USA bringing "The Beast" - yeah - the Presidential limo - to Canada

[ConcernedCanuk]

.
.
.

I think I'd rather a plastic turkey

Is the USA really that paranoid, and fearful that us Canuks cannot protect our visitors

I'm pissed - REALLY pissed that they think they have to bring their armored car up here

From the article:

"But with respect to our (security) measures, they will remain the same."

In other words, it's way over the top.

An armour-plated, hermetically sealed, blast-proof presidential limo nicknamed "the Beast" has been flown in from Washington.

link >>>> http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/588926

Not even here yet

and insulted us

(sigh)

[Raster]

1. No offense to our neighbors to the North. Nope, the Beast goes everywhere "The Man" goes.

[OhioChick]

3. Sure does. n/t

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

2. Honest question: If it were the Pope and his Popemobile, would you also feel insulted?

[JanusAscending]

4. Get over it!

Do you recall the terrorists that tried to get in via the Canadian border, but were caught? Just sayin'! Better safe than sorry. It's our's to lose, not your's!

[Seen the light]

5. Bwah! Is it really nicknamed the Beast?

I'm sure the fundies that are obsessed with his Antichristdom love that. :D

[OhioChick]

9. Yep.

Most details of the car are classified for security reasons. It is completely fitted with military grade armor at least five inches thick for maximum protection, and the wheels are fitted with run flat tires. Due to the thickness of the glass, much natural light is excluded, so a fluorescent halo lighting system in the headliner is essential.<4>

The car can seat seven people, including the president. The front seats two, and includes a console-mounted communications center. A glass partition divides the front from back. Three rear facing seats are in the back, with cushions that are able to fold over the partition. The two rear seats are reserved for the president and another passenger; these seats have the ability to recline individually. A folding desk is between the two rear seats. Storage compartments in the interior panels of the car contain communications equipment.<4> The Secret Service refers to the heavily-armored vehicle as "the beast".<5>

On domestic trips, Cadillac One displays the American and presidential standard flags, which are illuminated by directional flood lights mounted on the hood. When the President performs a state visit to a foreign country, the presidential standard is replaced by the foreign country's flag.<4> The limousine is airlifted for domestic and international use primarily by a U.S. Air Force C-17 Globemaster III.<6>

The United States government also operates similarly designed limousines for VIP guests, visiting heads of government, and heads of state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_state_car#United_States

[backscatter712]

76. The Beast looks like an oversized, stretched Cadillac Limo...

and even GM officially calls it a Cadillac, but it's actually built on a big truck chassis and has a big diesel engine rumbling under the hood. No conventional car frame could handle all that armor...

[hootinholler]

88. Those aren't runflats...

Those wheels have a steel insert that they can run on even if the rubber disappears.

-Hoot

[Posteritatis]

66. Hee, I didn't think of that angle. Awesome! (nt)

[NYC_SKP]

6. In fairness, we don't trust OUR OWN country to protect him, if limo use is the indicator.

He's probably safer there, but it pays to be careful wherever he is.

[flvegan]

7. Isn't that Secret Service protocol when possible?

No offense to our neighbors to the north, but I don't think that it's the job of "us Canuks" to protect him.

And if the SS blindly did, and something happened on your watch...that might be ugly.

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. How many nations have to send an armored vehicle to their best neighbors for their leader to visit?

.
.
.

ONLY THE USA

something to ponder

[OhioChick]

10. Looks like most countries do...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_state_car

[ConcernedCanuk]

12. They USE a "State" car - they don't take it to other countries

.
.
.

and I noticed

Chile uses a convertible

hmm

USA's gotta go a LONG way toward peace before they'll ever think of using a convertible again

Being a warring nation has it's disadvantages . . .

[Pirate Smile]

15. I remember a President riding in a convertible. It didn't end pretty.

We aren't doing it again.

[ConcernedCanuk]

21. I was in school in grade 8 the day that happened - my teacher freaked . .

.
.
.

History class

I'd just done a presentation on the Cuban Missile Crisis in class a month or so before . .

