WI teacher suspended after posting Facebook photo of her with a gun

[Goblinmonger]

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/39146772.html

I don't even know what to say.

[Pavulon]

1. That it some stupid shit

unless she broke a law or the photo constituted a threat the morons who suspended her owe a public apology.

[NOW tense]

2. I didn't know

teachers were not allowed to have guns.

[Orrex]

3. Was she doing something explicitly lewd with it?

If not, I don't see the problem with posting it.

:shrug:

[Goblinmonger]

5. From the radio report I read

on my commute to school this morning, she was pointing it at the camera. Maybe she was naked.

[tinymontgomery]

65. Not to be an ass

but how did you read a radio report? That's a trick I would like to learn.

:toast:

[Goblinmonger]

72. Touche

Posting quickly during my prep while grading quizzes doesn't lead to well edited posts.

Have a good one.

[Judi Lynn]

183. Here's the photo:

[Kaleva]

209. I see a red spot inside a box. Seems innocent enough to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

236. LOL!

[cobalt1999]

4. I hope they also suspend any teacher with a photo of a swimming pool too.

Since the parents were concerned & swimming pools kill more children each year than guns.

[Redneck Socialist]

6. Zero tolerance...

'Cause it's not guns that kill people, it's pictures of people with guns that kill people.

[nebenaube]

12. is there not a picture of Sarah Palin doing the same thing with a assault rifle? n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

134. And thankfully she is NOT a teacher

LOL

[NeedleCast]

169. No, instead she's in a postion that influces far more people

than most teachers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

172. At least she isn't tenured

[NeedleCast]

203. Hehe, True...thank dog

[Donnachaidh]

7. she sounds like a dumbass

Oh yeah, post a picture of yourself pointing a gun AT the camera, on a public board. THEN remove the photo and post a comment *She's not interested in a controversy* - DUH, stupid!

As a parent I wouldn't want someone this foolish anywhere near my kid. Not even as a lunch lady.

[Goblinmonger]

11. So what else can't teachers do?

You seem to have the list. How, in any fashion, does this impact what she does in the classroom and with kids? I would understand if it were a picture of her pointing a gun at a kid or the picture was taken in her classroom or something, but I thought we still had first and second amendment rights EVEN WHEN we decided to become teachers.

Perhaps she let students be friends on Facebook. That would open a whole new discussion, but we don't know that. I, personally, don't friend current students and my settings are so that only friends can see what I post (not friends of friends, etc) so that no current student has access to what I post. Certainly that should mean that I retain at least SOME of my rights.

[marshall]

182. Rules for teachers in 1915

1. You will not marry during the term of your contract.

2. You are not to keep company with men.

3. You must be home between the hours of 8 p.m. and 6 a.m. unless attending a school function.

4. You may not loiter downtown in ice cream stores.

5. You may not travel beyond city limits unless you have the permission of the chairman of the board.

6. You may not ride in a carriage or automobile with any man unless he is your father or brother.

7. You may not smoke cigarettes.

8. You may not dress in bright colors.

9. You may under no circumstances dye your hair.

10. You must wear at least two petticoats.

11. Your dresses must not be any shorter than two inches above the ankle.

12. To keep the school room neat and clean, you must:

sweep the floor at least once daily
scrub the floor at least once a week with hot, soapy water
clean the blackboards at least once a day
start the fire at 7 a.m. so the room will be warm by 8 a.m.

[TommyO]

13. The controversy comes from those who view all guns as bad

not the original posting of the pic on Facebook.

[madmom]

14. My daughter was studying art in school, part of which is photography. She has a pic of

a gun aimed at the camera showing that perspective (most people don't see). It is very clearly focused on the gun with the background (person holding the gun) not in focus. She won accolades for the pic.I see nothing wrong it. Some one has their bloomers in a bunch over nothing.

[Deep13]

44. Yup, she's a "psycho" too.

You had better check the crawl space for bodies.

:eyes:

[Kaleva]

8. Students used to be able to bring their guns to school

This was when I was very young but I remember some of the older boys getting on the bus with their guns during bird or deer hunting season. They had to show the bus driver the weapon was unloaded and when we got to school, they'd give the gun to the principal who kept them in his office until school was out.

[MadHound]

9. The teachers' lack of privacy strikes once again

Teachers are held to a different standard than other professions. People freak out over seeing little Johnny's teacher purchasing a fifth. Teachers are supposed to be pure as the driven snow.

[BuelahWitch]

20. Not necessarily

Any industry might get squeamish seeing an employee "expressing themselves" by pointing a gun at a camera. When you post stuff on Facebook or MySpace you have to be prepared for the fact that somebody who knows you (like an employer or prospective employer) will see it and not like what they see. It was stupid for her to post that as a profile photo. Anyone can see a profile photo on those sites, if if the profile itself is private.

[Goblinmonger]

25. I don't know that it was a profile pic

Nothing I have read says that, though that is what I would guess it is, too.

[BuelahWitch]

26. The video from post 16 said it was a profile picture

http://www.wkowtv.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=3408131&h1=Teacher%20removed%20from%20classroom&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=115067&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=65648858

[proud2BlibKansan]

185. "One of her colleagues called attention to the photo"

Damn! Teachers are such fucking tattle tales.

[Occulus]

55. So "any industry" can limit expression of our Constitutional rights

when we are not "on the clock"?

What the hell is that?

[BuelahWitch]

62. How is posting a photo that threatens someone a "Constitutional Right"?

[Goblinmonger]

68. Whom did she threaten, exactly? n/t

[Dr. Strange]

84. The pearl clutchers

Made them wet themselves, she did.

[derby378]

123. And the Doctor wins a cigar...

Any chance we could talk Russ Feingold into speaking up on her behalf?

[BuelahWitch]

126. Obviously someone in a position to suspend her

Why don't you ask them?

[ferrous wheel]

87. How the hell can a photo threaten someone?

That's the dumbest thing I've read in years.

[NeedleCast]

135. Stick around for awhile

it wont be...

[tammywammy]

173. LOL!

Ain't that the truth. :rofl:

[NeedleCast]

108. Authoritarians abound

especially so today it would seem.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. And those of us who are not pure as the driven snow

have way more fun:)

[lumberjack_jeff]

59. I know! I complained about the lack of privacy on my facebook page too! n/t

[Vickers]

10. Which law did that break again?

:shrug:

[ProfessorGAC]

15. The Law Of Zero Tolerance For Everything Someone Else. . .

. . .does that we don't like.
GAC

[hfojvt]

50. "The world is cold. It's cruel. It's dirty.

