Help! Ron Paul supporter and myself in heated exchange!

[TornadoTN]

I have a friend that I've talked about on here before - typical right-wing batshit crazy Republican of the Ron Paul variety. You know the type - "Government bad!", "No more taxes!", "Trickle down!", "Only spend on the military!" etc. etc. etc.

I posted a note on my Facebook from the DownWithTyranny blog a few days ago that outlined how out of touch Ron Paul is and added a few select notes and my own observations. I had totally forgot about posting it until a few moments ago I received a few notifications that I had new posts from this "friend". It was basically an anti-Obama screed about how Obama and his supporters (myself included) had no conception of the constitution and the stimulus plan was "socialism". It was the very definition of batshit crazy that we've all come to know and love from the Ron Paulians amongst us. I responded calmly and rationally, pointing out that conservatism and capitalism has brought us to the brink of disaster and that the constitution provides no restraints to the government giving money out in a stimulus of this magnitude. Of course, he just throws more "SOCIALISM!" and "OBAMA DOESNT KNOW THE CONSTITUTION AND HE'S GOING TO DESTROY IT".

So here I am - frustrated to the point of writing this guy off as a friend for good. I've tried the whole "let's not talk politics" route and it works for a while and then it just spirals back into more libertarian bullshit with a vengeance. I would like to have one final response before I cut my losses - so what are your suggestions? Have any of you had to cut off friends because of their political idiocy?

I just feel like I'm beating my head against a wall and at a loss each time this guy opens his mouth.

[deaniac21]

1. Oh, the HUMANITY!

[TornadoTN]

3. I see that and raise you:

[deaniac21]

12. Good One!

[anonymous171]

2. Paultards hate the Constitution (in its present form) and hate Lincoln.

In other words, they are batshit insane. Their only redeeming quality is that they are not fundies.

[TornadoTN]

6. That's pretty much the extent of it

I really liked this guy - he was a good friend and conversation mate until early last year when the height of Paultard mania was just hitting stride. Since then, it's been a shaky friendship that I've bent over backwards to preserve.

This Paulian bullshit is like a disease that rots the brain. I'd really like to do a side by side comparison of this guy before and after his Ron Paul meltdown. It's like two different people.

[FSogol]

4. The Onion mocked these guys pretty well. Here's the article:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32825

Libertarian Reluctantly Calls Fire Department

April 21, 2004 | Issue 40•16


CHEYENNE, WY—After attempting to contain a living-room blaze started by a cigarette, card-carrying Libertarian Trent Jacobs reluctantly called the Cheyenne Fire Department Monday. "Although the community would do better to rely on an efficient, free-market fire-fighting service, the fact is that expensive, unnecessary public fire departments do exist," Jacobs said. "Also, my house was burning down." Jacobs did not offer to pay firefighters for their service.

[mikeysnot]

5. My suggestion

cut your losses.... if they haven't figured out by now they never will.

Anyone who argues with fallacious generalizations is not worth the time.

[omega minimo]

7. You can't "discuss" with scripted bumpersticker people

:shrug:

[wryter2000]

8. I lost a whole e-mail loop because of one of these idiots

A small group of us who "met" on a work bulletin board. When the board was shut down, we formed a private yahoo group. One a-hole would not refrain from posting "Obama is a Muslim" crap. I finally had it with "Obama called Sarah Palin a pig" and left. I looked back recently, and the loop is essentially dead. Only one post in 2009. The idiot would not see that he'd shut the loop down because we were all so sick of him.

You might tell your friend that if he continues to try to talk politics with you, he'll never hear from you again. Maybe that'll sink in.

[TornadoTN]

9. That approach worked for a while

I think its time to cut losses, sadly enough to say. I hate to abandon people because I value friendship, but this nonsense is just too much.

I've tried to keep our politics seperate - I dont go to his boards and Facebook to talk politics, yet he can come into mine and do the same thing. In person it's the same story. 5 minutes of friendliness and then he shifts into "Obama is the worst thing ever and so are Democrats! Socialists! Get away from them!" mode. No matter how many times I smack him down, it doesn't change.

[pipi_k]

10. I've had to cut off friendships AND family ties

for various reasons, not just political ones, but I think the basic concept might be the same.

Ask yourself if having this person in your life really enhances it.

Can you look beyond the issues? Can the two of you work out some kind of compromise (with regards to discussing certain things that cause friction, like politics)? Are you both willing to work at acceptance?

It doesn't sound to me like he's willing to just let this whole politics thing go and be friends based on other mutual interests. In which case, if you're willing and he's not, it's not really a friendship, is it, because relationships/friendships are a mutual thing...not just one way.

When the price of a relationship/friendship becomes too much to pay, then it's probably time to say goodbye, but only you know for sure how much you're willing to give or not give...

and that's my suggestion

:)

[ColbertWatcher]

11. "OBAMA DOESNT KNOW THE ..."

That sounds Tom Cruise-level crazy.

I agree with people to unceremoniously dump this willfully ignorant loud-mouth.

[Elwood P Dowd]

13. Obama taught college Constitutional Law courses,

and he doesn't know The Constitution? Most of these idiots who say that have zero knowledge of The Constitution other than what their repuke propaganda pushers tell them. Dr Paul never taught Constitutional Law.

[madmom]

14. UM..Obama was a constitutional law professor, so I'd bet he knows it a bit better than most.

[mdmc]

15. Ya just got to accept people for what they are

I get along with my crazy bat shit right wing friends. I mean, I got this buddy, he is a drug war victim. Yet he supports the drug war (and all other GOP talking points, except abortion - he is pro choice). I accept that he is an idiot and move on.

[Ikonoklast]

16. The logical result of Libertarianism:

No roads. Build your own, and charge people to drive on it.

No schools, except private ones. No money for your kids to get educated? Tough. The world needs strong backs for stoop labor, too.

No police or fire protection. You're on your own, Skippy. Hire a guard to watch your stuff, and hope he doesn't burn your house down.

No employment rights of any kind. You can work for whatever I feel like paying you. Today may be less than yesterday, because I need a new BMW. Don't like it? Quit. Too old? Fired. Minority or female? Sorry, I only hire people that look like me.

No public sewer, sanitation or water systems. Get your own, and too bad if your neighbors crap fills your basement. He has rights, too.

No consumer protections of any kind. You eat tainted food, you die. Ayn Rand says you aren't strong enough to survive.

No drug safety whatever. China will have a place to sell all that diethylene glycol as cough syrup. Sorry you're dead, but that cough stopped, didn't it?

Sorry about you getting old and ill and can no longer afford a doctor or medicine as you are no longer a productive member of society, and didn't save enough money for your old age. You should just die. That is the natural order of things. Don't expect ME to help you out.



What these greedy stupid anti-tax libertarians don't realize that not paying taxes for just these few things would end up costing them way more if they had to pay for them themselves.

Your friend needs to re-read the Constitution and realize it is NOT a Capitalist Manifesto. No where in that document does it reference any economic system; it does, however, contain the words "Promote The General Welfare".

Capitalism without restraints is the reason we are in this mess.

[anonymous171]

20. I disagree. The result of Libertarianism is not Unrestrained Capitalism, but Feudalism. nt

[Ikonoklast]

22. I thought that was the direction my post was pointing.

I agree completely, the end result would be an Ayn Rand fantasy of a few, owning all.

[anonymous171]

25. Ahh I see.

Unregulated Capitalism would inevitably lead to Feudalism. Missed that connection the first time. Got it now :)

[musette_sf]

17. trying to reason with a libertarian

just leads you down a never-ending rathole.

you will finally refuse to play, because life is too damn short.

[Mz Pip]

18. Here's a good response

I dug this out of my bookmarked threads. Sometimes one of them comes in handy. This was posted by w8liftinglady back at the end of January. There certainly lots of publicly funded programs that I'm sure your friend would not like to do without.



http://www.thedailylight.com/articles/2009/01/08/opinio...

To the Editor,

Recently, I wrote a letter to the editor that generated a lot of response, much of it negative, regarding a national health plan. I love this discussion because at least we are talking about health care. Many readers called me and the program socialistic because of the government funding of this program. I did want to remind you all of a few programs that are run by the city, state or national governments that we would be worse off without:

• Police and fire departments are funded by city, state and federal funds. • Streets and bridges are funded by state and federal funds. • Farmers and ranchers are assisted by many state and federal programs. • Public schools exist because of state and federal funds. • The public library system in most towns and cities is publicly funded. • 86 percent of America gets its water from a publicly funded utility service. • Sewage treatment plants are state and federally funded. • The local, state and national weather services are publicly funded. • The state and national park systems are publicly funded. • Our military and veteran’s system is federally funded. • The Rural Electrification Act provided electricity to 85 percent of America’s farmland that had no access to electricity. • The GI Bill has enabled millions of veterans to serve their countries and pursue their education afterwards. Many of the nurses and physicians I know are there because of the GI Bill. • Social Security and Medicare have provided a safety net for millions of older Americans who would have had nothing in their retirement years ... again, federally-funded.

Do you support these programs? I guess you are a socialist, too. If not, I suggest you petition your representatives to remove local, state and federal funding of these programs. Privatize it all. And please, show me how you’ll do it.

[TornadoTN]

19. Thanks for that - it's a very good summary! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

21. Just came across this old thread...

interesting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=7344&mesg_id=7344

[davidwparker]

23. Evaluate what you get out of the relationship. If it's bring you down, then

take a break from it. I've had some where the "gift of their absences" was what I needed.

I don't think you can be that close to someone who is 180 degrees opposite yourself unless make-up sex is involved.

This is totally your call.

[TornadoTN]

24. Haha, nothing like that

He's a good friend from college (he dropped out and joined the Coast Guard) and he recently moved back into the area. Something really must have gotten to him while he was in, because this isn't the same guy. It's like he's lost every part of himself that was able to logically reason through scenarios and information.

I'm cutting the friendship, it's just not worth feeling dread whenever he's around. Maybe his Ron Paul circle of friends will be more to his liking, but I can't be part of that nonsense.