If there were as much outrage and hatred toward the rich as there is toward the woman who has 14...

[JVS]

kids, we'd be much better off as a society.

[MrModerate]

1. Two entirely different things . . .

The woman made decisions that many consider creepy and despicable -- we don't know that about the rich. Many of them created wealth that others share in. You're comparing apples and Volkswagens.

[Hannah Bell]

3. bahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[JVS]

4. It is always the master that enriches the slave, no?

:rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

11. i can't stand liberals. non-stop denigration of individual nobodies,

fed to them by corporate media as hate objects to keep their frustrations focused off the people who are fucking with their lives & property.

& they WORSHIP them, bow down to them, & eat the poison & talk of nothing else.

oh, that *horrible* woman.
those stinky smokers.
evil, evil iraqi woman, hiring out 80 rapes to turn women into suicide bombers.

oh, that nice bill gates & warren buffett, they really want to *help* us.


it's just getting to be too much, we're fucking doomed.

half of them will be guarding the camps, the other half will be in them.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

16. The reason the rich remain unknown except for a few who are too rich to escape attention...

is that if they revealed themselves we'd stop tolerating them

[Hannah Bell]

31. the lady with the 8 babies is bankrupting the nation! the smokers are ruining

the country, blowing smoke on us, giving us cancer, using up all the health care, bankrupting us, stealing our precious bodily fluids!

bill gates & warren buffett will give us jobs! they make good things for us! they are bringing nice vaccines to poor africans with aids!


hohoho! heeheehee!

liberals, they are a riot.

[bobbolink]

141. And don't forget poor people who use up all the resources, and cheat and lie ...

Yup, Big Dog was right!

Kill the poor people, and save the country!

[blindpig]

63. Recommended . n/t

[TahitiNut]

64. Well said.

:applause:

[anaxarchos]

79. Don't worry... be happy.

We aren't doomed. We make shit. People who make shit are never doomed. Those who need to find others to make shit for them... well, they are kinda "doomed".

So... the Athenians kept losing and losing and losing to the Spartans during the Peloponnesian War and then they had a revelation: Spartans don't work; Slaves work. So the Athenians cut off the the supply of Spartan slaves and waited.

Sure enough, the Spartans talked and strategized, and came up with various schemes but in the end they started starving to death because, "Spartans don't work; Slaves work."

Dumb fucks.

Of course, the same scheme would have worked just as well on the Athenians...

On the other hand, the most loyal of the Spartan slaves didn't react in the same way. The helots went into perpetual revolt.

Hunger does indeed focus the mind.

[Hannah Bell]

107. If only it were so. Most of us here, however, make stacks of paper & don't know how to

change our own oil.

Moi, por ejemplo.

I'll be first in line when they cull the 'useless eaters.'

[anaxarchos]

110. Wasn't makin' an argument for diesel mechanics....

"Work" is whatever it is deemed to be by the prevailing culture - as are the social relations of work.

Stacks of paper or stacks of sheet steel... it's the same, except in the mind of the 'papermaker' (especially if they give up a cute little cubicle with fine office furniture).

No deje que los pendejos llegar a usted.

[roguevalley]

82. that woman was horrible in what she did. She had eight kids with

six more and no job, bankrupted her parents who bought her her house and then had to move in with her when their finances went south under the burden. She has eight kids facing cerebral palsy, blindness and developmental difficulties that are life long because she 'took a chance'. Her words. She decided to go for broke because she 'wanted to be a mother'. Six kids already at home should have fulfilled that. She did a horrible thing. Those kids are beyond her ability to care for them without huge assistance. Of course, she is going to 'be present with them' whatever the hell that means.

The doctor who did this should lose their license. This woman did a bad thing, not only for her kids who will live their lives burdened by her ineptness and stupidity and society and the earth who cannot sustain this shit. She EVEN WANTS ONE MORE!

This sucks.

Also, too damned many rich idiots are running amok and I don't hear ANYONE defending them. I agree that this is apples and oranges. Its possible to hate Bernie Madoff with the same intensity. We are dems. We can do two things at the same time. Trust me.

[Two Americas]

90. so what?

The reason this is not apples and oranges, is because there are political implications in both - the apologies for and deference to the wealthy, and the vicious and obsessive attacks on some common person somewhere who has been presented to us by the MSM as an appropriate target for expressing disgust and hatred toward.

