Apparently they cut out spending for

[madaboutharry]

recreation and libraries from the stimulus bill. This is what is wrong with America. The republicans do not give a shit about the quality of life of the average American. They don't care if libraries have no money. They don't care if children whose parents can't afford to belong to country clubs or spend $20,000 on a swimming pool or send them to summer camp have nowhere to play or to go in the summer. They don't care if there is no place in communities for people to come together and try to find some joy in life.

I hate these people, I really do. They have ruined this country.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. "I hate these people, I really do. They have ruined this country."

K&R just for that line.

[Hepburn]

8. Another K&R for that line alone! n/t

[indepat]

23. They have ruined this country with much malice of forethought: yet Dems, although now controlling

the Executive and both branches of Congress, keep bending over to get royally corn-holed time and time again thereby letting 'pukes continue to set the national agenda, as they largely have since the '50s, although surely all of us can see where that has brought us to this point in our national history. :P

[truedelphi]

25. Your post is so true, and it leaves many of us scratching our heads

Wondering why the Repugs stick together while the Dems don't.

When Bush took his (stolen) win in 2000, he didn't say, "This win means that some Dems crossed over to vote for me - so I should be bi-partisian." No, rather than that, he said time and again that he needed to make his politcial moves in terms of his base.

We are Obama's base. Yet we have been sold out by his appointments of Geithner, Rubun and Summers. Consistently. And Daschle would have brought about corporate-based Universal Health Care, that included the major insurersbeing kept in the loop, so that it would have been at least 32% more expensive than needed to be.

[lazer47]

2. The repugs are afraid if they give people a place to

gather and discuss ideas,, that they would be drawn and quartered

[Cirque du So-What]

3. This needs to be shouted from the rooftops

Many people can't muster the outrage necessary to speak back against cuts in, say, academic research, but libraries are right in their communities - tangible assets which they and their children visit regularly.

You speak the truth about the vast majority of 'pugs, who wouldn't think twice about abandoning libraries or any other institution that brings education and culture to the hoi polloi.

[NBachers]

49. Just privatize the libraries

and charge per-minute admission.

Sell naming rights and allow "placement incentives" to help pay the bills.

What?? Free computer time?? You gotta be kidding! Plus, every new page listing is preceded by a slow-loading commercial.

Reduce public hours and open them up for private and corporate functions. Keep the riff-raff out of the way from our trending achievers and policy-setters.

"Specializing in robust innovative solutions and enterprise determination to keep pace with today's evolving lifestyle options."

[MikeE]

4. I hate them too, but

some of these things can be introduced in other bills. I think the stimulus bill has become the target of these idiots, so, even if we can't get everything in one bill, there will be opportunities for getting it in somewhere else.

[MedfordTim]

14. On the other hand...

Certainly, these things can be put in other bills.

So can tax cuts. Especially since they have historically bad return on investment. Remember, the NAME of the bill is "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009." I think the Obama administration did themselves a great disservice in allowing "stimulus" to be the laser narrow definition of what it is trying to accomplish. Tax cuts are the least effective part of a recovery plan and if the reinvestment portion is stripped away, the title of the bill becomes meaningless. The things being left on the cutting room floor are the very things needed and needed YESTERDAY.

The Republicans would love nothing more than to break this into a million little bills - not good for the country, but since when has that been a concern on the Right? I'm fairly certain that if a major part of what has been given up isn't returned before signing, the left out portion won't see the light of day until close to the next elections. A stand needs to be taken, now is as good a time as any.

Not arguing with you, just adding to the thought.

[MikeE]

82. I agree that the focus has been too narrow

...and nothing would make me happier than to just tell the Republicans to go screw. I guess my point with the post was to say that we should not give up hope, but remember that there is always a way to get something passed. :hi:

[Two Americas]

51. how could that be?

What would be different in the future?

[MikeE]

85. I guess he difference would be...

that this has been kind of a focus of the repugs, and we can always put some of the stuff in other bills. For example, education funding, (which I think should be in the stimulus bill), could be put in another bill mainly dealing specifically with education, thus making the republicans go on the record of voting against providing children with an education.

