I hope everybody knows what just happened with the "buy American" part of the bill..

[Joanne98]

They didn't "save" it, they watered it down. The reason they are giving is our so-called "trade agreements".

They did this because starting at Davos, all our so-called allies whined about it. Then newspaper articles started showing up squawking "trade war".. Then Obama started saying "compliance with our treaties"..

This is the first real proof we have that it is ILLEGAL to create jobs in our own country with our own tax money!

They say they "saved" it but I'm doubtful. The world now knows that our politicians will cave to pressure and they won't defend their own citizens. They will attack the weakened bill from behind closed doors and they will win.

The "stimulus" bill is being stripped of anything stimulating. Most of the infrastructure parts have been taken out and replaced with TAX CUTS! The republicans even had the nerve to go on TV and complain that the infrastructure had been taken out. The media let them do that and never explained that they were the ones who got it taken out. The fucking media just sat there and let them LIE!

So what do we have now? TARP 2 money for banks with almost no demands. Are we getting any preferred stocks for collateral? Are we getting interest? Are we getting it in writing? What we are getting is capping CEO pay at 500,000$. Of course they will just supplement it with options. HAHA!

We just kicked ass and won an election. We got everything but ONE Senate seat and we're still getting screwed.

I have no idea what to do now but getting told what to do by WTO overlords is NOT acceptable.

IMO we just wasted 900 billion dollars.

As far as I'm concerned they can just throw the bill in the trash!

Sorry. I had to say that!

[Postman]

1. It's because the WTO has sovereignty over our existence...

The US should pull out of the WTO

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

2. I don't want our money stimulating another nation's economy like that.

And what right do they have to demand that our government spend on them? If situations were reversed they wouldn't be spending on us.

This will set our recovery back significantly, and when it does the media and right wingers will swarm Obama and repeat their lie like a mantra: Tax cuts stimulate economies.

Spineless dogs.

[nc4bo]

8. Wait, it's only magic money after all. We'll be creating money out of thin air

only to share this magic insta-money with the world? I thought this entire point of the stimulus is to jump start our economy, not the global economy.

And before anyone gets all uptight, American products and manufacturers first - if we can't get all of the products we need internally, then and ONLY then should we seek help from the outside.

I thought this was an American stimulus package not a global one.

It doesn't sound quite right and I just don't get it.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

9. But that's OUR magic money.

Let the other countries fiat up their own.

[dmr]

27. But our children and their grandchildren's children will be paying for it

in more ways than one, sadly - that is of course if we even last that long.

[MadHound]

3. Welcome to the two party/same corporate master system of government

All that's changed is we have a good cop instead of a bad cop.

[ixion]

4. I agree... the so-called 'stimulus' bill is just another handout to Big Industry

the people who pay that money, the taxpayers, will receive nothing but the shaft, as usual.

[patrice]

5. And it was the very same anti One-world-order, UN Hating m-f-ers who brought it down on our heads by

means of their "love" of clumps of cells in the uteruses of women they never have and never will ever meet.

[Joanne98]

6. And you know what's even more infuriating? All our so-called allies

Are creating their own stimulus packages BUT THEIRS are protecting their jobs and companies. The Chinese are spending a trillion JUST in their own country.

EVERYBODY on Earth can spend tax money on their own people but US!

Except for feeding the banking vampires, their stimulus packages are doing exactly what they just made US take out!

I've totally had it!

[pokercat999]

7. Prepare for the coming nightmare as best you can.

D E P R E S S I O N

The deepest world wide depression is on the way, I suggest you prepare as best you can.

I've managed to insulate my family as much as possible with limited resources and while still trying to live a "normal" life. Normal may lose it's meaning in the near future.

I so hope I am completely wrong but it doesn't look good.

[SammyWinstonJack]

10. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

x(




I think if you give them a seat at the table, they'll eat all the food

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. delete

posted in the wrong place

[pampango]

12. Why would we negotiate agreements with other countries, if we are going to whine when

the they "force" us to live up to our commitments?. If we agreed with other countries to allow bidding on each others' government projects, I am not surprised that Obama has stated that countries which we have these agreements with will be allowed to bid on the stimulus projects.

Just because a Swiss construction company can submit a bid on a particular American project doesn't mean that they will win the bid since they have to bring everything over from several thousands of miles away. The prospect of their bid, however, might keep American companies from inflating their bids, so that we end up getting more projects done with the stimulus money.

Any international organization we join (WTO, UN) or agreement we sign (NAFTA, Kyoto - hopefully) involves us giving up some "sovereignty" to achieve some goal that we think is worth what we gave up. Otherwise we wouldn't join in the first place. Those international bodies and agreements require us to do things we might not want to do in exchange for other countries doing things that they would not otherwise do.

Obama is not going to be able to pursue a foreign policy based on diplomacy, negotiations and agreements, if we can't be trusted to live up to the commitments that we make. Why would Iran or North Korea or parties in the Middle East agree to do things we want them to, if we are not going to uphold our part of any agreement?

If we want to withdraw from the WTO, the UN, NAFTA, or Kyoto (well, we would have to join it first), there are procedures to follow. Then other countries would not expect us to comply with the rules of organization that we don't belong to.

[Schema Thing]

14. thanks for the sanity

[RB TexLa]

19. Sadly, many here look at treaties in the same way Bush looked at the Geneva Treaty.

[roody]

22. Just withdraw from WTO and NAFTA.

[Waiting For Everyman]

25. You're right, roody. If this is how it is, we need to push to end the treaties altogether.

They are just simply toxic and unmanageable.

Maybe it's time for a for-real Labor Party. (Not the joke version like Britain has.)

[humblebum]

13. It's called "globalism" and they only want us

to think that we have very much control over anything.

[OregonBlue]

15. AFL-CIO president said last night on the News Hour that France has provisions that all spending on

Water, Electrical Grid, Sewers, Roads in their stimulus are buy French. We can do the same, we can designate which portions of the money will get buy American restrictions.

[OhioChick]

16. Agreed and well said, Joanne. n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Good! That was a fucking stupid provision anyway

protectionism and stoking the fires of a trade war are not smart things to be doing in the midst of economic crisis.

[Two Americas]

28. yeah

We need more of the things that got us into this mess.

That would be the smart thing in the midst of economic crisis.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. Well, it's a step in the right direction, at any rate.

The last thing the world needs right now is another Hawley-Smoot.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

20. first this, then they toss health insurance for the unemployed,

i am very disappointed in my party

[slipslidingaway]

21. PBS - 'Buy American' Clause in Stimulus Sparks Controversy

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/jan-june09/buyamerican_02-04.html

"Foreign governments are outraged over a provision of the stimulus bill requiring that any manufactured goods used in public works projects connected with stimulus money come from American suppliers. Experts mull the dispute..."

[depakid]

23. Better and more logical to deal with the trade agreements themselves

as a separate matter.

Starting with NAFTA.

[Waiting For Everyman]

24. I agree, Joanne98.

This won't change the jobs picture, or increase our manufacturing. Outsourcing can be done even on local building projects simply by subcontracting them. That's happening already. And no preference for our concrete and steel - that equals "worthless". It's nothing but another big giveaway.

Can't wait to see what these geniuses do for foreclosures, next. (Zip, no doubt.)

[vssmith]

26. The "stimulus" bill is being stripped of anything stimulating

Are you talking about the condoms? :evilgrin:

[xchrom]

29. recommend