Is the Pope Catholic?

[BurtWorm]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/world/europe/17pope.html?hp=&pagewanted=print



February 17, 2009
Amid Scandals, Questions of Where the Pope’s Focus Lies
By RACHEL DONADIO and NICHOLAS KULISH

...

The Vatican expert George Weigel, in a recent essay in First Things, an American religion journal, criticized the Vatican for its “chaos, confusion and incompetence.”

In Vienna on Monday, 10 Austrian bishops convened a crisis session to deal with the fallout. Erich Leitenberger, a spokesman for the Vienna Archdiocese, said church officials around the country had been inundated with letters, phone calls and e-mail messages, including from parishioners saying they were leaving the church.

Austria, a majority-Catholic country with a complicated Nazi past, had been reeling from the pope’s revocation of the excommunication of four schismatic bishops from the ultraconservative Society of St. Pius X, including Bishop Richard Williamson, who has denied the existence of the Nazi gas chambers as well as the scale and genocidal intent of the Holocaust.

While that firestorm was still raging, Benedict ignited another by appointing the Rev. Gerhard Maria Wagner, known for his Katrina comment and for saying that homosexuality was curable, as the auxiliary bishop of Linz.

Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, the highest ranking Catholic official in Austria, said Monday that the decisions about the schismatic bishops and Father Wagner were unrelated, and that they were “made on different tracks.” But their proximity intensified the rancor among more reform-minded Austrian Catholics.

Mr. Leitenberger said, “The displeasure grew exponentially.”

...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

1. the pope is lacking in morality and is completely tone deaf.

[Heidi]

2. Recommending this, first for the subject line,

and second based on the fact that I live in a deeply Catholic canton, where every Catholic friend I've spoken with has confided a sense of, "This is not who we are," with regard to the Pope's "leadership" on this issue.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

4. Yep, most Catholics I know are fairly socially liberal

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

7. We really need to take back our church

but we lack the organization and knowledge to do so. It's something I've always found frustrating.

[trotsky]

9. Or leave it, and take your money and support away.

If "most" Catholics really are liberal and would do this, the church would be forced to change.

[Goblinmonger]

10. Wow, we agreed on something

:rofl:

[trotsky]

11. I really need to read all the way to the end of threads before responding.

:P

[anonymous171]

13. Me too. nt

[Goblinmonger]

14. Leave.

What's wrong with the liberal episcopals? The dogma is certainly pretty dang similar. You aren't going to change it from within.

[anonymous171]

15. That is what the Pope is hoping for.

His entire goal is to prune the church, to get rid of the undesirables.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. actually what he is banking on is that you wont leave, no matter how homophobic or immoral

his positions are.

kinda like republicans with the american people

[Goblinmonger]

20. Yep

:toast:

[Goblinmonger]

19. No he's not

I believe that he doesn't give a crap if you like him or not. He's the pope. He is the church. If, as so many people indicate, the church is just jam packed with liberals, then you should all leave and go elsewhere. Then he won't have any money or any strength through numbers. Let him have his little clique of a few zealots. They would be powerless.

But I would argue that the number of liberals in the church ain't as high as people on here are indicating. But if you are a liberal, why give this douchebag your money?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

24. I'm well aware. I've read some of his theology.

But I must admit I'm disturbed by his tendency to think conservative = faithful, especially considering how loudly the SSPX protested Vatican II and gave themselves over to heresy so quickly.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

16. I actually don't go to Church, I just often stick up for it on here

And, if I did go to Church, I'd never join an Episcopalian church. I'd be more likely to go to a Unitarian church. I just couldn't bring myself to join the Episcopalians.

[Goblinmonger]

21. I can get that.

But it just amazes me that people continue to be a member of a church that they disagree with on so many levels. Why they continue to give their money and support to a church that runs against so much of what they stand for is beyond me.

And I'm a Unitarian. Good little organization there.

Peace.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. i am hindu. i worship my goddesses at home. i refuse to go to temples

since priest create and propogate sexism and homophobia and casteism in india.

i also clearly dont donate

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

23. I'm too stubborn.

Besides, I like Catholicism and believe in the core doctrines solidly. I'm not going to be run out by some German-screeching ideologue.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. Actually, I don't think this Pope is very Catholic

[walkaway]

5. I was baptized a catholic but born an Atheist

and I grew up getting a big dose of the creepy propaganda that the church controls it's members with.

I believe that it's a good thing that this Nazi/Fascist became pope. It is much better that the catholic church shows it's true face to the world.

[hedgehog]

6. The furor in Austria was so great, that Rev. Wagner turned down his

appointment. I've never heard of anything like this happening. Everyone thinks the Vatican is a monolith, but that's what everyone said about the Iron Curtain before 1989. Good Pope John opened the windows to let the Holy Spirit in; but the Vatican insiders have spent the last 50 years slamming those windows shut. It may be the Holy Spirit will blow down the walls now.

[Goblinmonger]

8. Liberal Catholics need to leave

I just don't get it. Go to the liberal Episcopal churches. It's the same stuff without the pope. THAT would send a message. Stop giving money and the power of numbers to the church. Because it ain't going to get better with the new pope when this one kicks it. The Cardinals were all chosen by JPII and will be by the new guy. Think the Cardinals which pick the next pope are going to be raging liberals or conservatives? Give you two guesses and the first doesn't count.

Leave. Now. You'll be much happier. Find a religion that actually supports what you believe. You will not be able to change the Catholic church from within.

[TexasObserver]

12. a guy makes one little mistake, like being a Nazi, and ....

I never liked this S.O.B., even before I knew he'd been a Nazi.

He's everything bad about the papal bull shit. He was the enforcer of dogma for decades. He's about as spiritual as Al Capone.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. was capone a hypocrite? preaching love while supporting hate?

:)