"You Try to Live on 500K in This Town"

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/fashion/08halfmill.html

February 8, 2009
You Try to Live on 500K in This Town
By ALLEN SALKIN

...

Five hundred thousand dollars — the amount President Obama wants to set as the top pay for banking executives whose firms accept government bailout money — seems like a lot, and it is a lot. To many people in many places, it is a princely sum to live on. But in the neighborhoods of New York City and its suburban enclaves where successful bankers live, half a million a year can go very fast.

“As hard as it is to believe, bankers who are living on the Upper East Side making $2 or $3 million a year have set up a life for themselves in which they are also at zero at the end of the year with credit cards and mortgage bills that are inescapable,” said Holly Peterson, the author of an Upper East Side novel of manners, “The Manny,” and the daughter of Peter G. Peterson, a founder of the equity firm the Blackstone Group. “Five hundred thousand dollars means taking their kids out of private school and selling their home in a fire sale.”

Sure, the solution may seem simple: move to Brooklyn or Hoboken, put the children in public schools and buy a MetroCard. But more than a few of the New York-based financial executives who would have their pay limited are men (and they are almost invariably men) whose identities are entwined with living a certain way in a certain neighborhood west of Third Avenue: a life of private schools, summer houses and charity galas that only a seven-figure income can stretch to cover.

Few are playing sad cellos over the fate of such folk, especially since the collapse of the institutions they run has yielded untold financial pain. But in New York, where a new study from the Center for an Urban Future, a nonprofit research group in Manhattan, estimates it takes $123,322 to enjoy the same middle-class life as someone earning $50,000 in Houston, extricating oneself from steep bills can be difficult.

...

A problem I'm having now is that I'm having real difficulty telling if articles like this are being satirical or not. When you have guys doing million dollar office decorations and doing golf junkets and awarding themselves ten million dollar bonuses with government bailout money, you clearly have a whole class of people who have run amok and have been years if not generations without any kind of accountability to the society at large, or anyone, really, so the concept is alien to them, as is shame.

We seem to be approaching some kind of Marie Antoinette moment in this country. One of these other articles about the CEO salary cap had some guy referring to himself as a "HENRY" (High Earner Not Rich YET), completely without irony or sarcasm, never considering that someone might want to tattoo that word onto his forehead in his own blood. Sheesh.

[babylonsister]

1. It's chump change, and it will hurt. I say good. nt

[roguevalley]

84. I hear that some rents in NYC are 2500 a month. I would need

cardiac resusitation if I had to pay that. :)

[JackRiddler]

90. Actually, going by the figures said to be typical by NYT...

These people are paying $16 K a month for their housing -- $96 K annually in mortgage for some Park Ave. condo, plus $96 K in maintenance fees ($8 K a month).

So: Fuck'em.

$2500 is a typical rent for a real apartment in Manhattan (2-3 BR) or for, say, a house in Bklyn or Qns (rent or mortgage).

$4000, or half of the supposed maintenance fee specified in the NYT article, gets you a palace in Bklyn, and after taxes you'd have like $200,000 left over on the year. So these numbers are ridiculous.

So, really: Fuck'em. Throw them out of work and confiscate their accounts, as you would with suspected gangsters pending a RICO case, which is more than appropriate here given the evidence of fraud. Then they might actually feel it.

Otherwise, they're having a good laugh at this ridiculous article, knowing that any salary caps will be in the seven figures and have so many loopholes that they'll still make off like bandits.

[nichomachus]

98. Yeah -- in the lower-priced apartments

$2,500 will get you a closet in Manhattan -- and you might have to share it.

A studio in the Village, Soho or Tribeca can run you $5,000 and up.

[Stevenmarc]

113. These people aren't renting

And even if they paid for their co-op in cash and don't carry a mortgage the monthly maintenance for an apartment that a person in that income level would own is easily $5,000 - $10,000 a month. A good private school in Manhattan is easily $30,000+ a year per kid.

That said I'm not exactly crying for them but if I was in their position I would look at this as an opportunity to prove you are really worth the salary. The 500,000 cap does not include stock compensation but the catch is that you need to pay the government back before you can cash in on that stock, so get your company out of the hole and you get a nice fat payday, that's pretty damn fair.

[leftstreet]

2. HENRYs

I hadn't heard that one before.

My heart bleeds.