I was quite aware

and shocked

[MADem]

19. Last time we used a convertible that didn't go too well. Don't hold your breath unless you want to

turn blue.

It doesn't matter if every sword is beaten into a plowshare. We'll continue to protect our President aggressively.

If you dislike us so much, and regard us as so inferior to your elevated plane, no need to stick around and continue to toss insults. Really. I know you wouldn't hurt my feelings if you had something better that you wanted to do.

I never thought of Canadians as rude or abrasive until you came along, actually.

[ConcernedCanuk]

24. Did they jump, or were they pushed?

.
.
.

I never thought of Canadians as rude or abrasive until you came along, actually.

pushed . . .

[SeattleGirl]

32. WTF?

:eyes:

[MiniMe]

84. He uses the car in DC too.

Unfortunately, Presidents get assinated from time to time. And the American President has a big target on his back, no matter who it is. Don't take it as an insult. I'm sure they will be using the local officers in the motorcade.

Think of it this way, you guys are so close, that some fundie racist wingnut from the US could drive up there and try to harm him.

[Pirate Smile]

11. Are you kidding? He uses it in the US. I didn't know we should be insulted about it. It doesn't

have to be Canadians trying to kill him in Canada. It could be one of our home-grown nuts traveling up there or any one from outside of the US or Canada who want to cause a whole hell of a lot of trouble for both of our countries. I can't believe Canadians would take this as an insult - and I assume the huge majority wont.

[MADem]

13. Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Can Canada enable the President to be able to communicate with

anyone on a secure, scrambled line, without any possibility of anyone listening in, from a guest limo? Of course not. The Canadian government would have the ability to listen in. That's not acceptable to us. Sorry if you don't like it.

Does Canada have limos that will protect a leader against biological or radiological attack, in addition to the usual bulletproofed/anti bomb blast vehicles? I suspect they don't.

When people say "It could never happen HERE" it usually does happen here. The Canadian government will be put to enough expense providing perimeter protection for the entourage. Personal protection for the principal is always provided by the visiting government, and the degree of protection is up to them, not you, and certainly not the government visited.

If you feel insulted, you'd best get behind every other country that every modern President has visited. And, FWIW, there's usually more than one limo on that support aircraft, along with a load of SUVs that join the motorcade...just for fun.

Our President has robust protection. He deserves no less. You wouldn't want anything to happen to him up north, now, would you?

[crimsonblue]

17. Personal protection for the President is never handled by anyone other than the SS

The SS doesn't let anybody else fuck with their security. They let other countries handle the crowd control and perimeter security.

[MADem]

23. Well yes, that's what I said.

See, in the visit to Canada, we're the "visiting government" and the "principal" is the POTUS:

Personal protection for the principal is always provided by the visiting government......

[datasuspect]

81. schutzstaffel?

[ConcernedCanuk]

18. I wonder - do WE - I mean us Canucks - take all this armor when our PM visits abroad?

.
.
.

somehow I think not

educate me if I am wrong . .

[SeattleGirl]

22. Believe it or not, there are many people in the world who ride

around in armored vehicles. For the most part, though, you would never know it, as they are made in such a way that it's very difficult to tell if a vehicle is armored or not.

As to your PM, I have no idea either. Maybe you could do some searching on your government's website and find out.

[MADem]

27. Hell, "I" used to ride around in armored vehicles.

And in the big scheme, I was not all that important. I was in some shaky locations at times, though.

Mercedes, they were, by and large. Except for the waviness of the glass, and the look of the door when it was opened, it wasn't immediately obvious that they were armored cars. Weighed a ton. Thick glass. Had to get the brakes changed out every "I dunno" miles. My drivers had to go to special schools and go for refresher training regularly. They had to drive well ahead of themselves, because those things were beasts to stop. Upside--a very solid, quiet ride.

I'm pretty sure that most leaders who have any degree of responsibility and even a minor role on the world stage are riding in similar vehicles.

[SeattleGirl]

29. Did you see the show that was on a week or so ago about armored

cars? Fascinating stuff.

