Howard Zinn responds to MoveOn

[MaggieSwanson]

"I'm disappointed in MoveOn. We are not politicians, we are citizens. Let the politicians advocate half-way measures if they choose, but only after they have felt the full force of citizens who speak for what is right, not what is winnable in a shameful timorous Congress. Timetables for withdrawal are not only morally reprehensible in the case of a brutal occupation (would you give a thug who invaded your house, smashed things up, and terrorized your children a timetable for withdrawal?) but logically nonsensical. If our troops are preventing civil war, helping people, controlling violence, then why withdraw at all? If they are in fact doing the opposite -- provoking civil war, hurting people, perpetuating violence -- they should withdraw as quickly as ships and planes can carry them home. If Congress thinks it must compromise, let it. But we should not encourage that. We should speak our minds fully, boldly and say what is right, whatever they decide to do."


Howard Zinn
3/23/07

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17397.htm

EDIT: I see, belatedly, that babylonsister has already posted another part of this article. I'm going to go over to her thread on the Greatest page: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=270711&mesg_id=270711

:patriot: babylonsister & Howard Zinn!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. "..a shameful timorous congress" pretty much sums it up.

I couldn't agree more with Howard Zinn.

[MaggieSwanson]

3. friend,

your posts, especially over the past day or so, have been good for my soul. Thanks for being here.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. And, thanks to you, for the same reason.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. K&R

[helderheid]

4. to the greatest with you

[JitterbugPerfume]

5. Howard Zinn

is a voice of sanity

:patriot:

[Eric J in MN]

6. Zinn is right.

After reading the MoveOn email, I was momentarily, barely persuaded that they should deal in the politics of the possible.

But after reading Zinn's statement, I've decided it's better if outside advocacy groups say what they really want in legislation instead of rallying behind mediocre legislation.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

7. He's disappointed in MoveOn? I'm disappointed in Zinn.

He claims that "our troops" are "provoking civil war". I'd guess he hasn't talked to many of "our troops", most of whom would rather not be there at all. And they're not so much provoking a civil war, as they are trying to stay alive while following orders, normal soldier stuff.

The civil war is partly happening, with or without us, since we allowed the Iraqis to hang the only person who seemed to be able to keep a lid on the place.

In another view, it's not a civil war, but a proxy war, fed by Syria and Saudi on the one hand and Iran on the other.

When we pull out, the vacuum might invite fighters from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, and Turkey to come in and grab as much land (oil, farmland, people) as they can, as fast as they can.

By staying there, all our troops can accomplish is to delay that inevitable chaos. If the chaos is inevitable, that's a good reason to get out now, let it sort itself out sooner, with less additional loss of American life.

But when Zinn says that the fault is with our troops, he's just dredging up the old Anti-Vietnam-War hatred against the soldiers.

[MaggieSwanson]

8. Even after several re-reads, I fail to see

where Zinn blames the troops.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

16. oops, my bad. I mis-read it.

"If they are in fact doing the opposite -- provoking civil war,..."

I missed the "If"

Big difference.

Regards.

[Eric J in MN]

9. If he had written "the presence of our troops"

...instead of "our troops," would you have found that less offensive?

He's talking about US policy, not the performance of individuals.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. That makes a big difference

To me, he blame rests in D.C. All who felt it necessary to use our military to "oversee" the administration of Iraq. That includes GHWB, WJC, and GWB. Any one of them could have removed us from involvement over the past 16 years.

[mike_c]

10. Zinn is spot on....

The Pelosi supplemental bill is shameful. I hope the republicans succeed in defeating it.

[5X]

11. K and R because I agree with Zinn and Kucinich in this one. n/t

[loudsue]

12. Well said, Mr. Zinn! Yet again, the voice of truth.

:kick:

[Solly Mack]

13. Precisely

[bbgrunt]

15. this shows exactly how progressives and liberals are

co-opted by their own gatekeepers. I feel an attack of Clinton remorse coming on,excuse me while I go lie down.