:eyes:

[backscatter712]

3. Cry me a river...

:nopity:

[Cant trust em]

4. How do people say this shit with a straight face?

I mean, seriously.

[MADem]

5. Maybe dey need to move to New Joisey. NT

[Dr.Phool]

27. Or sleep on a steam grate in front of their foreclosed penthouse.

[arcadian]

76. Where is that kitty taking that red X?

He must have a pile of them in a stash somewhere.

[notesdev]

6. My view is pretty simple

if you can't make it on under $200k/year, you have a problem. If you can't make it on under $500k/year, you are everybody's problem.

[4_TN_TITANS]

63. Excellent choice of words...

With big rewards should come big risks and consequences. Everyone suffering from their incompetent leadership has to undergo life-altering changes, welcome to our America asshats.

[Flying Dream Blues]

97. Ohh, good one! And true, too. nt

[sandnsea]

7. Oooh, ooh, I'll Try! Pick Me!

I will even suffer the indignities of a lower standard of living (ha) and rent that Chrysler Sebring I've been wanting for 10 years!

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Me Too

I'll live in the burbs and commute each day for a half-mil. And i know i couldn't screw up any worse than these buffoons.
GAC

[fishwax]

89. yeah, I'll give it a shot

it'd be tough, of course, but I'm willing to give it a shot :)

[The Traveler]

8. If "Henry" can find someone else

to pay him more than $500K, by all means he should take the job if he is so inclined.

But if the company Henry helped run into the ground needs taxpayer dollars to survive, Henry needs to either quit whining and tighten his belt or get another job. It is a free country and he is as free as any recently shafted auto-worker to change his employment at will.

Trav

[ddeclue]

9. Oh Booo fucking hooo!!

:argh:

[krispos42]

10. MOVE!

Fuckin' twits.

Move someplace close by a fuckin' trainyard and be GRATEFUL you weren't kicked out of your foreclosed home and are living in your Mercedes SUV.


There are ***plenty*** of nice communities that have very good public schools that are an hour away or less from Manhattan. MY PARENTS LIVE IN ONE.

My parents have a nice 5 bedroom, 2-bath ranch that they can easily afford... and they make MAYBE, in a good year, with overtime from my dad's GOOD UNION JOB, a quarter of what Obama's proposed salary cap is.



These people are fucking clueless. Clueless. CLUELESS!!!

I'm down to a fucking 32-hour workweek. THIRTY-TWO FUCKING HOURS. That's a 20% pay cut added to a 5% rent INCREASE, a 10% health-insurance INCREASE, and 2 goddamn years WITHOUT A PAY RAISE, which means I'm effectively getting an 8% PAY CUT!


These fucking assholes!!!


I'M moving! I'm going to be 30 miles from work! I used to be ¾ of a mile from work. I'm moving in with a co-worker because I can't afford my rent on a 32-hour workweek. Hell, I could barely afford it on a 40-hour workweek! So now I'm going to be sharing a room with my 4-year-old son... again... and they have the nerve to COMPLAIN?


I want to take a 100-pound wheel of cheddar, yell "You want some CHEESE with that WHINE?" and then drop it on their arrogant goddamn heads!

[hobbit709]

25. This will cure that whiner's problem.

My wife and I had a combined income of $32K last year.

[JVS]

39. or better yet, JUMP!

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. !

[Marr]

11. For years, I've heard right wingers say if you don't think you're paid enough, you should quit.

These men should quit if they think they aren't being paid what they're worth.

If indeed they are so scary talented that they're worth million dollar bonuses just to keep them on the payrolls, then they should just quit and get jobs with some other company. That's the all-mighty market in action. I mean... right?

[Kool Kitty]

15. "...if you don't think you're getting paid enough, you should quit."

Maybe someone should repeat this to all our Senators and Representatives when they want to vote themselves a raise. Most of us would just like one job that would pay decently, a living wage.

[glowing]

12. Perhaps their little lifestyle change will make it possible for other's to actually live.

There outpriced neighborhoods and private schools do more harm to America than anything. If they had to send their children to public schools and live next to an electrician, perhaps we would have better schools and less sense of entitlement.

[fortyfeetunder]

13. This sob story will not sell to the average American

The average CEO salary is more than a hundred times their average employee. Not to mention the numerous individuals who might have been duped by these banks and are losing their homes and/or investments.

If this article has a shred of truth, then I would beseech these suffering CEO's to find sympathy in the dictionary between the words "sorry" and "too bad".

