Obama plots huge railroad expansion

[kpete]

Source: Politico

Obama plots huge railroad expansion
By DAVID ROGERS | 2/17/09 4:29 AM EST

Railroads made Chicago, and now a Chicago-rich White House wants to return the favor: remaking rail with a huge new federal investment in high-speed passenger trains.

The $787.2 billion economic recovery bill — to be signed by President Barack Obama on Tuesday — dedicates $8 billion to high-speed rail, most of which was added in the final closed-door bargaining at the instigation of White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel.

It’s a sum that far surpasses anything before attempted in the United States — and more is coming. Administration officials told Politico that when Obama outlines his 2010 budget next week, it will ask for $1 billion more for high-speed rail in each of the next five years.

Yet for all the high stakes, the pieces didn’t fall into place until the end of deliberations on the recovery bill. And the way in which they did is revealing of the often late-breaking decisions — and politics — that shaped the final package.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18924.html

[hedgehog]

1. I love trains.

Here's hoping someone figures out how to load passenger cars on trains or else gets rental agencies at the rail stations.

[byeya]

34. passenger cars on trains was common in the 50s & 60s

between the major cities of the northeast and Florida as I understand it. People who spent the winters, or parts thereof, took their cars along.

[BumRushDaShow]

41. Amtrak still has the Auto-Train to Orlando

You load up the car in Virginia.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Route/Vertical_Route_Page&c=am2Route&cid=1081256321200&ssid=136



They should build more of these car-carriers and run similar routes cross-country. I'm sure people who are moving cross-country would opt to put the car on a train if they don't want to drive it or ship it some other way (by truck).

[reggie the dog]

48. we already do that here in France and have done so for decades

you put your car in the TGV and zip away at up to 575 km/hour (most are in the 400 km/hour or250 mph range).

[loudsue]

60. Wow! That's fast! I'd travel that way a lot if the cost was comparable.

I'd also like to see a system of water pipelines and cisterns to move flood waters from different areas of the country to drought stricken areas, or areas that could be farmed successfully with irrigation. A system of cisterns and lakes could provide storage. We don't know what global warming will bring, but water will be nice to have!

[rainy]

2. I can't wait! I'm looking so forward to high-speed trains. I'd take them

everywhere.

[nxylas]

3. w00t!

Hope you don't mind if I repost this in the Public Transportation forum.

[Spazito]

4. LOL, is Politico obvious in it's slant or what...

Obama "plots"....not Obama plans....not Obama wants...noooooo, Obama PLOTS. Well, I guess we can be thankful they didn't use the word 'schemes'...oh, wait a minute...scheme IS a synonym for plot.


Geez, they are truly pathetic.

[Beetwasher]

6. Yeah, I Caught That Too

None too subtle, is it?

[WriteDown]

45. See post 44 nt.

[Spazito]

54. See #52 n/t

[madrchsod]

9. you missed the "chicago" angle

[Spazito]

18. I did notice the inferred "mob" angle they so 'subtly - not' injected...

not once but twice just to make sure we wouldn't miss it. The good thing is they are showing increasing desperation in their attacks, they were much more subtle when they first bought their way onto the scene.

[WriteDown]

44. Ugh....

This is due to it being an issue concerning land.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plot%5B2%5D

A dictionary helps.

[Spazito]

52. Ugh...nice try at a red herring but no sale...

Definitions of 'plot' (plŏt)
Dictionary.com · The American Heritage® Dictionary - (11 definitions)



(noun)

A small piece of ground, generally used for a specific purpose: a garden plot.
A measured area of land; a lot.
A ground plan, as for a building; a diagram.
See graph1
The pattern of events or main story in a narrative or drama.
A secret plan to accomplish a hostile or illegal purpose; a scheme.
(verb: plot·ted, plot·ting, plots.)


