Helen's question at last night's press conference was extremely important.

[scarletwoman]

quote
If you can't admit that Israel is armed with nuclear weapons, then you can't speak the truth.

If you can't speak the truth, you can't discuss the real situation.

If you can't discuss the real situation, you have policies based on lies.

How did the US come to this?

A post from Sic Semper Tryannis: http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/ -- one of the finest sites on the internets.

sw

[scarletwoman]

1. Sincere thanks for the recs, whoever you all are.

I do understand why no one wants to post a reply. No problem.

sw

[katsy]

2. k/r

how indeed.

[scarletwoman]

4. Thank you. (nt)

[peace13]

3. I wish I would have heard her ask it.

Gotta love her.

[scarletwoman]

5. It was really quite a moment. Like a bolt of light. I imagine there's video up somewhere, or

at least a transcript.

sw

[Karenina]

22. Indeed it was! I nearly fell off my chair!

GO HELEN!!! :woohoo:

[JFKfanforever]

75. Brave Helen...

She deserves the VANUNU AWARD FOR TRUTH.  It's like the Oscar
of journalistic integrity.

[scarletwoman]

16. I hope you've seen post #9 in this thread. Links to video. (nt)

[peace13]

26. Thanks for the link.

We lost electricity last night in those 60 mph winds. We live to see another day and the roof is still on. Don't know about the shingles but hey. Thanks, I will check out our dear Helen. peace, Kim

[unkachuck]

6. I seen Obama....

....blow her off but I couldn't make out what she was saying at the end....I thought that was quite disrespectful on Obamas' part considering Helen's been around since, Kennedy(?); but what do I know....

....like usual, Helen speaks the truth....I can see Obama not wanting to impact the Israeli election but smacking Helen down, not good....I don't remember bush whacking the old girl....

[scarletwoman]

8. It was quite the tap dance.

I think he knew she "got" him.

sw

[burrowowl]

18. Everyone knows that Israel has at least

250 nukes, why couldn't Obama say: Israel has nukes!?

[scarletwoman]

21. Why, indeed.

What Obama wouldn't say spoke volumes.

sw

[bdamomma]

31. Would get AIPAC breathing down his neck ?

[cascadiance]

41. I liked the way on Democracy Now this morning a guest called AIPAC its own country!

He was saying that when you talk about the U.S. relations with Israel, there in effect is three different countries... The U.S., Israel, and AIPAC.

AIPAC is supposed to be representing the interests of Israel and making them work with the U.S.'s. But in effect it does neither. It serves ITS OWN interests and often to the detriment of BOTH the people of Israel and the U.S. It's really about serving the shadow special interests that fund it like the military industrial complex, and those entities that benefit from foreign aid over their Israel, etc.

The same with the ATC (American Turkish Council) between the U.S. and Turkey. And in effect AIPAC and the ATC probably share more in common with each other than any of the other countries involved, and have many of the same people in both of these organizations (Brent Scowcroft, etc.).

We need some way of DISABLING these "countries" (AIPAC and the ATC and other similar neo-con military industrial complex lobbyist groups) and how they affect our government.

[Shipwack]

68. Bush had neither the balls are brains to "whack her"...

Bush never smacked her down because he put her in back at the kiddie table, and she was never (as far as I can remember) called upon.

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. I knew it was important when I posted it that night of the conference

It addressed that Israel is not a signatory to the NNPT
Only four recognized sovereign states are not parties to the treaty:
India, Israel, Pakistan and North Korea.

If Iran is a signatory to the treaty it makes Israel a hypocrite.

[scarletwoman]

10. Yup. I posted on the thread you started. I would have started my own if you hadn't.

As it is, I read the post I quoted in my OP tonight, and decided to give Helen's question another little push.

sw

[slipslidingaway]

9. Here are the two videos...

President Obama's first press conference - Helen Thomas gets to at least ASK a question...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVGWdLsAoBA

Helen Thomas weighs in on Obama press conference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9GFVCufXVI

Just posted these in the PV forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=270969&mesg_id=270969


Great questions and great link, thanks scarletwoman.

[scarletwoman]

11. Thank YOU!

Sadly, my poor old Flintsones computer can't do videos, so I can't watch the video of Helen's response. A summary would be much appreciated.