And it's full of people who hate you and are mean to you just because you are different." Tracy Ullman

[ProfessorGAC]

136. I Wish I Had Remembered That Line

Good One!

[proud2BlibKansan]

187. The clause in her contract that told her to be an upstanding role model for kids

I guess most of the people posting in this thread are not aware of the morals clause in teachers' contracts.

[ferrous wheel]

221. Threatening a camera with a gun is immoral?

Oh, it's Kansas...never mind.
'

[proud2BlibKansan]

222. Actually she is in Wisconsin

Nice try at slamming Kansas though :crazy:

[ferrous wheel]

223. Mox nix as they say in the vernacular.

I can't ever think of Kansas without Fred Phelps intruding on my consciousness.
:grr:

[proud2BlibKansan]

225. Cause we all know everyone in Kansas is just like Fred

:crazy:

What other states do you hate?

[ferrous wheel]

228. Alabama, Mississippi, some of Louisiana and Arkansas, most of Georgia,

the Carolinas...for starters.

[proud2BlibKansan]

235. And you are from Oklahoma

The one state that had not one precinct go for Obama.

Not much room to talk there, dude. :crazy:

[Vickers]

237. And that broke a morals clause how?

:shrug:

Practically everyone in my family is (or was) a teacher, and all but one have firearms, and I presume most or all of THEM have had photos taken with said firearms, and they are still employed (this is in Georgia).

Hope this helps.

[madmom]

16. here is a video with the sinister pic....

http://www.wkowtv.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=3408131&h1=Teacher%20removed%20from%20classroom&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=115067&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=65648858

[Deep13]

18. Big fucking deal. nt

[BuelahWitch]

Here's the picture, in case someone does not want to go to the link...

I wonder why no one thought to post it...

[TK421]

212. OH FUCK!! DONT SHOOT!!!! PLEASE, DON'T....oh.....wait a sec

damn, you know for a minute there I thought she was going to..whew!!! Thank heavens :eyes:

[Deep13]

17. What exactly is the complaint?

Poor judgment? In what way? And what does it have to do with her job? If the medium had been paint instead of photography it would be seen as freedom of expression. This isn't illegal, immoral or unethical, so WTF? What other lawful activies are off-limits for some citizens?

I know the conservatives are guilty of putting form over substance, but it seems like the PC cops do the same thing.

[BuelahWitch]

22. They're probably worried that she might be a psycho

who will start shooting kids at random. Remember Columbine? It was a stupid thing for someone who was supposed to be a grownup to do.

[benEzra]

27. So every teacher who owns a shotgun is a potential psycho?

Or is it just every teacher who is photographed with a shotgun?

Do you have any IDEA what the gun ownership rate among teachers is?

[BuelahWitch]

28. She wasn't just photographed with a shotgun

She was pointing it at the camera. And she put the creepy picture on her profile for the whole world to see.

Stuff that's cutsie poo in high school and college isn't so much when you get out into the real world.

[Goblinmonger]

29. So when we become teachers

we give up all free expression in all venues. Can she even OWN the gun, then? I mean, people could see that she has a gun and they might think that's creepy. Can she post about anything personal on Facebook, or does it all have to be aimed at what a Middle School teacher would say in front of the class?

Sure some may think it's a bit creepy, but how the hell does that translate into how she is as a teacher and, seriously, how do you suspend someone for this?

[BuelahWitch]

33. You can express yourself as freely as you like

And others can express themselves by thinking you're a whack job and refusing to hire you or getting rid of your ass if your profile creeps them out. It's unfortunate, but that's the way the world works.
If she had been fired for stating she owns guns and believes in the second amendment, that would be a different story
You say, "Sure some may think it's a bit creepy, but how the hell does that translate into how she is as a teacher..." People don't want potential whack jobs near their kids. Personally I wouldn't even accept a friend request from someone like her, especially if she was local.

[Goblinmonger]

37. But working as a teacher is not an at-will situation

They can't just fire us (well, she is in her first year at that school, apparently, so it is a little different) on a whim. There is contract language and steps that need to be taken. And firing someone for a "creepy" facebook profile pick is just bullshit.

[readmoreoften]

103. Wow, you're a real labor advocate. That's the same reason why I can be fired for being gay.

If my employer discovers that I've been in a six year relationship with another woman with whom I share a home and life, I can be terminated because it 'creeps' them out.

[BuelahWitch]

137. You're confusing civil rights with expression

But that's the way it is most places. Your first amendment rights are out the door once you're on the job.

[Goblinmonger]

143. Um, no they aren't.

This is a government entity doing the firing, so first amendment applies. And for the umpteenth time, SHE WASN'T ON THE JOB. But other than that, your argument is great.

[proud2BlibKansan]

189. That morals clause in the contract SHE SIGNED applies 24/7

[Goblinmonger]

200. And you seriously think

this violates any morals clause?

[proud2BlibKansan]

220. Yes it could

It all depends on the community where she teaches. I know a teacher who was disciplined when her neighbor called the superintendent and reported she saw the teacher buying beer at the grocery store in the next county. The district was in a dry county.

So yes, if her community thinks this picture is immoral, she is toast.

Not saying I agree. I think it stinks. But it's the way it is.

[Deep13]

41. WTF are you talking about.

1. Cameras are not people.

2. She was not actually pointing it at the camera, but off to the side.

3. What other artistic techniques are effectivelly illegal for teachers?

4. I did not find the photo remotely creepy.

I don't know what "cutsie poo" means.

High school and college are part of the real world and, anyway, what does that have to do with what we are talking about?

[BuelahWitch]

46. Excuses, excuses...

Plonk! to you!

[Deep13]

112. Excuse for WHAT?

She did nothing wrong.

[ferrous wheel]

88. Apparently cameras are endangered species now.

:eyes:

[rd_kent]

226. I just looked at your mysapce page

and the "cutsie poo" pictures you have up "isn't so much when you get out into the real world" and are most definitely creepy. Hello Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
What it really boils down to is perspective. From yours, you dont like the pic she posted. From mine, I dont like the pics you posted. Bottom line, who cares? Your pics are not illegal and neither are hers, gun and all ('cause the last time I checked, it was legal to own a gun in this country).

[BuelahWitch]

230. I don't really care if you don't like my page, it's your perogative to do so

Does Gone with the Wind scare you? Or was it Nazimova? Or perhaps Mae West? In any case, nothing on my page is offensive, so your "I hate your page n'ya n'ya n'ya" is just childish and your attack on me really doesn't have lege. But I guess it made you feel better, didn't it? Have an absolutely LOVELY weekend! :hi:

[rd_kent]

239. WTF? I never said or implied any of that!

I was just trying to make the point that your dislike of the gun picture is much like my dislike of your pictures. Doesnt mean thers anything wrong with them, just not what we prefer to see. I was only using your pics as an example,(I actually liked some of them)and was just trying to make a point that you obviously missed.

