What do you think of porn?

[LoZoccolo]

Poll question: What do you think of porn?

[B o d i]

1. Who wants popcorn?

[Oldenuff]

18. I tried the "surprise" on the wife

When we were dating.It was kinda greasy she said....maybe next time I should stick to plain.It was a large popcorn too.(that part is obligatory I think...maybe even a law in some states)

[-..__...]

53. Try it with a pizza next time.

Just make certain the pizza has cooled off before you set up the "surprise".

[Maru Kitteh]

179. Is it too late for popcorn? n/t

[cherish44]

200. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for orgasms, I think they're great...

But it's not necessary to spend money to achieve one. And it's not just guys, I know women who have very extensive collections of sex toys. If you know how to pleasure yourself correctly though, it can be done for free. Want variety? Try a different room. Switch hands. Turn on the radio. Envision something new in your mind... Want to spice up your sex life with a partner? There are lots of possibilities with a little imagination. People bitch about kids having no imagination these days because of TV and video games, well same can be said for adult sex lives and masturbatory practices.....:fistbump:

[Birthmark]

2. I think most of it is miserable.

The (im)morality of porn is a personal matter, imo.

But the quality is lousy by almost any standard.

[DJ13]

3. The porn industry is going high def 3D this year

Wont that be an eyeful!

[4lbs]

11. Just imagine what they'll do with that with regards to the "happy ending"

n/t

[surrealAmerican]

51. Agreed.

It is by and large lacking in artistic merit. The law, however, never mandates art.

[begin_within]

4. It's not something I exactly "think" about

[Bicoastal]

5. I don't know, I've never actually seen any before.

Could you guys provide me with some examples--say, a few dozen internet links, search engines, and video players--and let me decide for myself?

PS: I am TOTALLY over 18.

[LoZoccolo]

12. "So how's the smut business, Jackie?" "I wouldn't know."

"I deal in publishing...entertainment...political advocacy..."

[Bjorn Against]

26. Here is one for you...

http://foxnewsporn.com/

[NYC_SKP]

6. It is of surprisingly poor quality this century.

I'll take 20th Century porn (and earlier) any day of the week.

:P

[cloudbase]

83. Can't beat those musical tracks. n/t

[conscious evolution]

276. Whats the difference

between The spice Girls Movie and a porn flick?

The porn flick has better music.

[conspirator]

86. "Yes regrettably, it's true, standards have fallen in adult entertainment. It's video dude ...

Now that we're competing with the amateurs, we can't afford to invest in little extras like story, production value, feelings.
People forget that the brain is the biggest erogenous zone"

DUDE: "On you, maybe."

[Warren DeMontague]

215. *

:rofl:

[leftstreet]

7. This was no boating accident. n/t

[Tumbulu]

8. It should be illegal as hell- it reduces humans to sex objects for some males pleasure

and I am sick of it. It pollutes our minds with images of primarily female submission and or ridicule.

It reinforces capitalism's tendency to exploit anything and everything for a profit.

Sick and wrong and way overdue to be eliminated from the public discourse.

[CanuckAmok]

10. Women like porn, too.

But I suppose the women who like visual porn are just being manipulated by the patriarchy.

[CTyankee]

74. My sense is that if women ran the porn trade and encouraged women to produce it,

it would overwhelm men beyond belief. I have always believed that women's eroticism is exponentially more exciting and dangerous and that men are terrified of it...

[oedura]

80. If women ran the porn trade men WOULD be overwhelmed...

...with boredom.

[kimmylavin]

82. So what about porn keeps men from being bored?

The crappy quality?
The horrible "story"?
The women who couldn't possibly look less interested or turned on?

There's quite a lot of porn produced by women, and its a hell of a lot sexier than the "mainstream" stuff...

[seabeyond]

84. just a jab at women as a whole that they SO respect. n/t

[oedura]

106. If...

...your porn is of bad quality, you're watching the wrong stuff. If the women look like they're uninterested or not turned on, you're watching the wrong stuff.

If you want your porn to have a story, you're a woman.

Men don't watch porn for the "stories". They want to watch people fuck so they can jerk off.

End of story.

[kimmylavin]

108. Gotta say...

Its your porn that sounds boring.
There is more than one flavor... enjoy yours.

[oedura]

110. I do, thank you very much. (nt)

[CTyankee]

222. Story/sex fantasy. WTF, men don't have sex fantasies? That's news to me!

Both sexes have sex fantasies. A woman may have one about having sex with a stranger in a motel, or with several men or with the guy next door or their college prof. Men have fantasies about having sex with several women or with Dallas Cowboys cheerleader or with a hot woman living next door. So? I really don't get where the difference lies...

[ZombieHorde]

225. I like porn to have a story, and I like it to be animated. (I am a guy)

[CTyankee]

105. Oh, sweetie

Little do you kinow...

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scout]

152. kind of like the women find it boring now, eh? n/t

[oedura]

154. Face it...

Men and women are DIFFERENT.

You want porn for women? They call it "erotica". Go watch some.

[Scout]

158. i don't want porn for men or women ... i don't need it. i have an imagination

and a great sex life already.

i won't tell you what i think you should go do :eyes:

although, you probably do it already :rofl:

poor widdle mens, theyz afraid they might run out of stuff they can beat off to!

[oedura]

163. No...

I just think you're idiotic to think that the mainstream porn industry should go out of its way to cater to women when men are the primary consumers.

[Scout]

192. well you can think what you want, i don't give a flying fuck....

but i didn't say what you are claiming ... you need to learn to read maybe, instead of just looking at pictures?

i said women find porn boring. i did not say i wanted nor expected the porn industry to change. i would not care one bit if the porn industry just fell off the face of the earth. my sex life is now, and would be then, just fine.

i'm not the one who needs material to beat off to.

[oedura]

199. "i said women find porn boring."

...and NOBODY CARES.

[CTyankee]

205. "nobody"? The women who have responded to your post are "nobody"?

Well, that's revealing...

[Name removed]

206. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

226. "i said women find porn boring"

I have not found that to be the case.

[Scout]

255. oh well excuuuuuuuuuuuse me

"many women" find porn boring

[Withywindle]

232. "women find porn boring."

This woman calls bullshit. You don't speak for all of us.


Though I admit, I find the kind of vanilla het porn with the bleach-blond bubble-boob women boring, agreed. Not offensive, just trite and repetitive.

BDSM pirate abduction fantasies? Femme-dom? Male-on-male? Gender-bendy? BRING. IT. ON. :D

[Scout]

256. ask oedura ....

would ALL men find porn boring if it was made by women?

or do you only question women?

[Taverner]

98. Women do run the porn industry

See: Christine Hefner, Danni Ashe...etc

[TheWraith]

126. Actually, a lot of the porn trade is run by women.

Jenna Jameson's $30 million dollar a year company is the most famous example, but a lot of porn actors followed her lead and invested in their own industry. Typically female performers get paid considerably more than the men, so they've got more to invest.

[Scout]

151. or they're just doing it to "please their man"

:eyes:

[ZombieHorde]

230. Is there something wrong with pleasing one's lover?

[Scout]

257. not if you are doing something that you also like and enjoy....

if you are doing something you don't really want to do, just to please them, then yes there is something wrong with it.

[ZombieHorde]

263. I sometimes watch tv shows I don't like with my wife just because she likes them.

Such as Top Chef, a cooking show/game show/reality show. I love cartoons and cheesy horror. Is there something wrong with what I am doing?

(To be fair, she does watch some of my cheesy horror movies and cartoons.)

[Scout]

264. yeah, cuz watching tv with someone is totally the same as letting them butt fuck you

if you don't like it and they do....

:eyes:

[ZombieHorde]

266. Weare talking about watching porn on tv, not butt fucking, you big silly. nt

[rebecca_herman]

269. well I do see a difference

between watching something that just bores you for the benefit of a spouse, and watching something that you feel sick watching and that you feel violates you mentally and that you are extremely morally against. Of course if something like this is a deal breaker it should be discussed prior to the marriage if the couple has decided not to live together prior for some reason (be it practicality, morals, or whatever).

Personally, I am very against porn for my own personal life, and I find it disgusting. I would not be willing to watch it for the benefit of a spouse because it disgusts me and goes against the values and standards I have set for myself. I also wouldn't be willing to watch something else I found extremely disturbing (such as a very, very violent movie) for similar reasons. Honestly I think I'd rather be single forever then have a husband for whom porn was so important that he'd choose it over me. It's just something I really feel I could not live with. Maybe it will change in time but right now I do feel strongly that I couldn't live with it - and even if I could ever accept possibly a husband who watched it on his own, I just don't see myself ever being willing to watch it myself.