(transitive verb)
To represent graphically, as on a chart: plot a ship's course.
Mathematics
To locate (points or other figures) on a graph by means of coordinates.
To draw (a curve) connecting points on a graph.
To conceive and arrange the action and incidents of: “I began plotting novels at about the time I learned to read” (James Baldwin)
To form a plot for; prearrange secretly or deviously: plot an assassination.

http://www.ask.com/web?q=dictionary:+plots&qsrc=8&content=ahdict|128594

There is NO issue concerning land in the article at all, the framing is around how the 8 billion for high speed rail got into the package, ie Obama "plot" at the last minute.

[elleng]

64. I'd be VERY surprised if this 'scheme' envisions

NEW land acquisitions, as was done in the 'olden' days. Aside from the costs, it would take FOREVER!

And example from history:

"Much of what was Grant County was owned by the Northern Pacific (NP), dating back to its completion in 1883 and the land granted to it by the Federal Government. This land was granted to help finance construction; it covered 50 miles on each side of the centerline of the tracks. It was laid in a checkerboard pattern with the Federal Government owning the alternating pieces. This was intended to guarantee that railroad access would increase the value of that part of the checkerboard not granted to the railroad."

http://www.tourgrantcounty.com/index.php?page_id=222

[elleng]

63. Don't know how it works at Politico,

but OFTEN the headline writers are completely out of touch with story writers, in newspapers, anyhow.

[Lost in CT]

72. Yeah I found that a very weird choice.

Like he was a trainspotting Dr. Evil or something.

[rollingrock]

5. Better late then never

its about time we start to catch up to the modern world.

[JDPriestly]

7. I strongly support high speed rail.

[WriteDown]

13. I strongly support it too....

but I have yet to see "how" its going to work. I expect to see a lot of use of eminent domain.

[FredStembottom]

21. Interesting point.......

....because they sure won't roll down the existing tracks. Europe might make interesting research on this point. Running tracks through our still vast stretches of farm-land is one thing but the density they had to plow through to build high speed rail must have been 1000 times more complex!

[WriteDown]

25. Yikes...

Just pictured in my mind what would happen to a high speed train on our existing tracks. One thing is for certain, for high speed rail to work, the track has to be as straight as possible and as level as possible.

[izquierdista]

30. In Europe, the government owns the tracks

That is what keeps them ahead of America, where railroad companies own the tracks. And when the railroad companies get in financial trouble, there go the tracks.

What is interesting in Europe is to see the improvement in tracks and trains from east to west. In Ukraine, trains average 40km/hr; in Poland around 70, and in Germany some of the high speed trains will hit 200 km/hr on a straight section.

[reggie the dog]

50. France routinely hits 250 MILES per hour

in its TGV trains which roll at between 350 and 400 km/ hour. The record is 574 KM per hour or 358 MPH.

[reggie the dog]

49. they are going to bulitd a new line to Italy from Lyon

and want to pass across the Var where I live, but they will pass across prime grape fields, so it is not easy at all to get a final decision on the trajectory.

[Autumn]

8. Wow

this is great.:kick: We used to take the train to see my Grandmother when I was young.

[annabanana]

10. Boy that would be great! I'd MUCH rather ride a train than

stuff myself into those flying cattle cars.

[reggie the dog]

51. me too

Plus you arrive downtown with the train. We can get to Paris in about four and a half hours and I live on the Medeterrenean. Bruxelles is only 6 and a half hours away. The stretch Marseille Paris takes about 3 hours 15.

[drm604]

11. When I worked in center city Philly

I took the Septa R6 every day. I can't imagine why anyone would drive from the suburbs to center city every day.

[BattyDem]

12. That's great!

We'll finally get some high-speed rail, just like Europe! Of course, by the time we have it across the entire country, Europe will probably have moved on to teleportation or some other high-tech means of travel that we won't get until years later. :P

But seriously ... this really is great news. I'm not crazy about flying (though I do it) and it would be nice to be able to travel in a timely manner without being 30,000 feet in the air.

[kpete]

23. bikes and trains

grounded in a nice way, peace, kp

[PM Martin]

14. It's about time.

[onehandle]

15. Good. I took Amtrak from Atlanta to NYC and back recently.

Fun, roomy, and relaxing for my wife and I. And an outlet for our iPhones and Macs.

