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Glenn Greenwald on Obama and boxed in liberals: a counter-productive relationship

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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:58 AM
Original message
Glenn Greenwald on Obama and boxed in liberals: a counter-productive relationship
Edited on Sat Feb-14-09 11:47 AM by Karmadillo
He makes several points worth considering. Are some liberals devoted to Obama and not to ideas? Are some Left organizations withholding criticism of Obama for fear of losing money and members.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/02/13/pressure/index.html

<edit>

But Krugman's larger point is correct: Republican groups demand from politicians support for their beliefs. By contrast, as Judis describes, Democratic groups -- including (perhaps especially) liberal activist groups -- now (with some exceptions) lend their allegiance to the party and its leader regardless of how faithful the party leadership is to their beliefs. That disparity means that there is often great popular agitation and political pressure exerted from the Right, but almost none from the Left (I'm using the terms "Left" and "Right" here in their conventional sense: "Right" being the core of the GOP and "Left" being those who most consistently and vigorously opposed Bush's foreign and domestic policies).

During the 2008 election, Obama co-opted huge portions of the Left and its infrastructure so that their allegiance became devoted to him and not to any ideas. Many online political and "news" outlets -- including some liberal political blogs -- discovered that the most reliable way to massively increase traffic was to capitalize on the pro-Obama fervor by turning themselves into pro-Obama cheerleading squads. Grass-roots activist groups watched their dues-paying membership rolls explode the more they tapped into that same sentiment and turned themselves into Obama-supporting appendages. Even labor unions and long-standing Beltway advocacy groups reaped substantial benefits by identifying themselves as loyal foot soldiers in the Obama movement.

The major problem now is that these entities -- the ones that ought to be applying pressure on Obama from the Left and opposing him when he moves too far Right -- are now completely boxed in. They've lost -- or, more accurately, voluntarily relinquished -- their independence. They know that criticizing -- let alone opposing -- Obama will mean that all those new readers they won last year will leave; that all those new dues-paying members will go join some other, more Obama-supportive organization; that they will prompt intense backlash and anger among the very people -- their members, supporters and readers -- on whom they have come to rely as the source of their support, strength, and numbers.

As a result, there is very little political or media structure to Obama's Left that can or will criticize him, even when he moves far to what the Beltway calls the "center" or even the Right (i.e., when he adopts large chunks of the GOP position). That situation is extremely bad -- both for the Left and for Obama. It makes impossible what very well might be the apocryphal though still illuminating FDR anecdote:

FDR was, of course, a consummate political leader. In one situation, a group came to him urging specific actions in support of a cause in which they deeply believed. He replied: "I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it."

As Judis points out, Obama, on some issues, might move to the Right because he wants to. In other cases, he will do so because he perceives that he has to, because the combination of the GOP/Blue-Dog-following-caucus/Beltway-media-mob might force him to. Regardless of Obama's motives, the lack of a meaningful, potent movement on the Left to oppose that behavior ensures that it will continue without any resistance. The lack of any independent political pressure from the Left ensures that Obama will be either content to ignore their views or will be forced to do so even when he doesn't want to.

more...

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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick
nt
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Only one word seems appropriate in this instance..."Bullshit"....(nt)
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. What part of Greenwald's piece do you take issue with?
nt
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Maybe you would care to explain - because every word of it seems true to me as I K&R
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You've heard the expression.."opinions are like assholes"? Draw your
own conclusions. My "opinion" is that this article is bullshit as I clearly stated. You agree with it...that's your "opinion" as well as your right. What's so hard about that?
:shrug:
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. What is ahrd about it is that you choose to dismiss it all as opinion
and you choose not to attempt to make your case that it is, in fact, bullshit.

You called it bullshit ...... now defend that premise.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. My sincere wish is that the hard left will become as insignificant and as
irrelevant as the hard right has. Try as they may, they can't derail the President's popularity, and I think that's what is at the bottom of all the hit pieces coming from the left. It's not the President's fault that some on the left projected their hopes and dreams onto him without doing the necessary research. He never lied about his positions, and if they lose readers, listeners, and/or viewers when they go negative on the President, sobeit.

DU seems to be moving along swimmingly, despite all the anti-Obama crap that gets posted here. So therefore, I call BULLSHIT on Greenwald. That very article could have been written by any number of DU'ers who seem to have a huge following here...TwoAmericas and BetterBelieveIt come immediately to mind.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Oh man .... where to start ..... ?
Edited on Sat Feb-14-09 01:24 PM by Stinky The Clown
I'll keep it short and sweet:

It is against the rules to call out other posters. I won't alert on this cuz I actually **want** your post to stand.

Second, this 'hard left' crap. Not so good. While it is true that there have been shots at him from the far left, it is just as true that some of us who live right smack in the middle of Democratville - not far left and not blue dog ..... just garden variety liberals .... kinda like FDR people, yanno? - are not totally enchanted by some of the stuff that's going on right now.

I'll make this about me, for just a second ...... I am thrilled he's our president. I like him a lot. I cheered and cried when he won, when he accepted, and when he was inaugurated. I knew he was more conservative than me, too. I wasn't fooled.

That said, I find myself in disagreement with him on a number of issues. That's not hate. That's disagreement. And keeping that sort of critical eye open causes me to see the fawners for what they are: fawners. I am sure they like the guy as much as me and I am sure they're mostly intelligent people. But when they consistently defend every damn thing he says or does, I find that I question their judgment. I DO see them as being more about personality than issues.

.......... making this about the 'hard left' works toward bankrupting your basic premise.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Alert away! I don't give two shits what you do. This obviously has
become a place where people who admire and respect the President are no longer welcome. If this was Skinner's vision, then it's probably best that I get banned before I really hurt your feelings. I'm fed up with all the constant bitching and whining, and the fact that it's allowed to stand is troubling, and quite frankly pisses me off.

Have at it.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do you have any clue how off base you are?
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm going to join another poster in ths thread and invite you to ....
.... go fuck yourself.

You're way off base, pallie ..... waaaaaaay off base.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I think post #13 says it best. (nt)
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Hehehe ....
... is that the best ya got?

How about those combat boots?

:eyes:

Oy .... some people's kids ......
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. You bore me. If I said what I was thinking, I'd get banned for sure....
:rofl:
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh geeze .....
I bore you so much you can't resist trying for the last word, huh?

You'd love to smell my shortz ... go ahead .... admit it.

Hahahahaha
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. So your response is to call me an asshole for having a differing opinion?
Edited on Sat Feb-14-09 01:07 PM by ThomWV
If so all I can say is go fuck yourself.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. And your mother! (nt)
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Numero Cinco
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, because it's not like ANY liberal groups have been criticizing Obama!
Not the women's groups, or the gay groups, or the left-wing economists, or...

:sarcasm:

What a tank of BS.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Amen to that! (nt)
:fistbump:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Dead on right as usual!
I love Glen. :)
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I love him more
:D
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. NO I do!
Put up ur dukes!

:)
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. This part sucks
I clicked on Glen's link for this and I have to disagree...

One of the problems for Democrats has been that there has not been an effective progressive voice pushing the edge of the envelope. Therefore, when they inevitably "go to the middle" as politicians often feel they must do, the middle become further and further right. It is my belief that one of the roles of the progressive movement is to keep pulling the politicians back to the left, which often means that we are not being publicly "supportive," in order that we really do end up in the middle instead of farther to the right than the country actually is.




Excuse me? There will NEVER be "an effective progressive voice" as long as our news is nothing more than State TV!

:grr:
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. there is a big difference between right and left issue groups
right wing issue groups are backed by big money. They can use this club to beat any dissidents to death. A Republican politician that crosses on will be denounced on talk radio, defamed by cable news talking heads, and primaried out of a job.

left wing groups don't control the airwaves and do not have the funding to independently run a credible primary campaign. Left wing groups need to bargain and persuade politicians. Hence they will support a moderate liberal like Obama in the hopes of having some small influence on his policies.
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