Why "Evil" Du-ers MUST Criticize Dems

[placton]

The voices on DU to "hush" and "wait" regarding any criticism of Dems (from The Prez on down) are fine - we need debate. But unless we hold the Dems feet to the fire, we are - screwed.

We have been RIGHT for the last 8 years - and still are.

We "naysayers" said bi-partisanship was a joke - and now even Rahm E admits we were...RIGHT - why didn't they listen to us?

We "naysayers" said Geithner's 2 trillion dollar giveaway to insolvent (or worse) Wall Streeters was a joke - and now even Dems and the markets are laughing out loud at his idiot plan (or outline, or whatever) - which shows were were AND ARE...RIGHT - why won't they listen to us?

On the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and on us americans at home (drugs, torture, wiretapping, on and on), we "naysayers" said to end them - and WE are...RIGHT - why don't they listen to us?

The bankruptcy bill of 2005, and many other examples - we were right - why don't they listen to us?

Let's face it - The Prez and his folks are, at best, lukewarm about what we want AND WHAT THIS NATION NEEDS - always have been. Obama is a great communicator, smart as a whip - but that is not enough.

Unless we here, and millions like us, begin to stand up for what is RIGHT - and not wait and see - as the country did the last 8 years - we will go down a parallel path to the last 8 years. A little better perhaps, but not much.

There is too much at stake - this is our country - not Obama's or the Dems'.

Time to get it RIGHT - and if we don't, look for a dictator to be what the nation seeks out.

As is always the case, Greenwald says it better than I do.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/13-3

[NJmaverick]

1. thank you for today's laugh

:rofl:

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. What do you find amusing about that?

Does the OP have any of the facts wrong?

[NJmaverick]

5. I couldn't find anything that I would feel comfortable listing as correct

which I figured would be the shorter list

[placton]

You see

when you give your "opinion" as "facts," you fail to distinguish the two - and come off looking...snarky? not too bright?

[NJmaverick]

10. LOL! Thanks for the second laugh of the day!

:rofl:

I think you might have a future in stand up

[FiveGoodMen]

14. There's just no expressing how much I hate when some fuckhead

can't make his point but ridicules anyway.

Fuck those people. (Yes, you)

[NJmaverick]

15. oh noes!

:scared: :cry:
































:rofl: you guys are killing me!

[mitchtv]

26. so then

cremation or embalming fluid/burial?

[Occam Bandage]

12. Your "opinions" are stickily lies!!!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Should we infer, then, that the opposite of all those listed points is correct?

"We "naysayers" said bi-partisanship was a joke"
-- So the republicans have been acting in a truly bipartisan manner?

"We "naysayers" said Geithner's 2 trillion dollar giveaway to insolvent (or worse) Wall Streeters was a joke"
-- So the banks have been acting responsibly, and are handling the bailout funds in a prudent, transparent way?

"On the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and on us americans at home (drugs, torture, wiretapping, on and on)"
-- So the invasion of Iraq and abandonment of the hunt for Bin Laden was the correct course? There is reasonable justification for the War on Pot Smokers? Torture is effective? Unwarranted wiretapping is a reasonable course? And on and on...

"The bankruptcy bill of 2005"
-- In the face of the imminent burst of the housing bubble (predicted for several years) it is only right to make it harder for people to declare bankruptcy?

"Time to get it RIGHT - and if we don't, look for a dictator to be what the nation seeks out."
-- If the half-assed Republican measures continue to fail, and we are plunged into a full-scale depression, you think it CAN'T happen here?

[NJmaverick]

20. You have no clue what "opposite" means

<<"We "naysayers" said bi-partisanship was a joke"
-- So the republicans have been acting in a truly bipartisan manner?>>

The opposite to that would be those that say bi-partisanship is a worth while endeavor.

<<"We "naysayers" said Geithner's 2 trillion dollar giveaway to insolvent (or worse) Wall Streeters was a joke"
-- So the banks have been acting responsibly, and are handling the bailout funds in a prudent, transparent way?>>

The opposite of this would be those that feel Geithner's trillion dollar efforts to stabilize the financial market is a good idea.

and so on and so on.....

It's amazing how many DUers don't have a clue how to think or post in an intellectually honest fashion.:eyes:

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. My gawd, the spinning makes me dizzy -

What does "bi-partisanship" mean?
It mean, of course, working with the other side.
The republicans cry about the lack of 'bipartisanship' from the Democrats, and then refuse to EVER FUCKING COMPROMISE THEIR OWN POSITIONS.
Bi-partisanship IS a joke, when only one side compromises.