[MADem]

39. No, but I'm sure it would be interesting, particularly if it had a historical perspective.

The ones nowadays are much nicer than the ones I rode in, I'm sure. The weak links in those Benz's was often the air conditioning--and there was no rolling down those thick windows. You turned on a weakass litle fan, or sweated!

[SeattleGirl]

41. I do think you would like it.

The modern armored vehicles are incredible, and if I recall correctly, they are much more comfortable that the earlier ones.

[ConcernedCanuk]

34. I realize there are many riding around in armored cars, drug dealers, actors, politicians etc.,

.
.
.

my point was about taking them to other countries -

I'm sure we do not do that, as most other countries don't - I suspect that the USA is the ONLY country flying it's armored car around the globe -

I have no doubt that many politicians expect an armored car at the end of their flight

but TAKING IT WITH YOU

that's a USA thing I think

but now that I've broached the topic

I'll research

so far

It's just my opinion and observation

[SeattleGirl]

36. Well, look at it this way.

Instead of our President flying to another country and expecting that country to provide the armored vehicle and other security measures full bore, he brings his own. And George Bush aside (he did pretty much demand that entire cities be shut down for his ugly white ass), it seems it would cost the country being visited a bit less money.

[ConcernedCanuk]

45. I guess I'm disappointed that President Obama feels it necessary

.
.
.

Canada is supposed to have a reputation for being peaceful

And also a good reputation for it's policing forces

In short

I guess my Canuk ego is taking a shot . . .

But I stand by my other posts too . .

USA has been treating the whole World like it's its own back yard . .

and it's NOT

[SeattleGirl]

47. I don't disagree with you about how the US treats other countries.

But as far as Canada's reputation, yes, it has a much more peaceful rep than the US has, but you also have to consider there is a long, long border between the US and Canada, and many US citizens can cross over. So even if every citizen of Canada could be considered absolutely peaceful (and I don't think they are), there still could be US citizens who come over, and might have rather nefarious ideas in mind.

[ConcernedCanuk]

58. Interesting - you mention USA citizens crossing over, but NOT Canadians running to the USA

.
.
.

why is that?

[SeattleGirl]

60. I only mentioned that because you have been bringing up how

peaceful Canada is, and I was just pointing out that even when visiting Canada, the President is not necessarily safe as citizens of other countries, including the US, go to Canada.

I am curious, though, as to why you pointed that out? Did I miss something?

[ConcernedCanuk]

67. I wasn't gonna answer at first then I thought about it

.
.
.

When we have dignitaries from China, Russia, India, Britain - etcetera

there is not as big concern about security

OF COURSE they bring bodyguards, we do searches on so on -

BUT IT'S MUCH MORE INTENSE FOR THE POTUS

noone should have to ask why

USA is the superpower

superpower has many enemies

[SeattleGirl]

70. And that's exactly the point I was trying to get across in my responses

to you.

It's actually too bad, but unfortunately, it's the way it has to be.

But once again, I don't think it's an insult to Canadians. If Canada were the only country where the POTUS brought The Beast, then yeah, I think it would be an insult. What I do think it is, is a sad commentary that we have to protect him so much.

[ConcernedCanuk]

75. OK - I could be slow -but I'm not dense - I think . . .

.
.
.

:silly:

3am here

gonna crash

thanx for your patience

[MADem]

43. Every US foreign dignitary above a certain paygrade/Executive Schedule overseas

has access to that sort of protection. As I recall, quite clearly, in fact, the Canadian flag and general officers used them as well. So did the Brits, the Turks, and all of the NATO crowd.

It wasn't just Americans behind the bulletproofed glass.

[rtassi]

35. You seem to be going out of your way to find a reason to be insulted ...

If you look hard enough, you can always find one I suppose ... Given the historic nature and dynamic of this presidency however, and the international damage cause by the last ... I feel the increased precautions are prudent.