[ZombieHorde]

270. That is fair. How do you feel about animated porn? nt

[seabeyond]

273. you really are funny

zombie. have been reading your posts down for what days now on this thread, lol. you like that animated shit dontcha. lol.

[ZombieHorde]

278. I love cartoons, including a lot of anime, but my wife did not like anime at all.

Then I got an anime called Wicked City, which had a lot of naughty scenes. I told my wife about it, since she likes sexual themes, and she watched it. Now she likes a lot of anime, such as Spirited Away, which has no naughty scenes, and some others which have many. She's still not into zombies, ninjas, or Godzilla, but I am very thankful for the fantasy and erotic anime. I am a big nerd and I love it.

Wicked City -

[seabeyond]

280. i really do enjoy your posts

that second one is a hoot. that is what i was saying on the other post, that the animated i have seen have been funny. there is something with that second picture.

you are funny

and enjoy your animated, glad you wife has fun with them too

i can appreciate cause my hubby can do cartoons too. i roll my eyes,

thanks for the giggle

[ZombieHorde]

284. Thanks.

i roll my eyes,

That is usually what my wife does when I buy zombie movies. Though I just ordered four more zombie movies yesterday, and when I told her, she just smiled and said; "Well that's nice, did you get any anime?" She is great for me.

[seabeyond]

285. lol lol

that is so cute.

[rebecca_herman]

274. Rather indifferent I suppose

Because real people aren't involved, I don't think I would object much to a boyfriend/husband watching it, unless it contained content I found extremely disturbing (I assume the content of it varies, just like live porn). However I don't think I'd have much of an interest in watching it myself. I'd rather read a romantic novel with a good storyline and some sex included as part of the relationship development.

[seabeyond]

271. you dont have to live with it

if you marry. there are men that dont have to have porn.

[rebecca_herman]

275. hopefully I meet one

seems to be so many people these days that feel they need it and it's unfair for a spouse or partner to object. I haven't dated in a while so I don't know how much is perception vs reality

[seabeyond]

279. i think that is a real bother

how people insist that we must smile, accept, embrace, or .... we are prude, asexual, jealous or ugly. just bullshit. as i think porn degrades woman as a whole, the people defending porn uses the same method of degradation to scorn woman to shut up. i find that a bit ironic.

be in enough of these porn threads and you can be ahead of the insult before it is thrown at you.

no

i do not think that all men "need" it and i know you dont have to live with it.

[seabeyond]

265. my 20 yr old niece

just married is having a tough time with a hubby that excessively watches porn. she doesnt like it. it makes her feel bad. one of his favorite is gang rape of a girl. girls screaming and crying and niece is getting sick, cant figure out how this is entertaining and she is suppose to be turned on enough to have sex with hubby, but hey.... as long as he enjoys right? there are things he does for her after all.

[ZombieHorde]

267. This is why people should live together before they get married.

excessively watches porn

How much is excessive? Three hours a day?

[seabeyond]

268. but i gotta say....

had to laugh at the.... you silly. on the reply above. that was cute

every morning before work from what i hear.

but then i just listened and nodded. and a hmmmmm. some things i just really do not need to know.

[ZombieHorde]

272. Gang rape porn sounds like a weird way to start the day.

What are your feelings concerning cartoons with pornographic scenes? Is it less offensive than live action porn?

[seabeyond]

277. i have seen

a few small clips on the net. they were funny ones though. i saw a commercial in france on condoms, not porn but was an anitmated... it was funny.

i dont know if it is the actual porn that bothers me though. what bothers me is the sexualization of women to such an extent that i feel men have been conditioned to see all females as a thing. it isn't just porn. everywhere we look, every second of every day some female is positioned to turn a man on. all the shows, the women are placed to stimulate a male. and the men are conditioned to believe that is all they are about.

the last 8 yrs of macho males and living in texas as long as i have, listening to the crudeness and vulgarity that men use talking about females is the turn off. i am told men respect these women. there isn't any respect in what i am hearing.

listening to how men talk about women on du is the turn off.

cenk, i love his politics, but the way he talks about women.

i can do her. i hear it so much. well asshole, she wont be doing you. how crude, yet a way for a man to feel one up on her. booster his ego. it smacks of adolescence and grown men are thinking they are cool.

i am simply tired of all of that

every day our news has a story about some naked woman or a woman in a sex act. stripper. prostitute teacher. porn star running for senate. madonna nude picture 37k.

women are continually and consistently portrayed sexually. and i think it is doing damage.

i would say, without exploring it much, animated porn may be less, but if it is entertainment raping women then no.... just as offensive, for me, not all people. i was raped. i dont find it "stimulating"

[defendandprotect]

168. Well, we keep hearing that's true . . .

but I also hear women like football . . .

[Maru Kitteh]

178. I am the football enthusiast in our home, hubs now loves the game thanks to me.

Porn? I plead the fifth.

[MadBadger]

15. ANd here comes the "Morals" Fuckers trying to force their ways on others.

Spare us.

[LanternWaste]

65. Self-delete.

Self-delete.

[Taverner]

99. Yep - you know they have fundie assholes on DU too

Just like on the Rapture Ready board!

[Greyhound]

17. So how would you eliminate it from the public discourse? n/t

[dem629]

19. Get over yourself. n/t

[ecstatic]

22. Did you grow up in a strict religious home?

[cliffordu]

28. LOL

How is Falwell University???

[FreeState]

36. Guess you have never seen gay porn - you know the female submission - Heterocentrist much? n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Glad someone caught that!

:thumbsup:

The porn I watch sure as hell doesn't objectify women.

[Dr.Phool]

44. Besides that it causes blindness and callouses.

[endarkenment]

123. and sticky sheets

that is the true horror.

[stuntcat]

45. I..

and I think it's DUMB too. There's something about that much human skin I just don't need to see :puke:

To each their own though! I just think porn is ugly.

[EstimatedProphet]

54. Then don't look at it

People have a sexual side, and as long as they do there will be a demand for imagery to fulfill that side.

[Strong Atheist]

56. Of course, if we where all naked, it would be less

necessary...

[saltpoint]

67. You could say the same about Tupperware parties, though.

That they are reductive and demeaning to females, that they 'enslave' females in the bonds of malicious capitalism to perform service roles for their husbands.

Should we ban Tupperware parties too?

If males were to hold a Tupperware party or an Avon event, would that still be sexism?

You know, it would not hurt some of you shrieking pseudo-feminists to read the books and essays of your own movement.

[HughBeaumont]

72. Wow, that's just . . . dumb.

This just reeks of the "all sex is rape" canard.

:eyes:

[foxfeet]

85. Some porn doesn't depict women at all.

[Taverner]

97. Wow - a real live Puritan!

Tell me do you wear a funny hat and stockings too?

Do you walk around the house saying "thee" and "thou"

:eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

101. I'm a woman and I like porn

Since when is hell illegal, btw.

[NaturalHigh]

114. Do what I do, then.

Don't watch it. It seems to work OK for me.

[chrisa]

116. Those who chose to star in porn are at fault.

But if you think about it, if porn were illegal, people would be getting kidnapped for the process of making porn; or it would be an underground business. Not that I like the idea of it either.

Btw, I've seen weirdoes looking at porn in public. I was like "WTF!?"

[Maru Kitteh]

181. At fault for WHAT??? Acting????

My husband loves me for MYSELF. He respects my opinion and seeks my input on damn near almost everything. He's the best friend I've ever had. He surprises me randomly with every manner of tender gift not because of an occasion but because he actually LIKES me. Our favorite people are - EACH OTHER.

We. watch. porn.

You probably certainly find some most of that porn disgusting - even though it features nothing but consenting adults.



Don't watch it.


See?

Done.

[Scout]

193. "Acting????"

you call that acting? :rofl:

[FreeState]

251. Its certainly not real life...

that and most of the actors are paired together via a director - usually its forced chemistry at best - so yes I would call that acting. Some are better at it than others Im sure:)

[Incitatus]

129. What what the punishment be for someone who possesses it?

How about someone who makes it?