It is the right wing, and their wealthy and powerful clients, who want us to think in terms of individuals and "personal choices" because that precludes thinking about power and economics. Since power and economics are what politics is about, that means we are not thinking or talking about politics. We may as well get our political ideas from People magazine.

People like to say that "we can do two things at the same time." The problem is that they are trying to do two contradictory things at the same time.

Notice how this works. One example of "bad" things from a working class person is used to invalidate the aspirations and needs of all working class people. One example of "good" things from a ruling class person is used to defend and apologize for the actions and position of all ruling class people.

We should be alert to that, because that is the trick of logic that has always been used to defend entrenched wealth and power, and we see it employed here constantly.

As an example from history, opponents of Abolition said "not all slave owners are bad" and held up examples of "good" slave owners. That was meant to say that since not all slave owners were bad, therefore we should not "hate" slave owners, therefore the Abolitionists were wrong. Then, they would say "not all slaves are saints" and would hold up examples of "bad" slaves and say "see? People are people, and one group is no better than the other, so we should take the 'middle' course and not be radical and we should not support either group." That meant that since not all slaves were good, therefore we should not "romanticize" slaves, therefore the Abolitionists were wrong.

This imagined middle ground, based on the idea that there were those who supported the slave owners, and those who supported the slaves, and that both were "extremists," was simply a way for people to support slavery without having to take responsibility for that. Supporting the "middle" is to argue for leaving things the way they are, and that means power and wealth stay in the hands they are now in. That is support and defense of the upper class agenda, and that means supporting and defending the political right wing. You can't do that and claim to support the "opposition" at the same time.

Today, the "middle" and "centrist" arguments are the most powerful and effective way to support the right wing agenda, since they are so deceptive and alluring. People will give them consideration and grant legitimacy to them because of cowardice - it is a way out of the dilemma, a way to avoid telling the truth, and that alleviates people from having to take any risks or responsibility. It provides a way for a person to imagine that they are "against" what the right wingers are doing, without being called upon to actually fight the right wingers. That is why the Democratic party and liberalism are so ineffective and impotent.

[JVS]

129. This is a very good post. Sadly it seems to have been ignored by most of the people in this thread.

[bobbolink]

143. Truth gets ignored. It's too painful to think about. That's why we poor people are left

in isolation.

[tigereye]

97. do you get to decide who has children?

:shrug: No, it's not what most sensible people would do. But often the desire to have kids isn't sensible. Do we want an army of bureaucrats deciding these things?

[Hannah Bell]

106. THIS IS A NO-OCTUPLET-MOM-TALK ZONE. DESIST!

[tigereye]

108. who says you get to decide what is said? And I wasn't talking to you.

and cool it with the caps, that's pretty rude.

[Hannah Bell]

109. mom talk = prolesheepfood! back to the matriz with it!

RUDE, YES!

[tigereye]

112. and your reason would be? Are you a parent? I am and I'll discuss whatever

I choose to, and do it in a civil fashion. You would be well-advised to do the same.

[Hannah Bell]

118. back 2 the matriz, 5 minute hate starts soon.

[bobbolink]

144. Gotta love that authoritarianism!

I guess Michelle approves.

:eyes:

[Sheets of Easter]

122. What the hell is a matriz? Is that Spanish?

[AndrewP]

114. Well said.

[bobbolink]

139. You got it right.... and some of us are the targets of that liberal hate.

And some of us just plain give up.

[MrModerate]

6. We'll, that's a cogent response.

In turn, yo mama wears dusty sneakers.

Or whatever.

[bobbolink]

146. "We'll" what....? Is that "cogent"?

What are "we'll" gonna do?

[scarletwoman]

88. Have I told you lately that I love you?

Because I really do love you. You're one of my favorite DUers EVER!

Damn, you're good!

:loveya:
sw

[JVS]

7. It was rich people who decided to eliminate millions of jobs.

This woman and her babies didn't steal the livelihood from anyone.

[MrModerate]

9. "The rich" is millions of different people . . .

With wildly different motivations, impacts, histories, behaviors, etc., etc.

Any statement that starts "It was rich people who . . ." is by default, fatuous.

And the lady has blown a huge hole in the budget of the hospital where her children are being treated, of necessity interfering with delivery of care to others. Her behavior is not impact-free.

[JVS]

10. Yes. Millions of various parasites! Much greater a danger than one woman with many kids.

The rich are systematically destroying us. This woman is not capable of such a disaster. It has been the rich, acting through their companies, that have destroyed many more hospitals.