Loved it.

[FredStembottom]

16. I've got my bag packed already!

I recently took Amtrak from Chicago to St. Paul and even on a train clearly needing more maintenance than it was getting, I rediscovered what I had forgotten. That a trip in a Barco-lounger seat with scenery out the window and places to roam on-board is so many times more enjoyable than a plane-flight (and I like plane-flights) that it's ridiculous!
Now, speed the damn things up! Fer cryin' out loud, the train I was on had to crawl at about 50 MPH most of the way due to basically un-safe tracks (the conductor confirmed this for us when he announced that an upcoming stretch of tracks would be rough and we would have to slow down).

Airplanes just reinforce the personal isolation we all feel.

Something about emerging from pine trees at midnight to see the backs of a little group of houses with a single window lit felt like the most vital medicine. I think we need to see America when we travel to help iron-out our jaded minds.

[xchrom]

17. off to the greatest. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. Be aware the the RW noise machine is on the job.

Republicans are calling it the $8b rail line between LA and LV.

In reality, it isn't earmarked for any specific project.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-stimulus-rail14-2009feb14,0,2367517.story

[BrklynLiberal]

20. Fantastic news.

[enid602]

22. Phoenix

Phoenix just spent $1/2 billion on a light-rail project from Christown (Phoenix) to downtown Mesa. Somehow, I don´t think $8 billion is going to make much of a dent in connecting Chicago with the rest of the country via high-speed rail.

[NorthCarolina]

24. I understand this is for HS passenger rail, but wouldn't rebuilding

our traditional rail system help to shift goods delivery from the roadways to the rail thereby saving energy, reducing road maintenance costs, and helping the environment through reduction of CO2?

[happyslug]

58. Text of H.R 1, signed by President Obama on 2/17/2009

Division "A" (Economic provisions, i.e. Spending):
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/h1/Recovery_Bill_Div_A.pdf

Division B (Tax Provisions)
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/h1/Recovery_Bill_Div_B.pdf

Details on the passage of this bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/approp/app09.html#h1

The transportation section, Title XII starts on page 226 on my PDF reader

High Speed rail starts on page 237 of my PDF reader of this document

Basically the provision that deal with rail basically says the Secretary of Transportation will inform Congress of how the money will be spent within 120 days. Nothing is set as to what the money can be spent on, that is up to Obama and his Secretary of Transportation,

[elleng]

65. We the People won't be 'rebuilding' the rail system;

rails belong to private (publicly traded) freight rail companies. In areas where there's talk of high speed, its by working together so freight AND passenger, which is public, can function with one another in mind.

[pasto76]

26. if rail is significantly cheaper than airlines were last summer, Im down.

Gladly take a day, day and a half or two to get from CO to NC> last year it cost several thousand for me, the wife and one child to fly.

[leftchick]

27. 'plot' is an insidious term

why not 'plans'??

[Quantess]

39. For example, the common phrase "sinister plot".

Images of a mustachioed villain in a top hat rubbing his hands together in evil glee.

[aquart]

28. "Plots"? A negative connotation for "plans"?

[crikkett]

43. That's right. The language is a fnord. Terra! Be afraid!

(If you don't see the fnord it can't eat you)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnord

[WriteDown]

47. See post 44 nt.

[Spazito]

53. See #52 n/t

[WriteDown]

46. Double ugh....

See post 44 for the reason.

[BadgerKid]

29. Cool... but how many and how long are stops? n/t

[devilgrrl]

31. OMFG! What PORK!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[Tyler Generation]

38. Hey the only good pork

Is the kind that makes the wealthier pay less taxes and doesn't create thousands of jobs! Unless yer some kinda pinkie commie!:sarcasm:

[Romulox]

32. Are the majority of these funds earmarked for an LA to LV route?

If so, I am against it.