I think it is something that may work to our advantage, since we can use it against some of those facing reelection in 2010. For example, "they voted against this bill to get people back to work, and this bill to get kids an education, this bill to do this", etc.

[Two Americas]

88. how?

This is a dangerous illusion. If the Democrats will not fight now, when they have everything going for them, why would they fight in the future? What could change?

Never mind what we could use to promote partisan politics. Winning is the not the point of politics. You get into office in order to fight, you don't fight in order to get into office.

Politics just doesn't work the way you are imagining them to work. Nothing will ever take the place of us pressuring the politicians, and nothing will ever take the place of taking on the Republicans and fighting back.

[Optical.Catalyst]

5. We shouldn't be cutting anything. If a change needs to be made, the stimulus bill needs to increase

Spending is the name of the game here. Getting cash to change hands in the economy is the only way we are going to turn this rescission around.

We need more spending. More spending the faster the better.

If people just sit on money, the recession will grow. Tax cuts will only allow more people to sit on their money.

[lostnfound]

6. At the moment I can afford buying books and camp etc., but I REMEMBER

I remember growing up in a family where the big outing was the weekly trip to the library, and how magical it was that there was a place to borrow any book that you wanted, for FREE.
I remember growing up in a family where summertime vacation meant 2 or 3 nights in a very cheap hotel on a beach just 30 minutes from where we lived.
Once a month we might have rootbeer floats at the A&W drivein.
And I learned to play tennis at a city park when I was 11 or 12, and felt darned grateful for it. Free group lessons.

Public libraries are one of the great advances of humankind.

"Quality of life for the average American": Nowadays people think this means how much junk they can buy at Walmart. The community idea has been beaten out of us.
I am with you.

I tell my son all the time, libraries are better than bookstores.

[ellie]

38. I love the library!

I am sure other libraries have this, but on the Toledo-Lucas County Public Library website I can request a book online and get it from any library in Ohio and have it sent to the nearest branch. It is really great!

[alterfurz]

75. "Libraries will get you through times of no money...

...better than money will get you through times of no libraries."

[RC]

7. I wonder how many republicon congress critters are current on their taxes?

Maybe we need to find out. The same for the DINO's in congress.

[glinda]

9. Repubs like ignornace

[glinda]

10. Repubs like ignorance

[Lex]

29. the wealthy/powerful depend on manipulating the ignorant

that's the whole idea behind keeping them ignorant

the average Rush dittohead, for example

[eilen]

11. I went to the local library in West Nashville

and was appalled. My son's school library had more books-- plus there were not many new books.

Plus, they charge a $50 membership fee.

I could only surmise it is like that all over the South. I expected more from Nashville, considering it is the capital city of the state. My sister told me that the downtown library is very nice but how often do people, esp. kids get downtown? Parking is atrocious and their bus system is laughable (they decreased routes when they got more business during the BushCo gas price crisis).

The small county my sister lives in had a very sad little library. I felt so sorry for it I donated the hardcover books I had with me. I was staying at her house so I purchased the membership ($30) and they said I was allowed to borrow two books. I had to stop myself from laughing. My son had a higher book limit in first grade.

Our library in our little village in upstate NY is part of at network of county libraries. Additionally, it is bursting to the seams with books, software, tapes/cds, dvds and periodicals. They used to lend out artwork. Twice a year they have massive book sales. There is a full program of community education and events including a weekly movie, book clubs, computer classes, writing groups, music, children's programs, travel series, lectures etc. We also have a gallery in the lobby that features local artists. We support it through our taxes, (county and local) in addition to the "Friends of the Library." The main city library branches are similar, I often attend events at the city branch libraries-- creative writing, knitting, lectures, etc. I find that I hardly ever have to go to the university library to look things up.

Those libraries in communities represented by Republicans really need help. They are embarrassing. No wonder these idiots keep getting elected.

