In this financial crisis, where is the anger at doctors?

[mmonk]

They inflate costs and are in cahoots with hospitals and insurance companies to screw you out of every dime and force bankruptcies.

[Coexist]

1. I worked for an MD PA

most of his salary came from speaking for medications, not from patient/insurance fees.

They DO push name brand meds. Drug reps are all over these offices, all the time, lining up to buy the office lunches, bringing daily Starbucks, arranging "speaking" lunches for MDs, providing drivers/cars to take them there.

Your real beef should be with the drug manufacturers. All that whining about "R and D" - but the cash they spend on marketing... damn.

I work on the other side now, for a mail order rx company. The calls I get from members when their MD states the brand is better and so they will pay for the name brand because they're afraid for their health piss me off. But of course I can't say anything... I do offer a pharmacist to discuss the difference between brand/generic if they want, but they usually say, "oh no, my Dr said..."

Its sad. And its a damn shame.

[mmonk]

5. I don't know anything about the industry insides nor pretend to.

This is in response to another thread (though I know we aren't supposed to start threads in response to others). But at least I'm admitting I don't know the industry from experience nor enough to make blanket statements about the people and profession.

[FormerDittoHead]

22. ...I hope you can see it's not a very good technique w/o even referencing to the original thread.

Kinda of like those messages that people write watching TV, thinking everyone else is watching CSPAN 3, and that this is twitter, with a subject like like, "Do you believe this guy?" ...and that's it - no message.

So, trying to pull teeth out of a hen's mouth, what was the original context of your reply?

[mmonk]

23. I tried to make it so over the top, people might figure it out.

Also, I did an immediate reply. I just wanted to see the responses or if anyone would actually agree with it like the other. Also, we're not supposed to do reply threads I think.;-)

[FormerDittoHead]

26. A sarcastic tag and a link would have helped - HERE'S THE LINK

I've been sarcastic and been taken seriously way too many times. You can't assume people have read the other thread, however, a link would really help.

For others,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5028114

[HereSince1628]

2. Yeah the docs are responsible for the 31% administrative costs

in our system.

[notadmblnd]

3. I just don't bother with them. It's not like they actually cure you of anything any longer

I've noticed all they do is prescribe a bunch of drugs that don't work to keep you coming back over and over and over.. My plan... to just drop dead and cheat them all out of money.

[skooooo]

6. Yeah right...

They caught and fixed a problem with my heart. Sounds like you just haven't had any problems...yet.

[notadmblnd]

13. and what regimen of drugs do they have you on for the rest of your life?

My husband is dead, heart problems. Went in for stents, had a major attack during surgery, needed transplant and didn't get it. Dead in his sleep at 54. There were at a minimum of 8 drugs they had him on. Drugs to keep his blood thin, drugs to keep cholesterol down, one for keeping his blood pressure up, another for keeping it down. Of course he had his nitro and aspirin a day to take also. And generally a weekly visit to the cardiologist. They did not keep him alive. In fact, I often wonder how all the drugs interacting with each other contributed to his demise. He complained that his cholesterol drug made his kidneys and liver hurt. the Coumadin made him dizzy. They never did do anything about the leg pain he suffered after his first bypass when they took the vein out of it to use. I remember his leg cramping so much, you could see the knot in it.

Yes, I've been lucky and hopefully I will be for a while longer. Still, I'll refuse to go to a Dr. and when I do get there, I'll either be unconscious or already dead.

I'm glad you feel your Dr has done a wonderful job for you, however, I feel it is now the exception to find a good one, and not the rule.

gotta run, have a nice day.

[skooooo]

33. None..

Zero..

Yeah, it's just a matter of luck I guess. My grandmother died because they neglected her. So I know what you're talking about.
:hi:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. depends on the doctor, frankly

I work for one who often sees folks once or twice and then not for years. Why? Because she finds out what's wrong, comes up with a way to fix it (often with a change in diet and supplementation), and sends them on their way. Her prescription for true preventive medicine is proper diet, exercise, and supplementation--all individualized to meet the needs of each person.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Moreover, they refuse to police their own....

Allowing the same smallish proportion of bad doctors to continue making preventable errors that end up in lawsuits, assisting in the coverup, resulting in higher malpractice premiums, and hence higher healthcare costs.

[remember2000forever]

18. Agreed,

Try getting a second, REAL opinion in a small town. They always need the first Doctor's notes. Now "Why" is that?

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Interesting Question

That's never happened to me, but even though i live in a small town, the town just 20 miles north is 140,000 people with a Class I trauma center. So, there are so many doctors available that i haven't experienced what you did.

Nonetheless, that's an interesting phenomenon.
GAC

[FormerDittoHead]

7. It's not the doctors - it's the system, and it shows the flaws of corporate capitalism.

We could point fingers at any of the players, the CEOs of the health insurance companies, the pharmaceuticals, etc. But they all are individual players each looking out for themselves, maximizing profitability for themselves, amoral about society.

This is the hell which Ayn Rand wrought. The assumption behind the libertarian philosophy is that this system is somehow supposed to be best for everyone, that it ends up delivering the highest quality products and services at the cheapest prices to the market, but the REALITY is different.

Simply, it's the role of GOVERNMENT to provide a better framework. The Reagan adminstration started the ball rolling with allowing hospitals to be profit centers, and it continued with the HMOs and then the ever-merging corporations. Other counties recognized these problems and dealt with them. Can we?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Sorry, but I have to laugh

I work for an MD who treats people charging very little--she has even spent hours with folks who didn't have a dime to pay. Insurance companies hate her and we fight with them every day because they are practicing medicine without a license. She doesn't just prescribe drugs, but uses supplements and natural remedies when they will do the trick. Yeah, she's not the "norm", but I like to think that there are a few more docs like her out there.