[Sirveri]

61. No they are not, they're not earmarked to ANYTHING.

The SecTransport and Obama have final say on where they go. Some will probably go to that project, and possibly to the SF-LA HSR project that was just passed in November as well. It doesn't really matter though, since all this spending creates jobs, which creates more taxpayers, which pays for itself.

[Romulox]

70. Many media outlets have been reporting an "unofficial" agreement to devote $4-$8 billion to LA-LV

"It doesn't really matter though, since all this spending creates jobs, which creates more taxpayers, which pays for itself."

Of course it matters. A job in LA doesn't do a damn thing for someone out of work in Michigan.

[Sirveri]

80. The point is that it still creates jobs.

Does it suck if the job is created in LA and you live in Michigan, sure. But they're still creating a job, which is the entire purpose of the bill. Not saying Michigan doesn't need help, but arguing that someone else shouldn't get help when you BOTH need help isn't constructive.

[Romulox]

83. The past 20 years has shown us that LA can prosper while Detroit molders...

"Not saying Michigan doesn't need help"

Michigan has the worst economy in the nation. Detroit is the poorest city in America.

Keep telling me how "it still creates jobs (in LA and NV)!" and how Detroit's homeless and working poor should be happy about that. :eyes:

[Sirveri]

85. I'm not saying they should be happy. I'm asking for constructive criticism.

Just whining that those people over there are getting something and you aren't isn't helpful. Why not actually put a plan into place for some high speed rail that they can work on. Or better information infrastructure improvements. Or electric transmission grid improvements. Or more power plants. Then Detroit too can get a piece of the pie. Instead we've got a republican bitching about HSR in LA and NV, and as usual offering no solutions other than, we should spend less money. Maybe if that Repuke rep from detroit actually spent some time trying to improve her own district rather than trying to bash spending plans she'd actually get something done.

[vinylsolution]

33. Some meaningful rail investment, and not before time....

Here is the high speed train I used to ride in Britain.... 30 years ago.

From city center to city center, at 125 mph. A fast and relaxing way to travel.

[MindMatter]

35. Railroads are the greenest of the green

Their railways are far less disruptive to the landscape and wildlife than highways. Their efficiency is unbelievable. You have probably heard the ads by Norfolk Southern about moving a ton of freight over 400 miles on a gallon of fuel.

There is nothing more ridiculous in our economy than hundreds of thousands of semis plugging up our highway and fouling our air.

[JackRiddler]

36. What a belated pittance...

It's better than nothing, of course. But $8 billion in a bill that sticks another $30 bn into highways? At a time when the supposed energy/transport transformation is top of the agenda? We need to hear figures like $80 billion and more! We need to see railways become the new transport backbone. Stop subsidizing car travel (we do - drivers don't pay for infrastructure, taxpayers we do). If there was a true competition based on costs, railways would be cheaper, but the railway users are forced to pay for the infrastructure, as drivers are not.

[Ganja Ninja]

73. I question the wisdom of building more highways too.

Cars are the main reason this country is in trouble. Their time (at least in their current form) is over. We're going to end up with the best highway system in the world and we won't be able to afford the gas to drive on it.

[FlaGatorJD]

37. In 1983 I did a thesis on the importance of mass transit

and I detailed four barriers to it in the US, which I concluded would
hinder any real advances:
1. Oil and Gas interests and lobbying
2. Complementary industries like steel, rubbert, etc.
3. Auto worship and the over-influence of American auto companies; and
4. Urban & Regiional Planning, the urban/suburban sprawl, which is not conducive to transit.

So except for the fact that we need it now more than we did then, I'm not sure any of
these four have changed that much.

My conclusion was pessimistic then, as I didn't see any change expected, and these
things haven't changed that much, really, so trying to be an eternal optimist, I'd say it
should only take us another 25 years to see the light! (Hope I'm wrong this time)

Ironically, it was during this time, when the 'ol cowboy' Reagan had just cut any measurable
spending on transit throughout the country, while building one of the most expensive transit
systems in the world in his own backyard. Washington DC "Do as we say, not as we do"

[happyslug]

59. You seem to have forgotten one important factor

The number source of funds for local politicians has been and continues to be real estate developers. This was true in the early 1900s when such real estate developers built Streetcars lines to where they were building new housing. The Streetcar line was strictly built to get buyers to the new developments, and afterward such real estate agents abandoned such streetcars which lead to the demise of many of these streetcar lines.

