Get Ready For Digital TV Mayhem...Starting Next Week

[KharmaTrain]

Yes, the official "flash-over" or date when all analog TV stations must sign off has been moved to June 17th, but that won't be stopping some stations from turning off their analog next Tuesday...still going with the long-planned February 17th change-over.

As was predicted...moving the date would create a lot more confusion than solve problems as some folks may see their old TV as worthless next week, some cities will have some stations that will some stations that change, others that will wait. The largest markets will still keep their analogs up and going til June, but if you're in a smaller market, be prepared, the switch could happen your way next week.

Here is a list of the current status of whose changing and who isn't. It's a XLS spreadsheet, but the most up-to-date information on the anticipated change date for every station in the country.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.xls

The reason some will be changing next week is the high costs of maintaining the older analog transmitters (a tube costs $50k) and many have contracted to have their antennas and transmitters upgraded and the delay would cost even more money.

So get ready, our government has again found ways to make things worse by trying to "improve" them.

Discuss....

[bunnies]

1. We have one tv connected to cable directly into the wall...

and we're already getting blue screens telling us that certain channels are moving to digital. But you know what really pisses me off about the whole thing? Comcast moved MSNBC to channel 246 (or something like that) so we no longer get it on the tv without the digital box - but on the tv WITH the digital box, MSNBC is STILL on channel 40 (as well as channel 246). WTF?!

[KharmaTrain]

2. That's Being Screwed Comcastic Style...

The DTV change-over has little to do with cable, but they're making the most of it. Those changes are being made by Comcast...to get you and others to "upgrade" to the digital service that costs upwards of $100 a month. Nice money if you've got it...many don't.

I'm hoping that one day, when there's not 500 other fires to put out, there's a push for "ala-carte" cable...where you can pick and choose the channels you want to pay for and not the rest. The cable industry dreads that day.

Cheers...

[bunnies]

5. yep.

Its ridiculous. We already have the digital service - but only one box. I suppose we're going to have to break down and get another one. Uh. It pisses me off. :grr: You know, we dont even get any of the premium channels... and the cost is already absurd.

I'm so sick of comcast. :nuke:

[KharmaTrain]

7. Check Out The Wireless House TV systems...

This will let you run your cable box on all teevees around the house without having to fork over an extra monthly charge. While it's not ideal, its a cheaper way to watch those channels on other sets.

[Kalyke]

20. Hey... that sounds cool.

Got a link to some? Maybe the manufacturers names so I can look them up?

[KharmaTrain]

22. Here Ya Go...

Just Google Wireless Cable TV and there's a bunch of companies..

Here's one that's typical...and only $50...

http://www.x10.com/promotions/wireless_video_sender_vk82a.html

Cheers...

[bunnies]

29. I didnt even know there was such a thing!

I'll definitely check it out. Thanks. :yourock:

[remoulade]

35. It's even cheaper if you don't mind stringing a little wire.

That and a 2-3 or more-way splitter will do the same thing for the price of a six pack. :D

[pnutbutr]

3. don't get strong enough digital signal

where I live so whenever the switchover happens, no more TV for me unless I want to build a massive tower to replace my rooftop antenna. Can't get cable or fios even though they have been within a 1/4 mile for 4 years. Not enough houses on my street to justify it apparently. Sat companies severely pissed me off in the past so I refuse to use them. Maybe I'll fix the old stand up radio in the shed and pretend it's the 30's again.

[KharmaTrain]

4. Hopefully This Change Over Will Help The Reception

Most digital signals are at a low power or their antennas aren't as high as the analogs (one of the major cost these stations have to pay)...thus that's probably why you're having troubles getting good reception right now. In theory, the digital signals are stronger than the analog ones...the trick is they are also very directional, thus if your antenna isn't pointed directly at the station, you may not get a picture. I have an old Radio Shack "bowtie" antenna with a 15db antenna amplifier ($40 at Radio Shack) on my teevee...about 45 miles from the transmitter and I get all but one station...and that one is supposed to upgrade.

Probably your best best is your puter...sites like blinko and others will fill the void for those who need their TV fix and can't get a decent signal.

[pnutbutr]

10. if only it were that easy

signal loss in the mountains here is why I can't pick up the signal and my current stations are snowy 90% of the time. I have a good roof top antenna, it just isn't enough and never will be. I've done a lot of research. As for internet TV....not with dialup. :(

[KharmaTrain]

12. As You Know That's A Perenial Problem...

I've been reading of new generation digital repeaters that will be coming online...replacing obsolete analog ones and putting them up in places that didn't have repeaters before to cover up the holes. But I know the problem you face...digital TV isn't as forgiving as analog...either you get the signal (usually about 60% "locks" in a picture) or there's nothing. Unfortunately broadcasting isn't a "utility"...maybe it should be...at least as far as cable and satellite so that prices are more affordable, service better and the companies more accountable. But I also like to dream alot.

Best of luck...but then, with the current state of teevee, is this that much of a loss????

[mwooldri]

15. The wonderful life of a "market forces" driven broadcast system :(

There is a reason that the UK (remember it's smaller than NC and SC combined)... has 49 main transmission stations and over 1000 translators for the whole country. Broadcasters were kinda forced sometime between 1960 and 1980 to ensure that even small isolated communities stuck in a mountain valley could receive all the broadcast networks. Even with the transition to digital, all these translators are being upgraded to digital, though the bummer is that they won't get all channels on the translators, just the public service ones. But even that's a vast improvement on just 4 analog channels.

They even thought about it and put the broadcast networks on a free-to-view, no-need-to-subscribe satellite TV service. (freesat). That forced the pay-tv satellite company (Sky) to roll out its own subscription-less satellite service.

There is the small matter of the TV licence fee but given what the BBC pumps out, it's worth it (in my case just for CBeebies and BBC News Channel).

Your future lies in satellite. Dish Network will do locals only for $5/month. That's provided you're in a location that can see the satellite. Yes, there are mountain areas that can't see the birds and are woefully underserved by translators - just take Cherokee, NC - it's literally in a hole. FM is a joke, the best signal in town is the tourist information station. Cable is kind of required there, as the mountains do block the southern sky... but XM manages to get through OK though.

Mark.

[LiberalFighter]

19. That is what I was communicated recently. Signal is suppose to be much stronger

when they convert over. Strong enough within a 60 mile radius. I am maybe 6 miles from their antennas and have trouble with all but one station. I had considered having a real outdoor antenna installed but will wait until the switch-over.

[KharmaTrain]

26. Analogs Get The "Right Of Way"

All digital channels operate on a different "physical" channel than the analog. For example our ABC is Channel 7 but it's digital is on Channel 52. Many of these channels have to avoid interfering with existing analog channels (putting nasty lines across the screen) and thus have been operating at low power or temporary channels. The "flash-over" would mean the digitals getting the priority and from my guestimate it would mean a signal increase for at least 2/3rds of the stations.

Seems the biggest problem aren't the stations as much as the poor quality converter boxes and antennas. For years, the only way you could get a DTV set was to fork over $2Gs for a wide screen. It wasn't until the last 6 months they rushed to get boxes and smaller and less expensive sets on the market. The broadcasters are getting the shaft here.

[Statistical]

17. Many TV stations have been running the digital signal at reduced power.

Most run at the absolute minimum required by the FCC.

So while the Analog may be a 87,000 watt transmitter the digital channel may only be 1500 watt.
Also many digital towers are temporary, shorter, or not optimally designed for the task.

All of this is cost cutting measures because the FCC forced the stations to run two transmissions for almost 2 years now.

The original goal was in Feb analog would turn off. The stations would move the digital to the main transmission tower and FINALLY begin to transmit at full power from the higher tower. Some stations are even moving to their older VHF frequency after analog shuts off which deals with range and multipath much better than UHF.

Bad news is for most markets all that has been put on hold until June.

You will not know how good/bad your DTV reception will be until:
1) the station shuts off analog
2) the station moves DTV to it's final assigned frequency
3) the station broadcasts DTV at full power
4) the station broadcasts DTV from full height tower

All Congress did is delay that process 5 months.

[guitar man]

28. exactly

Also, repeater/translator stations need to be switched over too.

When people find out I work for a TV station, I always hear the refrain of "digital sucks". I have had to patiently try and explain what you have listed above more times than I can count. Until the full power analogs shut down and "clear the air" for digital, we will not know how good or bad it is actually going to be.

[cornermouse]

6. I don't suppose it's too much to hope

that their ad sales will drop when they convert prematurely?

[KharmaTrain]

8. Doubtful...

This change only affects about 10% of teevee viewers...and most cable systems are already using the digital signals. The collapsing economy is a bigger problem right now...when people don't buy, advertisers don't spend. If anything, DTV will give those stations more chances to make money as they will be able to transmit several channels at once, not just one.

[CBGLuthier]

9. Yes, actually, it is too much to hope for

Why should we wish any company to fail in these economic times? Because some yahoos haven't been paying attention?

[guitar man]

30. why would you hope for that?

A lot of stations have run completely out of money and into the red due to the massive expense of this transition. Many of the stations that are shutting down analog are probably doing so to avoid having to lay people off among other considerations. Expiring tower and site leases, expiring analog licenses and a host of other issues may be the deciding factors for any given station to stay on or shut off.

Stations aren't applying for and shutting down on 2-17 just to be "mean". A lot of us budgeted and planned for the 2-17 shutdown when the date was announced and trying to do otherwise is like trying to turn a battleship on a dime.

[cornermouse]

34. Amazing.

Absolutely amazing. Not just you but all three of you. Mischaracterization or misrepresentation of what I said, taking the corporate position, assuming everyone either has cable or lives in large cities where station signals are more plentiful and easier to get, claiming to be more deserving than people with less, basically kicking poor people out of the system. Amazing.

[rsmith6621]

11. Didnt Obama Want The Delay

...??????????

[KharmaTrain]

13. Yes...Complaints From Minority Groups...

The coupon program was a disaster and many who applied for the rebates are now waiting weeks to get them. Most of these people are in inner cities and thus the outcry from some groups that the poorest will be left without TV. Truth be known, that's not entirely true as there still will be some low power stations still allowed to stay on the air (many that target ethnic communities), but he reacted to groups like the CBC that pushed hard for the delay.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. The digital tuner things aren't available around here

My landlady went to get one, and couldn't find any. So that could be another thing added to the mix. Frankly, I rarely watch TV, and I think this change will probably mean I watch it even less, even if I'm able to get the digital tuner. Interestingly enough, my PBS and major network stations aren't switching yet.

[mwooldri]

16. Oddly enough my local WorstBuy has tons of them on the floor.

They can't get them out the door here. Walmart doesn't have the obscene displays that WorstBuy has but what they have in store is the inferior Magnavox box... the slightly better RCA ones are in short supply.

Mark.

[schmear happens]

32. I bought a Magnavox from Kmart (Wallie World was out)...Why is it 'inferior?'

I went for the better price, but I didn't see anything so earthshatteringly great about the one priced ten bucks higher. Do tell...

[guitar man]

33. The magnavox

The magnavox box I tested had a decent picture, but I thought the audio sucked. It was noisy and lacked clarity. I've also heard numerous complaints about them overheating too, so be sure that you have your box where it can get good ventilation. The RCA that Wally World and Kmart carry for ten bucks more isn't all that great either, I have one of those.

My two favorites so far are the Zenith/Insignia (identical except for brand name) for $60 and the DTV Pal branded by Dish Network for $40.

[mwooldri]

36. The RCA one Wal-Mart sells vs the Magnavox one: bottom line: features.

Technically they're both OK and given a certain signal, both boxes can pick up the same number of channels.

But feature-wise the RCA is superior on these counts:

1) the RCA allows for analog signal loop through: you might be in an area where low-powered TV stations still exist that will continue on analog. The Magnavox doesn't allow for signal loop through; the RCA does.
2) the RCA's remote can control the TV as well as the converter box, thus eliminating the need to have two remotes to control the TVs basic functions.
3) the RCA to me has a better on screen guide - if the TV stations are bothering to broadcast one.
4) the RCA has a far better signal strength meter - crucial if you're aiming your antenna.
5) the RCA has basic functions on the box so if you lose the remote you're not totally out of luck. Lose the Magnavox remote, start hunting for it, cos you're not changing channels without it.

Funnily enough, both the RCA and the Magnavox boxes were the same price at Walmart.

[NNN0LHI]

18. I can remember when we switched from tube radios to transistor radios

I hated those things. Too damn small. I kept losing them.

And I really miss the delay before I could listen to the car radio while waiting for the tubes to heat up. I like suspense.

Cheers ...

:P

Don

[KharmaTrain]

21. Actually These Changes Have Happened Before...

In the 20's, the beloved Herbert Hoover reorganized the chaotic radio dial and in one day ordered a ton of stations off the air and on one day ordered the others to move to new dial positions. Then the FCC did it again in 1941. We survived. I don't read about those days in my history books.

In the 40's, RCA and David Sarnoff was feuding with Edwin Armstrong, the inventor of FM. Armstrong had invested a lot of money in the first stations, Sarnoff used his political muscle and had the FM band moved making all of Armstrong's radios obsolete and delaying the growth of FM for 30 years. Armstrong would get so depressed he committed suicide.

Hey, I've got one of those old tube jobbies...vintage 1938...still works like a champ. Kinda fun to hear Green Day or some rapper come pouring out of it.

Cheers...

[NNN0LHI]

23. And I bet you won't ever lose that tube powered boat anchor either

As I recall even the smaller table-top tube models were roughly the size of a micro-wave oven.

Thats another thing. Micro-wave ovens. I can remember when those things first came out. Expensive as hell and they were some huge and heavy mam-ma jam-mas too. I bet they weighed about a hundred pounds. We wanted one but didn't have no place to put it.

When they downsized them my mother finally got one and put it in her utility room.

Man those were the days.

Don

[KharmaTrain]

24. Here's My Little Baby...

You can just imagine the family curled up around the thing listening to FDR...even has a green tuning eye. The radio stands about 4 feet tall.

In storeage I kept my parents first 1960 RCA Color TV...Woodgrain cabinet...weighs a ton, but that was the set I grew up watching. I just couldn't let go of that part of my inner child.

I remember the first microwave I saw in the early 70's...a local hot dog joint and they promoted how they could nuke a dog in 30 seconds.

Now the new generation gap. If you can remember having to actually change the channel on the set, you're "old school".

Cheers...

[NNN0LHI]

25. Man that sure is a beauty

We never had a remote control on any of the TVs we had when I was growing up.

We still used to wear out the tuner on them switching channels. Thats the first thing the TV repairman went to when he came over to fix it. Started spraying stuff on that thing and adjusting stuff on it soon as he got there.

Wore the tuner out and I think we only had 2 or 3 channels to choose from.

The we got UHF and we were in high cotton.

Man watching Twilight Zone for the first time was really something. And the Vikings. Remember the Tales of The Vikings TV show? Man that was a violent show for its time.

Don

[KharmaTrain]

27. Remember The Space Command???

My uncle had a set with one of these beauties...



I would sit in front of the set just clicking the damn thing and getting off on watching the channel change. Cheap thrills have always been my life. :rofl:

My pet peeve was the rolling screen. The set would get old and the picture would get all scrunged up and never kept a straight picture. Or as the set got warmer, the picture would get smaller and smaller.

Heck, I was my father's remote control for 20 years...he hit me on the head and told me what channel to change it to. :rofl:

I've spend most the past decade trying to explain 60s TV to my kids...just shrug and say, that's all we had to watch.

[KoKo]

37. That's a beauty ....and lol's

I am one who "remembers." :D It's amazing some of us are still sane, isn't it?

[schmear happens]

31. I used my coupon by the deadline (mine was in late December)

and dragged my feet sending away for it in the first place. I thought I could get a better deal and not have to pay anything for the box (I had to shell out $10). So it's a little hard to feel sorry for those who also procrastinated.

(And is it sooo horrific to go without tv?)