[MrModerate]

12. Sorry, now I have to trot out my Salvador Dali story . . .

Many years ago, talk show host Dick Cavett had artist Salvador Dali on his show. The great man was warbling and queeping along unintelligibly about the whichness of what, and Cavett -- who knows bad television when he commits it -- was trying to bring the conversation back into the realm of meaningful dialog. Dali would have none of it and Cavett grew increasingly desperate to avoid drowning in piffle.

But he was doomed. He had no choice but to reach into his bag of tricks and, bringing one finger to his lips, uttered the immortal phrase (not original with him, of course): "wubba-wubba-wubba."

That ended the conversation rather dramatically, with Dali storming off in high pique, and Cavett left alone on the set to entertain his audience in the remaining minutes of the program. Which he did reasonably well, dusting off one of the standup routines he had abandoned when he made the jump to television.

I now emulate Mr. Cavett: Wubba-wubba-wubba.

[JVS]

15. If you have nothing sensible to say, get out of my thread.

Sometimes I miss the block function.

[MrModerate]

18. Oh goody! I win!

A little unasked-for advice: humorlessness and bullshit is an ineffective combination. It makes people want to poke you with a stick, not join you in a hearty chorus of "Right On!"

[Hannah Bell]

17. go back to the matrix where the stupid story seems humorous.

[MrModerate]

19. I have empirical evidence that 's a great story.

However, my test audience excluded angry doctrinaire twits, and so probably missed your demographic.

[Hannah Bell]

22. go back to the matrix, you're lamer than lame in this thread, you don't belong.

go talk about people having too many babies & ruining the world the nice rich people made for us.

[MrModerate]

25. Let's see . . . "lamer than lame," "The Matrix," . . . "the nice rich people" . . .

You really are at the top of your game tonight, aren't you?

[1Hippiechick]

50. I bow before the new Thread Monitor Queen. Your Highness. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

53. i will not run; if elected, i will not serve.

i acknowledge the simple truth; the poster's humor is not funny in this time zone; it belongs in the usa version 4 zone, aka the matriz.

[Hannah Bell]

14. no, the truly rich are not millions. no.

and they are very similar. they live in the same rarified atmosphere, they go to the same schools, they have the same sense of entitlement, they run the fucking world & they think they own it, & you, & they want to keep on running it.

[JVS]

29. I'd say that there are millions. We have a population of 300,000,000. At least 1% are rich.

So we're dealing with a number of at least 3,000,000

[Hannah Bell]

30. "rich" is nothing. the rich work for the super-rich.

[JVS]

32. You're overlooking a lot of small fries

For every McDonald's there is some rick fuck who ponied up the dough to get the franchise. They might not be fabulously wealthy, but they're still parasites.

[Hannah Bell]

34. i don't care about some doofus with a local mcdonald's franchise.

i care about the lizard people running the world mafia franchise.

in my experience, people with fast food franchises actually do some work, rather than scam, steal, manipulate their phony "capitalist economy", start wars & run mass psyops.

[JVS]

36. I care about all of them. The system is made up of doofuses with franchises.

They're the footsoldiers in the operation.

[Hannah Bell]

37. gotta start a different thread for franchisee-hating.

nope, i don't hate on people who work, even if they're deluded.

unless they hate on people with less power than them.

in that case, their tasty fast food must be confisticated & given to the poor.

[JVS]

39. This is my thread, and it's about hating rich people. Not just powerful rich people.

[Hannah Bell]

43. if they're not powerful, they're not really rich.

[JVS]

45. Yes they are rich, they merely have richer members of their class doing the heavy political lifting

There are people who are not filthy rich who still make decisions that ruin the lives of other citizens. They are worthy of hatred.

[Hannah Bell]

49. well, we will agree to disagree. my suspicion is, when the true

history of the world is written, we'll all be surprised.

[roguevalley]

83. you can hate rich people and you CAN be mad at dumb fucks

who think 14 kids and no prospects is a good idea in the world we live in. Australia is in its death throes and that is the prelude for the rest of us. 14 kids, eight probably developmentally impaired is ok? No. Its not ok. You don't do that to innocent children. I hate the rich asswipes that did this to us and as someone who taught kids for 27 years, I can loathe the selfishness of this damned woman and what she did to these kids.

[tigereye]

98. everyone who has a business or franchise is a parasite?

I hope you are being facetious, JVS.