[rucky]

12. They're not interested in preserving property values, I guess?

or maybe they didn't even think of that.

[sandnsea]

13. Here's what they cut

http://www.obama-mamas.com/stimulus-senate.htm

Some was cut before it got to the Senate, or maybe the recreation money was in the State Stabilization part. They cut a lot of good programs to give $15,000 tax credits to the only people who can get a mortgage this year, guess who!

[MedfordTim]

15. Remind me, please

Who won last November? Sure seems like the Republican express just keeps rolling down the tracks, doesn't it? Very frustrating...

[stray cat]

18. Thanks for real info - People who rented to save money may be able to buy a house

the tax credit for homeowners may benefit those who didn't go with interest only loans and have been trying to save money for a house. I still don't have the money saved up for a downpayment but if I did I would buy a condo.

[sandnsea]

19. Can you get a loan this year?

Oh right. No. The only people who can get mortgages are the upper income. They're repealing the refundable part that helped working class people as well.

[librechik]

20. This list makes me furious

get rid of the the tax cuts and increase the spending! We're democrats, not Repubs, damn it! Listen to us!

[graywarrior]

16. The Nexium and Prozac business is booming because of republicans

Everytime I see one on tv, my stomach goes into spasms and I get depressed.

[kimmylavin]

27. They've got a pill for that, you know. :) nt

[graywarrior]

31. The chill pill

[1776Forever]

17. Yes - You said the word - Quality - They're hypocrites! On one hand they say have kids & on the

other they say to hell with your families!

I agree totally!:argh:

[NikolaC]

21. While I agree with you

they didn't succeed in doing this in a vacuum, they had help and appeasers who made it easier to get away with what has been done.

[DemReadingDU]

22. CNN: What got cut from the stimulus bill

2/7/09 CNN obtained, from a Democratic leadership aide, a list of some programs that have been cut -- either entirely or partially:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/stimulus.cuts/index.html

[MasonJar]

24. Let's call and make sure the important programs are funded in the budget.

[natrat]

26. they dont want people to associate government with good

or they might vote democratic again

[1]

28. does anybody really go to libraries anymore? in the age of the internet?

words printed on paper just seem so... outdated and quaint.

like newspapers. just so old fashioned...

[Lex]

30. of course

nt

[1]

32. ok. but why? n/t.

[Lucinda]

36. Because computers and soaking in the tub don't mix.

Because curling up in bed with a desktop pc and a booklight isn't comfy.
Because you can read whole books without having to buy them and find out they are crap.
Because not everything is available on the internet(s)

[1]

39. "Because curling up in bed with a desktop pc and a booklight isn't comfy."

sure it is.

them laptops can keep you plenty warm and toasty in bed. power supplies are akin to a dog or a significant other in that respect.


and to your last two points...

"Because you can read whole books without having to buy them and find out they are crap."
"Because not everything is available on the internet(s)"


dude, everything is available on the internet. i can watch first-run hollywood movies before they even open to the general public. i can read every word ever written. everything is available on the internet.

this is the truth. deny it at your own peril...

[Lucinda]

46. A desktop isnt a laptop. Many people have desktops.

And can you point me to where I can read the entire ARTISAN BREAD IN FIVE MINUTES A DAY book online?

TIA

[1]

58. right here...

http://www.torrentreactor.net/find/artisan-bread-in-five-minutes-a-day

[Lucinda]

87. Lovely. But there are no fees at my library.

And I'm not cheating the author or publisher.

[MADem]

72. No, everything is NOT available on the internet.

I know. I've been on a quest for years to assemble the works of a very early silent film star, director and producer. I've found some of his films in archives in the former Soviet Union, in the Netherlands, in the USA, and Canada, and paid hefty reproduction fees to obtain them...but not online.

Many things are available on the internet...but not everything. "Dude."

[NBachers]

50. Like Ellie said upthread

You can request- from home- any book, CD, or DVD in the system. If your branch doesn't have it, they'll search throughout the state and get it - all for you. What a service! You can research media on their catalogs and websites and discover new and old titles, artists, authors, actors, genres, and publications.