In any case, thanks for posting links which will be of benefit to those who can do videos.

sw

[slipslidingaway]

14. My pleasure, here you go...

She thought the press conference was very smooth, he was the lawyer and the professor...he lacked wit and humor because she thinks he is serious and focused.

He was well prepared and went pretty well for him.

She says he thinks he could tell us more, he was pretty evasive on a lot of things, especially foreign policy.

On Iran she wonders why we do not give the signals instead of waiting for them...must have referred to another answer on Iran.

The nuclear weapons question in the ME - "he dodged that one..." How can he keep saying Iran is going to have them...

She says that these press conferences are important for the American people to know that a president should ALWAYS be questioned on what he does in terms of policy, war and peace.

"I think he did well, but I think he could have done better."

[scarletwoman]

15. Thank you very much!

"...a president should ALWAYS be questioned on what he does in terms of policy, war and peace."

Absolutely right on!

Her take pretty much matches mine -- he knows how to skillfully evade what he doesn't want to answer, while at the same time he's extremely knowledgeable and intelligent.

He's very adept at being evasive. But I want straight, direct, and honest answers -- not fancy dancing.

sw

[slipslidingaway]

29. YW, yes honest answers would be nice :) n/t

[Adsos Letter]

77. "He did well, but I think he could have done better."

I love this woman...

[GeorgeGist]

105. The Audacity of Hope ...

would be to believe that the truth makes any difference, to the newest coward-in-chief.

[Road Scholar]

12. K&R nt.

[scarletwoman]

13. Thank you. (nt)

[scarletwoman]

17. kick -- because I feel like it...

[uppityperson]

19. k&r, I had thought she meant Iran. Reading this makes me think I was wrong.

[scarletwoman]

20. Iran doesn't have nukes. Only one country in the region has nukes.

If the answer had been Iran, Obama wouldn't have danced all over the place to avoid answering the question.

sw

[uppityperson]

40. Which makes sense, thank you.

[Tesha]

69. Actually, two: Israel and Pakistan, both allegedly "on our side". (NT)

[Vattel]

91. Pakistan is a different region, a region that also includes India

[Tesha]

106. Wow! And here I was believing that Iran and Pakistan shared a several-hundred mile border...

...which sort of by definition puts them in "the same region".

Ahh! They do share that border!

You could certainly argue that Israel is in a different region, but I was
making a point about why Iran, with pre-existing nuclear powers near
its western border and immediately on its eastern border, might itself
crave nuclear weapons and, by our own avowed military strategies
and policies, be entirely entitled to having them.

Tesha

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=pakistan&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.554089,70.224609&ie=UTF8&z=5

[slipslidingaway]

33. That is the problem, we continue to hide the truth...

:(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu

"Mordechai Vanunu, born in Marrakech, Morocco on 13 October 1954 is an Israeli former nuclear technician who revealed details of Israel's nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986. He was subsequently lured to Italy and kidnapped by Israeli agents. He was transported to Israel and convicted of treason.

Mordechai Vanunu spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 years in solitary confinement. Vanunu was released from prison in 2004, subject to a broad array of restrictions on his speech and movement. Since then he has been briefly arrested several times for violations of those restrictions, including giving various interviews to foreign journalists and attempting to leave Israel..."

[Zhade]

93. That man is a HERO.

NT!

[slipslidingaway]

107. Or some say a traitor :( n/t

[Ani Yun Wiya]

23. Perhaps...

this shows that "politics" is not about recognizing and deaing with truth.
Maybe politicians think truth is someone else's lookout.

[hologram]

24. Another take.

If you choose to publicize/compromise Israel's defense capabilities then you must have a credible answer ready when Iran and other "rogue" nations use that as an excuse to build and stockpile their own WMD for "defense" from Israel and be ready to deal with the ensuing WMD race in the Middle East.

Reality sometimes has a way of preempting the very best of theories.

[baldguy]

73. Iran is trying to develop nukes in part as a response to the threat Israeli nukes pose to them.

Remember - Israel does have a nuclear monopoly, and they do have a history of preemptively attacking their neighbors to maintain it.

If you're concerned with reality, you have to acknowledge to true military capabilities of all the parties involved.