[eilen]

131. I hope not

One of my dreams is to own a business in which I can employ my neighbors and people like that octomom (well, not her because she is a delusional entitlement nutjob intent on becoming some kind of commercially sponsored freakshow, but maybe her neighbor who has one child and problems with getting her child support).

Not to be wealthy, just to build something that produces value to others that enables people to get by and pay their bills.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

65. thank you--blanket indictments are naive regardless of who

is doing the hurling.

plus I just gotta love anyone who uses the word "fatuous"

:D

[anaxarchos]

80. Serial Killers?

Torturers? Child Molesters?

Is it wrong to blanket-ly indict them?

Well, you might protest that it is not a fair comparison because those who I name are "indicted" because of what they do and not because of who they are...

Yep...

[MrModerate]

113. Yes, it is wrong to cast blanket indictments if . . .

by indictment you mean a carefully prepared statement of facts and reasoned suppositions of guilt.

What I've seen in this thread is mindless angry prattle about "the rich," the closest definition of which I've been able to extract being "anyone more successful than me."

[anaxarchos]

120. Well, don't mind me...

Just play on through.

Your comment, Mr. Middle, has nothing to do with what I wrote, which implied the exact opposite of your - forgive me - prattle.

To be rich is not just a personal but a social description (since you ask for "definition"). It implies that you live by the labor of others... by virtue of what you own and not by virtue of what you do. As such, to be rich requires no "carefully reasoned suppositions of guilt". It is simply true, a priori.

So too, the "hatred" of the rich is also a social hatred. It is a hatred of the fabrication by the rich of a society in their own image... one which is antithetical to the interests of those who are not rich. Not only is that "valid", politically, but it is as old as politics itself and is nearly synonymous with it.

If you want to support the rich, that is your choice. It is a political choice. It does not make those who hate the rich "mindless" or less "carefully reasoned" than you. Quite the opposite, they would be mindless if they didn't... given the present circumstances.

Instead of debating whether the slaves should hate the slavemaster, you want to debate whether Bill Gates is a "good guy" or not. 'Snot the point.

You might want to revisit your own "careful reasoning".

[BlancheSplanchnik]

133. BURN THE WITCH BURN THE WITCH.

I don't want to debate whether bill gates is a good guy, and not so much whether the slaves should hate the slavemaster.

My main concern in this thread is the rallying call to mob-think and violence.

[anaxarchos]

136. Well, then, you must be supporting the OP.

What has U.S. foreign policy been, for two generations, but a "rallying call to mob-think and violence"? Islamo-fascists, Communists, Narco-Terrorists, Socialists... where are the witches that haven't been trotted out one after another? What about internally to the "homeland"? Illegal-immigrants, welfare cheats, homeless people, criminals, gays, 'racial minorities'...

And who do we blame for this? Look around and you will find universal criticism of the Republican Party, the unapologetic expression of the political power of "the rich". You will also find deep disillusionment with the Democratic Party, in which many place their hopes, but which as many also see as being contorted "beyond recognition" by the rich... lobbyists, bankers, drug interests, energy interests, "health" interests.

What about the 15 million unemployed (maybe 20)? What about the 20 million more that can no longer retire and the 50 million who are one illness away from poverty? Who is responsible except for "the rich"... or do you hold to collective guilt - "we" are "all" responsible? There ain't no "we".

The good news is that the rich, unlike witches, cease to be rich when they no longer have the means to be rich, and to use that richyness to exclusive advantage. No "mob-think" (which is what every expression of popular politics has always been called) or "violence" is required, though rallying calls certainly do come in handy. This is a property question, going back as far as history itself.

You have no "moral high ground" here, no matter what you may protest. Your universal screed against wholesale indictments is actually a highly selective partisanship.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

142. and you must support a vigilante mentality--

here have some scarlet paint and go lynch people whom you label with swift and sure resolve.

For all your wordiness, that is all you are advocating.

[anaxarchos]

147. And you...

For all your lack of wordiness (except for the inflammatory kind), all you can come up with is more analogies which don't fit. It is the rich who have been doing the "lynching" and when someone rises to protest, there you are to prevent "blanket indictments'. That is as far as you are willing to go. It's not FAIR to bug the rich... but, everything else is A-OK.

[MrModerate]

152. Well you've certainly gone to a lot of effort to demolish arguments . . .

That I never made. Which characterizes much of the froth I'm finding in this thread.

And despite your dismissal of "definitions" as something barely worth your notice, they are really quite useful when attempting to discuss issues. Essential, actually.

So, to be rich is to live by the labor of others. Which conveniently takes entertainers and sports figures out of the picture, since they clearly make their money by their own labor. And eliminates the idle rich living off inheritances, since their money comes from labor stolen so long ago that the statute of limitations has surely elapsed. And Wall Street whizzes, since their wealth is entirely made up of funny money that has the magical quality of being spendable and illusionary at the same time. So we're pretty much down business owners and drug lords, whose interests are far from antithetical of the non-rich since the owners absolutely depend on the non-rich for their continuing wealth.

When examined, your stuttering Marxist-lite piffle just evaporates: "I exist, so I am guilty."

I buy the notion that you hate . . . someone . . . for something. But until you can focus on concepts more defined and actionable than "hate the rich" and other hoary old slogans that were pointless even in their day, you'll be little more than a faint buzzing noise.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. I find the rich and greedy 'creepy and despicable'.

:evilgrin: Many create wealth that only the wealthy share in. That would be the correct way of putting it.

[MrModerate]

44. I'm happy for you . . .

Do you find apples and Volkswagens equally creepy and despicable?

[Hannah Bell]

48. that joke is only funny in the matrix. go there, now!

[Hannah Bell]

2. hear hear. why is that crap on the news? it's not news. it's sheep fodder.

[JVS]

5. Damned Iraqi furriner anchor-baby spewing welfare queen.

It's a tradition. Sad to see so many suckers falling for it just because someone managed to put an eco-conscious social liberal window dressing on this.

[roguevalley]

84. fuck that. I am concerned about the problems that always come

with super twins: blindness, cerebral palsy, mental and developmental defects. How about this ass having six kids and not finding 'fulfillment' there? I find her sick and dangerous to her kids. She wants more by the way. Did you know that? I pray for those kids. What a life they are going to have as they struggle to grow up with their problems.

[tigereye]

101. I've worked with the kids of a number of women who probably had too many

children they could not take care of, were unable to set rules for, abused drugs or alcohol, had kids who had serious developmental delays, used a lot of community resources and often had children taken from them by the state or county.


But fortunately we can't always predict who those folks will be and stop them from continuing to procreate, and I'm not sure I would want to.



At least this woman has some resources, supports, education and desire to raise these kids.

[MrModerate]

8. And you think the media *isn't* in the sheep fodder business?

You haven't been paying attention.

[Hannah Bell]

20. i obviously know it's in the sheep fodder business.

my wonderment is at how many supposed human beings & 'democrats' are here chewing up that crap, over & over, like it was nutritious food.

doing the 5 minute hate on smokers, baby makers...people who use more than their share of toilet paper...

[LaurenG]

21. Why hate the rich or the lady

both of them have something going on in their lives (heads)that makes them crave excess. No need to hate them. :shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

24. i hate people who kill my friends & family & neighbors like flies, that's why.

i hate people who mystify the world so those who live in it don't even know how it works.

so should you.

[LaurenG]

35. What? Go right ahead in your hate

You won't get that from me, I won't be piling on. Hate has never created peace.

[Hannah Bell]

38. ooh. be the change you want to see. you make the road by walking.

each one, teach one. a hand up, not a hand out. all you need is love.

do they never run out of useless, lying platitudes, these people of the matriz?

[LaurenG]

59. ?

Good luck in that venomous world you've created. You poor dear.

[ProfessorGAC]

23. So, Can't Have An Opinion About Both?

That seems rather insulting on your part.
GAC

[JVS]

26. Read closer. I said as much outrage. If you want to be pissed off at some nobody who did...

something, go right ahead.

[ProfessorGAC]

124. So, You've Got Nothing But Insults

Got it.
GAC

[JVS]

128. You come in here. You claim to be insulted by reading into my OP content that wasn't there...

and then you claim it's an insult when I remind you to look at the text closer because it doesn't support your claim that I've implied you're not capable of hating both.

So, you've got nothing but your phony umbrage.
Got it.
JVS

[Hannah Bell]

27. go make your own thread for people who want to hate on everything.

this is only for dumping on the super-rich & those who love them.

[JVS]

28. Exactly. Fuck the rich and their house proles

[ProfessorGAC]

125. I Was Right

You've got nothing but insults since you think people can't opinions about more than one thing at a time.

How convenient and intellectually lazy of you.
GAC

[eridani]

33. There is. Bring on the gullotines! n/t

[Hannah Bell]

41. slight problem. if you don't know who your enemy is, how do you bring them

to justice?

these people, we do not know who they are. they prefer it so.

[JVS]

42. Which is why you have to start with the small scale rich people who you can find.

Looking for some kind of puppet master is a waste of time. They'll reveal themselves when you start going after their system

[Hannah Bell]

46. so you suggest wild anarchist bands burning mcdonald's franchises will take down world capitalism.

nah, just a hiccup.

alienates neighbors & potential allies.

small businesspeople get the shaft in the global economy, you know.

they are disappearing, & being made to disappear.

[JVS]

52. It's not our job to protect small business.

By erroneously restricting your definition of rich to a very few, you make them into an abstraction, a fairytale that is far away and people cannot conceptualize. The front line is always where the factions meet. You're concentrating on the HQ of the enemy which cannot be reached until later. People need to take over the McDonald's, take over the factory, and take over the office. It doesn't matter whether the person from whom they take control is worth $3,000,000 or $30,000,000,000

[Hannah Bell]

55. you're trying to talk revolutionary strategy in a thread that began

as a goof. i don't talk about serious things without choosing my words carefully & i'm not up for it at 5 am.

[rug]

102. Don't worry, that has as much to do with revolutionary strategy as a comic book.

[Abq_Sarah]

89. It's not your business to take them down either

I'm not a McDonalds franchisee but I am a small business owner and I can tell just from your attitude any company you "took over" would be run into the ground in short order and then you'd be casting about looking for someone to blame for your actions.

Irrational hatred doesn't put a roof over your head or food in your stomach.

[JVS]

154. I'm not one of your employees. Don't tell me what to do

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eridani]

47. Let's start with Cheney and Maddoff n/t

[Hannah Bell]

51. can't kill the undead.

cheney = vampire
madoff = golem

[eridani]

54. Geez. Such a party pooper!

Point taken. I think a lot of the rage around here is from being fucked over and not knowing for sure anything Obama can get Congress to do will actually work.

[Hannah Bell]

56. i agree.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

66. JVS answers your ? in # 42

You find any small weak individual representing the large scheming unknown who you can easily focus your hate against.

Then you expel your hate.

Like the Witch Trials; like the French Revolution; like the KKK

the madness of crowds.........

[stray cat]

57. I pay for both of them right?

[MicaelS]

58. Just curious.. how do you define rich?

Is it simply a dollar figure in the bank? It is everything they own including their house, cars, clothes, etc? Because if you set the figure too low, you're going to be including a great deal of middle class professionals, many of whom are progressive.

[serrano2008]

60. what's the cause and effect of some people being rich and others being poor?

Rich people are not the cause of people being poor.

Some rich people do take advantage of poor people and make more money on them and they are bad, but this isn't because they're "rich" it's because they're dishonest.

There is no cause between MOST people who are "rich" being rich and MOST people who are "poor" being poor.

[treestar]

61. It's because nobody wants to do what octomom did, but everyone

wants to be rich and secretly thinks they will be one day and knows they won't really want to share at that point.

We have to find the excesses of the rich as sickening before we get to that point. One would think the life of paris hilton would do it - it's pretty disgusting.

[Control-Z]

95. I agree that most everyone

wants to be rich. I don't agree that we won't really want to share, though. I think most of us believe we would manage wealth better than the wealthy.

I also think a lot of the outrage over octomom is her perceived scheme, or scam, to become one of the wealthy through unethical means.

Using children for personal gain is considered socially unacceptable by most of society. That she dared to do something the average person finds reprehensible, and may indeed end up rich because of it, is a hit below the belt to most of us. There are a lot of women who love babies. A lot of us may have felt disconnected or lacking in our childhood or lives. Most of us would love to find a way to get rich. But the love we have for our children, a true take on reality, and a grasp on what is right and wrong, prevents us from going Octomom's route, or even that of many of the wealthy.

A lot of rich people have stepped over the line to achieve their wealth. I think octomom is simply a transparent example of what some people are willing to do for their own personal gains.

[Baikonour]

62. It's ironic, really

Because she's using those kids to GET rich.

[1776Forever]

67. BINGO - I sure hope things work out for the innocent children - I hope the Dr "hangs" though.

He is the problem here - without his "help" she couldn't have had 8 kids. I think she needs to have therapy too. Honestly not being mean spirited. I really hope it does work out for all concerned. It is a tragic situation when you look at the big picture.

[Hannah Bell]

99. take the mom discussion to the mom threads. no mom talk here!

are 10 threads about some poor deluded girl not enough, must every thread be invaded by tabloid mind control sheep fodder?

[wroberts189]

69. I have outrage towards WS execs/elites, but the woman I can only hope the best for .

Despite incredibly poor judgment and irresponsibility.

We have decided to have no kids to help overpopulation yet we will all as a nation subsidize these kids.

And for all we know they are headed to Jesus camp.

[Hannah Bell]

100. NO MOM TALK! BACK TO THE MATRIX WITH IT!

UNCLEAN!

[Dora]

70. Definitely a point worth discussing. nt

[The2ndWheel]

71. One difference might be that

a lot of what is done about the rich is just attempting to get some of what the rich have. The rich wouldn't be rich if most people didn't agree on what wealth is. We accept their reality. Why? Answer that question, and I think we'd understand why there might not be as much outrage.

[anonymous171]

72. WTF!? What a fucked up worldview you have there. The class war is the root of most of our problems

Not some crazy woman who has children in order to fulfill her needs as a person.

EDIT: Holy crap I read that wrong. Please disregard this post. I agree with OP.

[anaxarchos]

73. There we have it...

"The class war is the root of most of our problems"... Agreed.
...but war is simply the continuation of politics by other means.

So...

Class politics is the root of most of our problems...
...but politics is always rooted in reality - real conditions.

So...

Class is the root of most of our problems...
...which class am I in?

Well, it ain't the rich...

So...

Hating the rich is exactly what is called for...

So... the OP is exactly correct.

Love it when you can close the circle.

[gongsnotbongs]

74. There may be a class war, but there is an unequal distribution of wealth

(You must be one of those top one percenters, eh?:crazy:

[anonymous171]

75. I wish. nt

[Iggo]

76. There is.

Rich folks just have more people defending them.

[JVS]

77. Touche

[Tutonic]

78. Agreed.

[marlakay]

81. The problem is that some rich are good like Gates giving

money away so you can't put them all in the same pile. but a single woman with no money having that many kids i think should be against the law. At least by the method she did. It would be one thing if she had 14 pregnancies naturally. Sorry thats my opinion. Its us taxpayers who end up paying for the millions of dollars it will cost to raise them and have them in the hospital.

I am pro choice but I have a huge problem with someone putting a bunch of babies inside them and then aborting some just out of preference.

Have we become a society of pick and choose our children? Let me see I will take one with blue eyes and blond hair...oh i don't want that one, it will be sickly. Let's kill it.

Its one thing if it happens naturally and you abort in the first few months...a whole other thing if you are choosing to put a bunch inside you at same time.

[Hannah Bell]

103. I *knew* someone would get around to defending bill gates!

Sure, if you think Bill Gates should be in charge of africa's agricultural policy, if you like charter schools, genetic modification, patents on life forms, Monsanto, watered stocks, & covert operations - why then, bill gates is *your* man!

myself, i hope he has a heart attack before he can clone himself.

[old mark]

85. I don't see "hatre" toward that person, but I am aghast that a

doctor allowed this to happen.
This woman has serious psychological problems and her children's well being has been threatened simply by having so many of them born at once.

I don't hate her, but I don't think she is a fully capable, functioning person, and she should not be allowed play with the lives of her 14 kids.

Her doctor is a fucking idiot.

mark

[Hannah Bell]

104. NO MOM TALK!

[MellowDem]

86. More hatred = a better society?

Don't want to live in that society, brother.

[Hannah Bell]

105. Oh the irony. You're soaking in it.

[MellowDem]

151. I don't understand what you're trying to say...

how is it irony? Not all rich people are deserving of hate. No one is deserving of hate, really.

But according to this logic, I should hate Bill Clinton, Al Gore, the Obamas, the ancestors of Dr. King, I could go on you know. If only all the world's problems could be placed on one group's shoulders, it would be easy to solve them, right?

[mitchum]

87. I'm pretty catholic in my hatred of people, but we misanthropes are like that

[LisaL]

91. Off with their heads? That's been tried before, and never led to any good.

[anaxarchos]

111. Says who?

Obviously those who are nervous about the robustness of their head-body attachments.

It was certainly no good for this guy, but not so bad for everyone else:

[Initech]

92. Do you read the same DU that I do?

I mean shit - every time this topic comes up there are at least 500 posts from pissed off DUers on this subject. There is a public sentement about this and it is mostly negative.

[Howzit]

93. Define rich, if you please?

To a starving person, anyone who eats 3 times a day is "rich".

Hating "the rich" is a form of prejudice. How about knowing more about each individual before you write them off as a waste of space?

[BlooInBloo]

94. Next to Democrats, there's nothing DUers hate more than the rich....

At least the latter is a bit more reasonable.

[KoKo]

117. Oh...get over yourself....n/t

[JI7]

96. there is hatred towards people like Madoff , those CEOS who took and want bailout

do you want hatred towards the rich in general ? because that's not going to happen. just as many are not going to view most single parents the way they do this woman with a bunch of kids.

[Mike 03]

115. Absolutely, we have to despise the rich, so that people like Obama could not

afford to get elected.

Thank you for your genius, and kick and rec....

[KoKo]

116. I've ignored it. I know there are issues there ...but her name sounds Arab...so the media is hyping

it as the latest "Fallen Woman" thingy. They want her stoned they want her villified.

It's just more Media Propaganda in our face and her name is Suleman. Which they so cleverly left out until the last.

It's sickening...I can't even read the DU Posts. Not only are the titles anti Female Right to Choose they are just "Low Life."

Although, I do understand the issue that if her docter gave her that many embryos that she couldn't support he should be up for some kind of Ethical Enquiry...I still believe it is just a media driven issue to go against a woman. There were DU'ers who called her babies "A Litter."

Disgusting...and I'm just going to call it the way I see it whether thousands of fellow DU'ers agree or disagree. The COVERAGE is DISGUSTING.

[eilen]

132. She sought out media coverage and hired a publicist.

She is negotiating media outlets and book deals. She is looking for sponsors. This is not some young woman by chance ended up with four sets of twins at once. This happened by design.

In my old city neighborhood there is a family that had 13 kids. There were two sets of twins but in general, the parents were old time Polish/Catholic and they had a big family. About half way through, the mother really lost interest in raising them and they practically raised themselves. The father, when not procreating was working all the time and they were poor.

Some of the kids did very well for themselves and went to medical school, law school. Others went to jail for selling drugs. Some had businesses. A couple moved away but still, there were many that stayed in the area. In school they had a reputation and kids made fun of them for having dirty clothes or not being well groomed/good hygiene. Amazingly, the mother is still alive, the father has been gone for some time. The only reason that things worked is because the older children took responsibility for the younger ones the best they could.

Having big families like this was common and a good thing when people lived in agrarian communities.

This situation is crazy because the kids are all the same age and yes, she did have a litter of children because they were in one pregnancy.

[TZ]

119. Yes hatred and bigotry is a liberal value.

:sarcasm:

[DrCory]

127. JVS Isn't a Liberal N/T

[MasonJar]

121. Being rich is not wrong. Many who are rich do a lot of good. Noblesse oblige! The woman

mentioned must be mentally ill. She has no job. She sponges off her parents at age 30 something. She expects them to support her and her brood. Her father is supposedly going to have to go back to Iraq to make more money. I am sure her mother will have to help her with the children. Could one person conceivably take care of 8 infants and 6 more under age 7?

[Hannah Bell]

123. the baby-woman is destroying the nation!!! 5-minute hate in progress!!!

jobs & houses are disappearing!! the irresponsible baby-maker is the cause!!!

your masters simply cannot afford such parasitism!!!

[ProfessorGAC]

126. That's Not As Clever As You Think It Is, Hannah

GAC

[Hannah Bell]

130. about as clever as the baby critiques professor

[barb162]

134. Maybe you should support and enable her irresponsbility for a year.

And no, she is not destroying the nation but she sure is a mental case who acts out her obsessions.

[Hannah Bell]

thanks for weighing in, i think you're only the 700th person to say so.

[Hannah Bell]

148. thanks for weighing in, i think you're only the 700th person to say so.

[barb162]

135. I think there is probably as much outrage against the rich

as against the woman.

[Ardent15]

137. Wall Street can go fuck itself

[Occam Bandage]

138. Yes, our society would be much better if only we could somehow increase the level of hatred. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

140. No, actually, that's not true.

We'd be in a state of abject poverty and tyranny.

[backwoodsbob]

145. so EVERY rich person is some ass who deserves to lose it?

wow..glad you aren't in charge

[ColbertWatcher]

149. THANK YOU!

THANK YOU!

[JVS]

150. You're quite welcome.

[JVS]

153. Kick against the rich

[jmg257]

155. When that baby-popping ass gives me a job, then I will think about it. nt