I'm a film noir buff. Every Sunday I go down to my library, order an out-of-print movie from the '40's or '50's, and watch it in my own private viewing room.

People who don't have computers or online access can go online at the library.

People who can't get out can explore the world via their library.

I love the population I see in the library- children of all nationalities, parents, old people, normal people, abnormal people, reclusive bookworms, students; people I enjoy being a part of.

The Library Is Where It's At!

[Vektor]

63. There are countless wonderful books in libraries.

I don't know too many people who care to read the classics online.

If I want to look up a quick factoid, I'll go online, but if I want to read a historic novel, or volumes about history, I am of course going to read a book.

[Cherchez la Femme]

81. Books aren't free.

Libraries=books

New books. Newer books. Books still paying royalties to the author and making profits for publishing companies, books you won't see on the Gutenberg site.

I'll especially use the library when I want to see what some Conservative idiot has to say when there is no way on earth, heaven or hell I will buy her/his book and contribute to her/his income & help the books standing on the best sellers list.

I used to have pride in my personal library. Alas, those days are long gone, with the past economy.
I've had to sell off my numbered, limited edition sets only to receive practically nothing.
Like the 27 volume Gadshill edition of Dickens or an 11 volume, numbered set (of 1500) of Poe's collected works.
The best price offered for the Poe set?
Fifteen dollars.

So yeah, I for one use the library not only for the reason above, but to keep abreast of current works, even though I have a computer. Amazon's short excerpts don't quite satisfy, ya know? :)

[DKRC]

34. Not everyone can afford internet

or the computer. The library is the only solution. And that's only if your local library can afford computers/internet.

Quaint still works when the power is off.

[1]

37. ok. but that just seems like such a waste of money to have these huge buildings full of old books.

that are all easily accessible on the internet.

wouldn't it be cheaper to provide some free smaller internet access points in the community rather than these huge building full of dusty books?

i mean, come on...

[tkmorris]

47. No they aren't

There are certainly books available on the internet but the VAST majority of those in my local library are not. I am talking upwards of 99%, not on the internet. What on earth made you think they were?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Two Americas]

53. LOL

This has to be one of the most humorous posts I have ever seen here.

[Cherchez la Femme]

83. As the old saying goes

'one persons trash is another person's treasure'

'Old, dusty books'?
*swoon*

[donco6]

77. Most books are NOT available on the internet.

I don't know where you get that idea.

[donco6]

76. Our libraries have shot up in attendance.

People go to check out books, like they always have. And DVDs. It's something of a phenom here.

[anonymous171]

33. A more educated society= a more liberal one. They know this (Karl Rove does at least.) nt

[DissedByBush]

35. I thought this was about stimulus for jobs and economy

Not about recreation and libraries.

Seems like everybody thought this was a pork bill instead of crafting it to do what it was designed to do.

[sohndrsmith]

41. But any stimulus will fail if it's short sighted... we need immediate measures

and ones that will reverse the snowball effect from disastrous to positive. That can't happen if we ignore or dismiss those things that will strengthen this country cumulatively.

I was truly shocked when McCain was complaining that there were things in this bill that might not show results for 2, 3, 5 years... as far as I can tell, 5 years from now would also qualify as the "immediate future", economically speaking. This thing is huge and we can't just look at things that will throw cash out in the next 6 - 12 months, because if we do, at the end of 12 months we'll just get sucked back into a destructive cycle again... it's nuts, really. At least to me : )

I think it is/was stupid - very stupid - for any Dems to try to stuff anything in this bill for self-serving reasons because doing so makes anything not rudimentary and immediate seem optional - or even excessive. Many of the non-immediate parts of the bill are necessary to perpetuate economic improvement, which is JUST as important as the immediate ones. Unless we want this to be temporary... it's a lot of money to waste on something temporary...

That's a lot to spend on a band-aid, especially when we need major surgery and physical therapy if we want to survive.

