KILL THE GOP TALKING POINT #2 - "Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme"

[Taverner]

Again, complete utter BS

A real Ponzi scheme is more or less a sophisticated game of Three Card Monte. The idea is that there is no real transparency.

With Social Security, however, there is COMPLETE transparency - and we have made moves to make sure its solvent (like Tip O'Neill D-MA, not Ronald Raygun, R-Wormfood, did back in the 80's)

[elizfeelinggreat]

1. "complete utter BS"

Having our side say that to start would help immensely! :)

[Taverner]

2. Yes - I would love to hear that

Because as long as the GOP parrots these inane talking points, they get one or two more people thinking "Wow - maybe I should trust Bohner with my retirement!"

[Frustratedlady]

3. They are attempting to draw our attention from something...

First, Cheney with his rantings and now Social Security. Somebody get Rove on the stand and let's get on with the business of the country. I'm so sick of these creeps, I could spit nails.

[Squatch]

4. With SS, are today's benificiaries being payed with the money invested by tomorrow's?

:shrug:

[rfranklin]

6. No, we have paid more than enough to keep it solvent....

but Reagan and his heirs spent it on bombs and star wars schemes and left those "worthless IOU's" that Bush junior talked about.

[Taverner]

8. Yes - didn't we fix it so its solvent until at least 2014?

[MiniMe]

10. Until 2041 I believe, it is something like 30 years

Another small adjustment is necessary to keep it going. But it is NOT an entitlement program.

[pampango]

15. Today's beneficiaries are paid by the SS taxes paid by today's workers. I worked for SS

from 1979 to 1992 and that's how it worked during that time.

I haven't kept up with SS financing issues since I left there, but the history as I understood it then was that there was a big surplus in the early years because there were relatively few retirees eligible for benefits and more and more workers through the '40's, '50's and '60's and wages grew with little inflation. Beginning in the '70's inflation began to grow and wages stagnated. Since SS taxes are based on wages while benefits increase with inflation, the Trust Fund declined but was still large. The good news beginning in the 1960's was that the baby boom was hitting the work force expanding the number of workers paying SS taxes, while the number of beneficiaries was relatively stable. The large bubble of workers helped the stability of the system.

Of course, the early edge of the baby boom generation will begin to retire soon. That won't have much an impact in the near future, but eventually the bubble will be in the number of retirees rather than in the number of workers (from the mid-1960's to the present) when the baby boomers were paying into SS. The generations after the baby boom aren't as large so there will be some pressure from fewer workers paying SS taxes and more beneficiaries.

There is a Trust Fund that excess taxes have been saved in. I believe it has about $2 trillion in it. It is controversial though, because the only type of investment the Trust Fund is allowed to make is in government bonds. In theory these bonds are earning interest for the Trust Fund. Since the Fund is growing, there has been no need to cash in those bonds to pay benefits. Indeed the Fund keeps buying more bonds. Some worry though that when the time comes that we need to tap into the Trust Fund, all that is there is a bunch of bonds the government kind of owes to itself.

I'm far from being an accountant. I just know that there's not $2.2 trillion in a bank account somewhere. It's all in the form of the bonds which some people worry the government may prove unable or unwilling to repay in the future. Others feel that if you can't trust the government, where would you rather have the money invested.

I'm sure if missed things here. But that's my experience working for SS years ago.

[dflprincess]

5. Capitalism is a Ponzi Scheme

or it is when it's allowed to run wild as it has for the last 30 years.

[liberal N proud]

7. I had two righties talking that same thing yesterday

Geeeze

[OwnedByFerrets]

9. As Thom says, SS is nothing more than an insurance program...

are they calling all insurance programs Ponzi Schemes??

[TahitiNut]

11. Actually, the GOP has mortgaged tomorrow and the market value of tomorrow has fallen.

After mortgaging it, they leveraged the risk on the backs of the working poor and took the money overseas. :shrug:

[FLyellowdog]

12. Are repugs for or against Social Security?

I know someone whose attempt at a small business failed. He's 65 so decided to pull his SS; he has a 4 year old daughter who also gets some of his SS benefits; a wife whose previous marriage somehow entitles her to SS benefits; her two kids from previous marriage are also entitled to benefits. They are making more money now than they ever did working in their business. They love it...and are die-hard republicans! I don't get it. What's to complain about? :shrug:

[ipfilter]

13. Repugs are against it if it goes to someone else. n/t

[FLyellowdog]

14. Looks that way to me too.