why they went overboard on this whole campaign?

[SoCalNative]

1. Sales tax

is always computed and charged on the full value/price of the item before any discounts are taken.

[global1]

3. Is That A California Thing?......

I gather by your handle you are from Southern California. Here in Illinois it is charged on the actual dollars paid after discounts.

[SoCalNative]

5. I don't know if it's JUST a California thing

but even if something is given free we still have to pay the sales tax...i.e. cell phones that are free with instant rebates, etc.

[lizziegrace]

6. I bought two boxes at a Best Buy in Wisconsin

a few weeks later, I got a letter and a refund check for $3 for overcharging sales tax.

[conscious evolution]

24. Georgia does it also.

Taxed on full value before discount.

[terisan]

9. Federal Government exemption comes into play and customer only pays tax on amt over $40.

[RB TexLa]

2. They could have just given the manufacturers the rebate to make them.

Perhaps there would have been some issues with estimating how many were needed but couldn't have been worse than what happened with the coupons.

[cboy4]

4. They did it for probably the same reason the cell phone

companies do those rebates, and that's that a lot of people won't bother with signing up for the coupons and sending in rebate paperwork, with receipts and box bar codes, etc.

That means the government would save a lot of money.

It seems kind of idiotic that they just couldn't provide the boxes to everyone who needs them if they're able to print up all of that bailout money.

Part of the problem is too many people who did not need coupons sent for them. I saw on the news one Best Buy salesman said lots of people with cable and satellite TV were coming in with coupons for converter boxes that they didn't need.

[global1]

7. I Heard That Some Cable And Satellite Customers Are Concerned That They Will .....

lose their job and have to cut back on expenses. One of the first areas to cut is cable or satellite TV. So these people were buying converter boxes as a fall back position should they have to get rid of the frills.

[Raine]

18. How does he know they don't need the coupon

for TVs??? Lots of people myself included have cable but I have TVs that aren't attached to the cable and I need the converter box for those and was entitled to the coupon for them. The coupon program knew that some would use the coupon for TVs not attached to satellite or cable, right on the form they ask the question if you had TVs not attached to satellite or cable and allowed you the coupon.

[cboy4]

20. No he said people were coming in with coupons for their

livingroom television that are attached to cable tv or satellite tv.

The implication was that the people did not need the converter boxes, period.

And they said, "Oh, I didn't know."

[Raine]

21. Oh, thanks for the clarification...

:hi:

[cboy4]

22. Of course!

:hi:

[terisan]

8. I think it is the downside of big government. The simplest solution is not valued

I have read that they expect the price on converter boxes to drop after to about $20 after the coupons reach their final expiration date,

[rvablue]

10. I'm no expert, but on the intuition level, something about this whole conversion

reeks of something much more....uh, I don't know....sinister.

I claim right now that the whole lot of us are going to look back in 10-20 years and wonder why none of us saw it coming...I don't know what....but why was it so important for us to have a clearer picture on our sets?

I think it was a reason to get us all to pay for TV.

That is my layman theorie. I don't know anything about anything on this matter. But it smells of something much more than just, Oh-look-how-pretty-the-picture-is.

[BuelahWitch]

14. Of course that's what it is

I just feel bad for the people who will also have to buy new, expensive antennaes because the boxes won't be able to get a signal at all. Or they'll be forced into the world of overpriced cable...

[DKRC]

17. Still haven't figured out how to make me pay

since we're not doing this. Haven't taken cable for years, & not buying anything to keep a TV signal.

(Cute pic btw.)

[BuelahWitch]

23. Neither am I

I disconnected my cable last year. It wasn't worth it to pay $25 a month for their "basic only" package of local channels. As my apartment complex has no antennae I haven't seen broadcast television on my TV since last Feb. I do feel for the people who are poor or elderly and really enjoy their TV. This is going to devastate them.

[rvablue]

25. I'm saving that LOL -- totally hilarious! n/t

[onenote]

16. I claim right now that you're seeing ghosts where there aren't any

Let's check back in with each other in 10-20 years to see who is right.

And if they wanted everyone to get pay tv, why would they spend a billion and a half dollars on a program to preserve free over the air tv?