[Enthusiast]

45. Why were you shocked at

anything McCain said. He won't even be around to see the results of any stimulus program. He is just repeating Party talking points. He gave up any independent thinking he had left during the campaign.

[sohndrsmith]

55. Good point. That is pretty idiotic of me. I guess I was shocked that

he's in the Senate and has a voice that people take seriously... he's certainly not what you'd call an economic dynamo... but the shortsightedness is breathtaking - or rather, the fact that they believe it and are trying to debate it with any sense of credibility is what is so startling...

Silly me... : )

[Enthusiast]

57. It is startling. Even more startling

is that he/they have an audience. Pathetic!

[sohndrsmith]

64. Yeah. It's frightening. I'm amazed that there are so many that

are just dogmatically, blindly making their arguments of opposition based on rote ideology - not reason or thought, and certainly not reflection on questioning that ideology with any sense of awareness that it just may be enormously flawed... and that we may just have nearly a decade of documentable evidence to back it up... more actually - since I think the fuse was decisively lit with the tenets and influence of Reagan.

None of them has ever heard the quote attributed to good ol' Albert (or was it Ben?) on the definition of insanity? Apparently not, because they are providing a near perfect example of it...

[Enthusiast]

86. Seems very simple to me.

Working class people drive the economy. Labor force out of work = recession. Supply side gives money to the wealthy expecting them to create jobs when there is no market for products and services because labor is out of work. You are right, it's insanity.

[DissedByBush]

90. A stimulus is by nature short sighted

The stimulus is supposed to jump-start the economy. Overall economic policy is what gives long-term health.

[Karmadillo]

40. If only the Democrats controlled the White House and the Congress. Then they'd be

able to mobilize the American people and push through a much more progressive package.

[BlooInBloo]

42. Here's what they cut spending for...

[donco6]

78. The school food cuts were for reduced price lunch.

We've been lobbying to get rid of this category for years. You should either be FREE or PAID. Reduced just means you don't qualify for free, but you dont' have the money for reduced either. So WE end up picking up the tab. More money from the school general fund.

[Enthusiast]

43. Ruined is right.

Now, with the help of the corporate media they are convincing millions of Americans that that were right in cutting taxes for the wealthy and deregulating long established conservative banking principles.

[Enthusiast]

44. The big answer is

strong regulation and strong enforcement. First we must stop the ruination from continuing.

[EFerrari]

52. The average Republican legislator doesn't have to live in the country they vote for.

I hate these people, too.

[Mithreal]

54. And how many Dems made it easier for them to do it? nt

[Cid_B]

56. Let me play devil's advocate for a second...

Some would say that right now with the economy on the highway to hell that priorities are needed. Quality of life is good but to get out of a downward spiral we need to "tighten our belts" and put money into programs that create jobs and stimulate the economy. Parks and libraries are nice but on the list of things that will help pull us out of this they are not as high as a project that will employ 10 times as many people for the same amount of money.


The main argument against stimulus is twofold. The first part consists of those people who just want to leave it alone and let people fail because they believe that something new will take its place if there is a demand. The second part is that group of people who think that a trillion dollars will include spending on peoples pet projects, like parks and libraries and green light bulbs.

[madaboutharry]

65. I think that these programs would have provided jobs

for a lot of people, like builders and construction workers who have no work now and would have been able to find work in public works projects. The cuts for the states will be the hardest felt and result in layoffs and jobs never coming into existence. And there will now be many librarians who will have their jobs eliminated due to a lack of funding.

[Cid_B]

67. It would have provided some but does it get the most...

... bang for you buck?

[donco6]

80. Cetainly more than tax cuts.

And that's what they were eliminated in favor of.

[Cid_B]

89. Still.. if you are gonna do it...

and spend a trillion dollars then make every dollar count to its max. Honestly if this bill was streamlined with solid provable numbers of jobs and improvements and came off as less of a free for all for everybodys pet project it would fly through. Most people want to do something about the economy and might even be willing to let the government do it if they felt that the govt was doing it in an efficient manner.