[Harry Monroe]

41. Actually if they're looking for sympathy

They should look in the dictionary between "shit" and "syphilis".

[Horse with no Name]

14. Then THEY can do like the rest of us are forced to do

live within their means--even when their means is significantly impacted.
There is NOTHING that I have done personally to affect THEIR quality of life. I have gone to work, done my job, paid my bills, raised my family, etc.
BUT THEIR ACTIONS have affected my family because my taxes will be raised to pay for their bailout, I have lost my employer contribution to my 401k, getting a necessary loan is more difficult, and my 401k has lost its value.
So, I find it "quite" difficult to feel pity for a group of people who STILL make significantly more than I do and STILL have THEIR jobs (when many people lost their jobs due to THEIR actions). I am QUITE sure that you would find someone that was laid off that would be glad to share in what THEY consider a paltry salary.
Let THEM live on that paltry half million while THEIR victims ravage through their savings, unemployment or other entitlement programs that they are LUCKY enough to get.
Let THEM move to smaller homes while THEIR victims live in the street and homeless shelters.
Let THEIR kids go to public schools and watch the kids of THEIR victims receive free lunches.

I'm sorry. I have no pity for these parasites. The fact that THEY have still have jobs is an absolute insult to anyone who was affected by THEIR mismanagement and poor job performance.

[EraOfResponsibility]

17. Right on!

the absurdity of that statement "you try living on 500K" is so insulting I can hardly stand it.

[anonymous171]

16. I would try. nt

[Birthmark]

18. Can we allow them $1000 extra...

...to take a class on "how to commute."

Fuck those people. If they can't get by on $500k, let 'em quit. It's not like we'll miss the asshats that trashed the world economy.

[enuegii]

19. These people need a reality check...

let them take an entry-level factory job (if the can find one), trash the most expensive machine in the place, and then go to the boss and bitch about their pay.
The word 'epiphany' comes to mind.

[renate]

20. because of these people, I have spent precisely $3 frivolously in the past 3 months

I bought a plastic water glass at Target. It's got a pretty pattern on it, and I needed a bigger glass for my bedside table.

We don't eat out, we haven't bought school clothes for the kids, we've cut back on groceries... that $3 has been literally been the extent of our unnecessary spending.

It actually hasn't been all that painful spending money on only the essentials; we're fortunate in that we have some savings to dig into to pay the mortage, buy groceries, and pay for health insurance. So I'm really not feeling sorry for us. I'm just kind of saying that two vacations a year, private school, a second home, a personal trainer... these aren't essentials. So while I don't really miss having discretionary income (although some income would be nice :) ), I'm not really persuaded by this article.

[JVS]

21. I smell a reality show. Select several people, give them $500K and show how they live it up.

[ddeclue]

23. This week on Job Swap USA....

A Wall Street Broker switches places with a retail clerk at a Macy's in Cleveland.

A Registered Nurse in Omaha switches places with a commodities broker...

and in our final segment a police officer in Little Rock switches places with a bond trader from Connecticut.

As always they must do the jobs of their counterparts, work the same hours and of course they will receive the other guys paycheck.

:rofl:

[Baikonour]

22. 500,000 is MORE than enough to live in Manhattan.

God forbid you may need to give up on fine dining, or the ridiculously expensive designer clothes.

Allen Salkin is an ass. How hilarious, too, that this is in the FASHION section. As if NYC fashion isn't an overbloated money-sucking industry.

[KittyWampus]

79. what they're really is saying-it's not enough to live in Manhattan & have a house in the Hamptons

[HillbillyBob]

24. If it ain't enough bite me! We manage to live on

45,000 and a good portion of that goes to help mum in law stay afloat.
I don't know how folks with 4 kids and less income manage. We are trying to catch up from 4 years of spotty employment, me being sick, partners meds, car payments cause the old car died, lights, food, farm equipment.....

[Crunchy Frog]

26. Is anyone forcing them to accept government bailout money?

I should think they would be free to continue in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed, just as long as they don't suck on the government teat. :shrug:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomp]

48. hard to argue with. nt

[malletgirl02]

73. Interersting

You should really make this an OP.