[ProgrezivIndie]

11. it certainly could have been a lot simpler, for example

the government could have issued exclusive contracts to U.S. Companies, to manufacture (in the U.S.) and distribute those boxes to anyone who signed-up for them at DTV.GOV

However; such a solution would have been wrought with waste, eh (as if this whole MANDATED DTV transition isn't a complete waste)? ANALOG TV (based upon NTSC broadcast signals) are completely sufficient. The problem was that ANALOG TVS had been perfected, would last at least a couple of decades, and the TV manufacturers had lost a lucrative market. Couple that with digital computer technology, along with and a big push (in the pockets) of government decision makers... and voila, we got a MANDATE for something which is completely unnecessary. IOW: NTSC broadcasts could have continued indefinitely... while at the same time those who wanted DIGITAL could have gotten it as well (mostly via IP TV, at that)! For example: anyone can sign-up to download/stream full length movies... and many NETWORKS currently make their programs available via their websites.

Perfection of ANALOG TV took decades... does anyone recall B&W only programming... sets that constantly were subject to horizontal & vertical loss of SYNC... when color came along, sets that were constantly losing SYNC with "color" and "tint" and convergence always getting out of alignment? Those problems are things of the past, and have been for more than a decade (or two).

Today's DIGITAL CRAP is constantly losing sync, regardless of the source (DVD, CABLE/SATELLITE TV, IP streaming, etc.). It will be decades BEFORE they get this stuff perfected. What's more? Well, digital CHANNELS can be configured (broadcast) at either SIX (of standard definition) or ONE (of high definition). So... while Americans are being "reeled in" to go out and buy 50" HDTVs... owners of the CHANNELS are thinking to themselves: yea! we suckered them again! (IOW: if they can get "x" numbers of dollars, for commercials on their high def. channel... imagine them getting SIX TIMES that, for each of their six standard def. channels (and remember... you heard it here first... it will happen just as sure as GREED is what drives human beings who are "in control")!

The above aside... some here might be interested in another of my posts--regarding us just saying NO to the greedy bastards? If so http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3723377&mesg_id=3723641">you'll find it here

[hlthe2b]

12. i LOVE how the best rated units have gone up dramatically...

If you can find them at all... For example the highly rated Zenith DTT 901 which was around $50 a few months ago. Now, if you can find it anywhere, it is at least $68 plus shipping. So, all of a sudden that "coupon" doesn't seem like such a great deal just so I can occasionally watch tv on my LCD monitor, which is currently the only tv in the house.

I wonder if companies will gear up again to produce a few more months worth of units. Face it, after the change over, no one is going to be buying these units... Digital tuner flat screen tvs will continue to come down in price, so more will opt not to buy a converter box.

[Raine]

19. and even the "best" are not

that great. I got a Zenith that worked for awhile but then the thing quit and is now totally dead within a couple of months of getting it. :argh: I'm going to have pack it up and send it off to them to repair or replace.

[LiberalHeart]

13. Beyond the coupon/box problems, there's the reception problem.

Imagine how people are gonna react when they find out the boxes do not ensure they'll get a reliable signal. In fact, digital signals that aren't delivered via a cable provider are extremely iffy. Just a change in the weather or a truck driving past or a building that's taller than your house can mess up reception, even if you live near a tower.

I don't see how the 4 month delay will help anything. The switch has been promoted for two years at least, and heavily in the past year. There's still going to be a lot of people without TV in four months just due to the reception issues. It's gonna be a mess.

[canetoad]

15. Been there

Live in a hilly area, couldn't received the UHF multicultural channel on analogue and couple of commercials were snowy. Got a good quality converter and still couldn't get SBS and the snowy ones just blacked out completely.

Did me a favour really. I just decided to give up watching TV.

edit; typo

[KharmaTrain]

26. Manufacturers Fell Asleep At The Switch

The digital transition actually began in 1999...the transition date was known for years. TV stations built brand new facilities...some of them hit the airwaves 5 years ago. For years, the only way you could get a digital reciever/tuner was by purchasing a $3,000 or more wide screen...real nice money for the manufacturers. It wasn't until the past year that they started to offer digital tuners in smaller models.

The converter boxes are a joke. Most have poor tuner sections that need a very strong signal to stabilize on. This usually requires getting an amplified antenna and then making sure it is aimed directly at the transmitters. I had to do this for my mother-in-law to get solid reception...and she lives 10 miles from the transmitters. In their defense, many digital stations are running at lower power than they will once the analog signals go away...thus the delay only continues that problem.

This actually makes it a bigger mess as some stations will still go ahead with the change in a couple weeks and people will scramble to find their favorite shows...then scramble again in June. Good intentions gone bad.

Cheers...

[dkofos]

27. Someone had to make a profit off of this freebee.