[donco6]

79. It's all about construction.

The libraries, parks, schools, and community grants are all about capital construction and keeping out-of-work contractors and laborers employed. Most of this work is done in summer. We're getting bids right now on our projects. If we'd had this grant funding, it could have been spent this May, June, July.

[Raine]

59. Knowledge is power that's why they hate libraries

they don't want people to be able to come by knowledge easily, that loses them votes.

[Jim Warren]

60. Headstart

The $1B cut from Headstart is the most short-sighted. Thanks Sen. Collins, guess your grand kids don't go to public schools.

[RedCloud]

61. Librarians did not vote Repug.

It's called payback. It's what they do best.

[Jim Warren]

62. Yes it is.

Sad commentary when librarians are a primary force on the front line of defending the 1st Amendment

[liberal N proud]

66. If you don't make a $500 a year they don't care about you

[TWiley]

69. Only if you have children to KILL in the bush family wars for empire

And, are too poor for school and have no future. Then they want to convert your children to Christianity and wind em up to kill for Jesus

[ekwhite]

68. K&R

Paul Krugman is predicting 600,000 additional unemployed due to the things these asshats cut out of the budget.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/07/what-the-centrists-have-wrought/

[MADem]

70. Ironically....and no one wants to hear this, but it's true....

Mister Big Pig Deficit, AKA "43"--you know, the fellah who got us in this mess in the first place-- was the guy who plussed UP aid to libraries in a huge way. Why? It was his wife's pet project, and he was all for that "readin'" as we remember from MY PET GOAT fame.

The libraries got used to the Federal cash, the cities, towns, counties and states shaved those budgets (because someone else was doing the heavy lifting) and now, as a consequence, libraries are in extremis because the states and towns can't afford to go back to spending the way they used to on libraries, librarians and staff.

People who live near distressed libraries ought to go talk to the librarians and find out if they can use practical, down in the weeds help, like simple donations of best sellers. I donate gently-used hardcover books (I've read them and a few family members) that people give me as gifts (usually the "big name" titles) and I also donate DVDs as well. I don't donate them to my local town library--those idiots misspend their money on crap, frankly, and will probably do well to be forced to make economies--I give my stuff to the poor city nearby.

[Chorophyll]

71. Me too.

They make me sick. They don't give a rat's ass about libraries because they themselves never set foot in them. If they ever read anything other than their own stock portfolios they might have learned something in the last eight years.

[jerryster]

73. I share your frustration

It now appears - at least from what I'm reading - that money that was to go to the states is going to be cut. WTF? And Republicans are getting away with claiming that the answer to the mess their tax cuts created is... MORE TAX CUTS.

Here's my 2010 fantasy. We get over 60 seats in the Senate, an increased majority in the House, and Obama brings in the Republican leaders and tells them to take the next 2 years off.

OK, I realize that does nothing to address the problem now. My hope for now is that once the plan goes into conference that Obama will take a lesson from W. Yes, I'm serious. Bush decided to play hardball from Day 1. Dems tried to play nice and didn't seem to realize that W was playing for keeps. The roles are reversed now and Obama needs to remind the Republicans that THEY LOST and treat them accordingly. Then he should let them know that either they get on board or he will make sure that none of their proposals FOR ANYTHING will even get a hearing. He can certainly do that in the House. The Republicans there are so stupid that they don't even realize that by voting unanimously against a bill that passed they've proved their own irrelevance. Their votes are not needed and Pelosi should ignore them completely.

[defendandprotect]

74. The GOP are the destroyers . . . GOP "third world America" . . . !!!

[Autonomy]

84. Libraries are evil

Not only do they disseminate knowledge to the masses and give the homeless somewhere to wash up, but they refused en masse to turn in Americans for... hold on to your seat... READING!! Libraries HAD their chance, but refused to play ball with the Bushite FBI and release the info on what books you looked at. Also, they tend to stop censorship. DOWN WITH LIBRARIES!!!