The trillion dollar giveaway - let's put it in terms you might understand.
Your daughter runs up $10,000 on her credit card, then comes to you and says "I'm in real trouble - I can't pay off that $10,000!" So, to help her out YOU GIVE HER ANOTHER CREDIT CARD.
Giving the banks money without oversight or a plan IS a joke. Everybody that got money from Paulson should be cut off. And nobody should get another cent unless they can show a plan on HOW it is going to be used.
If there is any way out of this mess, it won't be through giving the people that got us INTO the mess more money to spend. They have already proved they don't know how to handle it.

I really do want to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, but half-measures are NOT going to cut it.

[NJmaverick]

23. lol! here's a quarter, buy yourself a clue

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[NNN0LHI]

34. Deleted message

Fooled ya didn't I?

Don

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. If Dems had listened to DUers for 8 years, they'd have done what Repubs are doing now.

And Republicans are taking a beating public opinion for doing it.

There would be no President Obama if DU had its way. There would be no Congressional majorities if DU had its way.

Whine, bitch, and moan all you want, but don't claim you've been right for 8 years. You weren't, at least not nearly as much as you were wrong. I'm thankful that this place isn't very influential.

[placton]

11. Examples, please? n/t

[Greyhound]

24. OIC, if the Democrats had fought and filibustered the wars, the giveaways for billionaires,

the spying, the disregard for the Constitution, the torture, the free-for-all on Wall Street, the murder of a city, the election fraud, and all the rest, we would have lost the last two elections as well as the preceding three?
I think your crystal ball needs a tune-up.:silly:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. I'm looking forward

to celebrating the one-month anniversary of PRESIDENT OBAMA taking office.

In the meantime, you might want to consider decaf. But I do enjoy your enthusiasm.

:toast:

[earth mom]

6. Agree with you 100%. All they are doing is maintaining the status quo.

The truth is: the people be damned. :grr:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

7. you could apply for a job in the administration?

[Taverner]

8. Doubling Unemployment benefits isn't exactly "keeping the status quo"

To me, that reeks to high heaven of smart, sound, LIBERAL policy

[placton]

9. as I said -

a little better, but not that much, eh?

[Taverner]

13. Dude, A LOT BETTER

53 weeks is 1 week over a year

That means, if necesarry, a person can be out of work for a year

Before it was 23 weeks, that's barely 5 months. In a bad economy, five months is nothing

Do you know how long Dems have been trying to do this, alongside the Minimum wage increase?

I have to ask some people, since I've read the stimulus and this is the most Keynesian, Liberal, worker-centric, FAMILY-centric, bill to clear congress in decades. Remember, Clinton mainly sat on his ass. He failed at any thing that helps the workers, like universal health care.

But this isn't good enough? What did you want, free candy? Free pie?

[SidneyCarton]

16. What do you really want man?

If the Obama Administration acted as Authoritarian and autocratic as the previous administration did, but fulfilled your policy goals would you find no fault with it?

Democracy means compromise, it means that one does not hear from only the grass roots who one agrees with. Sure we need to be mobilized, but we do not all stand in the same place on all the same issues, and we never will. Your demanding uniformity with your vision, or Mr. Greenwald's vision of "progressivism" is as wrong as the demand from others to silence all criticism. We disagree about what this nation needs, and how quickly the cure should be administered. You demand the right to disagree, well so do I, and I will tolerate silencing no more than you.

[placton]

18. Sid, you noticed

I encourage discussion in my post? The fact remains, we on the left - the real left, not the "slightly left centerites" must become active in our agenda - and stop enabling the right of center Dems (yep, I mean you Obama!) from their road to ruin.

[SidneyCarton]

19. Define "real left"

And then, see if your definition matches that of every other poster on this board, or every member of the Democratic Party.

Politics runs on a continuum, and ones position on it, determines what is left and what is right.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. The point is, the left is NOT being heard -

The measures being taken may help, if they are not too watered down, too little too late, but the fact of the matter is Obama is a centrist and he has a centrist administration which is already conceding too much to the right, which means, obviously, what we wind up with is center right.

We will NOT see the criminal banks nationalized, even on a very short term basis.
We will NOT see universal healthcare - as defined by the rest of the civilized world, single-payer government funded. Universal private health insurance will be a disaster.
We will NOT see the Military Industrial Complex reined in, or see our 750 foreign bases closed, even though there is no rational military reason for keeping them.
We will NOT see an end to the War on Drugs, which is keeping the US as the nation with the largest imprisoned population in the world - more even than the communist dictatorship in China which has nearly 4 times our population.

How is it that when the left demands to be heard, it is accused of SILENCING the center?

[Greyhound]

25. Because the "center" is the right with a milder facade, and works the same playbook.

There are two faces of the One True Party that rules this nation. Until we accept this and stand against it we will remain spectators in a global disaster.

And perhaps worse, if/when we do, the gloves will come off and the real ugly will begin.

[tblue37]

28. Frankly, I suspect that he is counting on us to apply enough pressure to give him

political cover to move left. FDR told his leftish supporters to MAKE him do the things he needed to do, because that was the only way he could do them.

I bet Obama is hoping there will be a consistent and powerful groundwell of public opinion that will make it necessary to do what he would like to do, but what can't be done without powerful public sentiment--evident public sentiment, not quiet or polite public sentiment--behind it.

[Beam Me Up]

29. Yes. And some of us are RIGHT about 9/11 being an 'inside job', too.

So long as we understand that what is meant by 'inside job' may have deep political dimensions and may not be obvious to anyone who has never looked beneath the surface. I don't know how long it is going to take for everyone else to figure it out -- and figure out what it MEANS in terms of our understanding of what we have become as a nation -- but we "conspiracy theorists" have it and have had it all along.

There are two great half-hour pod casts related to this subject.

One is a recent interview of architect Richard Gage: http://www.visibility911.com/downloads/mp3/WoF_020909_Gage_Shure.mp3">Download MP3

And the other is a talk by Peter Dale Scott, http://www.amazon.com/Road-11-Wealth-Empire-America/dp/0520237730">author of "The Road to 9/11: Wealth, Empire and the Future of America," given to The San Francisco Republican Round Table. His talk is entitled "Saving American Politics from the Present Two Party System." http://www.tucradio.org/090211_PD_Scott.mp3">Download MP3

Not to mention this transcript of an http://americanbuddhist.net/truth-deception-interview-kevin-ryan-9-11">American Buddhist Net interview with Kevin Ryan. Here is a brief excerpt:

ABN: Kevin, you have been a central figure in the 9/11 truth movement. What have you learned from that experience?

KR: The struggle for 9/11 truth has gone on now for over seven years, although I've been involved only since 2003. In that time I've learned a good deal about history and social inertia, and I've made some progress in my communications skills. Many people might think that speaking out publicly, against the wishes of authority like I did, risking one's career and public standing, can only be harmful to a person. But I've found that by showing that I was genuinely seeking a positive outcome, the opportunity to make such a sacrifice became a blessing. There were changes, of course, including a new job and moving to a new town, and a huge amount of work with my new "unpaid job", but it has been worth it. This is in part due to the fact that I've learned that there are many people in the world who feel as I do, that the events of 9/11 were paradoxically something of a gift to mankind. We don't all agree on the details, but in my view, 9/11 is a wake-up call that can be used for the purpose of realizing our own limitations, and thereby making adjustments to how we live and interact with each other, and how we prioritize the education of our children. Once we tap into this ongoing "inside job", we will have the power to make lasting positive change in our society.

ABN: Can you say more about what you mean by 9/11 being "something of a gift"? Do you mean that it has woken many people up to deeper levels of American political reality or something else?

KR: Yes, your point is correct but it is more than that. It's hard to see the positive in 9/11, and it became more difficult for me as I learned that the official story was not only false but that it was absurd, and that we had been deceived en masse. At first I subconsciously accepted the idea of "blowback" - that there were people who were so angry with us that they would do these incredibly violent things to make that anger known. It didn't occur to me that the terrorists just happened to live on the most strategically important lands in the world, and that overcoming our trillion dollar defenses would require much more than a few box cutters. But when I saw what happened as a result of 9/11, in the name of 9/11, the falsity of the official story and the need to investigate became more obvious. The reason 9/11 can be considered a gift is that so many people have been deceived for so long about what happened. This fact allows us to realize how such deception occurs, how the resulting self-deception can deeply affect our lives, and how it can go on for so long. So 9/11 has awoken us to deeper levels of political reality - deep politics as Peter Dale Scott says - but more importantly it can awaken us to awareness of our own deep psychology.

Edit to add link to Scott's book.

[FLAprogressive]

30. K&R

[bvar22]

31. We are also right about Single Payer Health Care.

Just say NO to Mandatory For Profit Health Insurance.

Pass it on.

Maybe Obama will hear us this time before it is too late.