Outsourcing America's technology and knowledge jobs

[DainBramaged]

High-skill guest worker visas are currently hurting rather than helping keep jobs at home



Throughout 2007 Congress will consider U.S. high-skill immigration policy reform once again. There is a widespread belief amongst various interest groups that the high-skill immigration system is broken. First, the loudest voices come from the high-technology industry, which argues that current policies are forcing them to turn away the best and brightest foreign workers, pointing out that many of them are educated in America's finest universities at taxpayers' expense. Universities, aligned with industry interests, are concerned that their foreign students are unable to find positions after graduation because of immigration constraints. But on the other hand, U.S. workers argue that they are being undercut by policies that allow U.S. workers to be displaced by foreign workers willing to be paid less. As for foreign workers, they complain of being put in potentially exploitable conditions and seemingly interminable waits for a Permanent Resident Card (typically called a green card). There is some truth in all of these viewpoints, albeit each group's perspective brings different and oftentimes conflicting policy prescriptions.

This briefing paper focuses on two key policy mechanisms for high-skill labor mobility and immigration, the H-1B and the L-1 guest worker visas.1 In practice these programs not only fail to meet their policy goals, they actually work against them. And more importantly, the vast expansion of the H-1B program passed by the U.S. Senate last year will make the programs even more harmful. If these H-1B provisions were to be signed into law, the consequences are obvious: they would directly lead to more offshore outsourcing of jobs, displacement of American technology workers, decreased wages and job opportunities for those same workers, and the discouragement of young people from entering science and engineering fields.

Instead of expanding these non-immigrant work-permit programs, Congress should focus on repairing them so that they serve their intended purposes.

H-1B expansion arguments fall short
Supporters of an expansion of the H-1B program argue that the work visas serve a critical role in the economy, particularly in the high-technology sector. Supporters typically make two claims. First, they claim that there is a systemic shortage of U.S. scientists and engineers, and the only way to fill the gap between domestic demand and supply of high-skill workers is by importing guest-workers through the H-1B program. They argue that, without a large increase in the H-1B program, they will be forced to outsource the jobs by hiring foreign scientists and engineers in their home countries. Second, they claim that the H-1B program serves as the gateway to immigration for the "best and brightest" foreigners, arguing that capturing the best and brightest is contingent on an expansion of the H-1B program.

But neither claim is supported by analysis of actual program operation. Rather than preventing the outsourcing of jobs, the H-1B program acts in just the opposite way, by accelerating the outsourcing of high-wage, high-skill jobs to low-cost countries. The largest users of the H-1B program are offshore outsourcing firms, whose business model depends on moving as much work overseas as possible. And these firms do not use the program as a bridge to immigration, for they sponsor very few of their workers for green cards. For example, in 2006, Wipro Technologies applied for 19,450 H-1B positions but only for 69 green cards, a 0.004 green card to H-1B application ratio. H-1B program links to immigration are increasingly tenuous, and more importantly, the H-1B proponents are providing policy makers a false choice: increase the H-1B program or risk losing the best and brightest foreign workers. There are many much better and more effective policy mechanisms to encourage the best and brightest to immigrate to the United States. The H-1B program does not have to be the gateway to immigration for the best and brightest.

What causes the gap between the promise and reality? The H-1B program does not live up to the promises of its supporters because of fundamental flaws in program design in three key areas (outlined below).

http://www.sharedprosperity.org/bp187.html

[BlooInBloo]

1. Man - when I was interviewing mathematical programmers, I'm DAMN glad...

I wasn't forced to hire an American citizen. It was amazing how stupid the "normal Americans" were (by contrast with the average foreign-born candidates).

And all of our programmers were paid in the 6-figure range - regardless of nationality. I never saw any "lowering of wages" that nativists talk about. Too hard to fill the job with a shitty salary, no matter where they were from.


EDIT: Added the contrast.

[DainBramaged]

2. "It was amazing how stupid the "normal Americans" were "

I'm a "NORMAL" American, I have a degree in business, my Microsoft software certifications (multiple) and I bet you don't even understand DOS, I'm a Class III certified technician (I can build a computer blindfolded and it will boot up within 95 minutes, or 45 minutes with the blindfold off, of starting the build), and I LOST the best job I ever had working for a medical device design and manufacturing firm to an H1-B visa holder in 2001 because he worked for $35,000 less without benefits.


Don't tell me that Americans are stupid. Oh wait, your reply is self-fulfilling. :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

3. (facepalm)

EDIT: If you don't have any idea what I'm talking about, you shouldn't say anything.

[DainBramaged]

4. Your replies of late have been just deranged. I don't care "what you meant"

Your reply was offensive and downright stupid.

[BlooInBloo]

5. How can you know it's either offensive or stupid, if you don't know what I'm talking about?

Neat trick, that.


EDIT: In any case, the stupidity of Americans IS offensive. Very offensive.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. Well gosh, maybe Americans would be smarter if we started investing in ourselves again

Nah, that might cost low wage corporations some of their profits and we can't have that! :sarcasm:

[Still Sensible]

36. Obviously you have violated the DU purity brigade's

sensibilities. Don't you know that true progressives are supposed to hate the H-1B program?
How dare you have a different opinion!

[ChromeFoundry]

16. Don't even bother with this one...

This clown comes on all the Visa threads and regurgitates this same old bullshit. Never backs up anything with documented fact.. just flings his shit like a chimpanzee in a circus side-show act.

[Deja Q]

27. Agreed. 100%.

He's probably looking at how people, on a free forum, freely mix up "loose" and "lose", and thinks far more into it. (Even I, a grammar nazi du jour, will recognize that given the context of a free forum, some people with even the best written communication skills might just be inclined to type without care anyway.)

[Hello_Kitty]

9. So you're saying you didn't interview a single qualified American?

Really? Not one?

Right.

BTW, if you want to go around calling people "nativists" don't be surprised when they turn around and call you a "cheap labor asshole".

[BlooInBloo]

19. We did get one. One.

But it's funny how the nativists pick-and-choose what to ignore out of what I say. We were *all* paid 6-figure range. Variation was due primarily to experience/title. I, for example (being something of a worker-bee), was paid less than any number of leads/etc., the bulk of whom were Chinese, Indian, Japanese, or Eastern European.


EDIT: Ooops - we got two. I forgot to count myself. hahahaha!

[Hello_Kitty]

21. Oh yes, of course, yourself.

Hahahaha.

:eyes:

[Deja Q]

25. I am educated but lack "experience". A minor question, how do I get "experience"?

Don't say "volunteer work for the church" because tinpot tinkering isn't the same as controlling databases and procedures affecting hundreds or thousands of people.

[BlooInBloo]

28. That's the most maddening catch-22 there is, eh?

Although, it's not as bad as it used to be, I think, because of the existence of open-source projects.

In my (former) field, for just one example, doing something gee-whiz when Quantlib would surely have counted as "experience" by our lights.

But that's *definitely* one of those situations where it's better to be lucky than to be good.

[Deja Q]

26. Okay, so how come "normal Americans" are stupid? They eat paste for breakfast?

Do you sponsor Elmer's brand Glue too?

[BlooInBloo]

29. Because they're raised by stupid parents, and taught by stupid teachers....

Ex nihilo nihil fit, so they say.

[Hello_Kitty]

30. Because of fucking corporate whores, that's why

They move their businesses offshore to avoid paying taxes, thus defunding our schools. Then they claim that they have to outsource because Americans aren't smart enough, even though millions of Americans burden themselves under crushing student debt in a vain attempt to make themselves attractive to employers. I wonder how many of the "smarter" foreign workers BlooInBloo hired come from countries where they get their educations fully funded. Probably all of them.

[L0oniX]

33. Because half of them watch Fox and listen to Limpballs.

[Hello_Kitty]

7. Isn't it amazing how the H1B apologists on DU almost invariably have the same story?

"Sure, I hired H1-B visas, but it was only because I couldn't find an American who was qualified and I pay them 6 figure salaries!"

[DainBramaged]

8. ..........

.:hug: :hi:

[ChromeFoundry]

13. Hint...

it's 6-figures when you add in both of the values after the decimal point! :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. Exactly right.

:hi:

[OhioChick]

12. The H-1B visa has got to go

The H-1B visa has got to go

February 12, 2009

With more than 200,000 tech workers on the unemployment line, there's no longer any reason to look abroad for employees

Microsoft, Intel, Hewlett-Packard, Motorola, and more recently Panasonic and IBM -- the flood of technology-related layoffs and firings isn't slowing and, sadly, is likely to continue for some time. Given that reality, isn't it time that the IT community speaks with one voice and demands that the government suspend -- or at least greatly reduce and reshape -- the H-1B visa program for the duration of the economic emergency?

Don't blame the immigrants -- or cry racism
Before I go further, let me say that I do not -- and you should not -- blame the workers from India and other countries who seek those visas. Like us, they want good jobs and a better life for their families. So I oppose the vindictive proposal from Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) to lay off foreigners first.

This critical debate has been distorted in a number of ways. Some echo the arguments of the 19th-century Know Nothing Party, a thinly veiled campaign of racism. But others, such as Thomas Friedman, writing in the New York Times on Wednesday, and Vivek Wadhwa on BusinessWeek.com position the argument as innovation versus stagnation. End the visa program and Silicon Valley will become the new Detroit, they say. Well, that's a stretch. Innovation by Americans has not decreased, and there's no reason companies can't continue to tap the best brains throughout the world.

And others, many of whom are well-meaning, refuse to listen to those of us who think the H-1B program is abused and destructive. They claim that anyone who opposes the flood of foreign tech workers into Silicon Valley is, well, racist, nativist, and anti-immigrant. That's wrong and unfair -- and it sidetracks the legitimate debate.

H-1B: A solution in search of a problem
When H-1B first became law in the 1990s, the premise was simple and made sense: The growing technology industry couldn't find enough skilled workers to fill key jobs. In response to lobbying by the industry, Congress permitted companies to hire foreign workers under a new provision of immigration law that established fairly liberal quotas for skilled workers.

Fair enough -- but that's no longer the case. With thousands of highly skilled and experienced IT workers looking for jobs, it's hardly plausible to talk about a labor shortage. No doubt there are exceptions. But not 85,000, which is the total number of H-1B slots available both this year and last year.

The 85,000 slots include 20,000 workers with advanced degrees from a U.S. university, which puts them in a somewhat different category. I'd argue that the provision for highly educated workers should easily fill the needs for research and innovation if the domestic workforce can't deliver. But I have to say that I'm not at all sure there's a research-and-innovation shortage either: There are plenty of unemployed engineers and researchers available.

What's more, the H-1B issue is separate from the debate concerning an overhaul of sadly confused and outdated immigration framework as a whole. Friedman's hardworking Indian immigrants would still have an opportunity to come to the United States and make their contributions as citizens-to-be if H-1B were suspended, using the regular immigration framework.

So why do we need H-1B visas today? I don't think we do.

Other countries have tough visa rules, too
Last week, I touched a nerve when I mocked IBM for suggestions that its laid-off workers should move to India for "prevailing wages" in lieu of collecting severance. Yes, that was a cold-hearted and ridiculous idea (and more than 27,000 readers agreed with me), but it does raise a point: Can U.S. workers really move to other countries?

Not easily. Most developed and many developing countries are quite strict in their regulation of workers who want to emigrate in search of a job. Sure, any citizen of the E.U. can work in any E.U. country, but tramps like us, as Springsteen would say, can not easily do the same.

Yes, there are exceptions, and in some cases it makes sense to look abroad for work. But it's not so easy to actually do. The United States is more generous than most countries in letting others work here, so why the claims or racism or nativism for those who question our policy based on policy grounds?

Indeed, when I lived in Ireland back in the days before the Celtic Tiger boom, I had to report occasionally to the local office of the Garda Siochana to prove that I wasn't working. Was that because the Irish were anti-American? Hardly. The country was in the midst of an economic crisis and needed to protect its own hard-pressed workforce. And there was nothing wrong with that.

So why are those of us who argue that H-1B is an outdated and harmful policy labeled racist and anti-immigrant? Part of the answer to that question is political correctness gone amok.

However, there are those in the technology industry who take advantage of H-1B to bring in workers and pay them less than prevailing wages. Waving the flag of immigrant rights gives them cover to push down wages and keep the domestic workforce from organizing. It's dishonest, and it's unfair.

The time to act on H-1B visas is now
It's not only laid-off workers who are suffering. In the last 10 years or so, the number of people forced to work as contractors has increased exponentially. Full-time jobs that might have gone to them are being filled by holders of H-1B visas. And that's a double whammy: Self-employed workers generally don't qualify for unemployment insurance, and they pay a substantial chunk of their income for benefits that companies don't offer them as contractors.

During his campaign, President Obama supported higher H-1B quotas as a stopgap measure. But as we know all too well, things have changed for the worse, and it no longer makes sense to increase the number of H-1B visas as there is no worker shortage.

We no longer have the luxury to wait for a reformed work-visa policy. Tell the president, your senators, and your representatives that reform -- meaning a reduction or suspension now, and a more rational approach to avoiding their use to lower wages in the future -- of H-1B can no longer wait. Our jobs depend on it.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/tech-bottom-line/archives/2009/02/h1b_has_got_to.html

[Deja Q]

22. The gross misuse and abuse of it has got to go.

Globalization is here, but many corporations' executives think that a trained monkey could do Job X or Procedure Y. Trouble is, they cannot see beyond their balanced sheet. Jobs are thrown around anywhere just for the sake of (upfront) costs.

The system is massively broken and hurts far, far more than helps. And, ultimately, it's not going to help those who keep offshoring either.

And, given the number of unemployed Americans, I find it extraordinarily difficult to believe that there is a shortage of qualified American workers. Even Microsoft can no longer make the claim.

[HughMoran]

14. I can't even read this it makes me so angry. Lost my job, that's all I can say

I'm as talented/productive as 5 of the "low-cost" technical people combined, but that's not how companies these days see it.

:mad:

[OhioChick]

15. I'll bet you are...

It's all about that cheap ass labor.

Study Says H-1Bs Aren't the Best or Brightest

http://blogs.eweek.com/careers/content001/h1b_foreign_workers/study_says_h1bs_arent_the_best_or_brightest.html

[Skittles]

20. like we needed a study to tell us that, right, chick?

R I G H T

[OhioChick]

31. No shit...

We live it everyday, don't we?

[Skittles]

40. this morning I IPL'd a system

when it came up, despite all my system checks looking good, NO TAPE MOUNTS WERE PICKING UP. Problem? It's mimplexed with a system that is "monitored" in Brazil so they share drives - Brazil had IPL'd then failed to notice that NONE OF THEIR TAPE DRIVES CAME ONLINE. Their HOURS-OLD DFHSM WTOR's held up my tape processing. How the FUCK is that possible, not to notice you have NO TAPE DRIVE PROCESSING HAPPENING? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ChromeFoundry]

17. Sorry to hear about your job... that really sucks.

:toast: here's a virtual cold one from a fellow techie.

[Deja Q]

23. If you get another job, will you lower your standards and be 1/5th as valuable?

I'm so sorry you lost your job. Everybody is feeling that fear right now* and it shouldn't have to be that way if "globalization" was about genuine expansion.


* Even due to a worldwide recession, but previous "economic hiccups" have shown America to be a key stone in the global economy. We are not irrelevant and still won't become irrelevant for some time.

[girl gone mad]

18. It's not working for Microsoft.

The biggest advocate and employer of H1-B immigrants has also become one of the least innovative high-tech companies. Their strategy of short term profits through cheap labor and recycling old ideas has severely weakened them.

[Deja Q]

24. It is for me; I'm dumping Vista and buying Lightroom to replace Expression Media. Why?

Never mind Vista; people complaining about bugs in how Expression Media formats pages in such a way that it generates illegal characters that non-IE browsers display -- that's grossly unprofessional. Would Steve Ballmer go to a conference and note a big "*"-type symbol on the wall of a fancy presentation?

To coin a phrase: "Fuck, no."

Some of their software has improved, but the unmitigated gall to tell people they have to wait for a new product version for a fix is a huge slap in the face.

I'm not keen on Apple, but have no qualms spending the money if my latest attempt with Linux fails. Native Adobe apps would run better too. (Each company knows it's got the consumer by the gonads, which is why Apple can charge 2~3x for its hardware and Microsoft can be bone idle about fixing bugs so damn obvious it's amazing how they got past their presumably existing QC division... and I don't mean we, the end users beta testing bought and paid for software.)

[Greyhound]

32. Which flavor are you trying? n/t

[L0oniX]

34. Out source American jobs and then hire outsiders ...bizaroworld!

:shrug:

[PM Martin]

35. I have never been a fan of these programs.

End it.

[Greyhound]

38. The lie that we just cannot get into the national consciousness.

When you have a constantly increasing supply of low wage workers coming in, rising wages and standards are impossible. Each time the supply begins to meet the demand, they increase the supply again. Bottom line is that we cannot employ the entire world or allow nominally American companies to go outside the country if we want to be viable in the long run.

If you really want to get pissed off, watch the last H-1(b) visa hearings on C-Span. Not one challenge nor request for proof of the claims made by the corporations who were the only witnesses in the sham.

[Catshrink]

39. Nurses and teachers, too.

I think it's a way to break the unions and pay us shittier wages.