[Pithlet]

145. No. Just the ones who post creepy pictures of themselves with them.

I'm sorry. That pic gave me the willies. I was thinking possible overreaction until I saw the pic. :shudder: I think she's screwed. Most schools do have policies that say they can fire for stuff like this. Teachers have been fired for less. ETA do I think she's a danger to students? No. I think she's a gun enthusiast with very poor judgment.

[Deep13]

38. Nice slam on psychiatric patients.

Most mass murderers are not "psychos" in point of fact. Most know exactly what they are doing. Owning a firearm is not illegal, immoral or unethical. Neither is photography. It was a harmless thing to do. I've got news for you. A lot of people including teachers own shotguns. My grandfather was a teacher. He owns a shotgun. Maybe if she were a male teacher people would assume the gun was for sports and not for being a "psycho." A lot of people have posed for photos with firearms. I've done it myself. And what about Columbine? Is this teacher responsible for that? Is she supposed to give up driving because students sometimes get killed in auto accidents? Is she supposed to give up drinking because some people are drunks?

Bottom line: her supervisors have an irrational fear of guns and they took it out on her.

[BuelahWitch]

45. This has nothing to do with the second amendment

When you "express yourself" on those sites, you run the risk of offending an employer, or possible employer. She made an unfortunate, irresponsible choice in her profile picture and it scared some people. Apparently you don't understand that because you're getting all huffy about "her right to own a gun." There's more involved here and you know it, only you won't get off your fucking high horse.

[Squatch]

47. Just for argument's sake...

what if, instead of a gun, she had posted a picture of herself holding Ted Haggard's repli-cock and a fifth of tequila, objects which are legal and which some people find offensive, potentially even her employer. Would you support the school's decision then?

[BuelahWitch]

51. It would be an equally stupid thing for her to do

It's not a question of whether I "support" the school's decision. The picture creeped them out. A sexually suggestive one probably would too. I wouldn't be as creeped out having her teach my kids if she was holding a dildo and booze, but it would still be piss poor judgment on her part to do so.

[Squatch]

53. So, how was the teacher in question to know what "creeps out" the school's board?

Was she trained on those things which "creep people out"? Did she get a guide to do's and don'ts to avoid "creeping people out"?

The point is, short of her engaging in illegal activity on Facebook, the school, in my opinion, invaded and punished her for her private life.

What if, instead of her posting a picture on Facebook, a bunch of townspeople (including school kids, parents, etc) walked by her house one day and saw her on her front lawn holding the rifle? Or saw her holding it wherever it is legal to possess a rifle?

I'm probably not making any sense. It's after 11PM, I've been up since 6 AM, and I have to go stand guard duty for the next 4 hours in the freezing cold. Fun.

[BuelahWitch]

54. Common sense should tell you what may and may not be acceptable

She's an adult, it's supposed to come with the territory. :eyes:
If you're putting your shit out on a PUBLIC website it's not private anymore, is it? It's not like they're peeping in her windows. It's a PUBLIC website.

[Occulus]

56. Teachers used to be fired for wearing pants in public

Are you completely out of your mind, or are you just playing like it in this thread?

[BuelahWitch]

61. Thank you for the ad homonym attack

:eyes: What you do on a PUBLIC forum may invite unwanted scrutiny and consequences from employers. You kidlets who think the internets are here for you to "express yourselves freely" need to grow up and realize that real life isn't MTV. You might think it's cute, but others don't.

[Goblinmonger]

69. So you don't think

that the first amendment needs to change with the advent of new technology? And this is a first amendment issue since it is the government disciplining her.

And, btw, you do know you sound about a hundred years old in your post? Don't know if that is what you are going for or not.

[BuelahWitch]

81. So now you want to change the first amendment?

Shall we change the second amendment while we're at it?
I AM 100 years old, and don't really give a flying fuck who knows it! ;)

Now I'm off to run errands. Carry on!

[Goblinmonger]

104. Good Christ.

Of course the first amendment is elastic and changes to adapt to technology. What do you think they did when radio was invented? Television? Read the Sable Communications ruling about phone sex. Do you think the founders foresaw that one? No. But the SCOTUS realized the first amendment needed to adapt.

[NeedleCast]

73. What is the internets for?

Since we've got you, arbiter of what the internets is for, right here on DU, perhaps you can tell us "kidlets" what is and isn't acceptable internet behavior?

[BuelahWitch]

80. Most people on DU use an alias

Not the same thing.

[NeedleCast]

95. Doesnt' answer the question

Your previous posts demonstrate that you believe you know what the internets are for, and what acceptable behavior on them is.

I'm just trying to tap into your well of wisdom here. Specifically, I'd like a list of what perfectly legal activities are unacceptable for teachers but might be okay for construction workers or bartenders.

[BuelahWitch]

144. I've answered your "question" hundreds of times but you won't listen anyway

You've got your fingers in your ears "la la la la la" So let's just say we disagree on this one, eh?

[NeedleCast]

152. I don't think you're talking to who you think you're talking to

The only question I've asked you is what behavior(s) you deem acceptable or unacceptable for teachers on the interweb. You have suggested, upthread, that you find a teacher holding a gun to be unacceptable and worthy of termination. Do you think we should fire/suspend a teacher who's Facebook picture shows them smoking a cigarette or drinking alcohol?

[BuelahWitch]

194. Here's something from an article I found:

Employers Using Facebook for Background Checking: Is It Legal?
Thinking Practically

Those are a few of my well-educated, but still speculative, legal thoughts. Long ago, one of my mentors taught me to always ask not only what the law requires my client to do, but also what the client should do, taking into account extra-legal factors such as business realities, employee morale, employee and public perceptions, etc. Here, I have some thoughts on what both employers and applicants/employees should do, in the face of this growing trend of employers checking social networking sites.

I would advise applicants/employees to assume future employers will read everything you post. So when you put something about yourself out there, you can be yourself, but avoid obvious negatives like saying you hate to work or posting sleazy or drunken photos. It may help to ask yourself whether you would want your mother to see your site. Sorry to say, but you may not even want to admit homosexuality or extreme political or religious views. On a positive note, use your Internet postings, including blogs as well as social networking sites, affirmatively, to build visibility and credibility as an expert in your field (or hobby). Join more "serious" networking sites like LinkedIn even if you are still a student -- and work at building a network there that can help you in future job searches.

