Should there be some kind of aptitude test before getting in-vitro fertilization?

[B o d i]

I'm trying to boil the heated debate over Octomom down to its essense, so please bear with me.

Just because science makes something possible, does not automatically make it ethical.

Should the only criteria for having a procedure such as having a bunch of fertilized eggs implanted (or even one, for that matter) simply be whether they can afford the procedure itself? Should they be required to demonstrate that if all the eggs came to term they'd have the ability to raise them in a healthy home without being a huge burden on society? It's not just about the money either, though that is part of it. Perhaps have an interview with a psychiatrist who could ask such questions as "Why do you want children now? Why that many children all at once? What do you hope to accomplish? Have you considered adoption? After Pampers stops delivering the free diapers, then what?" and if the prospective parent(s) didn't have a good enough answer they'd be turned away.

To extrapolate a bit further, what if "Mr. Burns" (from The Simpsons, to use a fictional example everyone can hate) wanted 10,000 clones of himself? Should that be legal? He could easily afford 1,000 full time nanny/tutor/drill instructors. But is it ethical? Is it good?

Please try and stay on topic and keep personal attacks to a minimum.



edited for clarity

[uppityperson]

1. No. But I do think there should be limitations on the # embryos transferred, ethically.

Since transferring more than 3 can result in a lot of health issues and "first, do no harm" is a prime part of the Hippocratic oath.

I don't think there should be tests like you say, any more than there should be for any woman who wants to or is pregnant.

[barb162]

2. Yes, the person has to have a functioning brain

Which is a lot more than I can say about a certain parent in the news these days.

[Bluerthanblue]

3. Artificial Insemination and IVF are 2 different procedures- IVF

implants fertilized eggs into the woman, AI is the artificial introduction of sperm into the womans vagina.

AI's been around for a long time. IVF is less than 50yrs old.

[B o d i]

4. Thanks, edited.

I'm not pretending to be an ob/gyn here. I fully admit there is much I do not know about this subject.

That said, this thread isn't so much meant to be about the science as about the ethics. I don't know if there even is a "correct" answer here, but I'm posing the question anyway. Something to think about.

Thanks for your post.

[Bluerthanblue]

6. no problem-

a lot of people make that mistake- As for the ethical question..... well, i have to say I think making rules about who can and cannot receive help conceiving is a pretty controversial/dangerous idea. Is it "my" body or not? How can it be said that we have the right to abort, and then deny the 'right' to conceive? As for implanting 8 embryos- I don't believe any physician would say that was an acceptable thing to do, if only because of the potential risks to the babies and mother.

How about developmentally disabled adults who get pregnant? There was a time in our society where women were sterilized to prevent them from conceiving- Yet there are couples who have married and had children successfully-

Who would set the 'bar'- and who would oversee compliance?

it's a slippery slope imo-

Interesting question though.

:hi:

[northofdenali]

5. Psychological testing at the very least.!

It's pretty obvious this poor woman is fucked up, and her parents aren't much better (though Grandma seems to be about at the end of her rope).

It's required for anyone wanting to adopt or even foster children, and if your child goes to school and reports any (even ill-perceived) psych or physical abuse, count on Child Protective Services to require you to open your entire life to them.

I hate this woman (I know, that makes me a very bad person) because of those poor children. All 8 will more than likely be special-needs kids, and the effects on her other 6 babies can't even be guessed at this time. I also despise the medical(????) people who neglected ethics, responsibility to their oaths, and intelligence in order for this sad situation to occur.

The story keeps unfolding, and the more that's told, the more that is so obviously WRONG.

Those poor babies (all 14 of them).

[elocs]

9. You believe that this woman is "fucked up" and I have thought she is mentally ill

or needs some kind of psychiatric help. Your answer is to "hate this woman". How exactly does your hate impact this woman? Does it hurt her in any way, does your hate for her make your life better or help those new babies? Hate is obviously WRONG.

[northofdenali]

13. I agree that hate is wrong, elocs, and I was pretty up front

and honest about it. I've seen way, way too many abused special needs kids to feel anything but absolute disgust for this woman and her enablers. Hate was probably too strong a word, as I don't personally know her and it's an emotion I generally don't feel. Yes, she's mentally ill - so how in the world did she wind up with 8 implanted embryos, 6 additional children (one autistic) and generate ANY sympathy? Simple. She wound up a media sensation.

My hatred/disgust/sickness about the situation will not change the situation. Neither do any of my emotions have any impact whatsoever - because she is so obviously narcissistic and incapable of feeling anything for anyone but herself (at least from all the articles I've researched, and from the readings that friends who are LSCW's, psychologists and forensic psychiatrists have informed me).

Fucked up is the least this poor woman is. Capable of raising even one child, particularly if that child has special needs? No possible way.

I didn't post this to elicit your attack. I posted it as honesty on my part. I don't believe in hiding who I am or what I think or feel. I do not feel that this warrants vilification from you.

[Breeze54]

7. I think all men that have 2 children should be forced to have a vasectomy. PERIOD!!

:P

AND if they refuse to pay or abscond on child support for the first family
they had, and try to start another? VASECTOMY SHOULD BE MANDATORY!!! ASAP!!

Put a GPS on their D*** !! :rofl:

[northofdenali]

15. Breeze, best giggle so far tonight..........

a GPS? :rofl:

[Hekate]

8. As you will find out shortly from DUers who've had to have assistance with fertility...

... ethical clinics already make prospective mothers (and fathers, if any) jump through a whole lot of hoops. Medical protocol is now tending toward urging implantation of ONE embryo, according to the two docs I heard interviewed on NPR the other day. I very much understand the desire of parents to implant 2 or 3 embryos, because the procedures are hellishly expensive, and they could get all their childbearing over in one shot. But the chances of having dead or damaged babies rises exponentially with each additional baby developing in the womb.

There is a discipline called bio-ethics in the scientific community, but for a long time the assisted reproductive technology branch of medicine has been the Wild West. Laws and regulations have been constructed on the fly, as different cases have come to court (such as the notorious cases of surrogate mothers changing their minds. Finally bio-ethics and laws are both catching up.

Hekate

[ColbertWatcher]

10. For the doctor yes.

LOL for "Octomom."

[NYC_SKP]

11. Yes, of course, some minimal level of mental capacity and stability.

And perhaps a higher standard if the woman ALREADY HAS SIX CHILDREN!!!

Maybe it shouldn't even be allowed.

I've always been concerned about overpopulation, I put the planet before the individual.

:patriot:

[lunatica]

12. Why does the first reaction seem to be to pass laws against everyone

When one idiot does something stupid. This is one woman and one doctor. So now all people need to get tested for aptitude?

I've known college graduates with high IQs who have been lousy parents and I've known people who aren't too smart who make excellent parents. Quit trying to make everyone jump through hoops because a few people do stupid things.

[EFerrari]

14. Yes. The doctor should take one. nt

[B o d i]

16. "First, do no harm" might not be enough? nt