Anybody see Senator Boxer on Rachel Maddow? She said something extraordinary that is

[Cleita]

sticking in my mind. She said that the Republican minority is forcing the Senate to have a 60 vote majority before they will pass any legislation. She seemed amazed herself that fellow Americans even if on the other side of the aisle will do anything to block what is necessary to save this country. She says it looks like this is the way it's going to be from now on and then mentioned that when she started realizing what the Senate was really about that maybe she's been there too long.

I'm aghast too, that these partisan creeps can't put their country first and party second when it comes to undoing a crisis that they were the cause of to begin with. I really hope that every voter who has a Republican Senator that they voted for takes a good hard look at what they have representing them and makes an effort to change that the next time their Senator comes up for election.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. To a point it was the same way in the 1930s

why I'm not surprised

Or aghast... and hopefully the people will do that and finally send the GOP the way of the Whigs

[roguevalley]

29. show me if I am wrong but does it matter for 60? If they get enough

to pass it short of sixty, Obama won't veto it. The 60 only matters in a presidential veto, right?

[hfojvt]

31. no, 60 matters for cloture. Unless they get over 60, the minority can fillibuster

However, once upon a time people would vote for cloture even on a bill they would not support. Thus, the Clinton budget passed by a vote of 51-50 and so did the Bush tax cuts of 2003. Of course, Democrats were mostly afraid to fillibuster because the liberal media would crucify them as obstructionists.

[roguevalley]

32. ah, that's right. thank you. they need to shove the filibuster up mitch

mcconnell's bum.

[jazzjunkysue]

34. Yes, but, that's a card you can only play a few times. 51 is still going to work

alot of the time. They just can't afford to have the delay now. But when things start to level out a little, and the panic subsides, and they want to move smaller bills, we can force them to use the fillibuster until it's so stinky and tired, they'll have to give it up as obstructionists.

So, we'll give them enough time over the next 8 years to become weary of the fight. It won't be 60 for the entire 8 years.

[drm604]

2. K&R

:kick:

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. But this is what the Democratic majority in both houses have been doing for two years

"We do not have a veto-proof majority; therefore, we must cave in to President Bush's every request, no matter how illegal or unconstitution that request might be. And we most certainly CANNOT even consider the possibility of entertaining discussion about whether or not an investigation into impeachable offenses might or might not be warranted!"

[aquart]

10. Why do we need veto proof for our own legislation???

We aren't going to veto our own legislation SO WE DON'T NEED THE VOTES TO OVERRIDE IT.

I'm missing something here, aren't I?

[pnwmom]

21. It's cloture and filibuster that's an issue -- not a Presidential veto.

And the solution to that is to make them filibuster -- not just threaten to do so, as they have been. Let them stand up there and refuse to end debate, let them stand up and talk themselves silly while they're making their obstructionism clear to the American public.

You're right, we shouldn't need 60 votes to pass any bill that comes down the pike, but that's what it's turned into, because they've been threatening to filibuster anything we pass -- and we've been backing down. Calling their bluff is long overdue.

[JCMach1]

23. Make them 'REALLY' filibuster... stop the fake voting shite

Make the obstructions self-apparent to the American people, sit back, and enjoy the backlash.

Oh yeah, and THREATEN every day to use the Nuclear option!!!

[endarkenment]

27. the solution is to run the nuclear option

and by majority vote eliminate rule 22's supermajority requirement. It was good enough for them to threaten to use it, it was good enough when it was used to move the threshold from 2/3 to 3/5 in 1975.


n 1892, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Ballin that both houses of Congress are parliamentary bodies, implying that they may make procedural rules by majority vote. In 1917, Senator John J. Walsh contended the majority of the Senate could revise a procedural rule at any time, despite the requirement of the Senate rules that a two-thirds majority is necessary to approve a rule change. "When the Constitution says, 'Each House may determine its rules of proceedings,' it means that each House may, by a majority vote, a quorum present, determine its rules," Walsh told the Senate. Opponents countered that Walsh's "Constitutional Option" would lead to procedural chaos, but his argument was a key factor in the adoption of the first cloture rule later that year. In 1957, Vice President Richard Nixon issued an advisory opinion stating that no Senate may constitutionally enact a rule that deprives a future Senate of the right to approve its own rules by the vote a simple majority. Although legally nonbinding, this opinion has been treated as definitive.
The nuclear option was officially moved by Senator Clinton P. Anderson (D-NM) (1963), Senator George McGovern (D-SD) (1967), and Senator Frank Church (D-ID) (1969), but was each time defeated or tabled by the Senate. The option was adopted by the Senate three times in 1975 during a debate concerning the cloture requirement. A compromise was reached to reduce the cloture requirement from two-thirds (67 votes) to three-fifths (60 votes) and also to approve a point of order revoking the earlier three votes in which the Constitutional Option had been invoked. (This was an effort to reverse the precedent that had been set for cloture by majority vote).
Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) invoked the Nuclear Option four times when he was majority leader: 1977 (to ban post-cloture filibustering), 1979 (to adopt a rule to limit amendments to an appropriations bill), 1980 (to allow a senator to make a non-debatable motion to bring a nomination to the floor), and 1987 (to ban filibustering during a roll call vote).<3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

The Senate Democratic leadership needs to make it clear to the General Obstructionist Party that if they intend to use the filibuster against everything that the nuclear option will be used to put an end to their crapfest.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. It is an epiphany that I wish would happen to a lot more Dems...

If they do not stand up and do what they have to...without waiting for the repukes to approve it, nothing will get done.The voting public has shown that they do not care what the repukes say or do...The dems have the majority..and they should use it!!!

The repukes certainly had no qualms about steamrolling over the dems when the repukes controlled congress...

[loudsue]

15. Because the people inside the beltway STILL believe the MSM, and don't realize

how much of the problem the rest of us think the MSM is. They are all intimidated by the corporate media monopolies, but don't realize THEY, themselves, could AND SHOULD break up those monopolies.

:kick:

[GreenTea]

22. Exactly, the MSM, Limbaugh & other republicans pound it into

the democrats what the republicans want the democrats to do, "don't listen to liberal in your party, the American people don't want that" and the democrats believe them and do what they are programed to do by the republicans - It's happened day after day, year after year, issue after issue.

The republicans and the corporations see only that the democrats want to give something to the people the workers - to the republicans it's outrageous because it all belongs to them, all the tax dollars, the corporate profits, all the worlds resources.

As the republicans see it, if the American people get any little bit of the pie it's taking money out our their republican pockets.

This is for real the republicans despise workers and only see ways of grabbing more money from them, many democrats want to help the workers and that to the republicans means the democrats must be destroyed any way possible be it with lies, distortions and/or smears, doing it illegally is also perfectly fine with the republicans - Just look at the way when republicans are in power they give everything to themselves and the corporations and not a single minute thing for workers.

One only has to listen to a republican like Ann Coulter, the things she spews out, her absolute hate for the less fortunate and the people who want to help and make it somewhat fair for those with so little and you will understand republicans completely.

[Duer 157099]

5. I wanted Rachel to ask why, when the Dems were the minority,

they never behaved this way. I mean, just for comparisons sake.

I'm astonished at how much these guests (not Boxer in particular, mostly thinking about Nelson earlier in the show) get away with, even in the face of good rational logical questioning by Rachel.

Like with Nelson and the school spending thing - he agrees that $100 million (billion?) is stimulative, and Rachel makes the logical leap "so, an additional $40 million should be even *more* stimulative" and he DISAGREES. UGH!!

I really really think we need to have some sort of intelligence test for Congressional members. I really do.

[msongs]

6. force the repubs to filibuster EVERY time - the US population will wise up nt

[JCMach1]

24. Exactly, BRING IT ON!

[Buns_of_Fire]

26. Imagine the M$M headlines: "Rebubbalicans in fourth day of filibuster, nation tires of it"

WHAT on God's Green Earth is WRONG with Reid? Let 'em go to it. Set up the cots, have their dinners brought in, let them read from the phone books of every city, town, suburb, and hamlet in the country while they're standing at the podium pissing in the pants after the first seven hours (except for Vitter, who's got that thing covered).

And if it drags the government to a grinding halt for a few days, so what? Is that any different from the way it is now?

[Oak2004]

30. I think, frankly, it's Senate laziness

I don't think Dem senators want to be "inconvenienced" by a filibuster.

My opinion is, of course, if I and other Americans have had to work the night shift, then why not you, you privileged wimps?

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. eventually people get pissed off enough that they start revolutions

It may be time again. Perhaps things will have to get worse but eventually, we chop their heads off. I'm looking forward to it.

[Mind_your_head]

8. Wait. If these Senators aren't putting THEIR country (presumably the United States of America)

first - than just which country is "THEIR COUNTRY". And if these Senators aren't trying to save "their" country (presumably the US of A) than just WHOM are they trying to save? Global Corporations???? Some other nation....like who? who? who? who? ???? :shrug:

[Two Americas]

25. see my user name

The Republicans represent, work for, and answer to the America of the wealthiest 1% - always, and they never vary from that.

There are two countries, two different Americas. That seems fundamental to me if one is going to understand politics in the country. Nothing else explains it, and seeing that there are two different Americas does.

Everything the Republicans do is for the benefit of the wealthy and powerful few. Everything. They are relentless and consistent. There is no "ideology," no "philosophy" - that is all a bunch of crap they make up to fool people into supporting them, and to distract us from what the battle is really about. They have been winning by default, because Democrats fail to recognize what the battle is about and where the battle lines are and are no shows.

[barb162]

9. The Republicans just want tax cuts and help for Wall Street

whether it's smart or not. That's their whole agenda and they will push for those things. And I think they think that will help the country as they know it. Just because people don't have jobs and without jobs, a tax cut is useless (what does a tax cut do for you when your income is zero: nothing), the Republicans don't care.

[Mind_your_head]

11. self-delete

I re-read your post and realized that I misunderstood.

Peace,
M_Y_H

[barb162]

12. The last thing I care about is the bankers. The pugs care about the bankers !

Where do you see that in the post? How does "they" as in Republicans translate to "me." If every last multi-millionaire banker ended up on skid row, my day would be made.

Tax cuts only benefit people with income. Jobless have no income so those stupid tax cuts do nothing for the jobless who need the most help. If the country were booming, I'd say do some tax cuts. With the country in the shape it's in now, there should be tax increases on the wealthy.

[pansypoo53219]

13. if obama DOES NOT FAIL

republkkkans are gonna stay in the minority for a long time and they REALLY REALLY REALLY liked having EVERYTHING their way.
this will be hard for them NOT GETTING THEIR WAY.

[Mind_your_head]

16. Do I hear the sound of music?

tiny, very tiny.... :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Oak2004]

33. long time = forever

The Republican Party is a dying party. Unless they reverse their mad dash to ever more distasteful extremes, they will join the Federalists and the Whigs as yet another failed incarnation of the "not-Democratic" party.

The "not-Democratic" party? The Democrats of course trace their origins to the coalition led by Thomas Jefferson in opposition to the Alien and Sedition Acts. But there's a peculiar continuity to the major opposition to the Democrats, too. It's possible to draw a line that runs from the Federalists through the Whigs to the Republicans. One historical commonality is that the not-Democratic Party tends to attract corporatists. Yet another is that they tend to fall apart in the face of national crises.

I think we're looking at yet another crash and burn by the not-Democrats. Whether they go ahead and take what's left of their party over a cliff, or whether they realize what's happening, wake up, and try something that will save them, remains to be seen.

[tex-wyo-dem]

14. With all due repecr to Senator Boxer...

(Love her and have always been a big supporter), she must have had her head stuck in the sand these last 8+ years not to realize that today's rethug party is filled with nothing but morally bankrupt idealouges. The rethugs care about nothing but retaining power and enriching their crony buddies...the rest of the country can go pound sand as far as they're concerned. Somebody needs to inform our good Dems that the other side of the isle are nothing more than psychopathic assholes who can't be reasoned with.

[Mind_your_head]

17. True, but why the H*ll can't texans spell good?

Must be the edumacation "down there".

isle vs. aisle? typo I'm sure......

[tex-wyo-dem]

18. Nope, meant other dide of the metaphorical island :)

Or it could be this damn little Blackerry keyboard :p

[Mind_your_head]

19. Could be

;-)

on edit: or NOT.....I'm Sister Sara and I'm gonna slam a ruler down upon your knuckles if you don't get it right the first time!\

*WHACK*

:rofl:

There IS something "good" about strong discipline. Without kindness and insight, it can easily be run amok.

[LaPera]

20. I'm more blown away the Dems didn't know this, after what they went through when

the republicaans held complete & total power and treated all Democrats like less than dog shit....I'm fucking amazed many still don't see it, that all that matters to republicans is the wealthy power and providing everything available to their corporations, including workers as nothing more than slaves if they could get away with paying us nothing they absolutely would....

I am just stunned by the Democrats lack of foresight, perception and just plain stupidity & ignorance with their heads up their asses!

I saw it very clearly, since Reagan what these republican pigs were really all about and knew with complete power after allowing 9/11 to occur they would get everything they wanted and would be ruthless inthe process for any who disagreed or got in their way and it came to pass...

Fuck the people and let corporations run wild and control us with their fascist surveillance & tactics....If we the people didn't call them on the bullshit electronic voting machine scams...we would as Rove said be in republican rule for many decades and complete republican corporate fascism and mass public prisons for all liberal progressives and anyone else who disagreed with republican ideology and their imperialism....

It's so unbelievable our Dem leader still aren't aware of the republican greedy hateful intentions....And now we have to live with an intentional raped treasury and purposely no help or money left for the workers, middle class or poor....

And the Dems didn't see the fucking republicans for who they really are....the republicans would rather see the country go down further then ever vote on anything offered by the democrats that might truly help the workers and our country get back on it's feet, instead they want the same old shit that got us into this, more tax cuts & bailout for their corporations, screw the workers....This is really who these sick corporate fascist republicans are.

It started under Reagan and the same people back then were there with Bushco and they have made it steadily and progressively worse...Assholes like liars Limbaugh have gotten even more uglier & uglier...the republicans clearly showed what they were all about when they controlled all three branches and if one didn't learn from that then fuck I didn't know what to say....The republicans are the worse scum imaginable....It's more than sickening these corporate republican fucks care only about money and power.

[Orsino]

28. And Boxer clumsily dodged Maddow's key question...

..."Why don't you take that power away from them if they keep abusing it?"

No answer.

[WyoHiker]

35. In 2010 increase the Democratic Majority by just 1, two to be safe.

Problem solved.

[Horse with no Name]

36. They just need to go nuclear.

The pubics threatened it all the time and the Democrats backed down.
Enough is enough.
There is work to be done and all they want to do is obstruct.