'Tebow bill' would let home school students play on public school teams

[The Straight Story]

'Tebow bill' would let home school students play on public school teams

Frankfort, Ky. — By RONNIE ELLIS

Frankfort, Ky. – Tim Tebow, last year’s Heisman Trophy winner and twice the quarterback of NCAA football championship teams at the University of Florida, never attended public schools. He was home-schooled but he played on high school football teams.

Now Sen. Jack Westwood, R-Crescent Springs, wants kids in Kentucky to have the same opportunity. He’s introduced a bill in the state Senate which would allow home-school students in Kentucky to participate in inter-scholastic sports at their local public schools.

Westwood said he filed the bill at the request “of a couple of people who asked me to” and said he’s optimistic about the bill’s chances. He cited the example of Tebow when saying he didn’t want to penalize children whose parents chose to home school them.

“This will give them the opportunity to take advantage of public school offerings despite the fact they’ve chosen to get an education at home,” Westwood said.

He said most criticism he’s heard has come from public school athletic officials who see the bill’s provisions as a way to recruit athletes. That’s why his bill would require such students to play only for schools in whose districts the students reside. And he said he’s considering amending the bill to require any student who leaves public schools for home schooling to wait a year before joining an athletic team.

http://www.news-tribune.net/statenews/kentuckystatehouse_story_023164749.html

[cobalt1999]

1. Home schooled or not, the parents pay the taxes.

Hard to deny their kids from using some of the what they are paying for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Why should they get to play if they don't want to participate as students?

Are public school programs now like menus in a restaurant?

"We'll take the football today, Sir."

Strikes me as odd at the least.

[cobalt1999]

10. It is odd.

Just can't see denying the kids the one thing that might get them out from under fundamentalist household parents.

[liberalhistorian]

29. Umm........not all home schooling parents are

fundies or even religious. A lot more non-fundie and non-religius parents are choosing homeschooling for reasons that have nothing to do with religion. It seems to me they should have the right to do so. I speak as the daughter of teachers who believe strongly in the public schools, as I do, but who also believed in the rights of parents to choose home schooling should they wish to do so. If "choice" is going to be one of our buzzwords, then we also must allow it when it comes to education.

[Dappleganger]

12. Because they pay taxes...

and the schools get $$ for them if they are on the sports teams.

We live in the same school district as Tebow and there are a number of HS students who are in extracurriculars or even part-time (labs, foreign language, calculus, etc.). This school district tends to be very HS-friendly (with good testing and accountability, too).

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. School districts receive state aid for athletes ??

Not in my neck of the country. And I would be very surprised if they do anywhere else either. State aid is for EDUCATION, not for sports.

[Bluebear]

26. I pay taxes too, doesn't mean I can play with the school football team

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Can I be on the cheerleading squad?

I always wanted to be a cheerleader. :)

[Bluebear]

36. As long as you pay taxes.

[KittyWampus]

40. are you a school age child? If so, it explains a lot.

[Bluebear]

69. New name, same sad, bitter, insulting persona.

[girl gone mad]

62. Why not?

Maybe they should be more like menus. Worth a try.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Because the state gives aid for kids who are ENROLLED in school

Why should some kids get to pick and choose at the local district's expense?

[girl gone mad]

83. Then get the policy changed.

Sounds like a better plan than denying educational opportunities to children.

[WatchWhatISay]

11. Does this mean they have access to all of the schools facilites and equipment too?

Books, computers, athletic facilities and equipment, proms, fieldtrips.

No. They don't attemd that school and they are not entitled to these things anymore than other students at other public schools are. They made a choice to attend a small school, they should live with it.

[liberalhistorian]

30. Exactly. They have as much right as

any other student in the district.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. No they don't since the district doesn't get aid for them unless they are a student

[madfloridian]

38. If they are not in public school, the district doesn't get money for them.

Not in our neck of the woods.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Not in any neck of the woods, madflo

Think about it. That just doesn't make any sense.

[madfloridian]

44. You are right.

It doesn't make sense at all.

[1]

48. wait. i don't have kids but i pay property taxes. are you saying my school district doesn't ...

get the money i pay in taxes?

i would be really pissed if that were the case. who does get my tax contribution?

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. School districts are paid per pupil

Per ENROLLED pupil. So no they don't get any money for kids who aren't enrolled.

[1]

58. wow. thanks. i never knew that. so my taxes go into a general fund or somesuch?

that sucks. my little community is so small and so poor. our property taxes here are whacked. but i always felt good that at least my property taxes were helping out the community schools (they are the largest part by far of my property tax bill.)

and now you tell me that isn't true.

that sucks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. Your property taxes go to your schools

and school districts also get state aid - that's per pupil.

[1]

61. ah, ok. i get it now. thank you... n/t.

[madfloridian]

55. The state allots money per student, unless it has changed.

Also daily attendance at one time figured in as well. Not sure of the formula now as I have been retired a while.

[misanthrope]

50. My taxes pay for lunches there...

...Does that mean I should be allowed to eat there whenever I want?

Teams represent their respective schools. If kids aren't students, why should they be on the team? If they allow this, what's to stop kids from going to whatever team they wish regardless of where they attend school?

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. And what if there is a No Pass No Play policy?

It wouldn't be fair to exclude players who are actually enrolled in the school while allowing players who are not.

[LSparkle]

16. Excellent point! Who determines what's a "pass"?

Do we take the word of the parent of a home-schooled
child that they're "passing" their classes and can
play in Friday night's big game? If a child is
particularly gifted in sports, I can see this as
an opportunity for the parent to encourage the
child in that area at the expense of their studies.

[SoCalDem]

17. Mom..n/t

[surrealAmerican]

84. Not only that, but enrolled students ...

... who may be having trouble academically, are going to have (or their parents will) a very compelling reason to homeschool in order to stay on the team.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Don't schools get funding per the warm classroom seat?

If so, it's just part of what home schoolers forfeit when they leave the system.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Yes

And no funding for athletes.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. I'm surprised this is an issue then. There is no basis other than

some misguided sense of charity why a school would go along with it.

[jazzjunkysue]

19. Only the state aid is determined by headcount. The taxes are already being paid.

If it's a district that depends heavily on state aid, then the absentee issue matters alot more. Some rural districts are really taking it on the chin, because they're denied this student's state aid, but are also giving a seat on the popular team to that student, denying it to a paying student.

Ouch.

Honestly, I can't understand why the football team is good enough for them, but the classrooms are not.

Is it really the whole socialization issue? If it is, they shouldn't be on the team.

If it's the education quality or course offerings, those could be supplimented at the local community college.

The parents who insist that their precious little ones can't tolerate being treated like a student, and have to be loved and stroked all day long make me gag.

They forget that there are so many things kids learn at school other than content. That's the least of what they learn.

Dealing with a less than perfect world, being primary.

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. If I had to sit at home all day looking at my mother I would have run away

& joined the proverbial circus. I didn't like being in the classroom very much, but I loved recess & lunchtime when you could play with the kids & do stuff.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. I had a friend who was homeschooling and she was mad that her kid couldn't take Science at school

She at least understood that she couldn't provide the lab equipment necessary for a comprehensive Science program.

But it blew my mind that she actually thought the school should let him come for one class, like the school was a department store. LOL

[Davis_X_Machina]

6. I'm surprised this wasn't the case before...

...I've had home-schoolers on chess and debate teams, and on newspaper staff, watched them perform in the student musical and straight play. They are in the district honors chorus and honors band.

We're under the same rules for eligibility as the school sports teams.

Seems to work o.k.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Well when Mom gives the grades, of course they are going to pass. LOL

But what about the cost of the activities? Do they charge the homeschoolers?

[Davis_X_Machina]

73. Can't charge theme extra -- they pay taxes...

...they pay the $15 per kid per activity per season fee like everyone else.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Home schoolers already participate on school teams here. I had no idea that wasn't the norm.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. It isn't done here

I have never heard of this before. And I have been teaching a long time. Here you either go to school or you don't. You can't just pick and choose what parts of the public education system you want to participate in.

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. Here homeschoolers have access to school things, including the building. I have heard of kids

coming in to use the labs for science class and so forth.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. Do they make them pay?

[GreenPartyVoter]

74. Not sure. They may count taxes as payment.

[msongs]

9. ya wanna be on the team go to the school. otherwise set up a team JUST for home schooled purists nt

[WatchWhatISay]

13. Amen!

[RB TexLa]

45. There is one here that plays in the private school leauge.

HSAA Eligibility Requirements

Academic Qualifications

A player must be homeschooled. "Homeschooled" means that a player must be receiving his or her primary educational direction through the home.

A player must be living at home with a parent or guardian.

A player is ineligible if that player is enrolled in more than 8 hours of dual-credit and/or college courses.

A player is ineligible if that player has gone through a homeschool, public school, or private school high school graduation ceremony prior to that season's first game.

A player must be passing all courses in order to participate in a contest or tournament. In performing the role of administrator for the homeschool, the parent is solely responsible for enforcing this rule.



SEASON

Practices begin in August (high school) and late September (middle school) with games typically scheduled from November through February. The Homeschool Christian Nationals Tournament in OKCity is typically mid-March. HSAA schedules games against area Private, Christian, and Parochial schools, as well as homeschool teams from other cities. HSAA does not create or sponsor spring/summer teams. In the past, players from HSAA teams have connected to form spring/summer teams, but HSAA does not involve itself in the arrangement and/or support of such teams.





PROGRAM COSTS

Basic Fee includes the HSAA Membership Fee (per sport/per participant), gymnasium rentals, tournament fees, training fees, equipment bag, practice shirt, and uniform use for one year. Fees do not include travel and hotel costs for out-of-town games and tournaments.



Team
2008-2009 Basic Fee

Varsity
$625

JV
$625

Middle School
$250


*Fundraisers may offset these costs.

http://www.hsaa.org/

[NeedleCast]

59. Sounds good to me

[sailor65]

14. We've been able to for a while

the kids have to play within their residential district, for the school their address assigns them to, and at the appropriate level.

[Howardx]

15. dump school sports entirely

why subsidize it for a tiny percentage of students when districts all over the US are thinking about laying off teachers?

[FLAprogressive]

34. because it keeps kids in school who may otherwise become disinterested and drop out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. But the homeschoolers have already dropped out

Now they want to drop back in. But only for football. :crazy:

[retread]

65. By this "logic" they could drop out and still play sports. n/t

[retread]

66. deleted

[slampoet]

77. They never cared that Computers, Band, Drama, and Debate kept me in school. Board cut 'em every time

And never mind that I have made more money in each of these fields than ALL the Sports people in my high school combined.


Keeping disinterested jocks in school is just a BS excuse.


NOBODY EVER cared what kept the smart/clever/creative kids in school and I am NOT talking about the honor roll crowd.

[vanderBeth]

18. They are already allowed to.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Not here

[vanderBeth]

72. Hmm, well I thought it was everywhere

Actually I agree with the sentiments that sports shouldn't be school sponsored. I didn't join any of the public schools teams. I played at the YMCA.

[MadHound]

22. Seems like a convenient way to bypass academic requirements

Star quarterback isn't making the grades, well next year he's homeschooled, miraculously makes the grades, and still gets to play.

Bad idea on many levels.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. First thing I thought of too

My dad was a high school coach for nearly 40 years. This strikes me as a very bad idea.

[YankmeCrankme]

33. So, should private school students be allowed to play sports at public schools?

After all, their parents pay taxes, too. I remember reading that public school districts are responsible for providing special ed needs for students in private schools if those schools are unable to provide it, which most of them can't because it's expensive. This is the equivalent of private companies that keep profit private but want losses underwritten by the public.

Can public school students play sports at private schools? You say, well they already have a team. Well, home school kids can sign up for football leagues and if none exist at the moment, start one. Should home schoolers be allowed to participate in public school band? Public school theatre? Use the public school wood shop?

I say allow them to play on public school teams when they allow public school students to get hot lunches from the home schoolers.

If you don't want your kid to participate in public school, fine, but all the rest that goes with the public school shouldn't be available either.

[trudyco]

35. bunch of public school snobs here ... there are a lot of ps that SUCK!

Anybody who has a kid that has to go through the IEP process for special ed services know what I'm talking about. The schools will fight you, they will lie, to avoid giving your kid an education.

My taxes paid for the building and the fields the sports are being practiced on. Any kid in the district, hell the whole state, who is homeschooled or private schooled should be allowed to use the facilities just like everybody else. I believe in nurturing ALL kids, not just the ones feeling smug for using Public School. It's about giving to the next generation. It isn't about passing judgement on parents for their education choices.

This sounds too much like the people with no kids or grown kids who grumble they have to pay taxes for schools. Selfish SOBs. Or the home schoolers who whine about paying taxes. It isn't a direct relation between their taxes and their kids. The taxes are for everybody's kids. Everybody's kids should benefit.

Not everybody homeschooled is a christian whacko. You can be liberal and still think public schools aren't worth subjecting your kids to. Not every kid thrives in public school, especially the ones with learning differences. Yet some could use the people skills developed by sports. Even christian whackos could use a little rubbing elbows with public school athletes.

So Puh-lease take your smugness elsewhere. All states should allow this.

[YankmeCrankme]

37. How about you take your holier than thou attitude else where.

I've no kids and I gladly pay taxes for public education. Not private, not home school education. If you don't like it too bad.

If you want your kids to use public school facilities than put them in public schools.

If you want to provide your kid a private or home schooled education and experience, keep them in private school or at home.

If public school classroom isn't good enough for you, why should the the extra curricular activities be? You don't want to use it, fine. But, it's not a buffet where you get to pick and choose.

If you can't support public education why should you be able to use only the parts you like? You don't think public schools are worth subjecting your kids to, but use of their better funded athletic programs is a-ok. What a hypocrite.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Talk about smugness

I am a special ed teacher and I could spend about the next hour and a half telling you how wrong you are about the IEP process.

But lucky for you, I am just not in the mood to do anything other than call YOU smug. :)

[sailor65]

47. Funny thing about teachers.....

they're the first ones to spend an hour or so telling you how wrong you are when their work is insufficient.

Unless you think all the special ed teachers everywhere are as incredibly awesome as you, you need to concede that the other poster may actually be having bad experiences, and that perhaps not all teachers are fantastic.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. So you slam teachers by painting us with a very broad brush

Nice!

[ulysses]

76. now, be nice.

He probably had a bad teacher somewhere along the line on whom he can blame his attitude (and probably much else in his life). ;-)

[sailor65]

81. On the whole,

I had good teachers. No real complaints. But back then there was no internet in the classroom to be used by the teacher every time a student had a question about the topic the teacher was currently teaching (Or in my son's teacher's case, copying from a book). Hence the reason for my "Attitude" about my son's teacher (Actually, 2 of them, Algebra and Biology). My teachers knew the answers before they attempted to teach the class.

Our district is well known for such problems, but like the Kansan teacher, you missed that point.

[sailor65]

79. Nice try,

but my brush was anything but broad. You were certainly more broad in responding to the other poster. How could you know what his/her teachers are like unless you work in that district?

[madfloridian]

57. I'm a retired teacher. Yes, I was very good.

You are arrogant.

[sailor65]

46. You are exactly right

same grueling IEP process with our 12-year old, and all the same problems you listed.

And my 15 year old is now home schooled because the ps he is tied to is academically defunct. Actually, 26 kids this year alone have been pulled out for the same reasons.

And here's the funny part; my son takes all the same tests, both district and standardized. And the reason I knew our kids could play for the local district is the football coach called him AFTER he had left. I'll give you three guesses why, but you'll only need one;

Turns out neither of his (Still in the public school) wide receivers was eligible to play because neither one could pass his classes. My son has to take all the tests as a requirement and guess what? He consistently outperforms the in-school kids.

And like you, I don't mind my taxes going for the other kids, but I will allow mine to benefit from them as well, since as you said my taxes fund everything just like everyone else's.

The problem is the idiotic prevailing attitude here on DU that the only reason people home school is because they are fundies. No one can seem to accept the fact that just like in any other profession, some teachers are just plain incompetent.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. And now it's time to bash teachers!

That always comes up in these homeschooling threads.

'We don't homeschool cause of Jesus! We do because the teachers are incompetent!'

[sailor65]

75. Don't take my word for it....

your retired colleague just made my point for me.

>>
Oh, yeh, I am a "public school snob"
I think that is what made America strong.

If they would fund the schools, HIRE GOOD TEACHERS, quit giving money to private religious schools....we could have that country back again.
<<

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5048470&mesg_id=5050164


I think the point you're missing is that your profession has its failures just like every other profession, and that sometimes those failures require action. Why is it that everybody thinks because many teachers are good thay they automatically ALL are good?

So I will continue to happily pay my taxes for the benefit of all, and toward the hope that your fellow teacher's wish comes true in our district.

[ProfessorGAC]

68. Take A Pill

You're WAY(!) off point here and have taken this discussion personal. You're the only way being arrogant, smug, and pompous on this thread. Now you're insulting people who are essentially your allies. Nice going.

GAC

[sailor65]

78. Assuming you responded to the correct message,

read the whole thread. It's the homeschool kids and parents who consistently get bashed in these threads. "Purists, Fundies," etc, even when our decisions have nothing to do with either one. Does the teaching profession think it's the only one without its share of poor performers?

I've never pushed for vouchers, never considered "Religious" private schools, and I dutifully contribute to the system that supports all the kids.

And the only people I've insulted are the aforementioned poor performers. My brush was very narrow.

[ProfessorGAC]

82. I Did Read The Whole Thread

That's how i stumbled upon your arrogant and insulting posts. You were WAY over the top and you insulted others on this thread just because they disagree with you.

Like i said: Nice going.
GAC

[madfloridian]

56. Oh, yeh, I am a "public school snob"

I think that is what made America strong.

If they would fund the schools, hire good teachers, quit giving money to private religious schools....we could have that country back again.

[girl gone mad]

63. Very well said. n/t

[ContinentalOp]

39. Awesome, I'm assuming I'll be able to join the Army band now too without having to enlist? -nt-

[girl gone mad]

64. Good.

All kids in the district should have access to the team sports, libraries and laboratories. That's how it works in my district.

[retread]

67. I'm moving to Arlington this summer, pay city taxes, and next fall

quarterback the Cowboys.

"The City of Arlington voted <11/2/2004> to increase the city sales tax in order to contribute $350,000,000 to the Dallas Cowboys' new stadium."

[JCMach1]

70. They have had this law in Florida for years

At least it gets these kids out and socializing!



And yes, homeschoolers do pay taxes, so why not.


I will it admit to my bias as a former HS Coach... The homeschoolers I had were usually of exceptional ability. For a large HS, we usual only had one or two students each year under this rule.

[Horse with no Name]

80. Athletics needs to be removed from the school system. Period.

Then, everyone can play, homeschool or otherwise.