[TTUBatfan2008]

37. No offense...

but the POTUS is probably the single most powerful person in the world. The government's actions fall on his shoulders. He takes the blame for the government's mistakes. That means the POTUS deals with a lot more hate and death threats than other world leaders. Do you believe Canada is anywhere near the U.S.' level of power and influence in the world?

[MADem]

38. I'm not the Canadian, here. Put in a call to the RCMP, why don't you?

Aren't they the ones who are chosen from the ranks to fill out the PM's personal security detail? They should be able to tell you the specifics of the PM's security arrangements. I'm sure, since Canada is such a free-wheeling, pie throwing, come on in and sit on the bed type of country, they'll be happy to give you the scoop. They'll even tell you what sort of car your leadership rides in.

Get a full run-down of your PM's security details, and report back to us.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. How many Canadian PM's have been assassinated?

[crimsonblue]

14. It goes everywhere.

Get the fuck over yourself.

[Still Sensible]

16. Not a slight to Canada in any way, shape or form.

Just my opinion. Why is the President bringing his car on this trip seen as a slap in the face? Obviously it is in at least one writer's opinion.

Heck, Bush slighted Canada by visiting Mexico first in 2001.

[SeattleGirl]

20. I honestly don't see how you could take it as an insult.

It is protocol, not Obama, that calls for the use of the armored car when going out and about, be it here or in another country.

And given what happened to Kennedy, I feel good knowing that Obama is riding in The Beast.

Sorry you feel insulted, but really, it's not a negative statement about Canada.

[Posteritatis]

49. We Canadians have a complex or two

There's plenty of folks who push, who seek, who strive to find insult in anything the US does up here.

Now, I am insulted by a lot of things the US has done up here in the last several years (motherfucking Celucci! Aaaaaaaargh), but the standard presidential security for a presidential visit? Total non-issue. I can't be upset about this, and I wasn't for visits from the Bush administration.

Well, okay, I was a little for Rice's, but that's because my bus got stuck by the motorcade for a half hour as her insanely-excessive security theatre trundled by. (There were about seventy vehicles in it; presidential motorcades are usually a fraction of that.)

[SeattleGirl]

50. Condi probably brought all the extra vehicles so she'd have room

for all the designer shoes she was going to buy. :)

[Posteritatis]

51. It was truly insane

When the G-7 came to town in the nineties the motorcade was smaller, and there were seven heads of state moving through the downtown core there. This was several times more vehicles and they shut down streets all over the place for it. A few dozen of the vehicles were motorcycles, and I think there were two ambulances.

[SeattleGirl]

52. I understand that the SOS needs protection in other countries, but

that does seem awfully excessive!

[Posteritatis]

53. It seriously was several times larger than what I've seen for presidents

Bush was here a couple of times (and how the cops handled the "Free speech zone" the last time was a thing of magnificent beauty) and his detail - the visible part, at least - was much, much smaller. I never understood what the big deal was for Rice's.

[SeattleGirl]

54. Perhaps she's even more full of herself than even Bush is.

[Chevy]

25. Excuse Me!?!?!

Did you forget the time some lunatic walked past the RCMP at 24 Sussex Drive walked right into PM Chrétiens bedroom in the mid 90s, and his wife had to hit him with something to get him out of the room!!!!! Or how about the time someone walked right up to Chrétien and threatened him so HE had to choke him and push him away.... Or when Mulroney got pied...... wow you have no clue....

[ConcernedCanuk]

26. I remember them all - I was born in 1950

.
.
.

and

NOBODY DIED!

so 'scuse me!

[SeattleGirl]

28. So, assulting someone is just fine as long as nobody dies?

Oy. I sure don't want to live in your little world.

[ConcernedCanuk]

40. No - assaulting someone is never OK -

.
.
.

but living in a bubble - where you cannot walk down the street without security keeping you away from the regular population . . .

well we still do that - so far

our leaders walk down the street like the rest of us

but the USA leaders can't do that

I think most responders here do not get the major difference

and we are not the only country that the leaders can walk around without fear

something to ponder . .

[SeattleGirl]

44. But why do you take that as an insult to Canada?

Seems to be the insult would be toward the US, as it is our leader who is often in jeopardy.