Local Politicians supported such development for its increased the tax base in their local area, so they could keep taxes low (Or even reduce them). The streetcar was someones else headache, even when it was the main way to get around.

With the Automobile, the need to build a Streetcar System ended, but the need to get the state to build local highways became important to the developers who proceeded to donate money to state and local politicians who could build such highways. Maintenance, and even making sure the roads were adequate was NOT important AFTER the real estate was sold, but before then Real Estate developers dealt kept donating money to local and state politician who support the developers plans, even if it meant the decline of another neighborhood or general deterioration of the area. Politic ans needed money to campaign and such land developers were and are the most generous to such local politicians. If you oppose development you get little or no campaign donation and generally lose out in the elections for you can NOT get your message to the people.

Worse, even through Zoning is only Constitutional if it zones for EVERYONE (Including the poor), such local politicians know that the poor do NOT pay as much taxes as the working and middle class. Such Politicians want Middle Class homes in their area, for it brings in the greatest revenue from taxation with the least costs in terms of Schools, Police etc. One way to do this is to zone for cars and refuse to do any zoning needed for any other form of Transit.

Yes, I seem to be getting off my topic, local politicians need for campaign contributions, but such need leads to politicians either working with land developers or making sure they do nothing to upset such land developers, and everything else (including not automobile transit) is sacrificed for those campaign contributions.

[elleng]

67. You are correct.

AND there's a big hullaballoo now in Florida about a Bush conspiring with CSX railroad so they can build a large facility (fergit what kind).

[elleng]

66. That's MetroRail, I suppose;

commuter rail system needed by every city; in fact, a number of real rail lines were torn up in the not too distant past, with a complete lack of forethought about need for transport in the region, so Metro had to replace such.

In fact the sprawl IS conducive to transit, but I guess it depends on how its looked at. In the DC area, a high % of residents (don't know number) travels from suburb to city for work; NOW, also, lots are traveling between suburbs.

HOLY COWS, I just noticed, its SNOWING!!! WAIT for the news! Obama Girls will be out of school, and the Federal Government will be CLOSED!

[AyanEva]

40. Yay!

It's about time.

[BrightKnight]

42. Freight trains are the real under appreciated green machines.

They require 1/3rd the fuel per ton of freight.

A typical truck emits roughly three times more oxides of nitrogen and particulates than a locomotive. Other studies suggest that trucks emit six to 12 times more pollutants per ton-mile than do railroads, depending upon the pollutant measured.

If just 10 percent of the freight moved by highway were diverted to rail, the nation could save as much as 1 billion gallons of fuel annually.

Fuel efficiency for U.S. railroads has increased by 80 percent over the last 25 years.

Reducing the truck traffic by 10 % would significantly reduce urban commuter congestion.

Regulation requiring the use of trains for all long hall traffic when possible would cost nothing

[elleng]

68. Such 'regulation' is not necessary;

freight roads do everything they can to gain traffic, including merging with others and promising the government they'll do all the wonderful 'green' things you say. After the govt. approved a large number of mergers (in the past 20+ years) we've got what we've got; life is NOT simple!

[happyslug]

55. Lets be honest, this will be for more conventional trains

The Chief problem with the US rail system is a lack of Passenger Cars (and Engines) AND less then optimum boarding system other then in the North East. Since this is a stimulus package I do NOT see any of this money going into any long range plans, so forget the train from LA to Vegas, it will take longer then two years to build thus outside the Stimulus package.

What I foresee is purchase of several Self-propelled passenger cars that can be used on existing tracks, upgrading of Passenger depots to permit at hight boarding (i.e. NO climbing up stairs to get into the Passenger Cars) AND upgrading of the tracks to permit faster speeds (I.e. up to 50mph Average speed, which is double the existing 25 mph average speed of most trains, please note this means speeds up to 90 mph as the trains has to go very fast to compensate for the times it slows down to Zero to stop and pick up and drop off passengers).

What I see being purchased are some like the Colorado Rail-cars (produced by Colorado rail-car, which went out of business in on 12/28/2008 (See http://seattletransitblog.com/2008/12/29/colorado-railcar-gone-what-is-next/ for details), but the building and other machinery still exists so someone may just re-open the operation to provide the needed rail-cars).

For example in areas outside of New York City (The Tunnel connecting New York City with Washington DC is to small for such tall passenger cars) you could have built double level cars like this one:


In New York City (and other areas where such tall cars can NOT be operated), Colorado Rail Car produced a single Car:


These self-propelled cars could be installed into use within Six Months, increasing the frequency of trains on most routes outside the North East to the 4 in each direction considered the minimum needed to have a variable line. These cars could run between DC and Chicago and between Philadelphia and Chicago. They could run between New Orleans and Chicago, They could run between Chicago and Denver (On longer trips people will prefer planes OR separate rooms like on the long distance Amtrak trains of today).

Now even on the above trips people would prefer individual coach seats (Once you try one, you never go back to coach, except on short trips of less then a day).

Now Amtrak may opt to buy more passenger coaches like it has today and run them more often, but those would take longer to build (Do to the fact each car can NOT operate separately like the above Colorado Rail car) and thus must be operated as one of many cars. More a long term solution then a short term fix like what should be done in a Stimulus package.

The Chief Advantage of using a Colorado Rail car design is the US has a very strict rule about Passenger cars operating on the same rail lines as fright trains. These rules are very strict and set by Congress around 1913, when steel was the viewed as the best way to protect people in any accident. These rules are so strict that when Amtrak looked to Europe to build its then new (1990s) Acela high speed train, all Amtrak could do was take some concepts and re-design them from top to bottom to meet US regulations instead of buying the system off the shelf from Europe.

Side note: Europe, after WWII, decided that the best way to survive a rail accident was to make a system where such accidents are rare, thus Europe relies on advance electronic signal system to prevent train accidents as opposed to the US approach as assuming such accidents will occur and rely on steel to protect people (The US also requires such advance electronic system but until that passenger train accident in California last year, it was only optional not required, it is NOW required on any track that has passenger trains operating on it). Thus when Amtrak adopted its Acela system, Amtrak did NOT buy it off the Shelf in Europe, Amtrak could not given the US rules for heavy steel frames on passenger cars, Instead Amtrak took European concepts and put them into use in the Acela (And as a completely new Train had a lot of "bugs" to be worked out, but apparently has worked out).

For a look at Amtrak's train Schedule:
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/HomePage

Colorado Rail car had a Passenger car that meet US regulations for use on Fright railways. These provide coach seat only NOT separate For that reason I foresee Passenger Cars like the ones designed by Colorado Rail car to be purchased by Amtrak and then put into service on its more popular non-east Coast Routes i.e. the non-north east routes of Amtrak (For list of Amtrak Routes see:
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/Page/Routes_Index_Page&c=Page&cid=1080072922209&ssid=4

Most of these routes would see an increase in passenger if trains came more often, and the rail-cars provide that ability.

Now I am for more conventional trains, but those will take longer to build, the Rail-Cars have the ability to start service as soon as just one of them are built, increasing speed do to their small size and rapid slow down and speed up compared to larger trains. Other ways the Stimulus package can help speed up trains is to upgrade the stations to be at level so people no longer climb up stairs to get into the cars, but walk at level into them. I have used both methods, and the later is just faster even for people who have no serious problems with mobility (Senior Citizens have a hard time with the stairs, and that slows down the time to load and unload passengers).

As to true High Speed rail, I just do NOT see it coming out of this Stimulus package, the time period set by the package is to short for any real planing for high speed rail. True High Speed rail is something that takes years to design and get built, but the above are all first steps in speeding up train travel and as such can be done quickly to speed up train service.

[ColbertWatcher]

56. As long as it doesn't promote the Trans-Texas Corridor extension. n/t

[leftyclimber]

57. Goody.

I'd also like to see more short-distance "low-speed" passenger trains, which would still reach highway speeds and likely get people to where they're going on short trips in the same time or less than auto traffic.

I'd much rather take a train from Morgantown, WV, to Pittsburgh, DC, Cleveland, Charleston, or whatever, than drive. I enjoyed the crap out of my experiences with GO transit in Ontario and my BritRail pass in England/Scotland. I think if people had the access and the prices were comparable to what they'd spend driving we'd have a lot more people taking the train. If nothing else, for the stress reduction of letting someone else do the driving....

[elleng]

74. Are you in Mo'town?

My daughter is there, and I'm in MD/DC. Would LOVE to have train so we could avoid the drive!!!

[leftyclimber]

75. I sure am.

I work with a lot of folks in DC, and if I could take the train rather than fooling with driving to get there I would be a very happy woman.

Is your daughter at WVU, or does she just live in Mo'town?

[elleng]

76. She's a junior at WVU,

studying special education.

[leftyclimber]

81. Good for her!

I'm a grad student in another program, but my office is only a couple floors down from the Special Ed folks -- she's pretty much my "neighbor!"

I'm really impressed with the Education school at WVU. She's in a great program with a lot of compassionate professors. :hi:

[elleng]

84. Thanks, lefty.

She loves it. She worked at a nursery school yesterday, and sang herself to sleep with one of the nursery songs!

[happyslug]

78. You could have your daughter go the old fashion way and canoe down the Monongahela

The Locks and Dams are NOT only for barges but for anyone else on the rivers. IT be a little harder to go from Pittsburgh to Morgan town (You have to paddle against the current) but it is doable.

As to non-automobile traffic, The nearest train to Morgan town is Connellsville, PA on the Capital Limited (Which runs one trip every day). Charleston, WV is on the Cardinal and Hoosier limited (Which ones one trip on Sunday, Wednesday and Friday of each week).

See Amtrak schedules for details as to the times:
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/Page/Schedules_Index_Page&c=Page&cid=1080072922206&ssid=3

From Charleston you can take the Mountain line bus:
http://www.busride.org/

The "Gray line" provides bus service between Downtown Pittsburgh (At the Greyhound Station, just opposite Amtrak's Pittsburgh Station).
http://www.busride.org/

The only problem with this route, is it runs only once a day, and starts in Morgan town at 10:00 AM, arriving at Pittsburgh at 12:00 Noon, It then goes to Greater Pitt Airport and return to the Greyhound Terminal at 1:30 pm, arriving at Morgan town at 4:00 pm (The bus makes two stops at Greater Pitt, once to drop off passengers and then heads for Downtown, then Second as it goes from Downtown Pittsburgh to the Airport to pick up passengers, then to Morgan town).

That does NOT sound to bad, but Amtrak has only two trains serving Pittsburgh, the Capital Limited (Which goes from Washington DC to Chicago) and the Pennsylvanian (Which operates between New York City via Harrisburg, Altoona and Johnstown and terminates in Pittsburgh).

Going WEST the Pennsylvanian ARRIVES in Pittsburgh about 8:00 pm, and then leaves Pittsburgh about 7:00 AM the next day (Except on Sundays when it leaves at about 1:00 pm).

The Capital Limited arrives in Pittsburgh from Chicago about 5:30 AM and Connelsville PA at 7:24 am. It arrives from DC to Chicago in Connelsville at 9:42 pm and Pittsburgh 11:43 pm.

Notice the time problem. The bus picks up at Noon and 1:30 pm in Pittsburgh, but the train arrives at 8:00 pm (Pennsylvanian), 11:43 pm (From DC) and 5:30 AM from Chicago. The Pennsylvanian then leaves 7:00 am the next day. This is one of the problem when you have only one train or bus a day, it get hard to coordinate their schedules.

Thus if you are coming from Harrisburg, you will arrive at 8:00 pm and have to stay the night and catch the bus the next day at noon. If you are coming from Chicago, it is a little bit easier you arrive at 5:30 am and just have to wait six hours to take a two hour bus trip. If you arrive from DC you have the honor of weighting 12 hours for the bus.

The reserves is not any better, you arrive in Downtown Pittsburgh at Noon, and if this is on sunday, you can catch the Pennsylvanian at 1:00 pm to go to the rest of Pennsylvanian and New York City (That is not bad). The problem is the other six days a week on the Pennsylvanian AND every day of the week on the Capital limited. You arrive at noon, you have to wait till 7:00 am the Next day to catch the Pennsylvania Monday through Saturday (total 19 hours), if you want to go to Chicago you have to wait till 11:43pm (Only 12 hours) and if you want to go to DC you have to wait 5:30 am the next day (17 1/2 hours).

Canoing sounds more and more like the better option, it might even be faster.

Please note, hopefully this is the type of problem Obama is looking to resolve in the stimulus package. Increasing the frequency of the number of trains will solve the above dilemma (i.e. having trains arrive and leave BEFORE AND After 12:00 NOON). The best way (And the only way we can do it today) is to buy some extra trains and engines and put them on the rails (As I has in an another thread, buy some single unit self propelled rail-cars, those can be put into service quickly, you do NOT have to wait for ALL the cars and Engines to be built).

We can even hope for train service between Morgantown and Pittsburgh, but I do NOT foresee that coming out of this Package (Through increase Rural Bus Service is not out of the Picture, Rural mass transit is poor even by US Standards).

On the other hand if your daughter was patience she could always take the old Trolley lines from Morgantown to Uniontown PA, then to Greensburg and then to Pittsburgh. The only problem was the Monongahela-West PEnn Line out of Morgantown closed down in 1944, followed ten years later by the Rest of the West Penn Trolley System. The West Penn was one of the last Interurban Trolleys to closed down.

More on the Morgantown Electric Rail System (West Penn Controlled):
http://wbhearn.com/Trolley/trolleyhomepage.html

More on the West Penn Rail System itself (It was West Penn Electric Controlled):
http://patheoldminer.rootsweb.ancestry.com/westpenn.html


(The Parts near Morgantown are NOT on this map)

[elleng]

86. THanks for the map!

My daughter never WAS, nor WILL BE, patience!

[elleng]

62. Why Lincoln Built the Railroads.

'During the Civil War, American armed force reunited the country. At the same time, President Abraham Lincoln ended and reversed the rule of ``free trade'' or ``laissez-faire,'' by which the London-allied opponents of the American Revolution had expanded plantation slavery to the detriment of American industrial power.

Lincoln's breathtaking economic development program, begun when the country was bankrupt, continued in effect at least long enough after his assassination, for the United States to make itself the world's greatest industrial power. Lincoln's measures remained in force for several decades, controlling inflation through industrial innovation, and raising U.S. living standards to unprecedented heights.'>>>

http://american_almanac.tripod.com/chaitlin.htm

[ThomWV]

69. Notice that the "Politico" is involved and they call it a "Plot" rather than a Plan.

They use simple words to demonize everything Democrats do - and here is a fine example. Think about it - what are the connotations of the word "Plot" and why would they use it instead of a more appropriate word like "Plan"?

[Ganja Ninja]

71. It's about time.

We need a program like we had for the interstate highway system for high speed rail. We should be committed to it for the next 20 years and link every major city in this country.

[KamaAina]

77. Will there be an air connection out here?

We are, after all, the original "Land of Obama". A connection could probably be rigged up at Oakland where tracks run right next to the airport.

[earth mom]

79. I hope this just isn't for the East Coast. There is nothing about the West Coast in the story.

:argh:

[elleng]

87. This story is from Politico.

Better to check with transportation department, or whitehouse.gov, for REAL news!

[MadHound]

82. "I play chicken with the train, play chicken train train, uh huh huh, uh huh huh"

Some how a little Cowboy Troy seemed appropriate here.