The entire article is here:
http://www.collegerecruiter.com/weblog/2006/09/employers_using.php

[NeedleCast]

204. Just because it's being done doesn't make it right

[BuelahWitch]

211. I didn't say it did

There are many things that aren't "right" but it's the way things are.

[ferrous wheel]

227. Is "ad homonym" supposed to be a play on words here, or do you just not know

how to spell very well?

[BuelahWitch]

231. It was DU spell check I had it as "hominem" which I thought was correct

and they changed it. But thank you for your Gungeon spelling nazi lesson...:hi:

[ferrous wheel]

233. testing

ad hominem

Not in the dictionary. That's why I never use it. Don't need it anyway. And you are welcome. :D

edit: meant to say you had it right to begin with. English (especially when it has incorporated other languages such as Latin in this case) can be exasperating. It has way more than its fair share of homonyms (like stem, a part of a plant and stem, to impede the flow of something, for example) and then we have the homophones like flour and flower and some other words which don't even fall into a clear category like reFUSE and REFuse.
I'm not really a Nazi, just a stickler.
:-)

[NeedleCast]

70. I Feel Sorry For You

[BuelahWitch]

83. The feeling is mutual

:hi:

[EFerrari]

85. Part of what a teacher sells to an employer is being a responsible member

of a community which your students can emulate and learn from.

She was hired to be an adult and it is supposed to come with the territory.

[NeedleCast]

102. So you consider being photographed with a gun

irresponsible....why?

Having a picture taken of you holding a gun is non-adult behavior...why?

Look, I get what you're saying, but where do you draw the line? Is it okay for a group of teachers to go out for happy hour at the local Ruby Tuesday's? I mean, there's a chance that a student could come in with their parents or friends and see their teacher drinking! Is it okay for a gay or lesbian teacher to be seen with their partner? The fundies would flip their shit over that!

When you start to dictate what LEGAL behavior is acceptable for one person but not another, you are putting us on a very slippery slope.

[EFerrari]

109. I think I answered that question clearly down thread.

It's not the gun. It's the context. Teachers teach behavior as well as information.

There's nothing wrong with going somewhere with your friends (going into a bar) or affectionate with your (same or different sex) partner, or relaxing at home. That's social adult behavior.

This isn't about legal vs illegal. It's about modeling social behavior -- the kind that when you grow up, people expect you to know -- like, don't point guns at people unless you're a cop or there's someone immediately threatening you as in breaking into your home.

[NeedleCast]

120. Every time I see the words "social adult behavior"

or acceptable adult behavior it just sends chills down my spine.

That aside, your version of acceptable social adult behavior does not stand true for all people. There are plenty of parents out there who would fill their britches at the thought of their kiddo's teacher being gay, but wouldn't bat an eye at a teacher pointing a gun. There's a Jehova's Witness here in my work place that does not consider ANY reference to alcohol to be appropriate in the work place...so much so that we've been told by the management that we're not allowed to include her on happy hour invitiations or anything else that even suggests the involvement of alcohol.

So who's view of acceptable adult social behavior should we be using in determining who gets fired? Yours, mine? That of the Jehova's Witnesses? Random redneck who has no issues with guns but hates queers?

[EFerrari]

128. The thing is, if you were a teacher, it would be your challenge to figure out

what positive social norms are and how to model them. It's the district administration's job to outline them and it's your job to follow those guidelines. In part, living in society means negotiating group rules.

Can they be arbitrary? Sure. People can be huge jerks.

[NeedleCast]

150. So then your argument is that in rural Wisconsin

guns are outside the social norms? I don't think that would be true.

I understand that you think it's how the gun is being point that is the issue here (I think). Living in a society does mean negotiating group rules and we have laws that describe what those rules are. I guess I'm just of the opinion that if it's not breaking a law, then the group has deemed it acceptable and that we shouldn't say that something that is acceptable for one sub-group in a society isn't acceptable for another.

You've been saying that it's the manner in which the gun is being pointed that's the problem. If you start firing people for implied activities, we're going to have a much bigger unemployment issue than this economic depression is going to generate...

I'm also not sure how you can think that pointing a gun in the general direction of a camera implies they're pointing it someone. That's the very definition of "thought crime." Should we fire a teacher who hugs a student when he or she does something comendable because it could suggest something sexually inappropriate?

[EFerrari]

154. No, that isn't it and you know that because it's been restated for you over and over..

When you view a photograph of a person aiming a rifle at you, there is no implication. If there is a "thought crime", it would be yours, the viewer's. Because we have binocular vision and frontal lobes and (most of us) interpret context.

And you can't seriously be arguing that industries don't have standards for employee behavior that vary across different markets.

[NeedleCast]

176. I admit I don't understand why a photograph

of a person aiming a gun at a camera would imply that it's being aimed at the viewer. There's just nothing at all that bothers me about that photograph.

I agree that if there is a thought crime here, it is on the viewer, and not the person in the picture. Watching the video clip though, the first lady they interview says "I don't see any reason why she should have it on there." Thing is though, the teacher doesn't have to have a good reason. Maybe she likes the way her hair looks in it, who knows.

And no, I'm not arguing that different industries or professions don't have differen standards. I'm arguing that having different standards is, in general, a bad thing and that firing/suspending employees for the possible implication of something "bad" is wrong.

[Goblinmonger]

129. She. Didn't. Point. A. Gun. At. ANYONE! n/t

[EFerrari]

130. Did you or did you not say you were a teacher?

How can an educator not know that the viewer is a de facto person?

Holy cow.

[Goblinmonger]

141. So now people can be fired

for photographic metaphor. This is a screwed up world.

So if I write a poem in which someone is killed by a gun and I get that poem published, you would argue that I could be fired because there are school shootings out there?

What if my garbage man has a facebook photo like that? I don't want him shooting anyone. He should be fired!

Holy cow is right.

[EFerrari]

148. So you also don't know the difference between a suspension and a dismissal?

And you're not aware of the impact of visual images on people, let alone children?

And you don't seem to be able to distinguish between anti-social behavior and art?

And you don't seem to understand the role of a teacher v. a garbage collector in the community?

:scared:

[Goblinmonger]

153. Yes I do know the difference. You seem to be arguing for dismissal.

You don't have any proof that children saw this.

You do? That picture is anti-social in your opinion? :scared:

You would have no problem with a garbage collector shooting someone while in a fit of anti-social behavior? :scared:

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

158. I seem to be arguing for dismissal?

I've already said I wouldn't have even suspended that teacher.

It must get confusing trying to sort out how things "seem" to you and how they are.