[Toasterlad]

141. I Can Solemly Swear to You That I Have Never Polluted My Mind With Female Submission.

[Alexander]

145. I was wondering when the psychotic fascists would show up.

:eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

157. So which part should be illegal? Consenting adults fucking? Consenting adults filming?

Consenting adults filming fucking? Consenting adults watching films of other consenting adults fucking? Consenting adults paying other consenting adults for films of consenting adults fucking?

How, exactly, would you implement this grand workers' paradise of no-films-of-fucking, sir?

[Dr.Phool]

176. I don't watch it or read it. And I could give a shit less if someone else does.

But, I care for censorship and suppression even less.

[ZombieHorde]

227. Don't you mean it elevates humans to sex objects? nt

[BlooInBloo]

9. I think I ate too many ribs tonite.

[chrisa]

121. Then eat more. :P n/t

[PM Martin]

13. It should not be censored*.

So long as the contents are of consenting adults and it is not being put into the hands of minors.

[seabeyond]

20. but it is no longer segregated to just those that want it, consenting adults. it is mainstreamed in

our society to all of us. those of us that dont want it. and our children.

btw... i dont see it as a moral issue. i do see it as conditioning to objectifying females and is causing problems in this society. i dont think it should be illegal. just to be clear. because if a female has issue and concerns about porn, then the name calling starts in all kinds of manner to denigrate the female into submission in accepting porn.

you know, the standard

prude
fundamentalist
puritan
moralist
asexual
ugly
ect...

cant just be that i actually think porn is objectification of women.

but the argument is always used it is for consenting adults and not allowed to children. that is not the reality.

[MadBadger]

25. It amazes me how people think porn stops at a women having sex.

[HillbillyBob]

27. Can't say that about me..I Only look at men having sex, and I know

the difference from objects and humans..the objects are usually getting shoved....
No women in the porn I look at.

[rpannier]

31. gay porn would be what then?

[dysfunctional press]

59. "it is mainstreamed inour society to all of us. those of us that dont want it. and our children."

:eyes:

where exactly do people who don't want to see "porn" subjected to it? :shrug:

[MadBadger]

92. Janet Jackson's boobie of course

duuuhhhh

:P

[Taverner]

100. Then stop working, paying taxes and eating meat

All three objectify people or animals in some way

Gimmie a break!

[PM Martin]

150. I will agree that is has gotten relatively out of hand

in the past 7 years or so.

[RadicalTexan]

161. what s/he said.

I do not think it should be illegal, but I think it's anti-human.

[Maru Kitteh]

183. How the hell exactly do you figure human beings actually end up on this planet?

IT'S THE SEX DRIVE.

There is nothing more human than the sex drive. It's what we build our very civilizations around.

[MadBadger]

14. As the great Philosopher Trekkie Monster once said:

The Internet is for Porn!

[Strong Atheist]

62. .

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645

[Maru Kitteh]

184. Um. That was freakin' funny.

[Strong Atheist]

194. Thank you. I think so. I put it in my journal. nt.

[Greyhound]

16. I think the question is morally objectionable, but should still be legal. n/t

[Hardrada]

21. It's a bad habit but it can be licked!

[liberalpress]

75. You can shove it! (but gently, please)

[ismnotwasm]

23. Other

I object to the huge gender inequities. Actually porn is simply a reflection of those inequities. Women are disposable commodities, and yes some women choose to be a commodity. I understand all that, I ain't arguing it.

I object to the corrupt nature of the porn industry, it's kinda like a street wall street, to use the most convenient analogy. And yes I do know a thing or two about it, I ain't arguing that either.


Morality implies some sort of sexual judgment, and quite frankly I don't care what consenting adults do to each other.

(Somethings I think are hilarious, usually when certain acts are done with what is evidently a sense of being sexual sophisticated.--------------------

And then end up visually on someone's cell phone or website. Of course, at heart I'm not very nice, but I really really wish people would think it through before putting their shit out in the electronosphere. I recently got a wrong txt message from a naked woman. Do I get a naked man? Oh Hell no. A goddam naked women looking for some old boyfriend. Jesus. With lame background music.)

[Historic NY]

24. Its entertainment...like rush.

[Marr]

29. I think porn is wonderfully objectionable.

[rpannier]

30. Where's the one for

I don't think porn is morally objectionable and should be illegal

[JeffreyWilliamson]

32. Wow, some of the answers here...

For those posters who stated that they think porn should be illegal due to the fact that it subjugates women, a question:

"What is your opinion of gay porn? And in particular, male-only porn?"

Is your objection only that women are involved, or that people are subjugated? I ask because, in the few posts that objected, they only seemed to object because women were involved. In either type of video I've ever seen, each partner seemed to completely enjoy themselves, regardless of gender.

I suspect that people involve themselves in porn, and that they equally purchase, rent, or download porn, because we are sexual beings that have certain "needs". I've never noticed any female porn star NOT enjoying her job, in much the same way that I've never noticed a gay male pornstar NOT enjoying his job.

It becomes subjugation when people do not consent. Our sexuality is natural--all of us are driven to it to some extent. We have to stop assuming that only men want sex, because that means that we have assumed that women do not want sex. I'm of the opinion that, moral opinions aside, we all want sex, regardless...

(Edited for clarity.)

[Withywindle]

34. That's because men are raw physical, rutting animals with an 8-inch conscience....

...and women are emotional, spiritual beings who really only enjoy sex when they're with a soulmate.


So men in porn, that's just what men do. But women, now, they MUST be exploited. Because there's no such thing as a woman with a mercenary approach to sex. Or women who don't have many inhibitions and don't want them. Or women who are exhibitionists. Or women who like a lot of partners, or....



Anyway, I hope it's obvious, but just in case, :sarcasm:

[JeffreyWilliamson]

37. Thank you...

We have this stereotype going on in our society where we view all men as wanting sex and all women as wanting family. We need to stop that and realize that both sexes want both things, and that there are very big evolutionary reasons for us both wanting these things. I won't try and get into a science lesson here...

We need to wake up to the fact that branding women as sexual prudes who are taken advantage of at a man's slightest glance is sexist in itself. If we are going to stand up and proclaim that women and men are equal, then we need to be willing to go all the way--both genders are capable of the same needs, and wants...

There's nothing wrong with a man that wants sex, as long as they confine themselves to the relationship barriers that they find themselves in, and have agreed to. There's nothing wrong with a woman that wants sex, as long as they confine themselves to the relationship barriers that they find themselves in, and have agreed to.

We have got to stop this stereotypical idea of choice between sexes that suggests that a man's choice is to have sex or not, and that a woman's choice is to have a child or not. That stereotype implies, at the heart of the matter, that the men dictate the end choice to the woman, and that the inferior choice remains with the women.

Being pro-choice means having a right to decide whether one has sex or not, and means having the right to determine what one wants based upon the outcome of that activity.

[seabeyond]

49. there is also the stereotype that anyone opposed to porn has a problem with sex

kinda like you and the other poster make.

reading lounge and hearing how many arent getting it, i gotta believe porn is being used as a replacement. at least i am getting it. to make the continual and always assumption that to not like porn has anything to do with being a sexual prude is absurd. i listen to the pro porn people go on as if they are more sexually adventurous, and active and it just isnt true. i can just as easily assume if life consists of porn then you are the one not actually having the sex and the one that lacks.

it is an arrogantly wrong assumption to make that porn = a more adventerous sex life. it is even kinda sad to suggest that porn is needed for that.

as one poster suggested, it is a teenager game. once you are getting the real thing porn falls along the wayside, unless of course you need it as a crutch.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

57. There are plenty of married couples...

Who role-play, watch porn, shop at adult boutiques--all to spice up their sex lives.

My issue wasn't that I think porn's great because it's a fantastic substitute for what I'm not getting.

I was just curious what people who chimed in against porn because it subjugates women or makes them out to be some kind of "meat" thought of gay porn. Who's being subjugated or being presented as the "meat" in an all-male video, or do the people who offered the subjugation argument think that in an all-male video there's no victim since surely the men chose to participate?

My point was this--If an individual disapproves of porn that's fine by me, but basing that disapproval on the "using women as objects" argument kind of assumes that women are not capable of choosing to enjoy sex in whatever capacity they so choose, thus objectifying them in the process.

[seabeyond]

63. one of the things i have found in these threads

is an inability to go beyond the agenda of porn.

your conclusion, the last paragraph is your own perception of what people who do not like porn is saying. i am telling you that is not the conclusion that people who do not like porn have come to. it is totally off base, so of course you cannot understand.

you see it as an empowerment to female sexuality. many do. i dont believe it is.

at a young age, sexually exploring as we are meant to, i played in porn. it was not harmful. i was sexually exploring and checked it out. after a bit i came to my own conclusions. it did feel exploitive of females. i can go further into that point, but it is just one of many points. i also could see/feel how porn could be addictive, a crutch used in an unhealthy way.

i dont think porn is inherently evil, wrong or abusive, i think that porn is a weapon, loaded gun that can be used for all of that.

over the years i have watched porn abused in so many ways. i have watched it hurt many people, both men and women. and children. we ignore all of that. deny it. pretend it isnt there. or acknowledge it in the shallowest of ways. but i have seen it too many times, with too many people. i have watched men time and again use it to hurt their mate. use it to control, denigrate or make the woman feel bad about who they are. that doesnt feel good to me

i have watched it sexualize our youth that should be walking their sexual journey in their own age appropriate world, instead we have given our adult sex world to our children, and young children, sexualizing our youth in a really unhealthy way. there is much more on this too, but not going to go into it all.

people state if it is just between consenting adults, what does it harm. ok. but it isnt. it is being mainstreamed and when people on this board talk about porn, they state how porn is mainstreamed and in all our lives, deal with it. but when we talk about porn good or bad, they use the argument between consenting adults. those are opposite of each other. cannot have it one way or another. if porn stayed in its own little world, and i didnt have to have it, or my kids didnt have to have it..... i would be a lot quieter on it

then i hear the argument when our kids are fed it that it is just teaching them sex cause all the parents dont talk with their kids about sex and they need to learn about sex. that one.... i can speak more on too.

then i am told how much males respect these females and how it is not objectifying, dehumanizing women. but when they are not on a thread defending their porn and how it isnt dehumanizing, i hear the male say the filtiest, most disrespectful things about women and their bodies that i cannot reconcile that there is any kind of respect there at all for females.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

71. Well, you won't see me pushing porn on kids...

I do think that there is a little bit of that in our culture, but not widespread pushing of porn on kids. I'd agree that there is a trend in our culture to sexualize kids too early, but I don't see a huge mainstreaming of porn on schoolkids or anything. Among my peers, porn is still the video tapes and magazines that you hide up on the top shelf of the closet.

you see it as an empowerment to female sexuality

I don't really see it either one way or the other. I just think that it's naive to say that people like Jenna Jameson aren't deciding for themselves to participate. And the example I chose to use was a comparison to gay porn, because it removes the female aspect while preserving the activity in question.

Are the participants in gay male pornography objectifying anyone?

[seabeyond]

77. you never heard me argue that jenna whomever isnt deciding for herself.

as far as gay porn goes, i have not even a little participated in it so i cannot give an opinion on it. i do not spout opinion without knowledge or experience. it is just stupid. at a guess, and from what i hear there is a submissive role in the gay porn too. but i cannot debate or discuss it.

the in thing for kids is a group of guys getting together in a house and a girl on her knees giving blow jobs to one guy after another.

sending nude pictures thru phones, sharing with all the kids at school and humilitating, and pictures ending up on internet

sat with my 10 yr old watching superbowl and watched the go daddy commercial. some woman for no reason sticks boobs out and starts pulling top down. dorito commercial of a women in a conservative dress being stripped down to undies, not any regular norm undies, but the whole madonna/whore mentality undies.

fathers, especiallyt he x's are taking 10 and 12 yr olds to hooters for an afternoon of boobs and wings. bringing them to school and gathering all the boys around to have hooter wings cause they are just so good.

kids getting text messages on sell phones of porn

my ten yr olds mailbox inundated with sites to visit

male enhancement commercials continually on history and discovery channel. condoms with vibrators. male in elevator doing a brunette, she leaves, a blonde walks in and he does her

levi showing near naked or naked girls in death pose

i dont even let kids watch primetime with all the junk of males think with little head and women are their to have boobs hang out and turn guy on. in the past kids could actually watch tv at night with family. not any more.

fathers watching porn channel with kids spending the night.

not having safeguards on computers and not monitoring kids

it goes on and on. it is not just in the adult world. we insist on feeding it to not only our kids, but..... mainstreaming it thru out our society to condition us all to accept

[Toasterlad]

138. Try Being a Parent, If You're So Concerned About Your Kids

Why is it society's responsibility to raise your spawn? If you want to keep your kids ignorant about sex until they either get knocked up at 13 or shamefully touch themselves while watching Charlie's Angels reruns on TBS at 25, go for it. Pay attention to where your kids are going, who they're talking to, and what they're doing/reading/watching. In short, do your fucking job. The rest of us can handle the idea of sex and the reality of porn just fine, thanks. It's you (and your kids, poor devils) who have the problem. Solve it yourself. Stay locked away in your house with your blocked-channel TV and homeschool your future sexual misfits.

[seabeyond]

139. so the two options is give our children porn, or lock in house, blocked channels, homeschool, sexual

misfits? these are truly the only two options you can see?

[Toasterlad]

140. Not Really. I'll Admit to Exaggerating.

My point is that you're making too big a deal out of some harmless pictures of people fucking. But I really can't stand it when people start with the "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!!!" hand-wringing. Back in my day, parents took responsibility for their kids; they didn't expect other people to change their behavior just because they managed to reproduce.

[seabeyond]

142. what you did do, was make a lot of assumptions. wanting to defend your

agenda and just simply go into attack mode pinning me as a preceived, imaginary enemy. and you attack without knowledge or desire for any knowledge, just quickly put me in my place.

that is why there are only a few i will talk, actually discuss, my issue on this subject cause so many are not willing to listen whether they agree or not.... ignoring all that is said and creating a false argument.

you say back in the old day

back in the good old days is not today, and what our children face today is not the same as yesterday, firstly

too many parents are not parenting and just "allowing" the children, way more than back in the old day, creating more of a challenge for us parents

because as a parent i recognize and address these issues does not inspire hand wringing but doing exactly what you demanded of me.... take responsiblity and being a parent

to acknowledge what our children are facing, and having to address them with my very young children, way sooner than kids EVER had to address them "back in the old days" is robbbing the children of something we had back in the old days

but being a parent that is responsible for my children, i have had to address these issues way before their time.

regardless, the last couple years of my young boys learning their penis just is not good enough, and will not satisfy a woman..... before they even know what the fuck that is all about.... and they need to take a pill brings us to a discussion that any of us didnt have to have back in the good old days

and so much more

[Toasterlad]

147. Every Parent ALWAYS Says "It's Tougher Now Than It Used to Be"

Even if that's true, it doesn't change the point: you are responsible for your kids. You chose to have them, not me or anyone else. If you weren't up to the job, you shouldn't have had kids.

I don't really feel like I was "attacking" YOU (although I admit the snark flies fast and loose) so much as your position: i.e. porn is filthy and a danger to our children. I don't agree with either of those points, and you have yet to make a persuasive argument for either. So far, you're basically just saying the same thing over and over: porn is filthy, and danger to our children. I disagree. So far, the law is on my side (and given the HUGE amount of money that the porn industry generates, is likely to remain so).

[seabeyond]

165. you argue what i do not say. you ignore what i say

so you can have your rant.

it is no wonder you have no thought to children as you demonstrate exact behavior of a child

[foxfeet]

88. You seem to confuse porn with advertising.

While I freely admit that advertising makes rampant use of sexual imagery to sell stuff, I think your real complaint should be directed at advertising itself. It holds nothing as too sacred to be used to move merchandise.

And if a husband is using porn to hurt, control or denigrate his mate, porn is not the problem. Abuse is the problem, and if there no porn, something else would be used as the weapon.

[Withywindle]

235. am I "the other poster"?

If so, call me out to my face.

I NEVER said there's anything wrong with people who don't like porn. It's an aesthetic choice. Your not liking porn is about the same, morally speaking, as me not liking war movies (even the great, Oscar-winning ones) or romantic comedies or soap operas or lite pop R&B or football (all of which fill legitimate emotional roles for the people who respond to them). Doesn't make either of us better or worse people, it just is. You're the one implying there's something wrong with people who do.