[rcrush]

29. "have set up a life for themselves in which they are also at zero at the end of the year "

“As hard as it is to believe, bankers who are living on the Upper East Side making $2 or $3 million a year have set up a life for themselves in which they are also at zero at the end of the year with credit cards and mortgage bills that are inescapable,” said Holly Peterson, the author of an Upper East Side novel of manners, “The Manny,” and the daughter of Peter G. Peterson, a founder of the equity firm the Blackstone Group. “Five hundred thousand dollars means taking their kids out of private school and selling their home in a fire sale.”


So these rich motherfuckers who make millions of dollars of year cant even keep their OWN money? If thats how they managed to live while making millions then they deserve to have to lose their little luxuries. They'll have to settle for living at 5x what the middle class live on in New York (according to that article).

[caraher]

74. Exactly

Key words: "set up a life for themselves"

Fact is, the house of cards they built has collapsed and crushed a lot more, better people than them. If they are taking our money to patch it together, that's a new reality. They can opt out and see if there is a genuine market that values their alleged talents at the level that supports those lives. Or they can accept the help, suck it up and realize that they made this bed and should be grateful that they can lie in it with a full stomach, under a sound roof, and not in a prison cell.

[tbyg52]

110. Really.

If, at what they've been making, they don't have *lots* of savings to fall back on, I wonder if they have any business running a business bigger than a McDonald's franchise.

[Ganja Ninja]

30. So quit and find another job that pays more than $500,000.

Lotsa luck assholes!

[Berry Cool]

31. We're supposed to believe it would be more painful for them to cut back than for us to do so.

Somehow, it's OK if those of us to whom making anywhere near $500K is a far-off dream have to learn to cut back and live with less. But that THEY should have to do so...heaven forfend!

I can almost hear the excuses: "But...but...you're not as many generations away from poverty as I am. You and your parents and grandparents KNEW what it was like to have to make do or do without. Muffy and I just haven't a clue. And the children?!? What will we tell them???"

My heart just bleeds for them.

"Get used to it, pal."

[no_hypocrisy]

33. Was that a shout-out from the slums of Franklin Lakes, New Jersey?

:sarcasm:

[Optical.Catalyst]

34. They may need to save money by drinking Boone's Farm instead of Talbott's

A couple of bottles of Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill would work just as well as Talbott Sleepy Hollow Vineyard Chardonnay 2005.

They might even have to smoke Mustang 205 cigarettes too.

[Cirque du So-What]

35. Sheesh! Took long enough to get a 5th rec!

Call me a class warrior if you must; I really don't mind. To my way of thinking, this overprivileged class has already thrown down the gauntlet, so let the madness begin!

[Trekologer]

49. I don't see this as class warfare

I see it as putting a stop to rewarding failure. These executives were leading their respective companies as they failed. The companies that took bailout money failed, pure and simple. And they expect to get a high salary and a bonus for FAILURE? Unfortunately it seems like the answer to that is a yes. Business in America has come to a point that no matter how bad the executives do, they always get paid. And after they are given the boot, they hand in another cushy job. Look at Carley Fiorina: she ran HP (and Compaq) into the ground and was let go. Then she landed as one of McCain's top economic advisors. I just wish that someone in the media had asked her in an interview, "Why should we trust what you say? The Board of HP didn't..."

To put this into perspective, if the captain of the Titanic had made it back to shore, do you think his boss would have said, "Well, you ran the ship into an iceberg, sunk it, and killed half the passengers. But you were making good time and, well, you're a Captain after all. So here's a big bonus. Don't worry, the insurance company paid for the boat."

[Adsos Letter]

80. Beautifully expressed...and dead on!

[calimary]

82. EXCELLENT point. Since when do we reward or respect failure?

Since republi-CONS got a taste for power maybe? That carly fiorina point has always stuck with me. She's a failed CEO, and yet she's held up as a noted economic authority? On what? MORE failure?

And why didn't anybody in the media ask about that?

[BlooInBloo]

36. Was a great article.

[LaurenG]

37. Well the entitled attitude is pretty funny if not sad

Their survival skills are in need of honing. How about living on less than 70,000 like the majority of the nation. When 1/2 million isn't enough I doubt anything is.

[rateyes]

38. If they have to move out and cut their lifestyle, then

perhaps they'll get a TINY tastes of what's going on with the people they have screwed over.

:nopity:

[readmoreoften]

40. Hey, these fuckers opposed me when I was on strike and I made 19,000K a year.

And they said my package was generous.

Time to learn the phrase "commute" muthafuckas...

[Harry Monroe]

44. If you've got a "generous package"

May I suggest work in the porn industry??

:rofl:

[Vinca]

42. I guess they'll just have to change their lifestyles like the rest of us. nt

[stray cat]

43. I would love the opportunity - I make significantly less in NY. I would love 500K for a change

[LisaL]

45. O'key. Somebody give me the money and I will try.

[sweetpotato]

46. Maybe the cost of living is artifically inflated by all those excessive salaries

Did anyone ever think like this?

If it takes over half a million dollars a year to live somewhere, then that somewhere is artificially expensive. How the heck will the people who clean the toilets afford to live there?

[malletgirl02]

67. I was thinking the same thing

These guys are the reason New York is so expensive.

[mimitabby]

93. the toilet cleaners

have a 1.5 hour commute on the subways and trains each day, are you kidding?

[underpants]

47. "You Try to run a company with THIS brain"

[ejpoeta]

50. i'd be happy to live on $500k. hell, i'd take half that.

and i bet there are plenty of people in NYC living on less than that. sure, they do not live in ritzy apartments and drive fancy cars. probably don't have vacation homes and such, but people can and DO live on a lot less than $500k a year.

[EstimatedProphet]

51. Hey fuckers, try to live in NYC on minimum wage!

What a bunch of assholes.

[Earth_First]

52. Here's an idea...

We'll switch positions for one year.

You and your family can come live on our $64,000/yr. salaries and work as a landscape design installer (find out what REAL work is all about)...

...while my famliy and I will live on YOUR salary and pretend to make decisions based on sound financial advice at YOUR job, living on your *ahem* measly $500,000/yr. salary.

P.s. That $64,000/yr salary is COMBINED, not each.

Now piss off!

[salguine]

53. I know how to settle this issue, but good. We take each of these CEOs that claim

$500,000 "isn't enough", and we start stuffing $1 bills up his ass. If he can take 500,000 of them before hollering "uncle", then he gets to have any salary he wants. If, however, he yells to stop at any point before that, then the number of dollar bills he has successfully "received" becomes his annual salary. So he has an incentive to show just how badly he wants it. Ya gotta want it!

[Jim__]

54. As to your Marie Antoinette moment ...

... I think we've already had it: George Will: Let them eat McDonald's

[Solly Mack]

56. "whose identities are entwined with living a certain way "

...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

57. How about we all send them to live in the Houston Astrodome?

Then Barbara Bush can go visit them every day.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

58. If by Marie Antionette moment you mean

populist revolt, it will never happen as long as people can be distracted by TV and get cheap fast food. The Romans weren't the only ones who understood the concept of "bread and circuses".

[Tommy_Carcetti]

59. The horrors! The horrors!

Flying coach! Shopping at (gasp!) Target! Fancy dining at....Applebees! Driving yourself.....pumping your own gas.....in a mid-sized non-luxury sedan! Living in a two bathroom house!

Wait, what am I talking about? Even people who earn "only" $500,000 don't have to live in such squalor!

[Mari333]

60. move to michigan!

for 500,000 you can retire and live like the King of the World.!

[Ediacara]

61. Dude, if you drove a bank into the ground you deserve to live in New Jersey

(with apologies to everyone I know from NJ, you're all awesome).

Nanny: unnecessary.
Private School: unnecessary.
House in the Hamptons: UNNECESSARY.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

106. Yeah, NJ really sucks.

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1082170419031860892qvDCON

[Kansas Wyatt]

62. If they really believe that, then why aren't they paying their employees...

Above $500,000? Are they admitting that their employees cannot survive on less than $500,000?

Ben Stein actually said something on CNN that was true... These greedy CEO bastards are not going to give up their life of luxury, without fighting it every step of the way and that they feel they have earned it, until someone forces them to give it up.

[EnviroBat]

64. Fuck them!

There isn't a day that goes by I see some smug cock-sucker in a Bently driving to some McMansion after a "hard day of shitty to non-existent decision making", that I don't want to drag that fucker out of the car by his fucking head and put my foot in his ass. These fucking pricks are going to learn some humility, or it's going to start being beaten into them.

[AngryAmish]

65. You people seem to forget that bankers are humans, with the brains that all humans have

We are social animals. We like to live in packs. We develop hierarchies in the packs. Millions of years of evolution have given us these brains and the wants/desires that come with these brains.

People are obsessed with status. More status = more opportunities to breed. So we like to look and judge high status persons (look at the magazines in the grocery aisle.)

So, if one is making $5 per hour and everyone else is making the same, then we are ok. But if we are making $5 and the neighbors/friends/family make $7, then one feels less valued/have a lower stauts. It makes our brains sad.

So bankers are the same. If they think neighbors are making more then them they get sad.

[PVnRT]

66. Tough shit for them

[Romulox]

70. Right. And evolution has imbued me with an instinct not to pay for bankers' luxurious lifestyles.

:silly: :hi:

[Ikonoklast]

88. And as members of a social system that rewards winners,

and leaves the losers to be eaten by hyenas, these parasites should keep a keen ear out for the howling pack that is one step closer to them every day.

[JackRiddler]

91. Their neighbors ARE making $5/hour!

[DCKit]

68. Wow, all these replies to the OP, and not a single fat cat apologist yet.

WTF are the lobbying firms doing with all that Wall St. and the Banker money? Hard (impossible?) to believe they've given up already. Is there another PR fire keeping them busy? Are they burning up the phone lines to DC hoping to get a better deal? Of course they are.

K&R from the bottom of my bleeding heart.

[earth mom]

69. I can smell the bullshit all the way here on the West Coast.

:puke:

:nopity:

[Still Sensible]

71. Then it's simple dickwad, get your company fixed

and pay back the taxpayers the money you are using... then go do what the fuck you want. Until that time, this is the deal.... STFU. What is so hard for you idiots to understand? We're supposed to feel sorry for you because you ran your company into the ditch while you were enjoying "lifestyles of the rich and famous"? You asked to get bailed out, live with the terms or get the hell out of the way!

[NC_Nurse]

72. Oh fuckin' well.

Maybe real estate in Manhattan will adjust like it is in most other places. Why should we hold up their house of cards?
I'm having a big problem not despising these idiots. It's their fault we're in this mess. Geez. Talk about entitlement.

[malletgirl02]

75. I agree

These guys are the reason real estate cost so much in Manhattan. They are lucky they have job, because normally when a company fails, there is no bailout. Also they are much better off then many of their own employees whom they laid off.

[Initech]

77. If you cant live on $500K a year, go fuck yourself.

Sorry but I have no sympathy for these executives. :nopity:

Every time I see a story like this it makes me want to puke. :puke:

[Brazenly Liberal]

78. I see. So then their file clerks, mailroom people, secretaries, cleaning people

etc are all making $500K?

No?

Well then, Holly sweetie, I suggest you find out how and where they live and learn something from it. If you can't afford that upper east side pied-a-terre on $500k, you just might have to look in another neighborhood. I understand there are some vacancies in the Bronx.

[Blue_Tires]

81. ugh...these people really aren't from this planet, are they?

my only consolation from a full-on national economic collapse is that these are the types who will die first because they know shit about survival skills

[jgraz]

83. Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

Just askin...

[JackRiddler]

85. How about zero - because a salary cap is not enough of a punishment...

for the people who for reasons of greed and opportunism wittingly caused or contributed to the financial disaster.

TARP shouldn't exist, it's a trillion-dollar rip off. But if any bailout is conferred, then the minimum condition should be an immediate decapitation of the management.

Metaphorically speaking, of course. ;)

Not only shouldn't these low-lifes, who are in a business far less respectable than drug dealing or pornography, get to whine about a pay-cut. In fact, they should be thrown out of their offices and have all compensation suspended and their assets frozen, pending the outcome of a criminal investigation. Exactly as would be done with terrorist or mafia organizations. Because that is what they are.

The entire top level of the "financial sector" needs to be understood as the Ponzi scheme it was and remains. The activities of a Madoff, who was not some random trader but the chair of the NASDAQ, need to be understood as the paradigm, and not in any way an abberation. This is what the top Wall Street banks did, within a culture that celebrated greed, plunder, crime and deception.

As for that NYT article, I read it last night basically yelling "Fuck you!" at every sentence. What a joke. Indeed, let them sell the Park Avenue unit for zero dollars if there's no buyer, and move to Brooklyn (where you can live in truly royal conditions for half of the supposed condo maintenance fees of $8000 a month, as mentioned in the NYT article). Send the children to a public school, get a fucking Metro Card, and fuck you anyway. It's still a life of wealth and privilege, and countless times better than what these animals wittingly did to thousands of mortgage holders.

[Deja Q]

86. I know people trying to live on $30k and these people whine about $500k?!

Rotten. Just rotten.

[Initech]

87. I make $14 / hr BEFORE taxes. And these dipshits complain about $500k?

Give me a fuckin break!!! :nopity:

[EraOfResponsibility]

92. This is why the rest of the world hates us

seriously.

[sutz12]

94. You have me confused with somebody that gives a shit.

Deal with it.

[Raineyb]

95. Boo hoo!

:nopity:

I'd love to get 500,000. I was making a tenth of that when I had a job and unemployment doesn't even match what I was making so they can kiss my ass with their whining.

Regards

[Stinky The Clown]

96. Crazy as it seems, that's probably true .....

... not that I can muster any real sympathy, but I can understand it. If you set yourself up with debt that can be handled comfortably on .... I dunno ..... $2M a year, and then you only get $500K, you're technically broke. Bankrupt. Hosed.

It is the same as a little guy squeaking by on $20K a year suddenly trying to make it on $5K.

Both are in the same boat. The only difference is the size of the numbers.

Mr. Big Guy might love to sell some shit to get out from under ..... but who would be buying it right now?

No ...... Mr. Big is probably hosed. And in many ways, way worse off than Little Guy.

My feeling, though, why I can sympathize with the little guy and not Mr. Big is that Mr. Big clearly is buying WAAAAAAAAAY more shit than any thousand people have a need for and not saving beans.

[nichomachus]

100. Not really

The guy making $2M has a greater opportunity to build himself a cushion and not live up to or beyond his means. A lot of these multi-millionaire bastard are more over their heads than a lot of people making $20K. At $20K you don't have a lot of wiggle room. At $2M, if you can't miss a paycheck or two and survive, then you are just greedy and stupid.

[Stinky The Clown]

102. Um .......

I think we're saying the same thing .... your 'not really' notwithstanding.

[nichomachus]

103. Well -- you were comparing two things that can't be compared

The guy making $2m and the guy making $20K -- and it's all related to marginal income, the income you have after basic needs are satisfied. Someone at $20K may have no marginal income or negative marginal income. The guy at $2M has about $1,950,000 in marginal income, after he puts a rook over his head and puts food on his family. After that, everything is a luxury.

I see what you're saying, but I think any comparison to a person making $20K was misleading.

[Stinky The Clown]

105. Yanno what ....... ?

I don't even know what marginal income is.

My comment was as superficial as the story ...... which is the level at which most poeple understand that sort of thing.

Not arguin' ...... just sayin' ......

:hi:

[nichomachus]

99. There once was an investment banker who was very very poor.

The whole family was poor. The mother was poor. The father was poor. The children were poor. The butler was poor. The maids were poor. The chauffeur was poor. The governess was poor.

(Apologies to Winston Churchill -- who actually wrote something similar to this as a childhood short story assignment.)

[Incitatus]

101. The mistress was poor too. nt

[nichomachus]

104. Oh no -- she was very very well off.

[librechik]

107. gladly

and I'll show you how to do it too, for nothing.

[The Backlash Cometh]

108. Again. Something they should have thought about in the greedy years.

I don't feel sorry for them. If their kids grow up in public school, maybe they'll skip a generation on that greed gene.

[Wednesdays]

109. OMFG!

"Five hundred thousand dollars means taking their kids out of private school ..."

Y-y-you mean, schooling their kids in a...*gasp*...public school? Someone call somebody...it's the Apocalypse!

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

111. What utter swine these people are.

Time to break out the guillotines again, methinks, and readjust the attitudes of the thieving capitalist class.

[NoSheep]

112. Fuck 'em.

[Usrename]

114. The destruction of satire, the end of irony.

I know.

The prophet Orwell warned about this.

[Retrograde]

115. $70-125K for a driver? In Manhattan?

The subway goes just about everywhere: buy a Metrocard.

I read the article, and I can find plenty of places to cut. For example, I can wear an outfit more than once, saving $20K a pop. Since I don't have kids I save over $70K there. Aside from housing (and who's responsible for driving that up in the first place?) it's possible to live frugally in Manhattan - especially if you treat your money like you had to work for it.

[JI7]

116. fuck him

[tgnyc]

117. This is some kind of comedy bit, right?

[Blue_Tires]

118. ttt