[mmonk]

9. This thread isn't serious. It's a response.

[Coexist]

10. bless her heart.

good for you. I was often uncomfortable reconciling my mom stressing about the cost of her rx, and my working for an MD who milked the system. And it was the lowest paying job I have ever had, btw - AND no sick time/vacation time EVER. He even made me punch a time clock...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Not mine

My doc's story is an interesting one. She got her MD in 1976, and was one of the few women in the program at the time. She was an opthmologist, a skilled surgeon, when she was diagnosed with cancer. After a radical double mastectomy, she contracted chronic fatigue syndrome and basically had to quit working for a couple of years. So she's been in the patient's shoes. She knows the worries, she understands the lack of compassion that patients often face.

And she is very kind and generous to her workers--I'm making more now than I ever have since moving to Arkansas, and I get sick leave and vacation time. No, no health insurance, but that's because I know what a rip off it is--and because I can see Doc at reduced rates or even for free, and get a discount on lab workups and on supplements.

[mmonk]

11. Where's my recommends?

[Egalitariat]

17. It's an unsubstantiated rant

You made an accusation but provided no support as if you believe everybody here already knows its true and agrees with you.

And if you think everybody here already knows its true and agrees with you, then why post it?

[mmonk]

19. So is the thread about real estate agents but it got recommends.

And this isn't a serious post to begin with, it's a response.

[Egalitariat]

21. I see. I missed the context and now I get it. I'll recommend it now on general principle***

nm

[mmonk]

25. Thank you very much.

:hi:

[cherish44]

15. I recently got a bill for $80 just so my doctor could take 5 seconds to write out prescription

And for the pleasure I had to take off from work (I don't get paid time off) and wait 45 minutes to see him. Oh and since I switched insurance companies (I'm newly divorced and have to buy my own insurance) I had to use a doctor in their network. The only one taking on new patients (this guy) is located 45 miles away from me. OH and my new insurance won't pay this bill because it's related to a pre-existing condition (for which I basically only take a couple pills a day). It's not just doctors it's the whole health care and insurance industry.

[Sanity Claws]

16. They are victims of medical insurers too

I have a good friend who is an MD. She wants universal coverage.
The multiplicity of insurers drive up doctors' costs; also, the insurers try to dictate what care they can give.

[endarkenment]

20. oddly, MD's are generally in favor of universal healthcare

and all of my doctors hate the current system.

[KharmaTrain]

24. And You Bsse This Assumption On What???

Doctors have long been on the short end of the insurance industries total control of the health system. They're told what to charge (or what is considered "fair market"), they decide which procedures are "valid" and then will refuse to pay doctors who they feel didn't play their game right.

My late father practiced for 50 years and in his final days he was extremely frustrated. If he wasn't being second guessed by an insurance company, it was some goofy suit that drove his insurance premiums way up. Surgeons were really screwed over as their insurance rates easily can top six digits...and makes them careful who they work with.

Look at whose making the money here...and why big Pharma and the insurance companies will fight health care reform tooth and nail. My bets are many phyisicians are trying to hold their costs, but this has long been outside their control. All the profit in medicine belongs to the insurance companies and their cronies.

[shireen]

27. not my docs

they're paid less than they're worth by insurance companies, have ridiculously high administrative costs imposed by health insurance companies, plus they have to pay health insurance for their employees.

I don't think doctors are the problem. Try to guess the real bad guys ... two words, each start with i and c.

[Ilsa]

28. I tend to agree with you. Most of the docs I know are not getting

rich, especially if their work is geared toward elderly on Medicare.

My father's doc barely spends time treating him even though he has supplemental insurance and is capable of paying the final out of pocket costs. My dad has Parkinsons, and it is advancing now and I have to beg the nurse to convince the doctor to see him and review his meds. Instead, he prefers to over-medicate his hypertension and undermedicate his Parkinsons. All Dad does is sleep and get physically weaker. But I guess his dr. doesn't think he makes enough money to see him regularly.

[shireen]

30. i am so sorry to hear about your dad

Can you change doctors? His doc sounds like a jerk. Or maybe challenge this doc's treatment protocols. Sometimes, they pay more attention to you when you come armed with information and demand explanations. I'm sure there are online support groups for Parkinsons where you could discuss the situation with other relatives, and figure out how to best deal with your dad's case. Online support groups have been invaluable to me, i've learned a lot from some great people who strongly advocate for my condition.

[Ilsa]

35. Yeah, but it's a small town so it is hard to do. The other doctor we would

considering switching to is at the same clinic.

I challenged the doc once on his Parkinsons med, and he said "Oh,it's working fine" which was clearly not true. So I've gotten him to agree to refer him to a specialist who will review my dad's decline to determine if upping the dosage and how to do it will help. Then the prescribing authority will return to the primary doctor, the negligent one.

It is getting difficult to get them to see within a ten minute exam that there are problems that could improve with a better medication regimen. Those of us who see his ups and downs, just within the blood level peaks and valleys of the meds, know what is needed. Being an RN doesn't hurt either.

But I'll be advocating for the doctor not to give up on him. He isn't dead yet, and there is no reason to treat him like a corpse.

[shireen]

31. dupe nt

[shireen]

32. dupe nt

[McCamy Taylor]

34. Majority of nation's docs are pushing for national health care.

[mmonk]

36. A morning kick for continuing the fight with the know nothings.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. Either your sarcasm is oversubtle or your thought-process is underdeveloped.

N.T.

[mmonk]

38. Why is it on me?

Maybe it is on the readers.

[mmonk]

39. There was no sarcasm tag on this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5028114