[TBF]

25. K&R n/t

[Mr. Sparkle]

27. I think the right wing loonies all have collective hearing problems. The question Helen asked was ..

"Do you think that Pakistan are maintaining the safe heavens in Afghanistan for the so called terrorists." Basically, she asked if the Pakistani government are involved with helping terrorists. It seems a straight forward question to me, especially in light of the Indian bombings.

[slipslidingaway]

30. You forgot the second part of her question...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/PressConferencebythePresident/

"...All right, Helen. This is my inaugural moment here. (Laughter.) I'm really excited.

Q Mr. President, do you think that Pakistan are maintaining the safe havens in Afghanistan for these so-called terrorists? And also, do you know of any country in the Middle East that has nuclear weapons?..."


Listen for yourself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVGWdLsAoBA


I guess anyone who heard the second part of the question is a right wing loonie.

:eyes:


Her follow up question was hard to hear, but basically she asked why we, the US, picks who has nuclear weapons and that was ignored.

[Mr. Sparkle]

28. double post. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Apparently, only American politicians are unaware of Israel's nukes.

But, they are hyper-aware of a "possible" threat of Iranian nukes.

"In . . . politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing." - Mark Twain

[BlueMTexpat]

62. Yes, that "selective awareness" is troubling in itself ...

and does our country's interests no good whatsoever in the global sphere.

Good quote!

:toast:

[truedelphi]

34. K & R and the last URL in my sig line tells the whole

Story of how much we keep hidden.

[4 t 4]

35. Welcome back Helen

we sure need you and the questions you ask. Thanks for all you've done. We love you

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Nah, it was a bunch of nonsense.

[ThomWV]

37. Israel has no ability to build its own nuclear weapons - so where do they come from

The entire country of Israel is not big enough to contain the industry necessary to make the materials required for a nuclear weapon. This is not something that can be argued about - they simply do not have enough space in which to have done it. That means that the weapons they do have came from somewhere else. France, Russia, or the USA.

[Tesha]

70. I correct you last night, but you still spout this lie. Israel has full nuclear capabilities. (NT)

[Dinger]

38. I Love Helen!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

39. It was one of the most important questions of the night.

IMO.

Leave it to Helen to cut straight to the chase. :loveya:

[Uzybone]

42. It was a stupid wasted question

I think it is funny how people praise reporters for asking questions they know will not get answered. The job of a reporter is to get us information, not to grandstand with useless questions. We all know Israel has nukes. How did this question add anything to the discourse?

[Two Americas]

43. that is great

Only questions that politicians want to answer should be asked? Reporters should try to guess what questions might make the politician uncomfortable head of time, and self-censor and steer clear of those areas?

[4 t 4]

45. spot on

she was looking for his reaction on the topic. I bet her IQ is much higher then most of us here she knows what she is doing lay off her.

[Uzybone]

58. I didn't say questions they WANT to answer

you are making shit up. I said ask questions that will get answered. Any one can ask questions that can be easily ignored.

Everyone knows Israel has nukes, she should have started her question with that fact and build from there.

[Two Americas]

61. how could they know that?

It is not unreasonable to assume that questions politicians do not answer are questions that they do not wish to answer, is it not? And no answer IS an answer.

If "everyone knows Israel has nukes" then why the reluctance on the part of politicians to simply say that? Starting the question with "everyone knows Israel has nukes" would have been more confrontational, and I am certain that would have caused more uproar from people here. We would hear complaints that she had asked a "gotcha" question, and her carcass would now be thoroughly embedded in the undercarriage of the proverbial bus, if it is not already.

[Shakespeare]

44. If reporters only asked questions they knew they'd get direct answers to.....

....we wouldn't have a free press. That may be one of the most asinine statements I've seen on DU in awhile. As somebody who used to work as a newspaper reporter, let me assure you that the unanswered question--especially a well-phrased one like Thomas asked--can say volumes more than all the regurgitated, comfortably answered questions in the world.

[AntiFascist]

46. Uhhhhhhhhh, maybe because...

it brings the issue to light for the American public, which is often kept in the dark?

[ThomWV]

47. This is the most short-sighted comment I've ever seen posted on DU

And almost childish in its stupididty. Did you not read the initial post?

[zipplewrath]

49. That's a tad harsh

The guy could have expressed himself better, but I understand his basic point. The original posters point not withstanding, that question isn't/couldn't/shouldn't be answered in that context at that time. That's an answer that would have to be coordinated through the State Department. Yes, the original posters point is well taken, that until Obama CAN make that statement, there is a real problem in middle east relations. And really, THAT is the question that Helen could have asked. "I understand that you can't discuss Israel's nuclear weapon capability, but can we move forward in a middle east peace process in which we can't admit fundamental realities of the situation?"

Asking tough question is fine. And in some situations it really isn't known if the person won't or can't answer. So you take your shot. But the truly tough question is one that the person CAN answer, even if they don't want to.

[Uzybone]

55. Exactly

thanks for getting at what I was trying to say.

If the point of her question was to bring the issue to the publics attention, then she thoroughly failed.

[OwnedByFerrets]

50. This was a stupid wasted post.

:P

[aquart]

51. It wasn't wasted. She made her point.

She also knew there would be no admission about Israel. Nor should there be. A direct admission would force the Arab states into direct action AND NOBODY WANTS THAT.

Well, some idiots do, but so far they're being properly ignored.

[Uzybone]

54. I know Helen is a sacred cow to many

But I don't see what could be gained by asking questions that she knows will not be answered. The extremist on the left love to stroke themselves by saying the "ask the important questions" but in reality nothing is accomplished. No one outside their small extreme circle is talking about Obamas failure to answer a stupid question because we all know Israel has nukes. Her question could have been worded much better, made the point and forced President Obama to not so easily gloss over it.


Anyways, thanks for disagreeing without throwing in ad hominen attacks. I appreciate it.

[Two Americas]

63. there we go

Now we will hear that Helen has a "cult-like following" so everything she says should be dismissed and we should see her as the enemy with a covert agenda.

"Extremists on the Left?" Is that who the enemy is in your mind? Do you really think there is any such thing in this country?

[Uzybone]

64. You sure are deep in the business of putting words in people mouths

good luck to you.

[Ichingcarpenter]

72. 'Helen is a sacred cow''

''''I know Helen is a sacred cow to many....

But I don't see what could be gained by asking questions that she knows will not be answered. 'The extremist on the left'.....'love to stroke themselves''.... by saying the .."ask the important questions" but in reality nothing is accomplished..... ''No one outside their small extreme circle''.... is talking about Obamas failure to answer'' a ....''stupid question'''... ''because ''we all know'' Israel has nukes. Her question could have been worded much better, made the point and forced President Obama to not so easily gloss over it.

Talk about ad hominem attacks and using of bare assertion fallacies.
There is enough in your paragraph that precludes any relevance of legitimacy

[Ichingcarpenter]

71. For the question having no meaning or relevance it sure did generate

Discussions on the internet, radio and blogs

[Zhade]

96. What's "extremist" about wanting the truth to be clear?

Nothing.

[scarletwoman]

102. In a world of lies, exposing the truth is a radical act. (nt)

[Zhade]

94. Nor should there be? Are you kidding me?

People bang on and on about Iran using nukes IT DOESN'T POSSESS to attack the country that LIES about not having them, and we shouldn't be concerned with the truth?

Fucking asinine!

[wroberts189]

97. Thank you ....And she spoke THE TRUTH

Funny how many do not like the truth... condemning it be spoken.


If they could just see the big picture....It would "set them free"

[Mongooseflies]

67. yeah and the A-Roid question

was really worth wasting our presidents time too....

[scarletwoman]

81. Not wasted at all. Obama's dodging of the question was very informative.

Helen knows the art of asking the correct question. Asking the correct question reveals the truth. Questions are far more important than answers.

"How did this question add anything to the discourse?"

Obviously, it's added quite a bit. I'm sure this thread isn't the only place on the intertubes discussing Helen's question.

sw

[fascisthunter]

82. I Disagree... The Unanswered Question Exposes the Truth

much louder than an answered question might. She did her job well...

[tekisui]

88. "The job of a reporter is to get us information" And, we got some.

We got the information that Obama is unwilling to tell an easy truth. That speaks volumes in regards to this issue.

[OwnedByFerrets]

48. So very very true

[JuniperLea]

52. Bravery is contagious!

It's time for a lot of people to speak up and tell all the truth they know, on a lot of issues.

[anonymous171]

53. Interventionists made it this way. Let the ME go to hell. I would love a huge war there.

The far RW likud people want it, Hamas wants it, some other countries in that area want it, so why not let them do it? It would solve a whole shitload of problems. We just need to withdraw all support for everyone there.

[Jim Sagle]

56. The blunt truth is that if Israel didn't have those nukes, Israel and its people would be dead.

For anyone who ACTUALLY wants the truth.

[anonymous171]

57. If they use the nukes, everyone is dead as well.

That place is full of crazies (on both sides.) I would not trust any country in the ME (including Israel) with a nuclear bomb.

[Jim Sagle]

74. They've had their nukes for quite some time, and never used them.

Best reoord of any nation on Earth.

[fascisthunter]

83. no shit.... and most of it is over the differences of religion itself

nuts

[anonymous171]

85. I think that the whole conflict has evolved past a religious one.

It started that way, but it evolved into a land war. Or maybe it was the other way around and you are right. Either way, both sides are insane. We should get out of there and let them go at it. That's what they want to do.

[fascisthunter]

86. Yes.. I Agree with. It started with Religion but today...

it's much more complicated than the way I just characterized it.

We do need to get out of there... I'm ashamed at how this country has had a hand in it all already. It's time for America to deal with America... we have enough of our own crazy shit to deal with.

Also... this is why I will never understand why people would support the dismissal of our Separation between Church and State. There are very good examples to chose from history, which show why mixing Religion with State is a very bad thing to do.

[jgraz]

59. We're not talking about the wisdom of them *having* nukes. This is about speaking the truth.

What do you think will happen if the US actually admits that Israel is a nuclear power?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. So, you're saying they DO have nuclear weapons. Why can't our politicians say it? nt

[scarletwoman]

100. Then why can't it be spoken of? You talk about "the truth" -- why is "the truth" covered up?

Why won't U.S. politicians acknowledge that Israel has nukes? Why won't Israel acknowledge it? Why is it forbidden to speak of it?

sw

[earth mom]

60. K & R for Truth.

:kick:

[Mongooseflies]

66. Thats EXACTLY what I thought

She was testing to see if he had the balls to speak the truth...
He either doesn't or that country has something on us that many previous administrations have gotten on their knees over

:rant:

[varelse]

76. That's a real journalist in action

:kick:
Asking the tough questions, no matter who is in power. Go Helen :)

[G_j]

78. and everyone who does know the truth, knows the lies

so who is anyone fooling?
Those that don't know. And with the media's help, they remain in the dark.

[scarletwoman]

103. "...everyone who does know the truth, knows the lies" -- Wow, that's SO right on!

I'm so sick of lies...

sw

[MellowDem]

79. How did the US come to this??

How about AIPAC.

Or how about our idiotic stance with Cuba, how did the US come to it? A small group of Cubans in Miami.

Behold the might of special interests. BEHOLD!!!!!

[Orwellian_Ghost]

80. K&R

http://www.cdi.org/nuclear/database/nukestab.html

[scarletwoman]

84. Thank you. I was totally amazed to log on tonight and find this thread on the front page.

I think it's only the 3rd time ever for me. :D

Thanks for the link.

sw

[wroberts189]

89. once in a while you can really nail it good and people see it

and it resonates across DU


I only got one ......made it second to the top of the greatest.

Its a good boost to the ego and I donated 50 bucks to DU for my recs.

[scarletwoman]

104. What's gratifying is seeing a good discussion generated. It has nothing to do with me personally. nt

[wroberts189]

92. btw my impression is Helen is very well liked around here . nt

[wroberts189]

87. Helen: You are a national treasure ..knr

[Zhade]

90. I knew he was going to dodge it. If I weren't expecting such weaseling, I'd be disappointed.

Btw, Mordecai Vanunu is a hero.

[wroberts189]

95. Just one more kick for Helen. That quote will be written into History. nt

[SalmonChantedEvening]

98. Mighty Punt!! Rec!!

:kick: :hi:

[scarletwoman]

101. Thank you, love!

:D :hi:

sw

[wroberts189]

99. This is one of those posts you want to rec twice. Another kick for Helen. nt

[yellowwood]

108. Transparency Needed on this Issue

Someone asked, "How did this question add anything to the discourse?"

For Obama:
Not to answer--
Is to answer

[G_j]

109. K