Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

About the poisoned pet food

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:54 PM
Original message
About the poisoned pet food
Dr. Michael Fox http://tedeboy.tripod.com/drmichaelwfox/ had a wonderful column the other day:

So who to trust? That is why I advocate home-prepared food for cats and dogs using whole food ingredients of known origin, as do many other holistic veterinarians who see a variety of cat and dog health problems clear up when the animals are fed a natural, whole-food, ideally organic diet. It is ironic that many companion animals who develop various diet related health problems often in part attributable to being fed processed pet foods, are put on costly manufactured prescription diets, many of which contain ingredients that should not be given to animals, sick or healthy, like ethoxyquin and other chemical preservatives.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bobbie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-25-07 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm starting to think there's little choice but to cook my own pet food
Who to trust? No one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah I'm looking into it to but it's expensive!
Not only are the ingredients more expensive but the added vitamins and minerals they need are pricey too. I'm not saying that will stop me though - anything for my baby!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. My dry dog food (Nutro) costs around a dollar a pound.
And I have two large dogs. At that price, I can buy a cheap roast, grind it and mix it with sweet potatos, green beans, and what have you. At least I know what's in there.

My one dog was way overweight, and I cut his dry food down to 1 cup per day (the bag says 6-8) and throw in a half can of Libby's pure pumpkin. They love it, lost weight, and have a lot more energy now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. but what's in that *cheap* roast?
commercial beef gets fed all sorts of additives and anti-biotics and it ain't exactly the healthiest stuff on the market either. we're killling ourselves w/ our food.OTOH we only spend about 10% of our budget on food to bring home as opposed to 20% - 25% in europe where local and organic is more common. of course, folks are still more apt to dine there, at least in italy and france, than here and make a social event out of a meal instead another multi-tasking item. but between the spinach and the peanut butter and the pet food and mad cow and the avian flu is still out there too, believe me, we have some serious and fatal flaws in our industrial agriculture and food production/supply system. start cultivating local sources you can trust now, that's my advice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Yeah I had the same thought nosmokes
Food for humans is contaminated with all sorts of crap.
If I cooked for my pets there's no assurance the ingredients would be good.
And there's no regulation on "organic" food.

I can see why other countries won't import US beef, and other foods.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. and time-consuming too
I don't have time to cook for myself, let alone my pet
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. I Never Understood Why Ethyquoxin Is In Food for Cats with RENAL Failure
Hill's is about the LAST thing I'd give a sick cat. I still feed prepared food, but it's not Hill's or IAMS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. tell us
what brand - please.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Hill's is Hill's Science Diet and Hill's Prescription Diet
There are better alternatives to the Prescription Diets for cats, especially cats in CRF. Low-protein is old-school besides counter to common sense - depriving an obligate carnivore of protein (and the methionine) only causes the animal to be weaker and malnourished, making the long-term survival with CRF not that long term (this is true in humans as well, though methionine isn't known to be as vital to humans).

I found out about cat food the hard way; my beautiful, darling Felix died from eating Purina. I learned all I could about it, and I currently feed either Nutro Natural Kitten (dry), Castor & Pollux's Organix and Natural (dry), Royal Canin Sensible Choice and Breed Specific (dry; I have Coons and a Siamese) ... and 9 Lives wet (my six cats share one 5.5oz can per day). 9 Lives is not high quality food, but it's not on any recall list and cats will eat any medicine hidden in Super Supper, and my Siamese has to take pills! I do supplement their diet with organic meat - the same kind I feed to me - and knock wood, they've all done very well on these foods.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. It still has ethoxyquin?!
:wow:

I thought everyone had stopped using it. What is wrong with Hill's, and why do they get to call themselves a "premium" food?!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hill's Still Uses It as a Fat Preservative; It's In The Renal Diets
They get to call themselves Prescription and Premium because not that many vets know that much about feline nutrition or even hard-core feline nephrology (for example, low-protein diets are proving to be not effective for humans or felines). Hill's tell the vets that they're the shizzle, and the vets do make a profit by recommending and selling it (notice how you can only get the 'prescription' diets at the vets? Many, many canned cat foods are appropriate for cats with CRF - not just the ones with the premium price; in fact the ones without articifical colors, preservatives or ethyquoxin are superior for a cat in chronic renal failure).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I had a cat with crf. Died in 2003, after 3 years of treatment
He wouldn't touch Hill's k/d. The vet wouldn't even look at other options, so I joined a yahoo group and asked people there. They gave me the names of other foods, and I went to my vet with a request for IVD modified. She'd never heard of it, but found out she could get it from her regular distributor. My cat loved it! He got both canned and dry for the rest of his life. If I had just gone by my vet, well, I can't imagine what would have happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'm Hugging a Boy Kitty with a Sensitive Bladder
He doesn't have classic FUS - no crystals in his urine and excellent pH (then again, I make sure he gets plenty of meat protein) - but he has something that's similar to interstitial cystitis that has given him hemorrhagic cystitis once (and a blockage - that was scary!). No one's sure what he has, but they're sure he his pH is exactly what it should be and that he's not forming crystals ... and he will never be given Hill's swill.

My 17-year-old Siamese was just diagnosed as being hyperthyroid and we're still getting her dosage right and checking to see that her hyperthyroid isn't masking any kidney problems (so far, so good, knock wood). If she is showing signs of CRF, I may ask you what you gave your boy! Three years is excellent!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. It's amazing what health problems are common in cats, isn't it?
I'm convinced most of it comes from what we feed them. It's hard to know what to do for their diets.

My crf kitty was on a food called Innovative Veterinary Diets (IVD) Modified Diet. It's made by Nature's Recipe and is a prescription diet. It worked well (as you say, three years with crf!), and he liked it! He absolutely WOULD NOT touch the k/d. But most vets, it's been my experience, don't know about it--or about anything but Hill's.

