A lot of the "economic meltdown" is deserved and has been coming for a long time

[specimenfred1984]

just as a lot of "the stimulus" is aimed correctly at who really needs it. Predatory banks need to go out of business, huge stores full of crap that are financed by corrupt banks need to go, electronic gadgets gone wild is a waste of time and money, deregulated energy, phone, etc...needs to go, POS cars owned by Cerberus can go, health care for profit needs to go, fraudulent insurance needs to go, building bombs and creating world tension so our bombs will sell needs to go, lying-ass corporate TV serves no one but themselves and needs to go, putting people in prisons for pot needs to go, greed-based Wall St and BS-ing economic colleges need to change and be regulated, the real-estate industry needs regulated and, last but not least, for the entire culture of corruption to change about 50,000 people need to be held accountable for their crimes across the entire spectrum of the U.S. economy.

Therein lies the problem, we're a corrupt country. Call it fascist, call it "toxic", call it whatever but 1 stimulus package is only the beginning of a very long road.

[glowing]

1. That's what I've said for a long time... We do things old.. its a new time

and a new way to think. What do we need, what do we want? What are the costs on our living space and other's? AND the corruption needs to go for us to begin working on the next era of our world... We are in era changing mode.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. The problem you are faced with under your conditions is mass unemployment

All of that nonsense has been employing millions of people in this country who otherwise would have nothing to do. As it is, there aren't enough jobs right now for everybody. What do you propose to do, start collective farms?

[specimenfred1984]

4. If possible, use your brain for a few seconds Mr. "Collective Farms"

Regulation and enforcement will employ people in every state in every industry. Universal health care would open new hospitals and Dr. offices everywhere and provide gov't agencies/jobs to run it. Limiting corporate expansion like Wal-Mart and Home Depot will create jobs for small businesses in every town in America. Letting poorly run car companies die creates opportunities for other car manufacturers to build better products consumers will actually buy. And, speaking of manufacturing, how about putting limits on outsourcing, further employing more Americans. Ever take a look at economic impact studies of high speed rail? It would create entire economic corridors throughout the U.S. and the world for that matter.

"Collective Farms" bull would be better translated into "buying local" which is a good idea as well, employing a lot more U.S. farmers who have been put out of business by scum like Monsanto who's seeds require the fertilizer they sell and further reduces seed-species proliferation. And then there's the idea of eco-friendly industries like solar but I'm sure I lost you around the 1st or 2nd sentence.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Use your brain, who's left to pay taxes to support universal health

care and millions of regulators? Shop keepers that used to work at wallmart & somehow found the money to start a business?

You are advocating a return to medieval agrarian life & there wouldn't be any money for any universal health anything, but you are the genius you'll figure it out.



Good luck & goodbye.

[Tsiyu]

9. You didn't even read what the poster said did you?

How are fuel efficient cars "medieval agrarian life?' Or high speed rails, or more modern hospitals?

So you're saying we have to keep supporting the purchase of wasteful crap or none of us will have jobs?

Think outside the box, friend.

What happens if an American decides to make high quality toys? And another decides to make affordable solar power? And another begins an empire creating clothing out of renewable resources like hemp? And another develops waste management that also creates energy?

Are you saying America is so lost, so under-achieving and so lazy that we can't make new industry that's better than the old? Easier on the environment? GOod to labor?

That we have to keep buying and selling cheap crap from China or we'll all be unemployed?

Maybe we live in two different Americas....

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. You have to have people with a lot of money to buy american made toys

and solar cars, masses of people that simply don't & will never exist. You are talking about an absurd economy that only exists the minds of utopian dreamers.

[Tsiyu]

13. if they don't exist

how will they support the existing system?

You're not making any sense at all.

Sorry, I'm trying to figure out where you're going with this but I can't see the way...

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. There is no existing system for american toys & electric cars that cost

too much. Case closed.

[Tsiyu]

17. We have no market and no future as a market?

Nobody's ever going to buy toys or fuel-efficient cars (I don't recall using the word "electric" hmmm make up shit much?)or anything but cheap Chinese crap in America for ever and ever?

That's bullshit right there.

If they aren't ever going to buy anything ever again, they aren't going to be here to support the system you're defending.

How's that going to work?

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. Sometimes, the box is there for a good reason.

Universal health care is a good idea not because it creates a bunch of jobs, but because it does the same work with fewer jobs. This is what is meant by "waste".

The OP would close all the "corrupt banks" megastores and the big three automakers but create opportunity for "small businesses" to thrive. Where I live, most small businesses get loans, buy cars and sell things to people who work. Maybe it works some other way at starfleet academy. :shrug:

We can make new industry which is better than the old. But old industry are the tools that we'll need to create the new.

The op is poorly thought-out utopian gibberish.

[Tsiyu]

14. Okie Dokie

I personally think all the economic utopian bullshit we were fed about real estate and investments and the economy was poorly thought out gibberish.

Maybe you still have something to lose.

Those of us who have lost it all are fed fucking up with the current system and all its corruption.

Maybe you aren't there yet.

It will hit you eventually.

[The_Casual_Observer]

16. It was & look what happened. But your bullshit is better, I take it,

[Tsiyu]

18. ...such a funny, cynical guy you are

And yes, what I'm saying is better.

Just one example: Saw a woman on TV last year who (with a college degree BTW) started a doll company making hand sewn dolls. No huge investment there, just started with scraps of cloth and buttons. She makes six figures selling those stupid little homemade American dolls. So SOMEBODY's buying dumbass bullshit toys for their kids.

She must have been lying but she seemed pretty happy.

"Look what happened." Indeed...

[DireStrike]

20. No, it's a good idea because it removes the profit incentive

The administrative jobs will be there. What will not?

-Health insurance executive pay. Now there is waste. We can get people to do the same job for 1/100th the cost.
-Health insurance company stock. Too bad though. The rich can find some other toy to play with and try to get money for nothing somewhere else. Perhaps investing in an industry that isn't useless and wasteful.

[DireStrike]

19. Who's left to pay taxes?

The rich, of course. They've been stealing money for 50 years. Time to give it back so we can rebuild society again, so they can suck it dry again.

[Thothmes]

24. Who supports the system, when the rich decide to take their

wealth and leave for the Bahamas or Ireland, or Dubai?

[DireStrike]

25. The rest of the people. We are screwed either way.

Better off letting the leeches leave.

[truedelphi]

5. Some guy on the "Green Channel" on cable is able to refurbish

Any make or model of car that has an owner who wants to go electric and green.

The technology is such that he can replace 92% of what is under a car's hood with just this slim limed briefcase shaped battery.

Right now it is pricey, but in less than 15 months he will be able to do many cars for
$ 1,000 and things like SUV's for $ 3,000.

So until every car is made "green" and electric, I would think that we should be able to employ quite a few people just doing that.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. I wonder what miracle is going to happen in 15 months that the big 3 has overlooked. Do you suppose

it might just require a lot of investment money between now & then?

[truedelphi]

8. If my understanding is correct, the stuff is in production, but not enough is getting

Out to mainstrem people like himself.

[indepat]

3. Proud to have bumped this thought-provoking rant to the greatest page

:P

[Raster]

11. Damned good rant! I'll heart you and recommend you!

The road is long...

Wake up America!:kick:We Can Do Better!

[DCKit]

21. K&R specimenfred2012!!!!

Best platform I've seen yet.

[leftstreet]

22. K&R

[agent46]

23. This seems appropriate right...about...

NOW

The Times They Are A-Changin'

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.