Hydrogen Superhighway concept

[greenman3610]

http://www.hydrogensuperhighway.com/



Our mission is to mass produce the least expensive and most universal form of public conduit to move people via maglev technology, and simultaneously provide structural conduit for the distribution of electricity, potable water, liquid waste, fiber optics, hydrogen, oxygen, and where applicable, other liquid and vapor based fuels. By partnership with the State and Federal governments, we intend to expand our business to include an International Sales Organization to supply light rail systems and utility conduits to municipalities world wide.

In this regard, our aim is to provide a continuous revenue stream for municipal governments for the management of public works and the embellishment of parks and other public spaces along with the management of local public transportation services at all levels.

Our vision is this: To mass produce a unified public conduit system that can be installed anywhere at the lowest possible cost, the highest possible quality, with the greatest efficiency, built from the most resilient materials and is pollution free.

[Earth_First]

1. So what's the pricetag? n/t

[LiberalEsto]

2. The problem with hydrogen

to put it very simply, is that by its nature this element is highly reactive and potentially explosive. Its reactiveness also means it deteriorates most structures designed to contain it.

As far as I know, the best available solution to the problem at this time is to generate hydrogen on-site, to be used as needed. This eliminates the need for long conduits and storage vessels that are subject to hydrogen deterioration.

In addition, any energy source that needs to be transported to distant locations is subject to disruption along the transmission line by outside means, whether by natural occurrence, accident or even deliberate interference. There have been cases of large blackouts in the electric grid caused by squirrels on power lines. Also, the farther electricity travels, the greater the loss of its energy due to resistance in the lines. The movement of petroleum products is subject to all sorts of potential disruptions, including spills that create severer ecological disasters. I'm concerned that a vast hydrogen infrastructure would pose similar hazards.

Producing energy close to its point of use is sometimes called distributed generation or on-site power. It has many benefits, not the least of which is that in the case of electric generation, heat from the generating process can be tapped as an added energy resource.

Hydrogen as a power source has many merits, but there are a large number of obstacles that must be overcome.

[ThomWV]

3. Those are problems but they aren't the reason we'll never have hydrogen powered transportation

First off hydrogen as a power source only has one merit, that is that when you finally get to utilization the byproduct is water - so at the final stage of its production, transportation, and use cycle it is clean. Unfortunately its no where near as clean in the other two stages.

Where will the hydrogen come from? There are three answers to that question. Although hydrogen can be found many places just like any other raw material the place to get it is where the concentration is the highest. Unless the hydrogen is highly concentrated at the source it is very expensive to separate it for use.

The first place to find hydrogen is in the air. Imagine that, free energy from the air. Well, imagine is all you are going to be able to do because the concentration is too low to extract it at an economical cost. No one talks about direct extraction from the air for just this reason.

Water is two thirds hydrogen, that is a high concentration. Every molecule of water is made up of two hydrogen atoms and one of oxygen. The hydrogen and oxygen can be separated by the application of electricity. Water covers three quarters of the globe and electricity can be produced by solar panels to extract it. However solar panels are inefficient and expensive, collection, compression, and transport infrastructure is non existent, water which seems so abundant is not universally available in sufficient quantities to address regional needs. So while hydrogen extraction from water is a great junior high school science experiment, there is little to no serious consideration of this source of hydrogen as the source for the massive amounts we would need.

The third place to find hydrogen in large quantities is in coal. Not only is coal a good source of hydrogen but you can also produce the energy required to liberate the hydrogen by burning a portion of the coal, making steam, ruining a tribune with the steam, and spinning a generator with the turbine. Its all horribly inefficient, but the coal is so inexpensive, albeit dirty, that this turns out to be the most economical way to make large amounts of hydrogen at relatively low cost.

This third option - coal to hydrogen - is the only one that has ever been seriously considered as a source by the Department of Energy (DOE) and it is the source we will end up using if hydrogen is to power our future.

Is this what anyone wants?

[LiberalEsto]

4. Not if it means leveling more mountaintops

Because you live in West Virginia, I'm sure you know a great deal about what the coal industry is doing to wreck the environment. From what I've seen an read, it's an atrocity.

[ThomWV]

5. I want you to read this reply if no one else does - its about mountaintop removal

I am an old man, retired and curious. I have two great pleasures left in life, one is riding a motorcycle and the other is seeing things for myself.

Last year in a series of rides I toured my own state* - all of it. Of course I did not see every acre, did not ride down every road, but I saw an awful lot of it and I put myself in places where I would likely find all the state offers. After spending last winter reading up on the state's history I set out.

When I got to the southern coal fields, particularly on the west side of the state along the border with Kentucky, I expected to see "mountain top removal' coal mining methods. I never saw it. I knew it was there somewhere but even though I made no attempt what so ever to stay on major roads and randomly chose my route on many days I did not stumble on it. I saw some traditional strip mining but not much of it. I saw lots and lots of evidence of gas well drilling. I saw plenty of operating deep mines, but never once did I come across MTR, and more particularly I never saw any valley fill. I rode over 2,000 miles in the southern half of the state looking.

Since then I have re watched a documentary about MTR and every time someone mentioned a town where it was taking place I looked up where it was located and marked it on my maps for next year's trips. So I am going to find it and see it for myself. I just wanted you to know that it is not omnipresent and in fact while I am absolutely certain it exists its certainly not the general scourge that its made out to be.

By the way - I am no friend of Clean Coal.


* Most rides were 3 days long. Two criteria were used to decide where to ride, In the first I rode around the border of the state staying as close to the border as possible without leaving the state. Secondly, I also rode with a friend for one of the rides and on this one we visited the County Court House of each county taking whatever roads most expediently got us from one to the next. Between these two I was able to see a great deal of the state.

[Javaman]

6. Build the refuelling station next to a chlorine plant...

one of the by products of chlorine production is hydrogen.