Obama can't handle the truth? (re: torture evidence)

[Generator]

This has so many levels, I can't even process them all. Just stunning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/11/binyam-mohamed-release-torture-letter

Binyam Mohamed torture evidence 'hidden from Obama'Letter to president about Binyam Mohamed was blanked out, say campaigners as they prepare for Guantánamo prisoner's release to UK
~

US defence officials are preventing Barack Obama from seeing evidence that a former British resident held in Guantánamo Bay has been tortured, the prisoner's lawyer said last night, as campaigners and the Foreign Office prepared for the man's release in as little as a week.

Clive Stafford Smith, the director of the legal charity Reprieve, which represents Ethiopian-born Binyam Mohamed, sent Obama evidence of what he called "truly mediaeval" abuse but substantial parts were blanked out so the president could not read it.

In the letter to the president , Stafford Smith urges him to order the disclosure of the evidence.

Stafford Smith tells Obama he should be aware of the "bizarre reality" of the situation. "You, as commander in chief, are being denied access to material that would help prove that crimes have been committed by US personnel. This decision is being made by the very people who you command."

[Generator]

1. Okay the next paragraph is the real stunner

It is understood US defence officials might have censored the evidence to protect the president from criminal liability or political embarrassment.

[Earth_First]

2. WTF?!

OOOOOOOOR...

to cover the previous administrations ass from incriminating themselves on 100's of other cases in which illegal methods of arrest, detention, and interrogation were executed/conducted!!!

Someone needs to get on this, NOW!

[EFerrari]

4. If he has evidence of torture, he has to prosecute Bush/Cheney.

That's the law. I tried to spell this out last week after the hearing re the San Jose Co that provided services to those torturing bastards at CIA but maybe I didn't do a very good job.

GO, CLIVE! Stafford Smith is a smart, dogged mofo'! This is the website: www.reprieve.org.uk

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Plausible deniability? The "I didn't know" defense?

It will be interesting to follow how this turns out.

[Solly Mack]

3. I'm not sure what to make of that...

(K&R)

Stunning..I agree.

[EFerrari]

6. Remember I was arguing last week that the Obama admin seemed to be

trying to slow down the rate at which they got information because as soon as they have clear evidence of torture, they must prosecute Bush. I don't think they're avoiding it per se but more, trying to pick their moment. :shrug:

[LakeSamish706]

9. I'm beginning to think that you might be right..... Pick one crisis at a time to ...

deal with. Given the magnitude of the economy, I am beginning to think that they will get to the rest, and know that they will have to deal with it.

[EFerrari]

10. Figure, when they go into court, they have to cover a LOT of bases at the same time.

And some of those goals are conflicting.

They have to see that justice is done for the people wrongfully held and tortured.

They have to try to limit the damages the Fed is responsible for, somehow.

They will have to fight pushback from deadenders, Republicans AND the media.

They have to have a plan in place to prosecute Bush/Cheney et al.

It's not something you just waltz into if you want to secure the best possible outcome. It looks like they're trying to accommodate Clive with respect to fast tracking Binyam, though. That's a good sign, imo.

[Solly Mack]

11. I read that on the thread in LBN and the thread you started in GD

I'm of the mind that enough evidence is already there and in the open to begin prosecutions...though certainly more proof...more damaging proof... has not been released for various Bush related excuses and other causes. (destruction, refusal to release, etc.)

Still, it could be a matter of picking the moment.

That said...this news...this deliberate censoring of potential evidence ...in a letter to the President, no less....creates a lot of questions. Mainly - exactly and precisely - who did the censoring?

Who would have access to a letter meant for the President? Who got the letter first? If it was addressed to the President...intended for the President....who got it first?

[EFerrari]

12. The State Department. And I think this is ALL about picking a moment.

Remember, State was were releases have gone to die? State has been working really hard to keep these souls behind bars where they have no access or little access to representation or media.

[Solly Mack]

13. The letter Stafford Smith sent to Obama went to the state department first?

[EFerrari]

14. I think so. Clive is in another country and that's State's job, right?

To sort out foreign relationships?

I don't see a way for him to speak directly to Obama except via the media.

[Solly Mack]

15. Within the letter, he says if the DOD is unwilling to forward (the redacted evidence)

so I think the DOD got it first. Which means Gates

But by first...I mean the first person who sent it on its merry way to redaction..in the Privilege Review Team

[EFerrari]

17. Well, the thing is, Clive might have mailed it via the system set up

for tribunals so that would route it through DoD. But, we know that State has been actively trying to suppress movement on these cases. So, my guess would be it went from DoD to State and redacted there. State is in this up to their eyebrows. But, that could be wrong and this could be one more thing that DoD/Gates et al is at war about with Obama.

If that's true, that is very worrisome and reminiscent of the Kennedy administration.

[Solly Mack]

18. That was my worry....DOD/CinC conflict

Which there does seem to be


Smith said he sent it to the DoD's Privilege Review Team....and got it back redacted and then sent Obama the cover letter and the redacted evidence...and that was all Obama got , unless the DoD forwarded the un-redacted version to Obama

It could have easily gone through State as well....since Miliband would certainly want to know of the letter to begin with.

[chill_wind]

21. You are very up on this and astute-thinking. Agree, very worrisome

in either/both scenarios.

[chill_wind]

20. Reading the Fax, a Privelege Review team at the DOD is in the loop= "US Defence Officials".

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2009/02/11/CSSlettertoObama.pdf

[EFerrari]

23. And the CIA can't be far out of this loop.

Rumsfeld/Cheney set up the torture program and Tenet fought them but CIA got in. So, Tenet left after he took a fall. Then, Rumsfeld was drummed out but by that time, Powell had left, and State was enlisted, too. That left Cheney and no one could touch him while he was in office. In the meantime, Rice and Gates and Mukasey had to be drawn in, too.

DoD, State, CIA and DoJ. That's our new Axis of Evil, right there.

Eta: Oops, I forgot HAYDEN at CIA. Remember how he sat there in the Taguba hearings and lied his @ss off?

[chill_wind]

30. I think there's a couple additional seats that could be reserved

for guys like Porter Goss and Pat Roberts-- and maybe even a Gang of Eight as well. Rotten at the top and reaches way down, somewhat systemically. But for sure, those two.

[EFerrari]

31. Porter Goss, definitely. He's murdering slime and has been since the 60s.

I don't know much about Pat Roberts.

We need the Roto-Router Man asap. :(

[chill_wind]

34. Roberts- Senate Intel gatekeeper for Goss et al.

Waxman probably has an entire file-drawer full of unanswered letters of inquiries to both of them.

Senate Intel Phase II...

Torture and the suspension of habeas corpus...

Doing Bush's dirty work down within the small committed ranks.

[Solly Mack]

25. Yes, I know

[chill_wind]

28. You were way ahead of my slow typing. :-)

[Solly Mack]

29. Here's another article about the privilege review team

http://www.truthout.org/article/detainees-rights-subverted-guantanamo-their-lawyers-say

[EFerrari]

32. JTF Guantanamo -- that's code for Axis of Evil, no?

Hmm. It might be worth it to run down who is "serving" on that unit. :grr:

Clive testified that guards told prisoners their lawyers were spies, homosexuals, Jews.

[Solly Mack]

35. JTF GTMO is the permanent, more or less, unit there

This is their website

http://www.jtfgtmo.southcom.mil/

Over the years, other military groups have rotated in and out - under JTF GTMO

It wouldn't be hard at all to find out just who was there then...

[EFerrari]

36. Before the info goes missing. n/t

[Solly Mack]

38. .

.

[EFerrari]

39. Internet snipe hunts. You gotta love 'em.

:hi:

[Solly Mack]

40. You know snipes actually exist? They're birds

[EFerrari]

42. Yep.

Look at this anniversary document:

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=JTF+GTMO+2003&fr=yfp-t-305&u=www.jtfgtmo.southcom.mil/wire/wire/WirePDF/v4/TheWire-v4-i08-31Oct03.pdf&w=jtf+gtmo+2003&d=cARYHw-YSNwY&icp=1&.intl=us

[Solly Mack]

43. I can't see Miller's name without snarling

[EFerrari]

45. From a featured interview in same doc:

Q: What has been your most reward-
ing experience since you’ve been at
Guantanamo?

A: Working with the detainees. I have
learned a lot of culture.

-- 15 Minutes of Fame... With Pfc. Elias Valazquez 1st Bn. 65th Inf. Bde.
Credits the Army: “Made me the man I am”

Interview and photo by Sgt. Jolene Staker

[Solly Mack]

48. I read that and just snorted

[EFerrari]

49. Whoever administrated these newsletters also had their marching orders

no?

And it's still all out there.

[Solly Mack]

50. Here's one from 2002

http://www.jtfgtmo.southcom.mil/wire/wire/WirePDF/v2/TheWire-v2-i17-04Oct02.pdf

GTMO is divided up into a military community with dependents and without...with the detention facility being an unaccompanied tour and other aspects being Navy/Navy families mostly. (retirees and DoD contractors)

The newspaper is primarily a base/post-wide thing....so, less likely to be considered revealing. And yet....

[chill_wind]

33. Quite the pre-meditated scheme....

"The 2004 protective order established a separate system to allow detainees and lawyers to communicate rapidly. A special privilege review team made up of Department of Defense censors monitors the correspondence, checking it for physical contraband. Once approved - correspondence cannot include mentions of intelligence, security, current political events, or news about other detainees - the mail is to be delivered in confidence to clients within two business days.

"Breaches of attorney-client privilege are par for the course," says Brent Mickum, a Washington-based lawyer representing high-value detainee Abu Zubaydah as well as others since freed from the facility. He recounts that when he sent letters to his clients recommending that they not participate in the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT), a military panel deciding whether prisoners are enemy combatants, his correspondence was delivered a day after the client's review in each case.

"It's clear that the military opened my mail, looked at it, and made the conscious decision not to deliver it until after the CSRT," he says.

