The Democrats will continue to be too weak as long as there

[mmonk]

are elected Blue Dogs. We're going to keep paying the price for these Trojan horses. We need to make a concerted effort to get Democrats elected in their place. Many more people are going to continue to hurt financially because of these closet republicans.

[ShortnFiery]

1. Exactly. Any money saved from taxes, I'll donate to Progressive Democrats running against Blue Dogs

in their next Democratic Primary.

We need to drain the swamp of these Corporate Loving Critters. :evilgrin:

[FiveGoodMen]

2. You're right.

We need a much better primary season next time around.

Considering how easily Nancy Pelosi -- best buddies of that 'lovely, patriotic family' -- kept her seat this last time around, I'm not too optimistic.

[Fgiriun]

3. The blue dogs

come from conservative districts where it would be unlikely for a true liberal to be elected. As much as I dislike them they are much more useful than having republicans take their place.

[mmonk]

5. People voted for Democrats because they think they are different

from republicans. I live in NC and if someone wants to vote conservative, they choose the republican. I've heard this stuff over and over again but it just doesn't hold water. That is my opinion.

[Zodiak]

11. I'm from a red district, too

And I find the argument ludicrous.

People who vote for Democrats want Democrats, and if they are concerned about conservative issues with the Democrat, it is things like abortion and prayer in school, not how much $$$$ they can make sure the military industrial complex and the corporations get to keep over the People.

It's just a talking point used to ensure inertia on the issue. It is a bromide that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I find it interesting that some on this thread have decided to erroneously call their behavior "moderate". There is nothing moderate about joining ranks with the Republicans to run this country into the dirt to save the Republican's political ass. Nothing. They are traitors to the party and to this country, and are as ideologically married to the far right as the Republicans on economic issues.

Jesus....I used to be called a moderate a long time ago because I had left positions and right positions on issues...and some I had moderate stances. My stance hasn't changed one bit, but suddenly our government and media is so right wing that I am considered far left?

Sorry for ranting all over this thread, but I am so tired of far-right wing policies being forced down our throat by a minority of our party because they run to the Republicans EVERY TIME....and then come to us calling us extremists and themselves moderate. It's bullshit.

[mmonk]

14. Yeah, I went from moderate to liberal to purist to leftist in only a few short years.

Funny thing is I'm pretty much the same.

[Greyhound]

21. Harry Truman said it;

"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time".

This is the fallacy that keeps these fifth columnists among us. They are nothing more than republik infiltrators who work every day to destroy the Democratic party and pervert the principles it was resurrected on.

[Fgiriun]

True..but...

these districts arent moderate but conservative with the possibility of eventually being absolved into liberal leanings. But at the time being the majority of the people who elected Blue Dogs are "looking for a change but arent willing to go all out" to put it frankly.
Note that, in theory, the more money the DCCC puts into such districts the more liberal the candidates will become as the population becomes more educated on democratic ideals.

[Fgiriun]

22. Sorry Double Post

...

[Stinky The Clown]

4. It can also be said "The Republicans will continue to be weak as long as there .....

.... are elected moderates."

I'm not arguing with your essential point. I'd love them all to be gone ..... but they're a fact of life affecting both sides.

[mmonk]

13. Where were these republicans on the major votes?

Where are they on the stimulus?

[FLAprogressive]

17. problem is there are little to no elected Republican moderates

maybe Snowe, Collins, Mark Kirk, and Mike Castle.....

[onenote]

6. and how do you propose to elect more progressive Democrats in these districts?

Take Heath Shuler -- Blue Dog Democrat from the 11th District, NC.

NOrth Carolina as a whole went for Obama. ANd Shuler cruised to victory over a repub opponent. But in the fifteen counties that make up Shuler's district -- I doubt Obama won a majority in any of those counties and I know for a fact that he lost by a more than two to one margin in several of them.

Sure it sounds nice to think that areas that have elected blue dogs would turn around and support more progressive democrats -- but they wont.

[Zodiak]

10. You assume the vote had 100% to do with Obama's ideology

I think that is simplifying the matter quite a bit.

There is his race, the false perception built a bout him and terrorists, Reverend Wright, the false accusations of taking away guns, taking away Bibles, etc. None of that has to do with Obama's ideology at all.

And remember that it does not necessarily take a progressive to vote our way, just someone who is against corporate rule over the People. For that, you could get the populists (Jim Hightower types). You can even get a religious nut who takes the bible so seriously that they wish to stamp out poverty. We give red districts no choice at all....corporatist Republican or corporatist Democrat...then it becomes about personality and how far back their family goes in politics (like the Salazars).

Give 'em a choice....and not on social issues because in conservative areas, those are immutable at the moment. But this is our teaching moment on economic issues, and showing them these Blue Dog assholes as choices only signifies our weakness and unwillingness to trust red areas to make the right decision.

Get populists.....fuck the blue Dogs, and fuck the DLC. Both of them have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted and that they work more for Republicans than the People.

This is a very critical moment in history, and they are siding with Republicans to do the same thing that got us into this mess (tax cuts, rampant military spending). The excuse that no one else can win in those districts looks pretty flipping thin when they are working hard to bring this whole country down, now. It is intolerable to have moles, and the first step to fixing it is to get rid of the moles...we'll figure out how to win their districts after we stop the self-inflicted bleeding these assholes insist on EVERY TIME a big vote comes up. It makes us look weak to the whole country, nevermind the red districts.

[Zodiak]

7. Blue dogs do not always come from red districts

Feinstein and Carper come to mind, both DLCers and both fully corporatist. One from California, the other from Connecticut. There are more.

My wager is that everyone who votes for a blue dog still thinks they are voting in a Democrat. No one actually pays attention to ho they vote once they get in office.

We can replace loads and loads of blue dogs in red districts with populists. You may not like their social positions (Democratic populists do have conservative social values), but it would break the corporate stranglehold big business has over our government. That is where the real damage is done.

A populist would never be trying to remove funding for schools in favor of replacing it with defense money to pad the already largest defense budget in the world.

We owed the New Deal to populists, and it will take populists to give us a new one.

Do not buy into the argument that we will never get rid of these traitors. It is a false dichotomy. There are other kinds of Democrats that can win in red districts, and most of them would not betray our country at its darkest hour in order to suck up to the corporatists.

[Mike 03]

8. mmonk, I always enjoy your posts and you often make great points.

I just don't understand, this time.

What exactly do you think is standing in the way of the republicans supporting Obama's programs?

Is it really our fault? Or is it just insane bipartisanship?

I don't see what we Dems are doing wrong at all! Maybe I'm blind, deaf and dumb, but sheesh, I've watched all the hearings into TARP and the debates in Congress and the Senate.

Is this OUR fault? Really? Explain it to me.

[Still Sensible]

9. Eventually, we will likely be strong enough, but

I think today's choices are we can be strong, more progressive and in the minority, or we can be not as strong, more moderate and in the majority.

Hopefully an election or two from now that can change, but right now I don't think so.

[tnlefty]

12. Lately I've been calling them Yellow-Bellied Republicans.

I'm furious with them. I'm not one for lockstepping on every vote, but this is the first major policy/spending vote of the new President and I can't believe that all of the dems didn't fall in line for this very important FIRST vote. Then I see that damned Ben Nelson parading on the teevee with Collins and giving credence to the opposition's whining, fit pitching as if their ideas have worked and didn't get us in the huge mess we find ourselves in today.

Weakening the President this early is how it appears to me, oh, and just fucking stupid.

[avaistheone1]

15. I think I follow your lead. I plan to call them as you suggest. The label fits those cowards.

[liskddksil]

16. We dont need more Dems we need better Dems

and until we start realizing that we're going to get stuck with this crap.

[MasonJar]

18. They allegedly represent the people in their district. That is what they

are supposed to do Constitutionally. It is unfortunate, but many districts are Blue Doggish. That said I will not give the DCCC any more money while they give it to the Blue Doggers. Just keep one thing in mind a blue dog dem is better than a Goper; the more progressive dems cannot win in many of these districts. What we need to keep our eyes open for are districts where a blue dog could be replaced by a yellow dog who could subsequently win the general. Any we find should be posted on DU so we can support him/her individually. Anyone game? I think that might be true in at least one or two Kentucky districts. I intend to research it. We did manage to replace two pugs with dems in Ky. (in Lexington and Louisville.) Let's keep each other posted!!!!!!!!!1

[nradisic]

19. Stating the obvious...

I totally agree. We must work to elect not just Democrats, but truly progressive Dems...

[Kaleva]

20. Cindy Sheehan tried to replace Nancy Pelosi ...

and got crushed for the effort.

[paulk]

24. Nancy Pelosi is a bluedog?

maybe here in DU neverneverland, but out in the real world she's a liberal...

[RC]

23. North Dakota has two: Conrad and Pomeroy