[Goblinmonger]

161. Yes, I confused you for a moment with the other

poster against teachers being able to have a life.

Way to avoid the other points in the post, though.

[EFerrari]

163. If you're a teacher and "having a life" means pointing guns at people for fun

I suggest you don't put it on Facebook.

[Goblinmonger]

164. She didn't really point a gun at someone

just metaphorically. You seem to be confusing the two.

[EFerrari]

171. We've had that discussion already. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

142. I taught with a gal who had taught in a small rural district

and she was told she would be fired if she didn't quit her part time job at Pizza Hut. Cause she served beer.

[EFerrari]

151. Damn. A lot of the teachers in one of our districts would be out

if they were fired for that. In fact, when I was a teen, I graded papers for one on the nights she was out working. Not only was she supporting her kids, she was teaching me how to teach at the same time.

[Goblinmonger]

155. You grading papers for your mom

is now a violation of FERPA.

[EFerrari]

157. And you can't read English either?

Darn.

[Goblinmonger]

160. My mistake on whom you corrected for.

Still a FERPA violation. Which I agree with. Students should not know the grades of other students.

[Deep13]

110. I didn't mention the 2nd Amend.

I'm really irritated because they violated her FIRST Amendment right to self expression. AGAIN you have failed to explain how posting a photo of a lawful, morally nuetral activity is irresponsible. They suspended her for NO REAL REASON and you fucking know it. And freedom of expression is a high horse and it ought to be and I absolutely will not get off it. So what arbitrary reasons can you be fired for?

[timtom]

19. The school's position is utter nonsense!

It is my opinion that public education is a counter-productive means to education. I felt that way in the sixties and now I am immovable.

However -- this calls into question the advisability of such "social networking" sites such as myspace and facebook. It was obvious to me from the giddyap that there was a nefarious and dangerous substrate, the least of which was data mining (which is becoming reality). This incident underscores another danger.

[Cardiff]

21. #1: Guns are legal. #2: Maybe she scared off a potential school shooter.

Yeah, it was poor taste for some, but she did nothing illegal here.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

23. She should sue their asses off

[tammywammy]

40. Yep. n/t

[chrisa]

24. WTF?

How can you be suspended for holding a legal object? It's not like she's waving a bag of crack at the camera.

The PC police strike again.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Quick! How do I make my Facebook page private?

:evilgrin:

[BuelahWitch]

36. Too late! The Al Gore meetup orgy photos are all over the internets

You're known as "Double Jointed Debbie" here in Lawrence. :evilgrin:

[proud2BlibKansan]

105. Am I naked in those?

Or will everyone be more interested in Al?

[BuelahWitch]

165. Not quite, you still have your thigh high red boots on

But you'd already lost your pasties. Your face is hard to see because of your excellent flexibility, so I wouldn't worry about it. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

191. Phew

:hi:

[RoadRage]

32. Total Over Reaction..

Owning a Gun is legal. Being in a picture holding a gun is also legal. This womans privacy was violated.

How about we decide if she's a good teacher and judge her on that.. not on what she does or doesn't do outside of the classroom that is totally legal?

What a waste... let the woman teach. Hell, she probably got some "street cred" with some of her students now that they know she owns a gun.. let her turn that into a teaching moment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. It's a public Internet site

How is this a privacy violation?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

43. She was suspended for something that is completely legal

That seems like a privacy violation to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. My point was that it seems silly to expect privacy when you make yourself public on the Internet

And the morals clause in her contract will do her in if that picture is offensive to her commnity and/or school board.

There is a district here that won't hire teachers if they have tattoos. Those are legal too but if you want a job teaching you learn to jump through the hoops they put in front of you.

[NeedleCast]

125. That may be so

but it doesn't make it right.

Signs, signs everywhere signs, blocking up the scenery, breaking my mind. Do this, don't do that can't you read the signs?

...and the sign said long haired hippty people, need not apply.

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. I am a longtime activist so I hear ya

The problem is I need my paycheck to fund my activism :)

[NeedleCast]

178. That's cool

I understand.

Question if I may...and I don't know if you'll have an answer. How is the district that will not hire a person who has tattoos (especially if they can be covered up with clothing) getting around anti-discrimination laws? Do you know if it's ever been challenged?

[proud2BlibKansan]

193. No I don't know if it has been challenged

Good question.

I doubt it though. Teachers tend to be rule followers, regardless of how stupid the rules are.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

234. Wow, having a ban on tattoos for teachers is just unfathomable to me

In my HS, we had a music teacher with full sleeve tattoos. And, I actually ended up taking one of my former HS teachers to get her 1st tattoo (we ended up becoming good friends once I graduated).

[Goblinmonger]

39. I live about 30 miles from Beaver Dam

where she teaches and it is a VERY rural Wisconsin town. Guns are not uncommon amongst the population.

[rucky]

34. I bet when she gets back, the kids won't screw around in her class anymore. n/t

[Squatch]

42. In my Facebook picture, I'm holding a high explosive artillery shell

I'd hate to speculate as to what my punishment would be. :scared:

[NeedleCast]

75. Terrorist

[Belial]

48. Even if she is able to go back to the school.. there is now

going to be some parent that feels their child is "threatened" because of the picture.. sigh

[Taverner]

49. That's stupid

Why is it the school's business if she owns a gun and takes pictures with it?

I mean, sure I find it jejune, but not a sign of bad moral character or whatever they are trying to paint her with.

[RoadRage]

52. How is this any different then if she'd posed with her girlfriend kissing?

It's not illegal, and she can be a lesbian teacher - but the school district deems it to be of "bad moral character"?

Frankly - neither guns, etc. are illegal.. so leave her alone, let her do her job - and move on. If some on here are "OK" with her getting suspended because they don't like guns, then are you OK with someone else getting suspended for a picture that portrays their sexual preference that administrators might not like?

It's a slippery slope that is best not walked on. If it's legal, leave it alone.

[scrinmaster]

57. There would be complete outrage if she'd been suspended for kissing a girl.

Not so much for this, though.

[RoadRage]

60. Yup..

and IMO that would be wrong too.. my point is let people live their lives legally!

[ieoeja]

58. Shouldn't point guns at people.

The problem might be because she was pointing the gun at the camera. Some stupid kid sees that, wants his friend to take a picture of him pointing the gun at the screen, and hilarity ensues!

Still, taking the picture down ought to be enough. But administrators love overreacting to everything. And most freely admit they are only doing so for appearances sake, not because they think they are actually doing anything that will help anyone.

