Madoff Victim, 90, Returns To Work for $10 an hour

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Madoff Victim, 90, Returns To Work

http://cbs5.com/local/elderly.madoff.victim.2.929316.html?hbx.hra=SanFrancisco-LAN&hbx.cmp.c1=story+90283820&hbx.cmp.c3=641&hbx.cmp.c2=728+x+90+90283820&hbx.cmp=AFC-San

Imagine working your whole life saving for retirement, then having your life savings disappear. It's reality for a Ben Lomond man, who at age 90 is forced back to work to make ends meet.

Retired businessman Ian Thiermann is back on the job working 30 hours a week as a grocery store greeter.

Like thousands of people across the country, Thiermann invested with Wall Street financier Bernie Madoff, who is accused of allegedly running a $50 billion Ponzi scheme. Thiemann said he has lost all of his $738,000.

With house payments and medical bills piling up, Theirmann said he had no choice but to go back to work for $10 an hour.

[Earth_First]

1. Meanwhile Madoff sits at home in his multi-million dollar Manhattan home

sleeping on thousand dollar linens...
sipping hundred(s) bottles of wine...
mailing million dollar earings/watches/pens et. al to relatives...

Feel better, Bernie?

[cornermouse]

36. I think that's one of the things that makes me

angriest about this. Any of us would be in jail.

[rvablue]

58. It's disgusting!!! And NYers should be working to get the judge impeached who allowed this!

And what if this poor 90-year-old man gets desperate and steals something to eat from the grocery store where he works.

He would promptly be put behind bars for a $5 sandwich.

Meanwhile that disgusting pig Madoff lives like a king.

It makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fujiyama]

65. I can't believe that judge allowed him out on bail

Wow, I guess at 90 the only positive is you don't have to save up for too long.

[BeyondGeography]

2. Madoff should face the death penalty

That said, Ian's one helluva solid looking 90-year-old guy. Good for him.

[John1956PA]

3. Is there $500K SIPC insurance coverage available to each defrauded investor? (nt)

[Fire1]

15. Yes. WHEN, is the question.

[Baby Snooks]

32. Up to $500,000

It covers up to $500,000 on losses due to fraud. The crooks who used Bernie Madoff to evade taxes will get $500,000. Everyone else will be lucky to get $5,000.

http://crooksandliars.com/tags/mary-shapiro

And that is who Barack Obama appointed to head up the SEC. Don't look for much "change" since the agency she headed up before had "oversight" and she apparently used her "oversight" to look the other way.

[UpInArms]

45. this guy was invested for 25 years - has been receiving approx

75,000 per year (at 10-12%) with 750,000 invested and so has actually received more than he invested -

he may owe some of those ill-gotten gains back

sounds rather mean, doesn't it?

what is a 90 year old doing with "house payments" - on multiple houses?

[Fran Kubelik]

56. How are his gains "ill-gotten"??

:wtf:

[UpInArms]

60. because if he got paid money that was illegally obtained

i.e. Ponzi style - he may need to repay some or all of it

http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/12/madoff-redemptions-bayou-biz-wallst-cz_cc_1212madoff.html

[Hekate]

68. All con-games ar based on trust, which the con-artist manipulates.I can't imagine any of his victims

... were complicit in the con. That's why they're called victims.

It gets worse, much worse. Get off your high horse long enough to look at the charities that invested that are now unable to work. The list is long.

Madoff used his ties in the Jewish community to prey on Jews and Jewish charities.

It gets worse. Charities, social justice groups, environmental groups, et al. go to certain agencies year after year and end up relying on X amount of donations from them in order to keep going. Those agencies' coffers are now empty, because they invested with Madoff. (Imagine if PBS lost their money from the Annenberg Foundation or the Pew Charitable Trust; it would leave a sizable hole in their budget.)

They can't make up the loss from small donors.

It gets worse. Retirees who entrusted their savings to brokers who in turn entrusted them to Madoff have just seen a lifetime of work evaporate as if it never existed. There's the 90-year-old man working for $10/hr. Yesterday I read about a 60-year-old widow who had a comfortable life from what her husband left her. She never even heard of Bernie Madoff. Suddenly, overnight, there was nothing. Nada. Zero.

The car is up for sale, probably soon her house will be too. In the meantime, she cleaned a friend's house for some cash, then came home and held her dog in her arms and cried.

What did she do to deserve this?

Bernard Madoff deserves to spend the rest of his life behind bars--and he should only have good health so he can live a long time there.

I blame the brokers and accountants for not doing due diligence, and they should be penalized. But the victims? They're called victims for a reason.

Hekate

[Believing Is Art]

4. What a horrible piece of shit (Madoff).

How quickly can we force restitution?