I'm not sure I'd go with it again. I suppose I probably would, but I've been thinking of researching more natural alternatives. Two of my cats are now 7, so I'm starting to worry about the things which come with old age--crf, flutd, hyper-t, etc. At any rate, I'm convinced the IVD is better than Hill's. I've moved since then, and, of course, the vets around here only sell Hill's, so if either of my cats gets crf, I'll be battling to get them IVD or whatever no-Hill's alternative I need.

If you do find your cat has crf, there's a really good yahoo group for crf cat companions. It was a huge help to me, in dealing with everything from finding a food to starting fluids, to just having a shoulder to cry on. I think it's simply "felinecrf", but I can look it up for sure.

Good luck with both your kitties!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. The best food in the world won't help if a pet won't eat it. No vet
worth their salt would try to starve a cat into submission on food.

Your vet did you a disservice by not recommending alternatives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I know. Just Hill's, Hill's, and only Hill's.
Even warned me when she prescribed it that most cats don't like it, and that we would probably have to do syringe feeding until he got used to it.

Now, she tells me she only uses IVD for crf, because cats like it. Good thing I did the research for her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. I haven't decided
My dog is part chow and will eat just about anything, including fruits and vegetables. Maybe she was better off eating our left-overs after all.

Anyway, this caught my eye. Stock-piled on the world market? Like maybe, our own wheat that was supposed to be aid?? Deteriorated to the point where it wasn't fit for humans, bought by China and resold back to us??

Nothing would surprise me anymore.

From Dr. Fox:

"Are there no limits on what America will import from China? Quite possibly, the wheat came originally from another country like India, and was a stock-piled commodity on the world market that deteriorated in storage where rats had access and were poisoned."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. "food ingredients of known origin"
Even food we cook for ourselves we don't often know the origin of, other than the grocery store.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. And that's so scary.
You can find out where it was shipped from and/or processed, but not where the ingredients came from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. if this guy is a vet why is he putting up a recipe for dogs that contains garlic?
google garlic dogs toxic

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Fresh garlic in large quantities is toxic, however..
Small amounts or garlic powder used for flavoring is not a problem.

http://mooreshaven.com/pets/dogs/safety/badfoodslist.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Garlic is toxic in dogs and cats. As such, it is ALWAYS UNACCEPTABLE
Edited on Mon Mar-26-07 03:52 PM by kestrel91316
as a pet food ingredient.

People complain about ethoxyquin all the time. But for some reason they just blithely accept that a small amount of poison deliberately put into pet food (garlic) is ok. It's not.

Garlic and other alliums contain substances which cause oxidative damage to red blood cells, shortening their life span. In most cases this damage is not clinically apparent, but it CAN be seen on lab tests as Heinz bodies. If anything else comes along to decrease red cell count or injure them, that animal is going to get into serious trouble much sooner because of the Heinz bodies.

I am shocked at Dr. Fox's apparent ignorance of or lack of concern about this. Talk about a gaffe. No wonder some people think vets aren't too bright.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
piesRsquare Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. Pet Food Recall Information
Updated info on pet food recall http://2blackcats.wordpress.com

Includes:

-Link to list of recalled foods
-List and link to other lists of safe foods for dogs and cats
-Links to FDA and PetConnection databases for reporting sick or diseased pets
-Link to info about filing class action suit
-Link to list of Grief Support numbers/contacts
-Information and recommendations from the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA)
-Clinical/medical information regarding the toxin and case presentation
-Links to other blogs following the recall

...and so on.

Click on the link above. Pass it around. Check the blog often. Link to it. I update it regularly--been up many long nights working on it. I'm a veterinary technician and have been following this whole deal very closely. The info there is up-to-date and accurate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why do so many of my patients make it to 17, 19, over 20 if the
food they're on is so bad?????

You'd think I'd notice poor outcome if it were happening a lot.
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. You actually have cats that will eat k/d?
The stuff is notoriously unpalateable. Widely known among owners of crf cats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Mine's been gobbling up the w/d formula ever since she
had to eat that exclusively when she had some serious diarrhea. I still give her a small amount of it twice a day as she's developed a craving for it, in addition to her dry food. I'm going to try and wean her off it and onto another quality canned food, as her stomach is doing fine now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ceile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. That's what I feed my babies exclusively (dry)
He's only had one "shock" (he's diabetic) since he started eating w/d in 2000 and he's healthy, happy although a bit on the chubby side. But he'll lose it this summer when he's outside more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. They reformulated the dry years ago and most cats LOVE it.
The original K/D canned was like rubber. I think I sold 6 cans in 10 years, lol.

Now there are two kinds of feline K/D canned. The silver top is the original, but it has been reformulated some cats will eat it, at least for a while. The gold top (aka K/D with minced chicken) is a BIG hit. Something the Hill's haters and vet haters will never admit to.

But I don't know anything. I'm just a cat vet, so you may believe whatever you wish, lol.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. what is k/d? and what are crf cats?
nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Hill's K/D is a prescription cat food (there's also a canine version)
for cats with chronic renal failure (crf). CRF is remarkably common in domestic cats, and Hill's makes a fortune selling their K/d food for it. Interestingly, my crf cat got the disease after eating Hill's non-prescription food his whole life.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. YES
my mum, her cats all live to be over 20 and she has always fed them store bought food
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. my kitty lived to be 17
and was on meow mix for about 13 years. Then she got crf of a sort. Oh and we tried everytype of prescription food. I even remember one that was venison. Finally one brand from Canada ironically worked well. I think she just got old, and food had nothing to do with her issues
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC