Any farmers here? What do you think of terminator seeds?

[yurbud]

Something about that just seems wrong, especially when we force them on farmers in other countries.

[The Straight Story]

1. When you take a renewable source and make it non-renewable

it can have bad affects IMHO.

And I ain't no farmer, but i do garden and I stayed in a holiday inn express last night.

[yurbud]

2. maybe next they'll make terminator people--we'll all be sterile and they'll make new clone when they

think they need them.

[The Straight Story]

3. Don't give em any ideas :) Sadly though, I suspect some already

are thinking along those lines...

[gravity]

4. Free markets mean farmers are free to choose

If terminator seeds are a bad idea for farmers, then they won't purchase them, and instead purchase seeds that will make them the most profit.

They aren't being forced on anyone. Terminator seeds don't even exist on the market yet, and have no plans to do so in the future. If they are ever to be released into the market, they will have to be with seeds whose benefits exceed the cost of the terminator gene, to be competitive in the market.

[yurbud]

7. it also means big companies are free to undercut prices of local business, dump product

then when they have a monopoly, charge what they like.

[LiberalFighter]

8. Farmers are prohibited from using seeds not used in previous year.

Monsanto Sues Farmer Customers Over Piracy Issues

MONSANTO SUES FARMERS OVER 'SINGLE-SEASON SEEDS

Link
So why don't farmers just buy non-GE seed? North Dakota farmer Rodney Nelson says there is actually very little conventional seed left to buy anymore because seed dealers don't make nearly as much money from them.

Even if a farmer decides to stop using Monsanto seeds, the GE plants self-seed and some will spring up of their own accord the following year. These unwanted "volunteers" can keep popping up for five or more years after a farmer stops using the patented seeds.

Under U.S. patent law, a farmer commits an offense even if they unknowingly plant Monsanto's seeds without purchasing them from the company. Other countries have similar laws.

Unfortunately, he adds, there will be no help for farmers from the U.S. Department of Agriculture or the Food and Drug Administration as key positions are occupied by former Monsanto employees and the company has a powerful lobby in Washington.

[gravity]

9. If the seeds are single season seeds

Then they can only be used for a single season. Farmers aren't required to use them however, and there are many options for the farmers to choose from. If the single season seeds are more profitable, then the farmers will choose those.

[yurbud]

10. do you have a link like the guy above you that you disagree with?

[gravity]

12. It's basic economics

Farmers are going to choose what ever makes them the most profit whether it's organic seeds, or GM seeds.

No one is forcing anyone to buy a certain seed over another other. I don't need a link to prove that.

[yurbud]

13. you are assuming no government intervention. But if a business gets big enough, they can

buy politicians to give them tax breaks, subsidies, and even regulatory relief that gives them an advantage over their competitors, like oil and coal over alternative energy.

In farming like other industries, nothing stops them from buying their competitors too, so if someone does figure out how to undercut them, that competitor will either have product dumped in his market or be bought.

[gravity]

15. Your assuming government intervention

What regulations are in place that promote one seed over the other?

[yurbud]

16. did you read the guys article above?

[gravity]

17. Yes

That was government intervention because the farmer broke the contracted agreement with Monsanto. The farmer wasn't forced to buy that seed to begin which is my point. He knew what he was getting when he bought it.

[LiberalFighter]

20. Apparently you didn't read the articles that I posted.

Farmers are forced to buy the seeds because they are limited to what they can buy.

Farmers are being sued for pollination from those seeds that are from another farm.

Farmers are out lobbied by the seed companies and positions in the FDA and Agricultural Dept are held by former Monsanto employees. The laws are made by the seed companies without consideration of the farmers.

[Kali]

14. you seem pretty clueless about the realities of market forces in agribusiness.

Free to choose? Have you really looked into this? Checked with seed suppliers about what is available and at what cost?

[Webster Green]

22. "No one is forcing anyone" ....Are you certain about that?....

What about this?


<snip>
For years, the Iraqis had held samples of such precious natural seed varieties in a national seed bank, located, ironically, in Abu Ghraib, the city made infamous as a US military torture prison site in 2004. Following the US occupation and various bombing campaigns, the historic and invaluable seed bank in Abu Ghraib vanished, a possible further casualty of the Iraq war.

<snip>

Bremer’s Pentagon advisers had very different plans for Iraq’s food future.

The CPA’s Order 81, behind the cover of complicated legal jargon, in effect, turned the food future of Iraq over to global multinational private companies, hardly the liberation most Iraqis had hoped for.

Order 81 on Intellectual Property Rights, was not negotiated between a sovereign government and the WTO, or another government. It was imposed on Iraq without debate, from Washington. According to informed Washington reports, the specific details of Order 81 on plants were written for the US Government by Monsanto Corporation, the world’s leading purveyor of GMO seeds and crops.

More: http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/GMO/Iraq_and_seeds_of_democracy/iraq_and_seeds_of_democracy.HTM

http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=6

And...Iraq isn't the only place that the fascists are trying to privatize the food supply. (water too!)

[gravity]

26. From the article

"The law does not prohibit Iraqi farmers from using or saving "traditional" seeds. It prohibits them from reusing seeds of "new" plant varieties registered under the law. In practical terms, this means they cannot save those seeds for re-use either. The report has been revised to express this more clearly."

Iraqis can use their traditional seeds if they want to.

[Tsiyu]

31. And if the GM seeds sprout on their own?

Nature has it's own rules, independent of the current "bottom-line-slash-and-burn" rules of the new "economics."

For example, a couple can spend a lot of money trying to make babies and still have no baby. Money does not trump the rules of nature.

If we effectively destroy all heirloom and non-hybrid seeds by injudicious and rampant sowing of these experimental crops, all the money in the world and all the laws of economics you can spew won't help.

[Webster Green]

32. Not after they have been contaminated by GMO crap!

And the GMO crap IS being forced upon unwary farmers through their government's co-operation with the globalization hoax, though many have figured out that companies like Monsanto are fucking predators, and are rejecting the globalization/GMO hoax.

Just because the strains are "terminator" and can't make viable seed, it doesn't necessarily mean they can't spread pollen that is contaminated with their GMO terminator crap, thereby cross-pollinating and ruining standard varieties. Non terminator GMO varieties can also cross-pollinate with traditional varieties, and threaten their survival.

You need to study this stuff a little more before you defend these mutherfuckers so vigorously!

[gravity]

35. Terminator seeds aren't even in the market

Those are reasonable concerns about the seeds, and they will only be approved to grow commercially if they pass test confirming they will be safe to grow. But there are not even any plans to even release the seeds for commercial use in the future anyways.

And yes different varieties of seeds can cross pollinate, but it's nothing new and occurred ever since the history of agriculture. The ironic thing is that terminator seeds would prevent genes from entering traditional varieties.

[Webster Green]

36. OK, I'll be waiting for Monsanto to tell me what's safe..

Yeah, right. :eyes:

Do you work for these lying mutherfuckers or what?

[KittyWampus]

25. Farmers face crushing financial burdens if they don't use Monsato

[Webster Green]

5. It's an outrage!

The greedy corporations like Monsanto are trying to seize control of the world's food supply.

Their GMO crap is threatening the bio-diversity of the planet.

They must be stopped!

[yurbud]

11. do you have the lyrics to the rest of that bob marley song?

[Webster Green]

19. Here they are..

6. SMALL AXE

Why boasteth thyself, O evil men;
Playing smart and not being clever, oh no!
I say you're working iniquity
To achieve vanity, yeah, if a-so a-so.
But the goodness of Jah - Jah
Idureth for Iver.

If you are the big tree,
We are the small axe
Sharpened to cut you down, (well sharp)
Ready to cut you down, oh yeah!

These are the words of my master
Keep on tellin' me - o-oh! - no weak heart shall prosper:
Oh no, they can't! Eh.

And whosoever diggeth a pit, Lord,
Shall fall in it - shall fall in it.
Whosoever diggeth a pit
Shall bury in it - shall bury in it.

If you are the big tree,
We are the small axe
Sharpened to cut you down,
Ready to cut you down.
---
/Instrumental break/
---
Whosoever diggeth the pit
Shall fall in it - fall in it, eh!
Whosoever diggeth the pit
Shall bury in it - shall bury in it.

If you are the big tree,
We have a small axe
Ready to cut you down, (well sharp)
Sharpened to cut you down.

If you are the big tree,
Let me tell you this: we are the small axe
Ready to cut you down, (well sharp)
Sharpened to cut you down.

If you have a big tree ... /fadeout/

[yurbud]

38. thanks!

[WindRavenX]

6. The way that they're used for designer crops isn't bad, but yeah, for other countries...

...not such a good plan.

But, they may be a key in safe use of genetically modified crops because they would not be able to propagate.

[MagickMuffin]

18. As someone who grew up on a very small suburbs farm 12 acres

we grew our own food. Potatoes, corn, peas, okra, green beans, and THE BEST TASTING TOMATOES, EVER!
I use to eat them as I was picking them! *If you have only had store bought tomatoes, then by JINGLES go to a local farmer and buy some YUM YUM YUM. Although with the advent of tomatoes injected with fish genes, YUCK!

We bought seed every year from the local feed store. We knew the seeds were reliable as far as safety goes. However, in today's climate I would be more worried about where the seeds came from.

I know a few farmers in west Texas who refuse to use Monsanto seeds because of the Terminator BS.

When you have scientist altering our food supply by altering the genes in the seeds and adding questionable other genes from the animal kingdom then we have a problem.

If anyone is interested they should purchase heirloom seeds. there are a lot of people who are participating in this program to save the planet by saving our natural seeds...

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/

[gravity]

21. I'll agree with you on one thing

Nothing beats a fresh tomato.

All the tomatoes I get from the store this time of year suck.

[DeepBlueC]

24. actually, they suck all year

The tomatoes that go to market are selected for their ability to survive transport and handling. Thick drier skin helps. But the ones that taste good are juicy right up to the thin outer skin and so they squash and split too easily to be a good product for agribiz. The good ones come from home gardens, I find

[gravity]

27. agree

but when the local tomatoes come into season, they are a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

[MagickMuffin]

30. Well there is NOTHING like the REAL DEAL

but even the tomatoes I buy at the market are nothing like ones you grow yourself. The ones from market are NEVER juicy and always mealy/mushy :puke:

I always loved how tomato plants smelled. One of my fondest memories was the smell of Porter tomatoes my granny grew every year. On my little farm he grew Beefsteaks, OMG, those BABIES sometimes weighted over a pound. As the name implies these gems are about 90% tomato meat not as many seeds. DAMN IT, I gotta stop with this madness of remembering the good ole days of REAL agriculture and not this new form of Agribusiness is harming more than just the earth with their lack of understanding of how the EARTH works.

Old Timers use to rotate crops and plant companion crops next to each other. There was also a system of planting crops in groups of three. They planted "weeds" our the pest to munch on, so the main crop wasn't harmed by the pest.

Agribusiness of course don't care about ANY of this because they have DETERMINED they know better than god.

:shrug:

[Cha]

28. Your tomato memories are

making me hungry for the tomatoes I remember on the farm in Indio, CA!

Your link is great for Heirloom Seeds..here's another one.

http://www.seedsofchange.com/enewsletter/issue_42/news.asp

[jilln]

29. I think that's also why food tastes so much better in other countries.

My understanding is that most other countries are still basically organic by default. Anyone who's ever had pineapple or mango from a street vendor in Mexico knows what I'm talking about. It's a completely different fruit from the crap we get here.

[Cha]

23. As a buyer of Organic Produce and

a friend of Organic Farmers for almost 30 years I can tell you that I don't want the podpeople seeds anywhere near me or the Organic Farmers crops.

Why wouldn't we want organic Heirloom seeds to pass down to our families..ad infinitum?

The gmopodpeople want a bunch of sterile, sick, natureless souls wandering our Earth. Fuck mansanto and their cancer giving mission.

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1994Q3/monsanto.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axU9ngbTxKw

http://www.mindfully.org/GE/People-v-Monsanto.htm

[MagickMuffin]

33. Here's an excellent book on GEF

"Eating in the Dark" by Kathleen Hart 2002

Table of Contents:
#01 Force-fed Consumers
#02 Altered Staples
#03 Pusztai's Potatoes
#04 Who's Minding the Garden?
#05 Gunpowder and Corn Embryos
#06 Pesticide in a Spud
#07 Sound Science, Sterile Seeds
#08 Lethal Corn Pollen
#09 Dying on the Vine
#10 Global Food Fight
#11 Seeds of Dispute
#12 Golden Rice
#13 StarLink and Tacos
#14 Future Food Security

I felt compelled to include the chapter titles to show how much she covers in her book.

I know that Frankenfood's is responsible for some of my "NEW FOOD ALLERGIES" that I never ever had in my life. Now corn and peanuts make my legs (from the knee down) to break out in a rash, swell and causes discomfort.

And I'm really concerned about organic food because Agribusiness has such influence in writing the new standards to include the seeds that has pesticides included in them already.

IS THIS SAFE injecting pesticides directly into the seeds?!?!?:shrug:

[blues90]

34. I think these GM and the terminator seeds are an abomination

They are from huge corps like Monsanto and they do contaminate organic crops farmers have the right to grow and people have a right to access real food not GM engineered crap . It's all about the bottom line and none of this GM stuff has been proven not to destroy naturs own or have they been proven safe . It's almost like putting a drug on the market and forcing people to take it at their own risk . We are not test lab products so they can experiment for their profits they are chemical companies who have over the years caused more harm than good .

[GreenArrow]

37. Evil.

.