[bridgit]

5. Madoff should be in prison so why isn't he?

[Earth_First]

6. Quite obviously you don't make enough money to understand why...

(I don't either, so I'm with you...)

[arcadian]

7. He is getting paid $10 an hour for that?

Surely they don't make that much, I would think minimum wage tops.

[Warpy]

13. Greeting people, handing them shopping carts,

and keeping his eye out for the people shoplifting steaks and bottles of wine.

[fujiyama]

66. It could depend where

Maybe in a very expensive area, that's how much they are paid.

[Hekate]

67. Where I live in California, a study showed that minimum wage *should* be $12-15 an hour...

That's just for someone to get by in our market: a single person, sharing housing, living frugally, needs that much. Once in a great while I hire a yard man or a house cleaner. Now that I know about that study I don't haggle for less.

My guess is that the old man's $10/hr isn't going to go very far.

Hekate

[Idealism]

8. Madoff being an asshole asside, WHO TOLD THESE RETARDS TO INVEST ALL THEIR NET WORTH?

Greed told them to.

You can't go broke by investing all of your money on a sham if you didn't invest in the first place. It isn't a "free lunch" Investing has risks, or else you couldn't make MONEY DOING IT!


How can people be so fucking stupid!?

:banghead:

[spooky3]

47. agree, except I wish you'd used a different word than "retard"

since it's offensive to some people.

Why would someone who is 90 still have mortgage payments to make?

Well before age 90, he should have diversified and he should have paid off his mortgage with some of that $700K.

I'm not saying blame the victims - fraud is fraud and the blame is on Madoff - but I have less sympathy for this victim than for the 90 year old whose health or circumstances beyond his/her control put him/her in desperate straits.

[KamaAina]

75. Mahalo (thank you)

except I wish you'd used a different word than "retard" since it's offensive to some people.

Many people with intellectual disabilities (the preferred term) view that word as an offensive slur along the lines of the N-word.

http://www.r-word.org

[Deja Q]

49. Human nature. Doesn't stop people from using cards or cheating on the ones they claim to love either

[Fla Dem]

57. Not everyone is savvy when it come to investing. Especially the elderly.

I am sure someone, a friend, relative, or investment counselor told him this was a good investment. And yes investing is a risk, but given the Madoff track record, which we all know NOW was a bunch of crap, I am sure he felt he was doing the right thing. $700,000 while a goodly sum was all this man had. He probably thought he would place it somewhere where it would be safe and would be there if he needed it for medical expenses or living expenses. The elderly are particularly vulnerable to scams. I don't think everyone who invests does so for greed only. They invest with the hope that their investment at least keeps up with the cost of living so in their later years, when they can no longer work, they will be able to keep a roof over their heads, get medical care and buy groceries. And maybe, just maybe take a trip, buy a car and have enough to bury them. Were we all as smart as you, there would never be any profit for scammers.

[1Hippiechick]

71. You are absolutely right. But you will get crucified for having no compassion and being wise by

some of the saps posting on here. JesusHChrist - I asked the question before: "How much more than $738k does a 90 YEAR OLD MAN NEED?!?!?

[Fleshdancer]

9. Sell everything Madoff owns and split the total among his victims

I know it won't happen and he probably has many assets in the names of various family members, but it's still a nice thought.

My heart breaks for Mr. Thiermann. :(

[ZombieHorde]

11. My thought as well.

[blonndee]

10. OMG...

how terribly sad. :cry:

[NJCher]

12. cruel

Madoff is a sociopath so he feels nothing.

Life is horribly cruel. This is one of the saddest stories I've read in weeks.

At least there were kind people to offer him this job.



Cher

[Bozita]

14. In Michigan, he'd be crushed in the crowds lining up for a $10/hr job.

Folks are hurting around here.

[Doremus]

22. In Ohio too. $10/hr door greeter jobs are non-existent. Hell, $10/hr. jobs of ANY KIND

are non-existent, as are $9/hr., $8/hr. ....

Scary times indeed. :scared:

[scarletwoman]

16. Sucks to be him. But why wasn't $738,000 enough for Ian Thiermann?

If you're already sitting on that big of nest egg, why do you feel the need to make it bigger?

Seriously, that much money would set me up quite comfortably for the rest of my life (I'm 59) along with Social Security and Medicare. What's up with always wanting MORE MORE MORE?

The Madoffs of this world are enabled by other people's greed, period.

sw

[Davis_X_Machina]

18. Maybe he wanted...

...to leave something to his kids, to his shul, to other charities?

And the better returns he got, the more he'd be able to do for them?

[scarletwoman]

19. Then he should have saved his money, not gambled it on the stock market.

He gambled and lost. It's sad. But shit happens when you gamble.

sw

[Davis_X_Machina]

20. I've got a 403(b)...

...am I a gambler?

[scarletwoman]

23. I've no idea what a 403(b) is. My participation in capitalism is confined to earning a modest wage,

purchasing necessities, and putting some money into my local credit union savings account. I've paid off my little house and 10 acres, and so own them outright. I am able to afford the annual property taxes, and pay for the insurance. I keep my 12 year old car in good running order, but when it finally dies, I will probably manage to pay cash for another -- used, of course.

I have never once considered putting any of my money into the stock market, which I abhor. I would prefer that capitalism die altogether, and I will certainly do nothing to perpetuate it by giving Wall Street the use of any of my money.

By the same token, I refuse to give the giant banking entities any support by owning a credit card. At age 59, I have survived perfectly well without ever owning one.

sw

[BlooInBloo]

27. With those qualifications, who could possibly hope to disagree?

:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

30. Who, indeed.

:P

[Le Taz Hot]

43. I envy you, SW.

I wish my property was paid off. It took me until I was 44 to FINALLY be able to buy a home. I thought about buying in the country with some acreage but, being born and raised in L.A. I wouldn't know what to do with a septic tank if it knocked me upside the head, much less what to do when the well ran dry, etc. However, I'm learning the square-foot-gardening methods so I'm able to grow some of my own food even in the city.

As for the stock market, I've ALWAYS known it was for the big boys and it's only a matter of time until the little guy gets swallowed up. Over the years I managed to save six figures but when my husband's business went under, we both lost our jobs and it's amazing how fast savings disappears under those circumstances.

I'm just hoping we can hang on to our house during this downturn. So far so good but, as I've discovered too many times before, it can all be gone in a matter of months.

[scarletwoman]

59. I wish you all the best. This seems like a really bad time to be in California, I sure hope you

and your husband's prospects improve, I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one's home.

Good luck!
:hug:
sw

[spooky3]

48. so do I

I'd say we're gamblers if we are 90 years old and have it all invested with the same person who promises unrealistic returns, and haven't paid off our mortgage.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

25. How compassionate

:puke:

[scarletwoman]

29. I do feel sorry for him, he's just another sucker who thought he could have money for nothing. nt

[Dreamer Tatum]

52. I call bullshit on your sanctimony

Investing money so it can grow into more money is not "money for nothing." I don't see how your savings activity is morally superior to anyone else's. I fail to see how falling victim to a sophisticated thief makes this man a "sucker."

You're being sanctimonious and smug.

[rockymountaindem]

26. But he didn't lose that money because of the stock market

He lost it because Madoff was running an utter scam. Yes, the stock market is a gamble, but Madoff was just a fraudster.

[scarletwoman]

28. And the stock market ISN'T a scam? He gambled, he lost. (nt)

[KillCapitalism]

34. The stock market is definitely a gamble.

Just like Kenny Rogers sang "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."

My father in-law always believed that if you leave your money in the stock market for the long term that you'll always see gains despite the ups and downs. I hate to say that he learned that hard way this time around.

[rockymountaindem]

44. No, the stock market isn't a scam

Madoff's investors didn't lose money because of bad stock picks. They lost money because Madoff embezzled from them. You can't see the difference? Think of it like a racetrack. Lots of people lose money by betting on a losing horse. On the other hand, these people lost money by having the bookie walk away with their cash without even placing the bet. See?

[brentspeak]

74. For many small-time investors, the stock market is a scam

[Doremus]

21. My thought too. At his age his money should have been somewhere safe,

not playing the market or whatever it was Madoff was supposed to be doing.

My sympathies to him. Hell of a lesson to learn this late in life.

[exboyfil]

31. Diversify diversify Diversify

I currently have a 40 Equity/ 40 Bond/ 20 Cash split in my portfolio. My 40% bonds are in Treasury Inflation Protected Securities (3%+ Real Rate of Return - after inflation). I am 45 years old.

Why anyone who is 90 would have more than 10-20% in equities really puzzles me? I can't say I have much sympathy - it appears to be more greed than anything else.

[Baby Snooks]

33. Greed?

It's just practicality. If you had a bank paying 10% interest on a CD and everything else was only paying you 5%, where would you put your money? After all, what's safer than a bank? You'd be surprised how many have lost everything when a bank collapsed. Believing a big bank would never collapse. There are also people who were left trusts who had no choice to make. Someone set up the trust for them. Trusts are not insured by the FDIC. I guess they were greedy too.

Blaming victims really is just a form of revictimization.

[1Hippiechick]

39. At age 90 with $738k? Absolutely greed, imo.

[Fran Kubelik]

54. seriously?

At what age would those savings not seem greedy to you?

How do we know he didn't accumulate all that money by being incredibly thrifty, not "wasting" money on travel, expensive cars, etc? You don't know even close to enough information about this man to judge him.

[1Hippiechick]

61. I would think absolutely that the reasons you listed are exactly how he did accumulate his wealth.

My guess is that he lived VERY frugally. I'm not judging - I asked a question and gave my opinion: At 90 years of age, $738k is not enough? He has already outlived his life expectancy. How much more does he want and need--at age 90??

[Fran Kubelik]

70. But you don't put your money in your mattress.

You put some of it in checking, some of it in savings, and you invest most of it. That's what we've all been told all of our lives.

[1Hippiechick]

73. Pick up a Money magazine or many others on the market. There are guidelines of how one should

invest their income, by decade, if I recall correctly. AS one approaches retirement, one does not have the luxury of youth to wait out a market rebound.

Here is just one link with investment guidelines based on age - not the one I was looking for, but it will give you an idea of what I am talking about:

https://www.oldnational.com/Personal/Wealth-Management/Life-Stages/In-My-20s-and-30s.asp

[1Hippiechick]

72. Thank you for one of the FEW intelligent posts on here. n/t

[liberalmuse]

17. Madoff should have to sell every single one of his assets...

in an attempt to pay restitution to his victims. This is disgusting and one reason I really wish there was a hell sometimes.

[BlooInBloo]

24. George Will: This is the free market at work.

[Deja Q]

50. Nice way to 'work'. Not exactly an 'honest living'.

Or is it?

[DFW]

35. There are lots of stories like this

A friend of mine in Brussels knows a Belgian guy who is 67, JUST retired, had most of his
€500,000 savings with a bank whom he had instructed to invest it in a secure instrument
that he could access upon his retirement. They invested his money with Madoff.

He is now at just about zero, and has to start up again.

[Starry Messenger]

37. My mom just told me this story today.

What a sweetie he is! 90 years old. Evidently his town is rallying around he and his wife.

[Liberal_in_LA]

42. Glad the town is helping out.

[1Hippiechick]

38. "Thiemann said he has lost all of his $738,000." At 90, the price of his own greed, imo

At age 90, $738k was not ENOUGH money?

[1Hippiechick]

40. website regarding financial planning -

http://www.askmen.com/money/investing_60/82_investing.html

[FreeStateDemocrat]

41. Worth $738,000 and he still had house payments, why didn't he at least payoff the mortgage? Greed.

Don't gamble more than you can afford to lose. People who gamble away that kind of money don't deserve any sympathy.

[1Hippiechick]

62. Bingo. n/t

[varkam]

46. Jesus fucking christ - it's not like he was the victim of a crime or anything.

Why do people on DU have to be such assholes?

[Deja Q]

51. Because it feels good, are the devil's advocates, or have a pespective at least worth mentioning.

[Dreamer Tatum]

53. Because they see a 90-year-old man having the nerve to live like a 40-year-old man

Why, 90, and he still has a mortgage and has his money invested anywhere other than under his mattress? GREEDY.
Why, that old man should be in pajamas all day, laying in bed quietly, waiting to die! How DARE he carry a
mortgage! Why...why...why...it's...um...uh...well, it's just WRONG! And doesn't he KNOW not to invest in
Ponzi schemes? I mean, WHY COULDN'T HE SEE IT WAS A SCAM, EVEN THOUGH MULTIMILLIONAIRES COULDN'T SEE IT?

Sometimes there is such a thing as a correct answer, and here it is: Madoff should be made to have the same standard
of living as his worst-off victim, and his worldly good should be sold and the proceeds distributed to victims.

[varkam]

55. I doubt the victims are going to get their money back.

I'm sure he's got a lot of it stashed where authorities can't get to it. I'll be sated so long as Madoff gets to enjoy his retirement behind bars someplace.

[1Hippiechick]

63. Sorry. There are all kinds of resources identifying that as one APPROACHES retirement age, their

money needs to be pulled out of the market and put in something stable, such as CDs for example. One of the reasons? They don't have the years left to RECOVER from a stock market crash.

I'll bet if you asked this old man if he had it to do over, he would have put his money in something stable. And, by everything I have read about investments and retirement, he should have done it about 25 years ago. Is what he has now better than the lower interest income he would have earned in CDs, for example?

[Dreamer Tatum]

64. Incredible, the financial wisdom here on DU

Everyone here must be set for life, having made the perfect decision at every juncture in their
life.

Oh, wait.

[Behind the Aegis]

69. Only surpassed by the amount of compassion....