[scrinmaster]

64. Most cameras have timers, there probably wasn't anyone in front of her.

[Goblinmonger]

71. Oh, you crazy kids with your fancy cameras.

Just because you have timers on your cameras doesn't mean you get to go use them all willy-nilly.

[EFerrari]

86. But that's not the way people read photographs. It's not the way people pose

for cameras, either, is it? Sounds like she was clearly aiming at the viewer.

[Critters2]

63. For those of us who've lived near school shootings, this is disturbing.

Next week, we'll be commemorating the anniversary of the Northern Illinois University shootings. I have a parishioner who is still dealing with PTSD issues from that day (she teaches at NIU). This reminds us how important it is that the classroom feel safe to all students, and faculty. From my perspective, I can see how it might be traumatizing to a student to see a pic of a teacher aiming a gun at you. I think this was in bad taste. Do I think she should be fired? Not really. But she could use a good psych eval.

[Goblinmonger]

67. Should she not wear a tshirt in public

that has an alcohol reference on it for fear of upsetting those that had family members die in a drunk driving accident?

There is absolutely no reference that her students saw the picture. I would doubt she had students as friends; I know I don't. It was another teacher that ratted her out (which is a whole other discussion in my mind--what kind of ahole colleague doesn't just to right to the teacher and talk about it but runs to the admin first?).

[Critters2]

74. I actually don't think teachers should wear t-shirts in public

with alcohol references on them. So, I guess my answer would be...no, she shouldn't.

[Goblinmonger]

76. You aren't serious are you?

Please tell me that was sarcasm, because I think you really mean that. So because I teach, I can't wear my Cuervo t-shirt to the Y to work out?

Man. I would not want to live in your world if you were philosopher king.

Are my Tabasco ties OK to wear to work, because one of them is up on the rotation to wear to school next week. Never know when someone had a relative die from a heart attack when eating really spicy food.

One thing about DU, I'm never ready for the times I will shocked by what progressives say and think.

[Critters2]

77. Beer t-shirts and guns.

Yeah, a progressive paradise. :eyes:

[Goblinmonger]

82. First of all

I didn't say beer but alcohol, not that I think it matters. (yes, my example was beer). And you really don't think that progressives drink beer? You need to get out more. OK, how about Guinness? Progressive enough for you? Merlot? Grey Goose?

[readmoreoften]

114. Should everyone wear shirts with latte and fine wine logos? Classist much?

God forbid a teacher should wear populist garb on his or her off time.

[EFerrari]

117. I was reading it the other way and thinking about what it means

if a teacher wears corporate logos. But, I'm basically a Pinko. lol

[readmoreoften]

111. What makes you think people here are necessarily 'progressives'?

There are a lot of moderate Republicans who think they're liberals because we've gone so far to the right for the past two decades.

[county worker]

89. How the hell do you know the person wearing the t-shirt is a teacher?

That is really ridiculous.

Let's make a list of professions and along with it the do's and don'ts we want to impose on them.

[EFerrari]

90. His/her students would know, wouldn't they?

[county worker]

92. They probably wouldn't even give a shit unless you taught them that they should.

[EFerrari]

94. Motivating students in positive activities is definitely part of the job description.

[Critters2]

188. Many employers already do.

I work with drug counselors who are not allowed to drink in public nor wear clothes advertising alcohol, because of the bad example it sets. They don't seem to mind.

[proud2BlibKansan]

124. Is my ARREST BUSH tshirt okay?

He is an alcoholic, or so some say. :evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

139. If Miranda rights were printed on the back, it would be a good teaching tool!

lol

[proud2BlibKansan]

168. Especially for my kids

LOL

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

79. Yep, I agree with that. Really terrible modeling. n/t

[county worker]

91. Respectfully, you need a psych eval!

If you need to go on facebook and find fault with someone's entry I think you need help. You don't have anything better to do with your life?

[NeedleCast]

66. Being a teacher means giving up your 2nd amendment rights?

I don't know what to say either...

[Codeine]

93. And your 1st Amendment rights as well.

Remember, at the New DU we've determined that the Constitution is only for us.

[NeedleCast]

97. I keep forgetting that...

You know what it is? To many amendments! Maybe we can get the authoritarians here on DU to pare it down to an orderly list of five or so really important amendments and just junk the rest?

[EFerrari]

96. Nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. It's about modeling appropriate behavior.

She wasn't standing with a target she hit or with animals she'd bagged. She was pointing a gun at the viewer of a photograph. The former is modeling skill and industry. The latter is modeling borderline criminal behavior. You don't want that in a teacher much.

[NeedleCast]

98. Ooooo, more thought crime, I like it!

dictating what is acceptable and unacceptable perfectly legal behavior is a great idea!

Appropriate behavior, that's what we need more of...that's double plus good! Orwell would be proud.

[EFerrari]

99. It's her job to know what is appropriate and what isn't. She's a teacher.

That's why she gets the big money.

[NeedleCast]

100. Is there a list or something?

That provides her with a guide to what is appropriate and what's not?

As an IT employee, maybe I should check with my human resources people to see if there's any perfectly legal behavior that doesn't apply to me. After all, I work for an education non-profit. My tattoos and drinking could be a bad influence on college bound kids.


Or could it be that "appropriate behvior" is completely subject to what the observe considers appropriate and that we probably shouldn't be firing or suspending workers based on perfectly legal behavior?

[EFerrari]

101. There probably is a set of guidelines in her district.

That being said, if you don't have the sense not to pretend to be pointing a gun at someone in that context, you're probably too stupid to process the guidelines and aren't much of a teacher in the first place.

[NeedleCast]

106. Pretending to point a gun at someone?

So it's the position of the gun that's the thought crime here then? Not that she's holding a gun, but that (you believe) she's pointing it at someone, which may or may not be the case.

While I'm sure there is a set of employee guidelines in her district, I'd sure be interested to know what guideline this violates?

Cigarettes kill hundreds of times more people in a year than guns. If a teacher is seen at a bar smoking a cigarette should they be fired/suspended?

[EFerrari]

115. If she's pointing the gun at the viewer, she's pointing the gun at someone

whether there was someone there or not. That's how people read photographs.

Do you seriously not see the problem, especially given the school shootings that American school children seem to like so well? Damn.

[NeedleCast]

133. Do you seriously not see the slippery slope?

Of firing/suspending people for thought crimes? I guess I just don't see that pointing a gun in the general direction of a camera that may or may not have a person behind it is indicative of suggesting you'd shoot them.

Again, would you be okay with the firing/suspention of a teacher who was seen smoking in public? Smoking kills a hell of a lot more people than guns. What about a teacher drinking in public? Is a teacher who smokes guilty of encouraging their pupils to smoke?

They way you're tying things together, shouldn't we fire a teacher for having a drink at a public bar? After all, if we're just jumping to conclusions that pointing a gun (in the general direction of a camera) is equal to school shootings, we shouldn't have any problem tying having a drink at a bar to encouraging under-aged drinking and drunk driving, right?

[EFerrari]

146. It's not a "thought crime" if it's a graphic image on a public website, is it?

The "slippery slope" involved when pointing a gun at a person is a really, really short ramp.

I wouldn't have suspended this teacher but I would have had a discussion with her about why we don't point guns at people. Good grief.

[NeedleCast]

167. It absolutely is a thought crime

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that your idea of a graphic image and mine are probably very dissimilar if you consider pointing a gun in the general direction of a camera to be graphic. Further, I disagree that pointing a gun at a camera implies they are pointing it at a person. Just not a logical leap I'm willing to make any more than a teacher having a drink at a bar suggests drunk driving. If I point my pointer and middle finger in a "gun shape" at my head does it imply suicide? Or that I'm having a bad day?

You keep saying "pointing a gun at a person" but there's no person. YOU are implying that there is a person. That does not make it so.

It is a thought crime because there is no crime being committed but the employer is acting as if there were. Further though, and more importantly to me, is the suggestion that we're all being monitored all the time for thought crime and that we should all act as if any action we take, even perfectly legal ones will be used against us in some way. That's a scary, scary world and we're already way to close to it as it is. And, thanks to decisions like this, we've inched a bit closer...

[EFerrari]

184. Yes, you are having a bad day if you don't understand

the position of the viewer in respect to any photograph.

[NeedleCast]

190. Agree to Disagree then

Not much left to say. If you think that a person pointing a gun at a camera implies they are pointing it at the viewer, okay.

I don't.

Question. If you see a picture of the front end of a car from the perspective that the car is coming toward you, do you worry about getting run over by it?

[EFerrari]

192. Why don't you run down your extensive knowledge of when children are able

to distinguish between concrete thinking and more abstract operations? Because we were talking about a teacher of children, right? Not me.

[NeedleCast]

207. Okay then

I bet I can walk into a store in BFE Wisconsin and find MUCH more graphic pictures on the boxes of video games, or books, or magazine covers, etc. etc.

Why is that okay, but this picture is a threat?

[EFerrari]

213. Free advice: don't go into education. n/t

[Goblinmonger]

218. Way to not answer the question.

Your art of deflecting from questions you don't want to answer is rather transparent.

[Goblinmonger]

107. Right. And you know

she's a shitty teacher, how, exactly?

[EFerrari]

116. Because good teachers know where the boundaries of social behavior are.

Didn't you say you were a teacher? :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

113. Teachers contracts have morals clauses in them

If the patrons in her district think what she did is immoral, she's fucked.

[EFerrari]

121. Hey -- I finally decided to set up a tutoring business with my brother.

We're going to wear t-shirts with beer, guns and women on them. That will be our logo: "Want this? You gotta get into college first!"

lol

[proud2BlibKansan]

127. Just be careful how you word your contracts

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

132. "Pay me or I'll shoot!"

:rofl:

[NeedleCast]

180. Okay, I get that

I think it's shitty, but I get it.

But do we really know what the patrons in her district think? According to the news clip, I think we've got one yes and one no so far...

[proud2BlibKansan]

195. Well they are obviously offended enough to suspend this teacher

That says something right there.

I also feel pretty certain this wouldn't happen in my district. But we have a strong union and a good contract.

[readmoreoften]

118. Big money? That's a joke right? Why is it up to every mom in America to decide a teacher's personal

life off work?

That's why I will never teach outside the college level because a group of nasty, overjealous mothers and fathers can get you fired for just about anything. Because they expect kids teachers to be "moral" (read political) models and not MATH educators or science teachers. I watched my biology teacher in high school run out of work sobbing after she was fired because complaining mommies and daddies were worried that her visual lesbianism would rub off on their sterling children.

[EFerrari]

122. Yes, that was a joke. And yeah, people can be assholes.

No argument there.

[NeedleCast]

181. Because it's America

Home of perpetual outrage...

[EFerrari]

196. Where you get outrage, I have no ideal

Maybe "America, home of perpetual hyperbole" would be more accurate.

[bertman]

78. I'm pretty sure it's 'cause she was shooting a Beaver. Damn.

[aikoaiko]

138. Fuckin stupid school adminstrators.

Glad I have tenure.

[derby378]

140. Statement from ACLU of Wisconsin

A Beaver Dam Middle School teacher, Betsy Ramsdale, should not have been put on administrative leave simply because of a photo on Facebook showing her training a rifle at the camera. While school safety is of paramount importance, public school teachers do not lose their right to free expression when they are not working.

The context of the photo, the whole Facebook page, is important to understand before taking action against a teacher, who happens to be a gun enthusiast. Media accounts of the photo do not indicate any additional grounds for concern. Beaver Dam School District superintendent Donald Childs is reported to be unaware of any sinister intent.

"Absent any evidence that the teacher poses a threat, the district should not over-react to the sight of a gun in one of their employee's hands," said Chris Ahmuty, Executive Director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin today.

The ACLU of Wisconsin is a membership organization devoted to the defense and promotion of civil liberties and rights for all Wisconsin residents.

http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9802250&nav=menu1362_2

[tammywammy]

175. kick for your post derby!

[Kaleva]

208. Double kick

[BuelahWitch]

147. To prove my point about MySpace and Facebook and employers...

Employers Use "Facebook" and "MySpace" to Weed Out Applicants


Colleen Seeker is a sophomore at the Carlson School of Management, who's a few years away from job-seeking in the real world. And, at the moment, she isn't too worried about what potential employers might learn about her online. "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen, oh well."

And she's not alone. Morgan Kinross-Wright is a career counselor at Carlson School of Management. "A lot of students were surprised that recruiters might look them up on Facebook."

"Facebook" is a social networking site like "MySpace," but is geared specifically toward college students. Millions of them have their own "Facebook" profile that can reveal everything from the admirable to the mundane.

Karen Lange is the Dean of Students at the University of St. Thomas. "The caution I have is around putting too much personal information out there; their cell phone numbers or pictures or inappropriate pictures that might come back to haunt them later in life."

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/tech/news/news-article.aspx?storyid=64453

[Zodiak]

149. PC police? Probably not...it's worse

It's our society's great obsession with judgment. Not judgment of ourselves, but judgment of others. And it exists on both sides of the political divide. No one is good enough, no one is smart enough, and no one is pure in intention or thought, therefore all must be judged as harshly as possible by others.

This thread is full of the same kind of obsession with judgment.

The teacher did nothing wrong...if anyone should be disciplined, it is the teacher that ratted her out.

[EFerrari]

156. Judgment is that thing you have to have when you spend a working day around kids.

[Goblinmonger]

162. If she brought the gun into class,

you'd have an argument. If she actually shot someone, you'd have an argument.

You have no idea what she is like in the classroom.

[EFerrari]

166. You're not a teacher, are you, Goblinmonger?

[Goblinmonger]

170. Yep

English teacher. Pretty good understanding of the difference between something figurative and something literal. You may want to google those to find out the difference.

[EFerrari]

174. Really? Then you understand that figurative representation

figures something concrete. It is not that concrete object and you can't experience a figure as you experience someone pointing a gun at you?

Yes?

[Goblinmonger]

201. No

When Kennedy said it was time to "pass the torch to a new generation" that was figurative language. He didn't mean anything about a torch. And I think your second sentence supports my point of view. She isn't really pointing a gun at me. It is a picture of her pointing a gun.

[EFerrari]

210. If you believe figurative language doesn't mean, you're wrong.

I'd suggest English Rehab. Do you have any idea what that torch figured?

And if you're so severely ignorant of how children and young people process visual images, you shouldn't be teaching.

I don't support the suspension of this teacher. But she needs a few continuing ed units on any number of subjects, like, how to keep your job, let alone, how to model behavior you want to deal with or how to promote safety in the classroom.

[Goblinmonger]

216. Of course it means.

But it doesn't mean what the literal is. Hence she is pointing a gun at the camera, so any interpretation of her pointing the gun at me is figurative and not literal, i.e. it means something else.

Most kids know the difference between reality and fiction. They would not look at that picture and think it was pointed at them. And there is still NO EVIDENCE that any kid even saw that picture.

[Zodiak]

205. I would hope not that kind of judgment

There is a difference between judging if kids are going to get themselves into trouble (after all, they are kids and tend to do that) and judging some adult to the point where their livelihood is threatened because they were pointing a gun in a picture, which is perfectly legal and culturally normal.

This is just plain wrong, and shows me that the public teaching culture in some places seem to be stressing conformity over substance...not to mention a good dose of paranoia. Sad. I sure am glad I graduated 20 years ago when we were allowed to bring guns to school and we had a skeet-shooting teacher with LOTS of pictures of him pointing guns all over the school. Even though I didn't participate in any of it, I still appreciated that others were allowed to. We even had a couple of state champ shooters over the years in my High School.

So are we going to suspend teachers who are dumb enough to be in the SCA? After all, they beat each other up with swords all day...and lots of them are "egads!" pagans. In some states, having a blade longer than 3" is considered illegal, so they are easy pickings.

Or how about the teacher that likes to play music? Shall we suspend them because they have a band that plays weekends in bars? Or how about if they shoot a youtube video playing Led Zepplin and some christian asshole remembers some propaganda from the 70's and complains?

This is why all of this "moral clause" crap is counter-productive, in my opinion. Teachers should be allowed to be themselves outside of the classroom as long as it is within the confines of the law and there is no substance abuse. Otherwise you only attract a bunch of people willing to conform to the job, and conformity is not officially on the curriculum. Music is, though...and history....and competitive sports like skeet shooting.

[BuelahWitch]

215. Maybe you should run for a schoolboard and try to change it?

:shrug:

[Zodiak]

217. To change it, I would have to run for their school board

I live a bit far away.

[BuelahWitch]

232. Your school district probably has the same thing

You could start a trend.

[KittyWampus]

179. why do you assume it was a teacher who "ratted her out"? Perhaps a kid was freaked out

[NeedleCast]

186. Becasue the news clip says so

[EFerrari]

197. No, the clip says staff.

[Zodiak]

199. Then I apologize

The staffer should be suspended or made to explain why they were tooling around people's Myspace pages and looking to cause trouble for a coworker by running off to the administration right away with whatever damning thing they could find, practically guaranteeing that this become a big drama issue that makes it to the newspaper, giving my school district bad publicity and dividing my community.

That, to me, is irresponsible and unprofessional.

And I teach, as well, although in a college setting. I disagree with the whole insistence on public school teachers adhering to some code of conformity in the first place. You really put a chilling effect on free-thinkers, which are so desperately needed these days.

And no, I do not like guns, personally. But there is this 2nd amendment thing that I agree with, as well as the 1st.

[crimsonblue]

159. I hope she sues and wins

I don't get why this is even a story.

[KittyWampus]

177. The teacher (authority figure) is aiming a gun at the viewer. She choose this knowing kids

would see it.

I wonder if it was her way of making kids think she'll enforce discipline?

I could certainly understand a brief suspension while Administrators called her in to inquire after her mindset.

[Goblinmonger]

202. We don't know that kids viewed it.

We know a member of the "staff" viewed it. I do not friend current students. They need to have graduated first. Your discipline comment is some pretty wild speculation.

[Lucian]

206. She looked like a fucking nutcase in the pic.

She deserves to go.

[Pithlet]

214. It was seriously bad judgment on her part.

She really does look like a nutcase. I'm sorry. It's one thing to post a picture of yourself with your gun by your side in a "Here's my gun; isn't it a beaut?" way. Maybe even a shot of you firing it a target or something in a "Here I am enjoying my hobby" kind of way. If it had been a pic like that, I would be on her side. Quite another to post with it in a menacing "I'm about to blow your brains out" pose, with a view right down the barrel like that. Teachers do have a responsibility to conduct themselves differently in public. It comes with the job, and they know it going in. If the school decides to let her back, I wouldn't be against that, but I see why they took the action they did, and I don't have a problem with it.

[Goblinmonger]

219. Yes, for goodness sake,

if you think someone looks like a nutcase, then they are clearly not fit to teach. How many school districts do you do your divining for?

[Lucian]

224. Yeah, because a normal person would point a gun right at a camera...

with a look on his/her face like "I'm going to blow your fucking brains out." I'd want someone like that teaching my kids. :eyes:

[fascisthunter]

229. she's an idiot A-Hole

for doing that... tell me? Is it really worth it to point a gun at viewers? Well, not in the real World it isn't. She had to be dumb as a box of rocks if she didn't consider the possible fall-out from this...


She should add text at the bottom that reads:

"Hi... hi parents... I could be your kid's teacher, and I'm pointing a gun at everyone, including you. I'm cool... can I teach your kids?"

[proud2BlibKansan]

238. LOL! Best response in the thread

You get it :)