[Solly Mack]

37. Very much so...pre-meditated

[chill_wind]

52. And another. "Cmdr. McCarthy"....(Navy lawyer) ...how apropos

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/26/washington/26gitmo.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[K Gardner]

7. Really excellent article/info - but the post title is misleading and I'm afraid

makes this look like an Obama-slamming post.. some people might not read it.

I have a feeling Obama will GET the information, one way or the other.

[Generator]

8. And I say tough shit to that

OH you made me mad with that. We are talking about our involvement in people's private parts being cut off and I need to worry about hurting some Obama can't ever do any wrong fans feelings? Give me a fucking break. Is Obama against torture or not? It's that damn simple. This stuff makes my stomach churn. God forbid we say anythig about our leader that's against him.

I'm amending this because your point is an even worse one,but not one you are guilty of. You are saying that the approval and worship of Obama is so strong they won't even look at anything critical. If that is the case then eventually this country is just as doomed as it was under Bush or anyone. Blindness is why people get tortured. No one wants to know.

And the title of this is pefectly apt. The human rights team had their truth about torture redacted because Obama can't handle the truth-if he could he wouldn't be taking the Bush defense on this. Not only can Obama not handle the truth-America can't and neither can anyone on DU. Apparently to be a Democratic now is to absolve everyone of their crimes-and MOVE ON.

DO YOU WANT TO BE TORTURED? Do you want your kid to be tortured? That's what I see. It could be ME. It could be my child. But if you don't feel that, get that, then torture continues. (note this isn't to you specifically to your post but everyone)

[bushmeister0]

16. Is Obama against torture or not? Good guestion, regarding hunger strikes, too.

From a previous post about the hunger strikers at Gitmo, Binyam Mohammed among them.

"What I want to know is if the 'Emergency Restraint Chair' is still in use, and if it is, what Obama is doing about stopping its use. If he condones this type of illegal brutal tactic for breaking a perfectly legitimate form of protest, then he's buying into BushCo's crimes and tarnishing his reputation just as badly."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bushmeister0/74

[EFerrari]

19. And I still blame bloody Nancy Pelosi. n/t

[chill_wind]

53. I believe he is under tremendous pressure to get this right

perhaps a lot sooner than he might have hoped to have to-- I think EFerrari makes very good points in post#10.

[bushmeister0]

22. "substantial parts were blanked out."

I just read his letter via PDF. The whole thing is blanked out! Un-freakin' believable. They really have a sense of humor over there in Arlington or Foggy Botton, or where ever.

[EFerrari]

24. And Clive can't just put it up on the net because of that British State Secrets law, right?

They'd arrest him?

[bushmeister0]

26. No, I'm saying that's the point.

The unclassified version has nothing on it. I'm just expressing my astonishment.

[EFerrari]

27. Gotcha. Did you ever read the first release of the Watergate transcripts?

I sat in my college library and tried to read them. We got kicked out by the librarian for laughing out loud.

[chill_wind]

41. A very pivotal moment is coming as early as next week.

Britain says officials will go to Guantanamo to visit ex-UK resident, seek his release

By DAVID STRINGER
10:06 AM PST, February 11, 2009
LONDON (AP) —

British officials will travel to the U.S. military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay to visit a hunger-striking detainee and help make preparations for his release, the foreign secretary said Wednesday.

David Miliband said the team, which will include a doctor from London's police department, will check on the health of Binyam Mohamed, a former British resident who alleges he has been the victim of torture.

(...)

Bradley spent a second day meeting lawmakers and officials in London in the hope that they will press the Obama administration to clear Mohamed for release.

"Mr. Mohamed's going to walk out of Guantanamo Bay ... in (one of) two ways, if people don't act — either insane, because of all that's been happening to him, or in a coffin because his condition is declining," Bradley told a news conference in London.

(...)

story: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-eu-britain-guantanamo,0,6408050.story




British lawmaker David Davies, seen, during a press conference in London, Wednesday, Feb. 11, 2009. In a case that is raising uncomfortable questions for President Barack Obama's new government, an American military lawyer has met with British lawmakers in an appeal to free a British resident from Guantanamo Bay. Air Force Lt. Col. Yvonne Bradley, representing British resident Binyam Mohamed, met Tuesday with several lawmakers in London. Although Mohamed's release will ultimately be determined by his American captors, Bradley says Britain has the power to put more pressure on Obama. (AP Photo/Alastair Grant)

[Solly Mack]

46. I think Miliband is concerned about his own political skin

Thanks for posting this!!!

[Parker CA]

44. Why could Obama not contact Stafford Smith directly and request a copy sent to the Oval Office?

This whole situation sounds very cloudy, and I don't know even remotely enough about it to comment with more informed detail, but why can't Obama simply request an original document of something like this and ask that it be sent directly to he or his personal staff?

[EFerrari]

47. He can. But he has to be legally prepared to get a response. n/t

[leftstreet]

51. "would make waterboarding seem like child's play"

Earlier, she told a press conference that Mohamed's treatment "would make waterboarding seem like child's play".

All that effort the M$M put into the waterboarding 'debate,' and it was just smoke and mirrors.


:mad: