An interesting thing about survivors of abuse.

[Jackpine Radical]

They put a lot of effort into trying to please their abusers. Even after the possibility of abuse ends because the abuser has become weak and infirm, the abuse victims frantically seek to appease the abusers, afraid to anger them. In their deeply ingrained fear, they are unable to see that they are no longer in danger. They just keep acting as if the abuser were still all-powerful. It generally takes some pretty good psychotherapy to get the victims to let go of their victimhood.

One unused but rather damaged stimulus package will be awarded to the first person who shows they have some idea of wht I'm writing about.

[Romulox]

1. Very perceptive. I was afraid of my father, even on his deathbed...

His only power at the moment was my pity. And I was terrified. :shrug:

[NV Whino]

2. Excellent analogy.

[Donnachaidh]

3. so basically the Congress has been abused so much by Republicans

That they need intensive deprogramming to fight back? You just might be on to something with that.

[rurallib]

10. I would say that Dems in Congress have been so beaten by the

Republican echo chamber both in congress and in the media (FUX, Limpy etc) that even now when Democratic ideas are supported by 75% of the voters and the Dems have huge majorities in each house, Harry and Nancy are still concerned about making Sean or Glenn utter a bad word about them.
But it makes no difference what Dems do because BillO and Michael Savage are going to savage them anyway. Even if the recovery act was 100% tax cuts and all Dems voted for it, Michael Raygun and Michael Gallagher would be whining about it.
Is that a good summary.

[EFerrari]

4. Appeasement can be a form of manipulation, too, though

especially when the only handle you have is the abuser's narcissism.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Oh, of course. In that circumstance, appeasement is a survival strategy.

One of the first steps in the therapy is to get the (ex-)victim to see that they NEEDED to do what they did, that their appeasement and constant focus on the needs of the abuser kept them alive. Their b ehavir was absolutely adaptive in the circumstances, but now the circumstances have changed, and it's time to work on making the changes within themselves that are necessary for the new circumstances.

[Triana]

11. bingo. n/t

[EFerrari]

15. The problem is the work seems to be very slow if the abuser is still around

even with diminished capacity. So many old triggers. When I tried to quit smoking, I had to re-arrange all the furniture and take my smoking chair to the dump.

Redecorating is underrated as an agent of change. :)

[Jackpine Radical]

17. To be sure. What you're doing is rearranging or eliminating all the old

stimulus cues associated with the old urges and behaviors.

As to the therapy, I have found that EMDR is very useful. In part, it too works by connecting new emotional states to the old memories. In that respect it's sort of like stimulus desensitization, but on a very accelerated scale.

[Triana]

5. The people who REALLY need psychotherapy are the ABUSERS.

It is incumbent on the victim to STOP TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for the behavior and the consequences of the behavior of the abusers and to set some FIRM BOUNDARIES on what they will not tolerate going forward.

ABUSERS always blame the VICTIM for their own abusive behavior and for the consequences of it (and it doesn't help to have YOU blaming the victim for the abuser's behavior in addition to that).

The victim needs to stop accepting the blame - and the responsibility. They are NOT to blame for the abuser's behavior. They can only control THEIR OWN - and in the case of the spineless on Capitol Hill - they need to stop taking the blame and the responsibility for the Pigshit's destruction of the world economy and start laying down some boundaries going forward.

After all they DID WIN.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. The victims will continue to be victims until they make changes within themselves.

Often the abusers are not exactly available for therapy. The survivors need to proceed with their own work regardless of what the abusers do.

[Triana]

12. True. Abusers rarely if ever change. That's why I say...

...victims need to stop taking responsibility for their behavior and just change their own and start setting boundaries/rules and changing things themselves.

I think we agree.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Yes, I think we do.

I have treated a lot of abusers and victims. Often they are the same people.

[Juche]

6. Cenk Uygur put it well on TYT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYWVAbIJUrI


Whe Cenk talks about battered spouses getting terrified when someone flinches at them, think of Reid and how he gives up at even the threat of a filibuster.

[Jackpine Radical]

13. Thanks. I hadn't seen that.

[villager]

8. I've maintained similar things for years... The Dems need a massive 12-step group

...to work though all the self-loathing they've acquired, all the "apologizing" they do for their very being, after years of GOP abuse...

[Tsiyu]

16. But you also have a huge media machine enabling the abusers

It's always productive for the abuser to claim their victims are crazy, delusional, drug-addled, criminal. They put such a nice front out to the world and everyone trusts those nice "pillars of society." The media are enabling like crazy right now.

When you're abused you try to keep what few friends your abuser hasn't alienated, so you often go out of your way to prove you're "not" what the abuser claims you are.

The media are like the Roman Catholic Church, hiding the abuse behind the image of "saintly" Republican men and women.

The Dems are trying to prove they aren't nuts, afraid that no one will believe them.


Edited for proper subject/verb agreement

[Jackpine Radical]

18. Absolutely.

Damn, this is a really good thread.

[EFerrari]

20. Gaslighting. Exactly. n/t

[seemslikeadream]

19. I have first hand knowledge

and can attest to the accuracy of your statement

[Jackpine Radical]

22. Physical, emotional and sexual abuse, particularly of children, are endemic

in our culture. Judging by what we can see in the news, the highest concentrations seem to be in repressive, authoritarian families. Which is to say, Republican families. So they all come pre-trained and know the rules of the game when it comes to intimidating the shit out of the Dems.

[EFerrari]

27. Right. And their anti-social controlling bullshit looks like order on the outside

but it's not really order, it's destructive oppression, like the "beating the will to live out of you" destructive.

[DKRC]

25. Alot of us do

:hi:

[emilyg]

32. Yes.

[EFerrari]

34. Yep.

:)

[undeterred]

21. At times I think Obama is really practicing Christianity

in the sense of loving ones enemies. Its incredibly disarming to meet someone who actually does that. He is an immensely forgiving and gracious person.

At other times I am not sure if he is operating out of strength or weakness. Most of the Democrats operate out of fear and weakness most of the time.

[EFerrari]

24. I had a lightbulb moment last night about Obama and his impulse to build consensus.

Obama, as an individual, was born with the capacity to disrupt any group he was in pretty much just by being himself -- smartest guy in the room, creative, black, only son, kid of a single mom, the list goes on and on.

Maybe one way he learned to keep his own balance out in the world was to offset those attributes and their disruptive potential by learning to be very attuned to other people and by always moving to draw them together first. The first attribute sometimes comes off as caution but, it actually seems to be listening. The second attribute sometimes comes off as capitulation but it's really re-organizing the group boundaries on his own terms -- which is the opposite of capitulation or just blending in with the group.

It made sense last night, anyway. :silly:

[aikoaiko]

23. I don't think it has anything to do with the way Republicans treated Democratic congresspersons.

I think Democrats are afraid of losing power from being perceived or stereotyped as "too liberal" or "to left". The "Republican Revolution of 1994" looms in the memory of many elected Democrats. I think our elected officials are all too aware that if it weren't for the sad state of the Iraqi war and mediocre economy in 2006 we wouldn't have recaptured Congress and if it weren't for the downhill sprial of the economy in 2008, someone as pathetic as John McCain could have won the Presidency. If the election had been in July of 2008 (Dow around 14K, and the Iraqi war going well), we might have seen a different result.

Our current Democrats and in Congress will have to very creative to move our country in a progressive direction. I don't think they know how to do that yet. Hopefully, our President will lead the way.

[EFerrari]

28. Abusers always have a label they slap on you to control your behavior.

Too liberal, far left, tax and spend, unpatriotic, soft on terror.

[aikoaiko]

30. I suppose my problem with this analogy is that I don't think of our party as victims of abuse

Not victims of anything.

[EFerrari]

31. Most people are victims of their own maladaptive habits in some way.

But that doesn't mean we're helpless or hopeless. "Victim" can be a loaded term.

[bridgit]

26. In a world where kangaroo courts cry crocodile tears something wicked this way did come...

in the form of republican neocon conservatism that now swaggers the landscape still with a tyrant's awful gait; and so I am reminded (while having no desire to leave any false or undue impression leading to harms) of those RL stories of insatiable, insufferable bullies that destroy every dog in the neighborhood but for their's, trample all the flowers, and are somehow, repetitiously *key* to the 'disappearance' of peaceful others behind smirking country justice and an in-law or two at the county level; or, for that matter: Christie's - Murder On The Orient Express, where one evil dude receives several mortal wounds how does this happen? Why? Is there a need to re-balance the beam? If so, minus heinous like-minded violent means...

Then that time is now. It's pop-psych to simply say to the abused, "I'm OK, you're OK. Just stop enabling, stop giving your abuser the power to hurt you. Our session is over. Pay on the way out. I'll see you next week."

I see downsides & upsides to this go-round, 1: Obama was too ambitious, or at least someone was that much is clear, and, 2: by playing the 'shake my hand/come on over and watch the super bowl game' game, Obama set them up in such a way they were unable to perceive being so stuck on stupid & ego in that...

They have handed an already suffering American citizenry their plaintiff tones to a Prez Obama that is prepared to start singing them and I say do so: Sic Semper Tyrannis

[TahitiNut]

29. Political codependency on a massive scale. Dysfunctional.

Enablers in withdrawal showing anxiety. :puke:

[JNelson6563]

33. not all, but a lot do.

I come from an abusive background but am completely estranged from my abuser (my mother). My twin brother got it worse and is still trying to curry favor w/her.

The one commonality I have found with kids who were abused, they are pretty tough. Also pretty adept at picking up on signs of danger before your less scarred people. it's like having a heightened sense of awareness.

Julie

[dixiegrrrrl]

35. "Personhood of Victimization"

Bingo.

[bobthedrummer]

36. I believe I have some knowledge of what you're simply stating, J_R.

UN recognized non-lethal weapons expert and human rights advocate against directed energy targeting the human central nervous system UC Davis-based Cheryl Welsh publishes similar themes on her website Mind Justice.org.

The article linked to below is a discussion of a Bush Executive Order from August 2008.
"Nonconsensual experiments are unconstitutional but recent changes in the law allow just that" by Cheryl Welsh (August 2008 Mind Justice)

"A new Bush executive order (EO) includes an old waiver that allows human subject protections to be modified or waived by intelligence agency directors in complete secrecy."

http://www.mindjustice.org/unconstitutional.htm

Am I correct about this, Jackpine?

[Jackpine Radical]

37. Well, it seems like they can do pretty much whatever they want to us.

Since they never put out rulings and EO's they don't intend to use, it makes you wonder just what they've been doing, and to whom. If they were just doing it to non-citizens and Gitmo detainees and folk like that, they wouldn't probably bother with all this paperwork. And neither would they if it were benign.