The argument about "the children" carries no weight whatsoever with me - if I'd wanted to be responsible for children, I'd've had some. I don't, so I didn't. But when I was 12 and insanely sexually curious, I wasn't watching nudie videos--I was reading the Nancy Friday and Shere Hite books, which I bought at the drugstore with my allowance, and no one blinked. Gave me years of wank fodder under the radar, and Goddess bless both those women for writing them. My parents were pretty good about The Talk when I was 8 or so, but the raw mechanics weren't what I wanted to know about - I wanted to understand the RAW LUST that kept me up all night **craving** something unattainable. You don't want to hear about this from your parents, because you don't want to imagine your parents doing it. It's crossing a boundary. The hormonal force of sex is something that young people *should* find safe ways of exploring on their own. I am all FOR some form of porn in this regard -- no one ever got pregnant, or raped, or caught an STD from pictures, stories, or movies.

When I was 12, in 1981, I already had a few classmates who were passing around Hustler in the back of the school bus, and I already knew one girl who had been raped. This is not some new thing that the porn industry invented. For that matter, I remember in the old graveyard by my elementary school, there were at least two female graves from the 19th century of a "beloved wife of..." with the dates only 15 years apart. In one case, there were two tiny baby graves beside her.

Porn is for consenting adults, in its decent form. And teenagers desperate for it WILL stumble across it, no doubt - as they always have. OH, the humanity.

[seabeyond]

254. ya... you are the other poster

days ago, and i didnt go back in and read the post you are referring to. i wasnt calling you out, i was talking to the poster and you were part of the conversation. but calling out is like.... childish, lol, and i am way old to do that. IF i had something to say to you (like now) i would post to your post (like now, lol). we have talked about this before. i am well versed on your position on this issue. and i totally respect your opinion on it. i may not agree, but doesnt really matter.

what i see on the porn thread is all the pure of porn, the non harmful aspect of porn. if we only hold the conversation to the healthy, nondamaging, consenting adult aspect of porn, you are right, there isnt much to say. i have been clear that porn in and of itself is not a bad thing. but there are a lot of tenacles that reach out beyond that, once a human is brought into it, that is harmful/hurtful. and all the many problems that it causes are ignored, dismissed and are not talked about at any cost. that makes it an intellectually dishonest conversation.

then we hear (below) the tired and well used in europe and areas of south america..... i am old, been around a long time, i never enviously looked over seas at the women in those countries. i never wanted to be european or south american so i could have female nakedness all around me. i never felt that it was a sexual freedom for them nor did it make them equal to men. i never admired their equality over those of american women. i was thankful that i was a female in the u.s. i think we have it all over them, or we did. i do not think objectifying women brings an equality and i do not think that the women in europe or south america have equality over the u.s. women.

i am sure we disagree on this aspect also.

[Scout]

153. the one on the bottom

"Who's being subjugated or being presented as the "meat" in an all-male video, or do the people who offered the subjugation argument think that in an all-male video there's no victim since surely the men chose to participate?"

yay, cuz all gay men always treat their sex partners with respect, and never dominate/subjugate.

[defendandprotect]

169. Yeah... I recall reading that John List and his wife used to watch porn . . . !!!

[BuddhaGirl]

79. pssssst!

"as one poster suggested, it is a teenager game. once you are getting the real thing porn falls along the wayside, unless of course you need it as a crutch."

Maybe that was your experience, but not for all. DH and I have a very healthy sex life, and we enjoy watching porn together occasionally.

[seabeyond]

81. yes

i know. and i am not saying a single thing about people that play with porn.... if you were to actually take to heart what i am saying in these posts, you would not feel the need to clarify to me.

but thanks for sharing.

[Maru Kitteh]

186. It is an astronomically arrogant and ignorant assumption to make that

if you are "getting the real thing" that a couple cannot enthusiastically enjoy porn together - or just as enthusiastically they enjoy all kinds of sex without it.

It's your little attempt to belittle those who are more honest than you about watching (let's say for argument) two other human beings having sex and enjoying each other's bodies, and how that makes you feel.

Porn is and has been a part of culture for millennia. The most famous paintings in the world feature food, sex, and God, even in cultures that revered their women. It's no accident.


ee-dee-ot: typo

[Warren DeMontague]

224. Absolutely. I used to work for a chain of indie video stores, and lots of couples would come in

for smut together. All the time.

Lots of women liked it, too. It wasn't just horny guys.

[Withywindle]

172. You're welcome.

Personally, I find the stereotype of women as barely-sexual romantics who live kink-free lives and can't possibly ever enjoy performing or watching someone else's performance to be really, deeply offensive. Way to try to drag us back to Victorian ideas about female sexuality, folks. Hell no, I won't go.

Porn is about the performance of sexual fantasies, period. As a woman, I resent the idea that men hold all the agency when it comes to fantasies.

Nobody has to like porn. Nobody is saying there's anything wrong with people (of any gender or orientation) who don't like it. But as a woman who does like it, I'm sick of being told that ALL of us are statistically insignificant outliers who are trying to divert the "real" discussion, which is "always" about men oppressing women. Er, no. We're not. And no. It's not.

[ismnotwasm]

73. Dude

I was going to stay out of this,(sigh) but listen, Porn is fucking ACTING. Actual enjoyment may or may not occur, but generally not in an extended film shoot, or in complicated scenes that have to be redone (in the better made porn) Porn has producers, directors, actors. (All very sad puns intended)

BTW, Gay men are still men. The "what about male gay porn" argument is a fairly standard apologist response, and one that doesn't logically follow when you closely examine feminists arguments against porn. I'm not arguing it here, I could, but I ain't. I will mention that Lesbian porn rarely gets brought up into that particular arguement for reasons that should be very apparent.

Religious arguments now, they have "moral" objections involving sex itself, and IMO are full of shit. I hate when the two get confused but I'm resigned to it, at least here at DU.

I'm not out to take away anybody's porn, although there is a high creep factor in it's overuse, as I'm sure you'd agree.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. "a fairly standard apologist response"

I don't see what there is to apologize for. But it is pretty standard.

"one that doesn't logically follow when you closely examine feminists arguments against porn."

The "feminist" objection is that porn objectifies women. Gay porn contains no women, thus it's a simple, logical refutation of the entire "feminist" argument.

"Religious arguments now, they have "moral" objections involving sex itself, and IMO are full of shit. "

As is the "feminist" argument.

[Richard Steele]

33. I support it in theory, but have concerns about how it works out in the real world.

There are some Porn performers who are well-adjusted
individuals doing what they do as a matter of choice
and using the money they earn to lead rich & fulfilling lives.

But it's just a FACT that a lot of young women in the porn industry
would rather be doing just about anything else to make money;
they are there as a "choice of last resort", and that's not a HAPPY choice.

[Withywindle]

35. What, the PETA threads weren't getting you enough attention?

Anyway, :popcorn:

[Hippo_Tron]

185. Oh I'm sure there will be a thread about both PETA and porn

DU never ceases to amaze me.

[Withywindle]

229. Well, I DID once see this blurry video from the 70s called 'Barnyard Love...'

:evilgrin:

[JVS]

38. Where is the option for those who think it's not morally objectionable but want it banned?

:popcorn:

[Taverner]

96. Um - Free Republic

:rofl:

[MrSlayer]

40. I thought it was great until I started having real sex.

Porn is for teenagers and those who aren't getting any. You get over it real quick when you start getting some.

[defendandprotect]

170. How many men actually have "relationships" with magazine photos of females. . .!!!

and think that's the real thing!!!

:evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

171. How many males have "relationships" with Victoria's Secret catalogs . . .

and pictures of females in magazines -- !!!

Real realtionships with females are a bit different -- !!

[MrSlayer]

175. Indeed. They are much better.

I left porn in the dust once I got in my first band.

[rebecca_herman]

41. I find it objectionable but it probably shouldn't be illegal

It does go against my moral beliefs for various reasons, so I choose not to watch it. I do feel terrible for the women who have said they only worked in porn because they had been sexually abused previously and had terrible self-worth as anything but a sex object. People can choose to watch porn, I won't steal your porn, but it's not something I'll ever feel positive about. But I'm not gonna run around saying "ZOMG PORN EVIL" unless someone asks my opinion in which case I will be honest.

I also have concerns that with so much really hardcore/violent porn online some young people will see it, it will be their first exposure to sex on such a graphic level, and get a skewed and unrealistic view of sex and what they can expect out of sex partners, before they've had the chance to have actual sexual and relationship experience themselves.

[ZombieHorde]

233. How do you feel about animated porn?

[Withywindle]

245. No one's going to answer this.

I would LOVE to have a substantive debate about the *content* of all the *many* genres of porn. Won't happen, because most of the people against it haven't seen enough to talk about it intelligently. They just caught a few minutes of some video with some all-over-shaved blonde on Xanax who looked bored, and turned it off.

Anime porn is the shit. Seriously. Any fantasy imaginable can be put on screen, and there's no question of any real people being exploited, cause there aren't any real people. Then we'd have to start talking about fantasies, which is where the real meat (heh!) of a meaningful porn discussion happens.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Wow, we're done with PETA & guns already?

Ho-kay. Porn it is.

:thumbsup:

[Earth_First]

55. It comes and goes on a two-to-three week cycle...

(EVERY pun intended)

[Warren DeMontague]

43. I think it's the best return we've ever got on our Military-Industrial Complex Investment, actually.

64 years of Cold War/War On Terra eating up our tax dollars, at the very least we deserve a planetwide computer network that can deliver pictures of hot nekkid ladies for free.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. It's Porn. Not For Everybody, But Not A Damn Thing Wrong With It Either.

[CTyankee]

76. Only that which truly attempts to torture and degrade women.

I don't understand why porn has to be linked to violence against women as SOME porn is. Other than this caveat I agree with you. See my post about WOMEN producing porn...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. Way I See It, Villifying Porn Because Of A Few Bad Eggs Would Be As Irrational As Villifying Clothes

because of some over the top sweatshops that make some.

[CTyankee]

107. I wish I could totally believe that. I'd like to see some studies on it.

I'm not up on the literature about the topic. It would be interesting to investigate, tho...

[Strong Atheist]

109. I am against clothes. Viva nudism!

:evilgrin:

[specialed]

47. The internet is for porn.....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645

[-..__...]

52. They got that right.

I wonder if Al Gore ever imagined his creation would become the filth riddled cesspool that it is today?

Truthfully... I think if not for porn, the whole Internet would have suffered (at least for home users); pornographic websites help pay a lot of the bills that keeps the medium running.

[lunatica]

48. If it's not exploitive I say go for it...

To each his/her own.

[ZombieHorde]

234. How do you determine if the porn is exploitive?

[Eric Condon]

248. Easy. As long as it features consenting adults. nt

[-..__...]

50. Who cares what 3 consenting adults do...

in the privacy of a cheap motel room.

[Zuiderelle]

58. I think a poll about porn is really effective flamebait.

:eyes:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

60. I have family in the porn industry

And to this day I am amazed that somebodies daddy hasn't shown up at the office with an Ak-47, they prey on stupid girls who came to Los Angeles thinking they would be discovered in a matter of weeks and many months later are a few inches from homeless. The ones willing to do the really sick stuff are usually drug addicts and prostitutes already.

I am sure there are some girls who dream about being porn stars - and for each of them I would bet there are another 9 who are participating for "other" reasons.

They get paid practically nothing, most get little more than they would get for performing the same act in a back alley. Industry PR aside condom use is generally discouraged and royalties? Forget about it.

and then there is the tax evasion - how the IRS hasn't come down on the valley I will never know.

[Juche]

282. The only issue I have is the psychological health of the actors

That is the only part of porn that bothers me. I feel it should be legal, but I wonder about the mental health of a person who decides to do porn in the first place and if watching porn is exploitation because of that. I doubt there are many women in porn who do not have long histories of abuse or drugs. I'm sure there are some and good for them. But by and large, I doubt it. Anyway, point is I feel weird when watching porn because I have a little voice inside me telling me that chances are she is just doing it because she has been abused in the past and has problems with boundaries. If I'm wrong great, but I saw a study saying 60-80% of porn actresses had been abused as children.

However, you can make the same argument about musicians or other artists. Many musicians have serious problems with drug abuse or histories of being abused or mistreated, and people still enjoy the music they make. I really don't know, as I'm drawn on the issue. On one hand I don't like the idea of getting gratification from sex acts performed by someone who has probably experienced alot of abuse in their life, but you can make the same criticism of many other artists (musicians & actors for example). Stephen King comes from a background of being humiliated and abandoned, and he has suffered alot of drug problems and depression because of it. But that pain fuels his creativity, I still read his books, and I don't feel guilty for enjoying them.

I really don't know. It should be legal, but I still feel guilty for watching it. But I don't feel guilty listening to music or reading fiction books. So again, I don't know.

[Xenotime]

61. Most people like watching others fuck. It's perfectly natural.

[Warren DeMontague]

156. I would qualify that, though.

It's seriously dependent on who the "Others" in question actually are.

[saltpoint]

64. It suffers from formulaic predictability and is often about endurance rather

than erotic expression, and it is numbingly unimaginative.

On the other hand it is in part marketable correspondent to how repressive the surrounding society is on the question of human sexual expression.

It deserves the same First Amendment protections as any other medium, even if our most gifted and imaginative artists are not usually involved in its production.

[Phoonzang]

66. It's um....useful.

:freak:

[Iggo]

68. I like looking at nekkid women.

So sue me.

[JuniperLea]

155. Nekkid wimins isn't porn... eom

[Iggo]

174. The ones I look at is.

[LanternWaste]

69. I find it rather astounding that the current...

I find it rather astounding that the current, popular and ever-so-trendy mainstream idea is that American culture is prudish-- as we sell, market, distribute, purchase, view, engage in and prioritize sex.

It's popular, it's available, it's part and parcel of mainstream commercialization. The imagery makes up a vast amount of commercial time. It's used to sell everything from cars to insurance. It's profitable for many pharmaceutical companies. We are subjected to the imagery on a daily basis.

Yet we continue to maintain that the U.S. has Victorian-era standard when it comes to sex. Hardly....

[seabeyond]

70. every sec of every day sexual stimulation is thrown at us and then

we say..... think about sex every three sec. well no shit. lol lol. and they make sure you do. but then, isnt that conditioning. and do we really want to be controlled because these assholes insist on conditioning us to be what we arent for their own greedy means.

[Upton]

89. Then don't look at it

meanwhile lets not trample on everyone else's freedom.... that's just not American

[LanternWaste]

104. I think we are a rather enigmatic nation sometimes.

I think we are a rather enigmatic and contradictory people at times. :shrug:





I imagine the best we as individuals can do is try to maintain our own honor and our own dignity, whilst suffering the paper bullets from the well-meaning but misguided "well-just-don't-look-at-any-commercials" crowd.

[seabeyond]

198. contradictory is right

the whole argument back and forth depending on what is being defended. a dishonesty, lying to self on so many levels that i have issues with.

we are a conditioned people and revel in it allowing corp, media to decide who we are and as sheep we willingly follow.

women from the beginning of time actually thought they were less than male. they actually thought that they could not make decisions and it was male to direct and guide us. many walked away from that conditioning and fell right into this one to PROVE to the world that they too were sexual beings. and have convinced themselves that they are respected.

and a male has no more control than to think with his little head. some men are actually offended by what media and porn world insist that truly is all they are. they are helpless. what male would brag about that being who he is? but they do. and say it often about themselves. dna makes it so.

[Withywindle]

244. I think it's prudish because:

Men can go shirtless all they like, but women can't, and some people even think breastfeeding is "dirty."

Female frontal nudity in movies gets an R, but on the extremely rare occasion there's frontal male nudity or even (horrors!) a suggestion of m/m sex, censors call for an NC-17. The NC-17 rating was invented in the first place for 'Henry and June,' a very artsy and intelligent movie about the writers Anais Nin and Henry Miller and the latter's wife June, who had a bisexual triad relationship, which was waaayyyy too much for American mores--and yet the filmmakers stood their ground and insisted that their film, while definitely erotic, was also intellectual and thought-provoking and didn't deserve the "X" rating which had been associated with mindless porn by then (never mind that an X-rated film, 'Midnight Cowboy', had won the Oscar for Best Picture once).

Topless and nude beaches are totally par for the course in Europe and parts of South America. Here? Errr.

The age of consent is much higher here than in most of Europe.

Sex education and condom distribution and AIDS prevention programs that actually work are generally much better in Europe, and parts of South America (I remember once on a popular beach in Brazil, workers with baskets full of condoms and dental dams circulating--and trying to push DDs on me and the lady I was with, not realizing that, as different as our complexions and body types are, she's not my lesbian lover, she's my MOTHER. :blush:)

Is anyone really traumatized by seeing ad pictures of bare boobs in the subway? Many generations of Europeans have survived it.

Many European countries are years ahead of us in GLBT civil rights. Why are we so far behind? Some dumbass prudish superstitions.

[MicaelS]

252. Excellent post thank you!

Most thought almost word for word.

[Taverner]

87. I will post this once and only once - porn isn't just harmless, its downright HEALTHY

Whether we are talking the SexLit out there (including FanFic Porn), Playboy, Voyeurweb all the way to Hardcore B&D and even the simulated rape porn (not my cup of tea personally) - it gives people a catharsis they wouldn't ordinarily have.

If you disagree fine - don't fucking look at it

If you feel the need to legislate, please, pretty please, FUCK THE HELL OFF!

[Strong Atheist]

94. Agreed.

:yourock:

[Withywindle]

241. From a smutty fanfic-scene participant, thank you!

I'm an old broad, and for a while I got a little creeped out when I found out that some of the writers of some of the kinkiest slash (male/male) stories out there were just teenagers.

Then I realized DAMN I wish I'd had the internet at their age. What an awesome way to explore sexual fantasies and have a writers' workshop at the same time, without having to worry about getting hit on in the flesh ('cause when it comes down to it, it's not sex, it's TYPING.) Good for them! Absolutely true that the brain is the #1 sex organ, and there is no better way to play safely than exchanging erotica online.

(And very few creepy old men involved, because from what I've seen in my 8 years or so there, the porny fanfiction scene is about 98% female, and half of that male 2% is gay.)

[MicaelS]

253. Can you please explain something?

I'm probably about your age and I'm clueless.

What is the attraction for heterosexual women to write and read slash? Back in the day, I remember reading "about" (not actually reading it) the Kirk / Spock slash stuff (esp the D/S and S/M stuff) and went WTF? Still don't get it to this day.....

[Withywindle]

261. Well, I'm bi but I'll take it on.

This discussion comes up within the slash community all the time, and people offer up a variety of reasons.

1. The same reason a lot of straight men like "lesbian" porn. One hot man good, two hot men better. :D

2. We're smitten with these particular characters, who happen to be male. We don't want to write or read about anyone else. Just these guys.

3. We want to write men as WE want them to be - overcoming their stoic macho conditioning (and the homophobia that often comes with it) and being gentle, passionate, vulnerable, and hot for each other.

4. It's a kind of escapism from the inequality and gender issues of het relationships. By writing two people of the same gender, there is a kind of equality there, and the sexy power imbalances can come from less fraught places (see, D/s and BDSM).

5. Some of us, on some level, envy men their social "freedom" to be sexually aggressive and horny without shame. By putting ourselves in male heads in fantasy, we can play with that.

6. Some of us are shameless voyeurs. We don't imagine ourselves _in_ the scene, we're content to watch.

7. Since queerness has been written out of so much history and literature, slash is a way to write it back in.

8. We get to do all of this with ridiculously cool fantasy and SF settings.

Not all these reasons apply to all slash fans, of course, and also, not all female slash fans are straight. You'd be surprised at how many lesbians like m/m slash. But these are the most common reasons I've seen people give.

[MicaelS]

262. Thanks so much n/t

[Upton]

90. There are always going to be some prudes

it's just surprising they exist here at DU.

[AndrewP]

91. I enjoy the heck out of it. Sue me.

[babylonsister]

93. I like it! Who cares? To each their own, and stay out of my bedroom!

:D

[Strong Atheist]

95. Agreed!

:yourock:

[flvegan]

103. My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[Withywindle]

111. But is it VEGAN cat food? n/t

[endarkenment]

125. One of my dogs has the stink breath of death

she is very sweet and lovable but you have to stay out of range of her exhale.

[noiretextatique]

112. who wants their daughter or granddaughter to be a porn star?

}( this is a far more interesting question.

[ZombieHorde]

236. Or to have premarital sex in general. nt

[NaturalHigh]

113. I think it is vile and offensive...

but as long as only consenting adults are involved, it should be legal. If someone wants to look at porn, it's none of my business.

[KG]

115. the weekly brazilian waxes for my palms have nothing to do with my porn addiction.

[WI_DEM]

117. What people do in their own homes doesn't matter to me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

118. Most of it resembles "The History of the Piston Engine" with worse acting.

But, unlike a lot of movies, it doesn't try to disguise itself as art.

[ulysses]

124. I could do a lot with that "piston engine" analogy.

But I won't. :D

[chrisa]

120. Banning it would be stupid, but what should be said is.

It lacks what real sex is: love and being held in somebody you care about's arms. When you take away the emotional aspect, why bother? Maybe I just don't understand the logic.

I also think it's funny that people like to watch nasty guys doing it with women who are obviously, uhm, faking it. Isn't it true that most porn stars are homosexual irl, despite most porn being heterosexual?

[Strong Atheist]

201. Welcome to DU! nt.

[ZombieHorde]

237. Some porn features married couples for the reasons you stated. nt

[krabigirl]

122. it's fine

[EndersDame]

127. I buy porn for my Boy friend

Porn is porn. As a woman I do not feel threatened by it (he is not going to form an emotional or physical relationship with Jenna Jameson)nor do I feel that it exploits women (hell i have some friends who post risque photos of themselves for fun.) And overall I think that if men dont watch porn they are probably doing freakier stuff to "release".

[RiverStone]

164. My GF does the same --- and even takes the lead sometimes

Oh, and she does spice things up quite well! :)

Gawd, it's healthy!!!!

[Strong Atheist]

202. Welcome to DU! Almost ALL guys I have known have had/do have

a porn collection. I really have to wonder about the ones who don't. Sort of like all those far right fundamentalists who rail against sex, and then ALWAYS end up in sex scandals...

[Mari333]

128. There is no "I think its silly but should be legal" category...:)

[deaniac21]

130. This poll should be dedicated to all the porn actresses who

caught HIV, died from drug overdose and committed suicide.

[NaturalHigh]

134. You certainly have your talking points down.

Is that you, Shelley Lubben?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

189. How about all the actors who have done the same?

.......because if you look at the list, there are more males, specifically gay porn actors, who have died as a result of those things....

http://www.rame.net/faq/deadporn/

[NaturalHigh]

191. Yeah, but that doesn't fit with the talking points.

[deaniac21]

219. men don't count

[U4ikLefty]

131. I believe Chavez is responsible for the U.S. porn industry. n/t

[Deja Q]

132. Aren't most forms of porn legal already?

[cherish44]

133. I think it's stupid

But then I'm a woman and I already know if I'm gonna get laid any given day. (oh what power we girls have!)
I also think NASCAR is stupid for what it's worth.

[NaturalHigh]

135. I'm actually surprised the "should not be legal" vote is so low.

[odinsgirl]

136. lol. *I* think

that it's a sad statement of our society that so many people have to watch someone else having sex to get "in the mood" or get off...if you know what you're doing, you don't need external stimulation. Your own brain is your largest sex organ...sex takes place in the mind ;)

[ZombieHorde]

238. Then there is no need for a partner, or for any self touching. nt

[bridgit]

137. Too expensive

[Two Americas]

143. what I think

I think the country is facing an emergency, and for some reason some here are desperately trying to distract us any way they can. Smoking, octuplets, PETA, porn - it goes on and on.

I suppose if we are all in an uproar and arguing about things like this, that will prevent any serious discussions that could lead to consensus and solidarity. Divide and conquer.

I know, we can chew gum and save the country at the same time. No question about that. But why, when the country is in danger would insist that we discuss chewing gum?

[LoZoccolo]

144. Why R U on the Internet?

Reading my thread?

[Two Americas]

146. because

I ran out of chewing gum.

How about you?

[Scout]

148. the vast majority of the porn i've seen is stupid and boring....

20 minutes of her sucking him off, he comes all over her, beats her face with his cock, then maybe gives her face for about 30 seconds which gives her a screaming orgasm, then he fucks her up the ass....


yadda yadda blah blah ... boring, and most of the actors are ugly.

[ZombieHorde]

239. That sounds really bad.

[lightningandsnow]

149. I have an issue with some of the depictions in mainstream porn.

BUT that is no reason to keep it illegal. Yes, there is a lot of crap out there - not only sexist but racist as well - but free speech doesn't only apply to speech you like. I might find it offensive, there may be stuff that's not my flavor, but other people have a right to look at it.

Also, not all porn is the big fake boobs, blonde hair, and cliche stuff you see in the mainstream. There's a lot of other stuff out there - couples porn, feminist porn, femdom porn, and other stuff - that's different. There's even a Feminist Porn Awards every year in Toronto. (http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/410064) One of my friends helped establish it, and I know another woman who won an award for a short she created about what it's like to be a woman with disabilities, one who people often assume is asexual. Some of this stuff isn't just titillating - it's important.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

188. Yeah, the depictions are ridiculous!

The cable guy has NEVER come over and screwed my girlfriend!

[Warren DeMontague]

209. I had a job delivering pizzas when I was younger...

and I swear only once did some lady answer the door in lingerie--- and she looked like F. Murray Abraham in drag.

[seabeyond]

211. ups guy came knocking at my door everytime i stepped out of shower

or pest guy or delivery guy....

was thrilled when ups guy was replaced with ups girl.

pizza delivery it is known you are coming.

[Warren DeMontague]

212. The UPS guy does that to me, too.

So I can't imagine it's deliberate.

Just one of them coincidences, I guess.

[seabeyond]

213. lol, i always thought so.

i was in dry cleaning business and our guy that delivered in morning would say how he would hit a house and the woman always naked (in a robe, a guy thing). he swore she was coming onto him

couldnt be he always delivered at same time which went with her routine of when she took a shower, lol

[Withywindle]

246. I've paid for so many pizzas while wearing lingerie.

Never even got a discount, much less laid. :(

[ZombieHorde]

240. The rest of us have...

[sakabatou]

159. The Internet is for Porn

[Deja Q]

160. Until a real person wants a life-affirming, life-long relationship, porn* is satisfactory for me.

:shrug:


* in moderation

[lightningandsnow]

166. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiFD6EFVsTg

[sakabatou]

177. I think this one's better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLavzoyexjU

[Strong Atheist]

207. Or:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645

[Qanisqineq]

162. That's a tough one for me to answer

I used to watch porn myself sometimes. I did enjoy it, in small doses. My husband became addicted to online porn and ended up blowing tons of money on it and then got into chat rooms and web cams with other women and that led to physical affairs. Now I can't tolerate the stuff.

I can't answer it because of my own recent experiences with it. If I had to pick an answer, I'd say morally objectionable but still legal.

[defendandprotect]

167. HOWEVER, we should continue to debate/discuss this abuse of females . . .

in porn which is basically right wing propaganda saturating the internet and

we should also keep asking why so many males need to dominate females and see

females debased in order have an orgasm?

Let's keep discussing this at DU -- !!!

[LoZoccolo]

182. You should start some threads on that, for discussion.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, but I think it'd get lost in this particular thread because there's so much going on in it. If you started some of your own threads on it I think it would be some interesting discussion. If you think we should be discussing that here, I say go for it.

[defendandprotect]

217. Porn does turn up as a regular subject here . . .

I do think the way to defeat it is thru discussion ...

With the rise of the right, of course, we see deteriorating conditions for

females all over the world -- including with increased sexual trafficking of women

and children. Males, as well. These perversions rise with the right and the need

for domination. I think we're a bit too busy right now with all the issues we need

to overturn to give full attention to this subject, but will keep it in mind for some

quieter time!

[LiberalPersona]

173. Porn

is a huge part of our economy and it plays a huge part in the progress of electronic media technology that most people use in their everyday life now. I don't want to even think of what would happen if it became illegal. It would severely damage the economy in more ways than people realize.

[NYC_SKP]

180. I know someone who thinks it's wrong even to ask!

Which is kinda disturbing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5020743

:shrug:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

187. Where is choice "D"?

"What, this bullshit again!!??"

[kenny blankenship]

190. I like being with porn but it's always pressing me for a commitment.

Isn't 24 hrs a day enough - why must we say today, tomorrow, and forever? And how can porn be truly happy knowing the depth my involvement with it might be in part the result of its pleading and armtwisting? Is that the sort of relationship anyone should even consider committing to?

[eridani]

195. If I like it, it's erotica

IF you like it, it's porn
If they like it, it's disgusting filth.

[Strong Atheist]

196. !

:spray:

:rofl:

:yourock:

[CRF450]

197. In the end, we're all horny bastards.

Never a day goes by without thinking of sex 50 times a day.

[B Calm]

203. If I had a head of hair, I'd be a porn star!

[Skittles]

221. what's wrong with bald men?

I think my bald man is very sexy INDEED

[blogslut]

204. I think Oasis is an average band

and they will be forgotten in time.

[Warren DeMontague]

223. Who?

:rofl:

[raventattoo]

208. Why get an STD?

When you can let someone else do it for you?

(Apologies if that has already been posted)

Seriously though, I LOVE PORN!

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[Froward69]

210. when you are boored

porn will guarantee a service call at the exact moment you wish to be left alone.

[B Calm]

214. War movies are more respectable!

[spookybutt]

216. I don't think it's immoral, in the same way that lying is immoral...

I think it degrades our consciousness; gets us into animal consciousness.

Think of it this way: why do you need something to get sexually aroused? If you don't feel in the mood, it means you don't need a sexual release at that moment. Same with hunger. Why use something to make you feel what you don't actually feel? Sometimes the body needs to avoid food. Sometimes it needs to abstain from sex.

[Warren DeMontague]

218. Spookybutt?

We hardly knew ye.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=236464

[Withywindle]

247. I can assure you: I don't need anything to get me into animal consciousness.

I AM an animal, why would I need it? Even my thoughts about God are part of "animal consciousness," duh. (I think my ideas about God are probably inferior to those of my cat, who contemplates Bast with a purity of meditation I could never aspire to.)

But being turned on is fun. Wanking is fun. Fucking is fun. Why not enjoy it to the fullest?

[ecstatic]

220. wtf? I've don't recall seeing a poll here with that many votes....

[Quixote1818]

231. Precisely why Republicans were able to get traction with a stupid blow job

Even Democrats home in on sexy threads.

[Quixote1818]

228. I only like women in my porn.

:evilgrin:

[ZombieHorde]

242. Porn objectifies poop eating tentacle monsters. (if its good) nt

[Kablooie]

243. Porn reminds me of my long gone, lazy days inside the womb.

All I really wanted to do was float around and drink blood through my stomach.

[Eric Condon]

249. Here's something else to consider

Assuming we're talking exclusively about porn featuring consenting adults (since any other kind would inherently be morally objectionable): try replacing "porn" in the OP question with any other consensual sexual act. How is this question really any different from asking "What do you think of oral sex?" or "What do you think of same-sex relations?" and accordingly providing the same answers to choose from?

I'm asking this of the "should be banned" crowd, which thankfully seems pretty small: if you "ban" porn, isn't that a slippery slope? And wouldn't making porn illegal just create one more victimless crime for the prison-industrial complex in which our civilization is already so mired?

[ConsAreLiars]

250. Wow! 248 replies and absolutely zero people regarded your post as worth recommending!!!

You must be terribly proud! This must be your greatest accomplishment ever! You've turned meaningless blather and pointless noise into an art form! Excellent work!

[NikRik]

258. To each their own !

As long as ones choices of what they enjoy does not hurt another, there is no reason legally or otherwise for it to fall under the decision of the law . If fact the only part the law should take part in this is to protect someones right to do as they chose and protect their right of freedom in a free country !
NikRik

[SidDithers]

259. "Thank You For The Porn"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90PwFYUjsYA

From Sean Cullen, formerly of Corky and the Juice Pigs.

Sid

[derby378]

260. It's complicated

There are some forms of porn that are demeaning, morally offensive, and/or just plain gross. On the other hand, there are some forms of porn that celebrate the beauty, dynamism, and passion of human sexuality in all its form and splendor.

I say keep it legal, but keep it totally consensual and disease-free. Regular health screenings, fair labor standards for actors and crew alike, etc. And no emotional blackmail or pressure on any of the actors, either - it's her body and her choice.

[Jack Sprat]

281. Porn is not sexy.

It is redundant, boring, degrading and non-personal. I'm referring to porn films with no plot and mindless sex acts absent of passion or feeling. That is how I see porn. Now, if you could produce a film with artful passion that is not degrading, that would not be my definition of porn. Sex is beautiful, but porn is ugly.

[annabanana]

283. I rarely think about it at all.. . .but

"each to his own said the old lady as she kissed the cow"

(grandannabanana)

[Touchdown]

286. There should be a law!

... that in a group sex scene with more than 7 participants, at least 4 of them must be human!!!!!:grr: