Giving Too Much Credit To Pilot

[erpowers]

I think the media is making too much of the pilot who landed a plane on the Hudson River. This is a guy who has about 40 years of experience as a pilot. In addition, I believe this guy was trained to perform water landings. I do not see why the media is making so much about this pilot. In my opinion he did his job. He should be congraulated and thanked for doing his job, but he should not be getting so much attention for what happened. So what do others think?

[spanone]

1. america loves a hero and this guy fits all the requirements

[vadawg]

2. i think you are given to much credit for using a keyboard

and you should have it removed from you forthwith.

[cpamomfromtexas]

38. Bravo, you're right. My husband met him last week, and says hes a really nice down to earth guy.

[Raven]

3. We need some heroes The guy did his job . Our last President did not.

[tularetom]

4. I think he feels that way but he understands the need for a hero

He sounded a bit uncomfortable with the whole hero thing on 60 minutes last night so he might agree with you.

To my mind he is a hero.

Your post is very uncool.

[elocs]

20. I agree. Uber-uncool. I know the passengers think he is a hero.

This OP really has no redeeming social value.

[Cha]

53. I wanted to go somewhere else last night

but was sorry I was going to miss 60 Minutes on Sully and the Grammys.

I think the OP is looking for attention.

[JanMichael]

5. Yeah! Hey! I have posted

stupid shit when I have been drinking too! You go dude! What are you into? We like beer, vodka and jack.

[rainy]

6. If my daughter was on that plane I'd be kissing his feet. He is a hero. nt

[ogneopasno]

7. I think it says a lot about people that when someone did his job competently, it was considered

amazing.

[appleannie1]

8. He constantly says without the crew and passengers following direction, the outcome would have been

different. He also adds ferry captains and rescue personnel so everyone is getting a pat on the back for a job well done. It is stories like this that renews my faith in my fellow Americans. I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way.

[ecstatic]

9. The pilot himself actually feels that way... but he said that he thinks

people are latching on to the "hope" aspect of the story. We needed something positive... and it was so close to the big day of Obama being sworn in...so it just added to the magic, IMO.

[ferrous wheel]

10. I'm a professional pilot and I agree with you.

He obviously did his job very well but that is what he's well paid to do. I get chills thinking how different it might have been
if it were at night or with clouds below him. The conditions were as perfect as one could ever ask for in a total power loss situation at low altitude.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. The copilot is said to have quipped that the only way things could have been better were to ........

..... have happened in July.

The pilot tells that story.

I think its funny.

[ferrous wheel]

43. Maybe, but in July there is a -lot- of boat traffic on the Hudson river!

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve plenty of credit (mostly IMO for not making a stupid decision like trying to stretch a glide
back to LGA or TEB) but the landing itself was done exactly the same as any good landing should be: right speed, wings level.
I object to people using the word "miracle" which I don't believe in to begin with and 'hero' is WAY overused.
:-)
edit - I forgot to mention he's a glider pilot..which certainly helped. I fly gliders too and they give you an interesting perspective on unpowered flight.

[Stinky The Clown]

54. I said pretty much the same thing right when it happened ....

..... about the "hero" thing .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4841445

The thing about July was a quip, not intended as a statement of fact.

[MajorChode]

40. There are a few things worth mentioning

First he was very decisive and he quickly figured out what the best option was. A lesser pilot might have tried to make one of the nearby airports which would have likely ended in disaster.

Next, he did a good job of actually performing the water landing. The Airbus in question has engines under the wings so had he been a little off and one of them made contact with the water before the other, disaster could have been the result.

But I agree with you. What he did was not really all that spectacular as far as piloting skills go.

[ferrous wheel]

46. Another thing, being a glider pilot he knows how to keep the wings level

since they just have 1 wheel! :D
It's wonderful aileron practice.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. Your first point can't be stressed enough.

"A lesser pilot might have tried to make one of the nearby airports which would have likely ended in disaster."

More often than not, it's indecisiveness that kills in these types of emergencies.

[Iktomiwicasa]

11. Envious?

Sure, he was trained for an emergency ditching. However, it is a VERY high risk maneuver, and a very high percentage of those attempted have resulted in catastrophe. Capt. Sully did an outstanding job :thumbsup:

[erpowers]

63. No

I am not envious at all.

[Booster]

12. If you don't think this pilot is a hero, just who the Hell would

be in your eyes?

[glarius]

13. Don't you think he is just responding to the media who are relentless in

pursuing him. He seems to be a very modest man who is not looking for glory for himself. I think what he did was quite remarkable, no matter how many years of experience he has had. Also, it seems that the passengers on the downed plane really want to praise him and give him thanks.

[AlCzervik]

14. He strikes me as a humble guy that always gives credit to the crew and passengers.

My Dad's been a pilot for over 40 years as well and he another cool customer as i find many pilots are. Anyhow landing a plane in the Hudson is big news, i have no problem with it being covered.

[JFN1]

15. We need heroes

and short of real ones, we're always happy to invent them. And while I agree the guy should not be fawned over just for doing his job, the better way to see it is he did his job when he could have, facing a true life and death situation, panicked, and ended up killing himself and all of those people, or worse.

[monmouth]

The media actually decides who are our heroes are by their attention span.

If it's a slow news day we got ourselves a hero, if busy, great job, move on.

[Fleshdancer]

16. I'm for whatever story kicks Joe the Plumber or Paris Hilton off the news cycle

We prop up so many useless people in this country so it's refreshing to concentrate of people who have talent and intelligence for a change.

Sure he was trained, but water landings are pretty damn rare and he executed it perfectly. Walking up and down the aisle twice to make sure everyone else was off the plane WAS heroic IMO.

[msongs]

17. the "heroics" were chosing a landing place and getting the plane there intact....

when someone else may have tried to get an airport, thus killing everyone on board and many more on the ground.

surely you jest?

Msongs

[madokie]

18. Hes a real life Hero and nothing less

get over it.

[MrSlayer]

19. You can't give him enough credit.

He performed above and beyond, I wonder how many others would have done as well. And he did it with ice water in his veins. The guy is a hero.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. You're technically correct, even if sort of unfeeling and overanalytical

The pilot is right out of Central Casting.

Check Yeager without the drawl.

Cool and calm and tall and lanky ......

The country has had no good news for months and months apart from what happened on January Twentieth.

People ***want*** to enjoy this.

I am perfectly okay with that.

[catnhatnh]

I'm sure he feels that way himself....

...since in almost any unsuccessful landing he would be among the first to arrive himself...that said it was a masterful performance more worthy of admiration in itself and more so on an evening when all major news outlet lead with the story of how a "hero" (A-Rod????) used steroids.

[EFerrari]

22. Nobody died. He deserves all the credit in the world. n/t

[doc03]

23. I agree he was just doing his job, I'm sure there are

thousands of pilots that would have done the same. America likes the hero worship stuff, a dog barks and wakes the family up and they survive a fire and he is declared a hero.

[Statistical]

28. Statistics would say otherwise....

water landings by heavy aircraft are usually fatal.

The margin for error is very small and it isn't something that can be practiced.

Sure the steps can be practiced but that would be like saying because you have a Drivers license you could win a Nascar race.... it is "just driving" right?

[doc03]

41. He was an excellent pilot and he was probably

more interested in saving his own ass more than anyone else's. He may have been just real lucky. Now if someone enters a burning building and risks his own life for someone else's he is a hero in my book. If someone was hijacking the plane and he risked his life and subdued the guy he would be a hero.

[Texasgal]

66. How can you say that?

He was more interested in saving his own ass? How can you say that? Do you have some sort of inside info that we ( the public ) don't know about?

Really... please provide us with some sort of proof of your shitty claim. I'll be waiting. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

24. You cannot practice water landings. Simulators don't do the trick either. nt

[Statistical]

25. People who haven't piloted an aircraft have no idea how much luck of skill it took.

Notice it was skill AND luck.

Ask 100 pilots of varying levels of skill to do the same thing and the majority would kill everyone on board.

Ask this pilot to try this 10 times in a row and odds are he would fail (and kill everyone on board).

Things that could have gone wrong (and didn't) = luck
Right place. Right time. If the plane was lower and moving slower when it was struck (maybe 1 minute earlier) it wouldn't have the speed and altitude to make it to the Hudson.

The engine contained the damage. It is designed to but sometimes designs fail. If engine didn't contain the damage and a piece of metal struck and punctured the wing tank the plane would have been misting a very flammable diesel/air mixture right into the flaming engine. The jet tank would have ignited and everyone would have died before plane ever hit the ground.

Even without a fire if the engine broke apart it could damage the wing and the lift characteristics of the aircraft. Worse keeping the plane level with different lift from each wing and no power would be an added nightmare.

The water was smooth. If it was a windy day with a lot of rough chop keeping the plane level would have been virtually impossible (see skill section). Plane dips wing into water and the sudden stop kills most if not all onboard.

Mistakes pilot could have made (and didn't) = skill
Water landings are usually fatal. Forced landing at runway are usually not. First instinct would be to try and make it to airfield. If the pilot misjudged the situation and tried he wouldn't have made it and everyone would have died.

Pilot kept the plane's speed in a narrow window. Moving too fast and plane breaks apart on impact with water. Move to slow and it stalls. There is no second chance. Plane no longer has power so it can only trade altitude for speed. Trade too much and would would be able to slow it down. Trade to little and you won't make it. The margin for error is very small. An inexperienced pilot (or less lucky one) could easily have pushed the plane out of the window.

Pilot kept the plane (with damage) level. If the wing hit the water the plane would stop almost instantly. The passengers would be subject to a massive amount of G-force and plane decelerates to 0 too quickly. Most would have died in their seats. The plane's wing would have ripped off from the stress and the cabin break apart. Those that didn't die wouldn't have been underwater in seconds.

So it was a remarkable combination of skill and luck that kept everyone alive. Just because one pilot could do it doesn't mean that everyone could. Just because this pilot did it once doesn't mean he could do it again.

Another way to look at it is as a "game/simulation" with 6 variable that are all related and changing in realtime. There is a small window that is also changing. At anypoint you put any variable outside the "win condition" you lose. No second chances. Oh and BTW if you lose you die so no pressure.

[crispini]

47. I think that's why people like this story.

Amazing combination of skill and luck. And everybody lived. What a lovely thing. It makes me happy. And heaven knows, we need something to smile about.

[TrogL]

26. It was as close to a perfect "landing" as you could get

I heard him explain it that you needed the perfect angle of approach (nose slightly up so it won't somersault), absolutely level (so it won't cartwheel) and just over stall speed (so you've still got enough air over the control surfaces to maintain control) and to make the decisions leading up to that early enough to actually pull it off (not get distracted trying to go for a runway).

Everybody walked away. What more could you ask?

I've flown with pilots with 40 years experience who had trouble hitting a runway.

[ferrous wheel]

37. Why on earth would you fly with a 40 year pilot who couldn't hit a runway?

I wouldn't do that and I fly them for a living. Sheesh.
(actually I'm not believing that claim...there are old pilots and bold pilots but damn few old bold ones)

[stray cat]

27. Do you have anyone better in mind? He did pretty well in less than 3 minutes from take off

[Pavulon]

30. Find a Commercial Pilot

and ask him how many hours he spend simulating water landings.

That aircraft lost both engines, meaning no avionics and little or no hydraulics until he had an APU running.

Yeah he did his job, really really well. He went above and beyond.

He is not generating the attention, the media is.

[Skittles]

31. come on

no amount of experience could truly prepare him to do that in a split-second decision - sheesh, it was friggin' AWESOME

[Hassin Bin Sober]

32. Watch this video and tell me that again.

This pilot was also trained to make water landings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZyDrpeWoBw


Note: this plane was hijacked but under the control of the pilot at the time of this crash. This was also a dead-stick landing (loss of fuel).

[Believing Is Art]

59. Not comparable

You're comparing landing on the Hudson to landing in the ocean. Both cases suck, but the waves make landing in the ocean extremely more difficult. Additionally, in this video, the pilot did not have use of his flaps, causing the landing to be even worse. He was hoping to make the airport at a nearby island so he pitched for best range, I don't remember if the hijackers wouldn't let him or if he lost visual because he was fighting with them. He was actually a very skilled pilot and many people survived. A good portion of those who didn't died because they inflated their vests too soon and got trapped in the fuselage.

Not to knock the captain of Flight 1549, but he didn't have to contend with the open ocean and hijackers. The comparison is a little harsh.

[Kahuna]

33. I can't agree with your assessment. I think he performed extremely well

under pressure. I've heard that it is extremely difficulty to make a water landing without the plane breaking up on impact. And I believe that. What he did took extraodinary skill and timing. Were I ever in that situation, I would hope that Scully is the pilot. :patriot:

[rpannier]

34. Ask the passengers who were on the plane

I think their opinions are worth the most

[MadHound]

35. You obviously don't have a clue about just how miraculous this landing was

And just how heroic the pilot is. Tell you what, let's see you land a jet in the Hudson, with nobody killed, then you can say he was just doing his job.

Do you really understand what a feat this was? Do you really get just how amazing this landing was?

Apparently not, because you're coming across as a mean spirited idiotic jerk.

[Balbus]

36. Some people call him a hero...

I call him "bird-killer."

[Smarmie Doofus]

39. Keeps us from thinking about stuff about which......

it is difficult to think.

e.g. Israel/Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, the economy, disparity of wealth, religionism, etc. etc. etc.

Sullenberger seems like a great guy and he's probably a good pilot ,but alas he's a mere mortal, all the hype notwithstanding.

BTW, who piloted the plane into the freaking birds in the first place ?

Maybe we can talk about some of the nasty, complicated stuff now?

[RamboLiberal]

68. Birds don't usually appear on radar and come up damn sudden

That's a freakin' idiotic comment.

[Ohio Joe]

42. I could not disagree more - nt

[Fire1]

44. Then ALL pilots should be trained to perform such landings

b/c obviously that is not the case. Many pilots 'do their job' but don't live to tell about it. Therein lies the difference. I think he is a hero and only hope I can get a pilot nearly as competent when I get on a plane.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Why is that obviously not the case?

I'd argue that all pilots are trained to do exactly what this guy did.

[ferrous wheel]

60. Exactly. The training is done even though nobody thinks it will work.

The reason is this: a "water landing" is 99.9% probable to be in the sea...not in a river. To my knowledge 1549's odyssey was the only time in history that a large airplane had a forced landing in a river. It's extremely rare for ANY type of aircraft and the reason is simple - there are few places in the world where there is no open space on the bank of a river. Right in big cities, yes...most everywhere else no. But aside from that, it's impractical to the point of impossible to completely train for an event that if it occurs will result in the loss of the plane.

[ferrous wheel]

51. The airplane manufacturers would love to have your idea implemented.

Hell, they could build 500 planes a day and still not keep up with demand.
:eyes:

[Believing Is Art]

62. Heh,

Well, in addition to holding airline transport certification, I guess the airlines could require that they also be certified on gliders and multi-engine sea planes . . .

[JSK]

45. My brother flies 747's

and he agrees.

[mmonk]

50. It's more entertaining to sheep than

a man being tortured by razor blades by order of their government.

[GCP]

52. I'm sure the passengers feel the same way - /sarcasm

:eyes:

[rucky]

55. you're just feeling the effects of media saturation

and it shouldn't take away from the pilot's actual achievement.

[renate]

56. I think it's his personality as much as anything else

If he'd gotten off the plane going "Yeah! I did that! I'm frickin' AWESOME!" everybody would have exactly the attitude you do.

But he's extremely humble and unassuming; he realizes that he was lucky in wind speed, distance from the Hudson, etc; he admits he was afraid; and he makes sure to give credit to the rest of the crew and to the first responders.

Did you see him on 60 Minutes? He was hugging the other passengers like he truly, truly meant it. I love a humble overachiever. I think he's absolutely wonderful. :loveya:

[mnhtnbb]

57. It's a miracle that ANYBODY does a job right, the first time, these days.

Obviously, no do-overs in an emergency water landing.

I happen to agree with you: this guy was trained to do what he did and he did it right. It shouldn't be such a big deal. BUT, I have been griping to hubby for years--it seems--that it's almost impossible
to get anyone to do anything right the first time these days. Contractors are the worst.

I'm glad the pilot made the landing the way he was trained. He's also a senior guy. I wonder
whether someone with 20 years less experience would have been as successful.

PS: I was on the beach in Santa Monica years ago--and I do mean years, maybe 30?--when F. Lee Bailey
(the famous attorney) made an emergency water landing of a small plane he was piloting right after take-off. He came in perfectly, too. Everybody got out. The lifeguards went out to help!

[treestar]

58. He didn't just do the job, he did an exceptional job

Usually when something goes badly wrong, everybody on the plane dies. He maneuvered out of a tight spot. That plane could have crashed and all on board could have died. And if that had happened, it would not be because the pilot had "not done his job."

It's one thing to do your job under routine conditions, another to succeed in disastrous conditions.

[Dappleganger]

61. Exactly. We need more heroes of the right kind at this time.

[Generator]

64. Agreed, let's get back to the Octomom

Outrage is much more interesting.

[Bluebear]

65. He should be getting attention, I just wish the flight attendants were recognized as well

They evacuated 150 safely while bobbing in a river. Bravo to them.

[Texasgal]

67. All of the crew were featured at the superbowl.

I don't thing this fellow asked to be excluded from all the accolades. He has mentioned several times in several interviews that his crew did an outstanding job.

[Bluebear]

69. Thanks, Texasgal, very delighted to know that :)

[Nye Bevan]

70. Let me guess..... you weren't on the plane?

Let me guess again..... you are actually a goose?