Facebook wants to own all the content you post -- in perpetuity, for free, forever

[villager]

http://darkforces.powbangzap.com/blog/2009/02/unethical-facebook-lays-claim-to-user.html


Facebook claims they have all rights in perpetuity to any content here on the site (previously, it was simply a basic right to post your content here on the site and use in marketing, the latter of which was bad enough).

<snip>

This is making me rethink the whole Facebook thing. Course any management team that includes Bush-apologizer/defender Ted Ullyot should be suspect.

[BlooInBloo]

1. (shrug) So don't use facebook.

[villager]

5. One of the problems with that is they're changing the rules midstream

Do they imagine they own, retroactively, everybody's content, even when posted under a different agreement, forever, to use in any form with no compensation (what about linked material?), even if the person "quits" Facebook?

[Orrex]

10. I suspect that an earlier TOS provided for amendments at Facebook's whim

It's still an extraordinarily shitty thing to do, and I'm not certain that it would stand up to legal scrutiny, but it certainly showed the to be a bunch of dicks.

[BlooInBloo]

11. It's their site. Everyone knew that going in...

If they wanna be dicks, it's their right. Just like it's everybody else's right to not participate.

[villager]

13. So -- business models can now be bereft of public trust or honesty

or operating in good faith, in the post-Bush era?

[BlooInBloo]

14. Yes, people have the right to be assholes with their own property...

And we have the right not to use said property.

[villager]

19. well, Mr. Libertarian, some of us believe differently, in the "marketplace" of ideas

and interpersonal relations...

[BlooInBloo]

23. self-delete - double post.

[BlooInBloo]

24. hahaha! Someone who believes in the existence of property rights is a libertarian?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[villager]

27. And now the inevitable snark comes out... So: You defend racist policies at country clubs, I assume

for the exact same reason?

I will omit the defensive stream of snarky emoticons...

[BlooInBloo]

33. You're weird.

[villager]

38. project much?

n/t

[Skittles]

44. hey villager

do I need to kick your ass and show you how to put that fucking asshat on IGNORE? You know I'll do it.

[Sherman A1]

45. Agreed

But, I must admit it is sometimes hard to follow the thread when the "other one" is already on my ignore list. Strongly urge Villager to do the same, makes life much more pleasant.

[Skittles]

46. you must have the same eye for trolls I do

yes INDEED :hi:

[Sherman A1]

47. Perhaps not trolls

Just those who are "Legends In their Own Minds" :toast:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

15. Exactly

I keep getting nags to sign up with Facebook, but, honestly, I am in touch with the people I want to be in touch with. It's called email, phone, knocking on door.

That's quite enough for me. I have no desire to be tracked down by anyone from the past. If I did, they would be in my present, not my past.

[Orrex]

16. That attitude of yours is exactly why I never liked you in high school

And that's why it took me so long to track you down here at DU.


Go School!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. Uh oh.............

About that night in our junior year - it wasn't my fault - the economics teacher insisted I stay in the car with him, and I was too afraid he'd give me a D or something, so I had to stay and that's why I missed cheerleader practice and didn't get to vote for you for captain.

[Orrex]

22. That's not the way I heard it

Everyone knew all about you and your econ teacher and your pom-poms.


I'm just sorry that I had to learn your side of it here in GD, of all places.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

26. For what it's worth,

the teacher died. He never knew what hit him. The pom-poms aren't quite what they used to be.

I have been led to understand that GD is the place where true reconciliation can take place.

So, did your face ever clear up?

[Orrex]

30. It did, thanks for asking!

Years of unrestrained debauchery and self-indulgence were the key.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. I remember what you wrote in

my yearbook:

"Abuse it or lose it."

Glad it all worked out for you!

[Orrex]

34. It's great that we had this chance to sort things out

I always wondered why you weren't at the econ teacher's funeral.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

40. Well,

when I heard they had to bury him in a drum, I knew that things had gotten out of hand after I sent his letters to the principal.

They were right about GD - it is a place for reconciliation.

It's time for my meds now, so I'll catch you another time.

I'm glad you didn't hold that cheerleader vote against me.

GO SCHOOL!!

[malaise]

51. Ding ding

I have never joined one of those sites. They popped up when privacy rights were being violated. Why would anyone give a website access to personal information.
Now they can sell it to anyone.

They'll never fool me.

[Orrex]

2. One solution is for someone to post illegal porn and then call the feds on Facebook

By the same token, if Facebook owns the content of a message in which one member makes terrorist threats against another, then Facebook is the one making terrorist threats.

[Vickers]

7. Haha!

:thumbsup:

[Orrex]

9. I note that their disclaimer attempts to get around this

You are solely responsible for the User Content that you Post on or through the Facebook Service.

In other words, everything you upload is ours, except the bad stuff, which is yours.

[Vickers]

12. Naturally.

This is like asking my kids who did what and when where why and how...you almost have to lawyer up to get to the bottom of things.

[ZombieHorde]

3. Funny post.

[Seen the light]

4. Don't most sites have similar clauses in their Terms of Service?

If I'm reading it correctly, even DU has something similar although you can opt out of it here.

[villager]

6. something that draconian?

n/t

[Shakespeare]

20. Yes, they do. This is totally standard. n/t

[villager]

21. citation?

n/t

[Shakespeare]

25. The citation is to go look at the TOS for any site that uses a majority of user-generated content.

There's no "citation." I help draft these a few times a month in my line of work (entertainment law), and there's nothing unusual about it.

[csziggy]

28. Yes, Compuserve did it for forum content in the early 90s, iVillage forums a few years ago

When Compuserve did it, uploading pictures and files on a site to share with others was very new and they provided the web space and an easy (for the period) method of uploading and linking. And since the forums were private, available only to those paying for the service, we did not see that CS would get much use out of that content.

iVillage pissed off a bunch of users by changing their TOS and using content not even hosted on their site for promo/article stuff. I can see getting some usage rights if the site provides space to post pictures and files, but when they try to claim content that is hosted at another location and just linked to, I think they have gone over the line. iVillage (GardenWeb.com among other forums) provides no hosting other than the forum discussion space. Some long time users have even made blogs at other locations in order to provide non-scrolling content and picture posting space - and iVillage tried to claim that.

[villager]

29. your history of iVillage shows the exact problem -- or at least its potential -- in this instance

n/t

[villager]

8. More of the clause in question, to clarify:

Note this clause--especially the words "fully paid" and "right to sublicense":

You are solely responsible for the User Content that you Post on or through the Facebook Service. You hereby grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to (a) use, copy, publish, stream, store, retain, publicly perform or display, transmit, scan, reformat, modify, edit, frame, translate, excerpt, adapt, create derivative works and distribute (through multiple tiers), any User Content you (i) Post on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof subject only to your privacy settings or (ii) enable a user to Post, including by offering a Share Link on your website and (b) to use your name, likeness and image for any purpose, including commercial or advertising, each of (a) and (b) on or in connection with the Facebook Service or the promotion thereof. You represent and warrant that you have all rights and permissions to grant the foregoing licenses.

[Ladyhawk]

17. That really blows.

I've been uploading photos...makes me want to go and erase them, but according to this lovely clause, it's already too late.

[Stargazer09]

36. I know how you feel

I'm probably going to erase mine anyway, just to minimize the exposure.

Fortunately, there are so many users on Facebook now that my small albums aren't likely to be stolen. It's the principle of the thing.

[Posteritatis]

42. Totally standard. That clause is everywhere (nt)

[SoCalDem]

32. That's what happens when you scribble on someone else's wall

YOU may have written it, but it's always gonna be their wall:)

[Shakespeare]

37. That's not a bad analogy.

Users voluntarily post data on servers owned and maintained by the site operators. It's rather straightforward, and really not controversial at all.

[2Design]

35. I suspect that of most free sites - you are giving away your rights

so you have to decide - there are other choices and you keep ownership

[Lex]

39. OMG--not my status updates and pieces of flair!

nt

[GoCubsGo]

52. And the pictures of my cats!

Whatever will the do with the rights to those?

[Posteritatis]

41. Good luck finding many websites more complex than a generic forum without that rule

And I mean that exact rule, word for word with the exception of the site's name. It's not even a new thing.

It started on Geocities better than ten years back and is common enough on just about any website these days that I simply assume it's the default because, well, it is.

But of course, since Facebook's the current Myspace/AOL/Usenet/comic books in the media these days, let's all just blindly assume they're unusual in that regard and join the moral panic!

[PM Martin]

43. I am no fan of these networking sites.

Don't post there.

[villager]

48. Apparently, the controversy is that Facebook now wants to maintain such ownership even if you delete

...your account.

[serrano2008]

49. This sounds like Facebook's newest attempt to try to figure out how to be profitable.

Ain't gonna work. They came up with one of the biggest internet sites in the world and can't figure out how to turn that into more cash. I know, all the founders and people are rich from it.

[cobalt1999]

50. They'd be idiots if they didn't

Think they want to start paying royalties to you for all your comments about the worst movie of 2006?

[Bluenorthwest]

53. That is why all internet sites

Get only chatter from me, and any real thought or work is saved for the real world.

Facebook sucks.