And with Obama, hell, there are some fucking whackadoodles here in the US who would like for nothing less than him to be killed. That's not my imagination talking; it's the reality.

And given what Bush has done to this country and to the world over the past 8 years, I'll bet there are still lots of people out there who would love nothing more than to really hit us where it hurt.

Your country may be different than the US, but I offer no apologies for Obama bringing The Beast anywhere he goes. I'd like him to stay safe.

[Chevy]

31. Nobody Died???.

Ok then... I got nothing at this point..:shrug:

[MrSlayer]

30. This is a big time fail.

You are not being insulted anymore than we are insulted when he uses it here. You are reaching for shit here.

[snowbear]

33. Maybe they know something you don't know Canuk?

.
.

I mean.. unless you're privy to the intelligence they receive.. how would you know it's not warranted in this case?


-

[ConcernedCanuk]

57. I just would like to think that our country was safe enough that armored cars were not needed

.
.
.

It USED to be . . .

[SeattleGirl]

59. Well, as I and another poster here pointed out, there are other,

non-Canadians who could be around, and who may not have the best of intentions where Obama is concerned.

I think that may be one of the biggest reasons for using The Beast on state visits.

[ConcernedCanuk]

61. OK - I give up - but I think it is sad that USAmericans accept the idea

.
.
.

that their leaders are in mortal danger wherever they go . . .

I'm thinking we're back to the Viking mentality . . .

(sigh)

[SeattleGirl]

63. Not exactly. Several of our Presidents HAVE been assassinated,

and attempts have been made on several others.

I know you don't understand it, but it really is a reality for us, and believe me, whether we like a particular President or not, something like that can throw the country into turmoil.

[ConcernedCanuk]

73. I understand it - problem is - USAmerican voters don't

.
.
.

WHY do people keep killing - and trying to kill their President?

it ain't terrorists

it's the money people

has been from

Abraham Lincoln to

James Garfield to

William McKinley to

John F. Kennedy.

they all messed around with money people - from slave owners to the mob

even went for Ronny Reagen

NOBODY WENT FOR THE BUSHES

Why?

BECAUSE THE BUSHES ARE PART OF THE MONEY PEOPLE

Something to ponder

[SeattleGirl]

74. You really aren't telling me anything I didn't already know.

And as long as the whackadoodles are out there, we have to be attentive to keeping the POTUS safe, some more than others.

[MiniMe]

85. They are needed in the US, it is not an insult to Canada

But there are people out there who want to harm him. The Presidential motorcade in the US is ridiculous. I saw him going to the Washington post. They shut down the block and had about 30 motorcycle officers sitting outside waiting for him, and that was before he was inaugurated. The motorcycles were a combination of DC police and secret service, I had never realized that they had secret service motorcycle officers before that. This was IN DC.

[RedCappedBandit]

42. We should trust you when we can't even trust ourselves..

lol

[ConcernedCanuk]

48. That's a good point

.
.
.

Probably the bestest simplistic answer yet . . .

hmmmm

[EraOfResponsibility]

78. DING DING DING WINNER ^^^^^

[Posteritatis]

46. Canadian, but totally not insulted by this non-issue (nt)

[ConcernedCanuk]

55. and you responded to this - why?

.
.
.

By the way I've visited Nova Scotia more than once

Camped in Bay of Fundy park

Visited PEI before their was the bridge/causeway

Father took us camping around the Cabot Trail in the 60's

MY point?

I've traveled all around your part of the world

I like my Canada

I don't like USAmericans insulting us

Bringing their own VEHICLE offends me

They already bring more than enough guys with guns . . .

I'm not big on armed guards

England seems to survive without armed police , , ,

And if you think about it a bit

If people are concerned, and I'm not the only one

then this is NOT a "non-issue"

that's my opinion

[SeattleGirl]

56. Again, we are NOT insulting you.

Sorry you feel that way, but it really has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with keeping our guy safe.

Believe me, we prefer it.

[Posteritatis]

65. I wasn't aware I needed to agree with you to respond

If all it took to make something important was people overreacting to a trivial matter then we'd have nothing better to do than lurch from crisis to crisis in a state of constant affected outrage. This isn't new, and this isn't an insult, and this isn't somehow going to alter Canadian society in any way other than disrupting the flow of traffic during the visit.

All those people concerned or insulted or outraged about this? They're wrong, and I'm not. That's all there is to this one. Go find something important to nail yourself up on a cross over.

[ConcernedCanuk]

69. If trhis is just "people overreacting to a trivial matter " - how come this thread is not dead?

.
.
.

[Posteritatis]

79. Well, for starters, it's full of people explaining why it's overreaction to a trivial matter (nt)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

64. Is it impossible for you to believe that someone other than a Canadian may pose a threat...

to the President? The US's northern border is fairly porous after all.

David

[ConcernedCanuk]

68. Nope - but I think we can protect him without the "beast"

.
.
.

Do OTHER leaders bring their own road vehicles when they visit Canada?

or do they trust us with our own security?

of coarse they bring their bodyguards

but what other countries bring their own vehicles?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

71. What other country is as hated as the US?

How many PM's have been assassinated in Canada?

David

[SeattleGirl]

72. Another way to look at it is that the US is taking the primary

responsibility in protecting the POTUS.

Can you imagine the feelings that would be let loose if another country was given primary responsibility to protect him, and something happened to him there? Yikes, I shudder to think! No, it's better that we take primary responsibility for his safety.

[Berry Cool]

80. Yeah. Why should the Canadian taxpayer have to pay for his protection?

At least we're sending him with security paid for on our dime. He's not going up there and saying "OK, Canada, I expect you guys to protect me to the extent to which I have become accustomed--no matter how much it costs you."

Sheesh. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. I'd like to see how much Canadians would like it if some American nutjob managed to get up there and do harm to Obama because of porous security. We'd have Americans fingerpointing at Canada for doing a lousy job of protecting him, Canadians saying "It's not our fault one of your homegrown idiots decided to come up here and make trouble, and why should WE have to pay for HIS security," yet other Americans pointing the finger at the Secret Service for not making sure he received American-style security on his trip and for thinking "Canadian-style" was OK...yadda yadda yadda.

He's an American president. American presidents are vulnerable, like it or not...and this one especially so. Considering his position at present, with all the lunatics down here who can't handle the outcome of the election and grumbling about how it's becoming imperative for them to take back their country by any means necessary, it's a lucky thing he doesn't travel around everywhere in a bulletproof plastic bubble. Maybe Canadians don't get a keen sense of that, but I can assure you us USAns do.

And don't even TRY to call me "anti-Canadian" for making this post. Contrary to the assumption some make simply because of my nationality, I'm not one of those USAns who's never been to Canada and thinks of it as a 51st state. I'll put my familiarity with Canada and Canadians up against that of the average American, at least, any day, and maybe up against that of some Canadians as well. I love the country, but after a while, I get tired of some parts of it hating my country so much. I can understand why in some cases, but in others it's just a bit excessive.

[backscatter712]

77. It has to be done.

Bush had to have that kind of protection because through his stupidity, he pissed off pretty much everyone on the planet.

Obama has to have that kind or protection because he's black and he's relatively progressive. Sad state of affairs.

And I hate to break it to you, but pretty much every nation these days protects their VIPs with armored vehicles. That's life. It'd be nice if Obama didn't have to do that, but after 1963, we can't take those kinds of chances.

[madokie]

82. If thats insulting then so be it

[Romulox]

83. Drama queen needs attention? nt

[applegrove]

86. Not an insult in the least. I was talking to my brother's roommate and he

said he was all worried about Obama's safety in Canada till he realized how big the police presence will be. He also said he'd be willing to take a bullet for Obama. I think most of us feel that way.

Obama will be safe and bringing along "the beast" is one of the great reasons why he will be safe. Because they are leaving no stone unturned.

I would go to the thing on parliament hill but can't so I'll just have to watch it on TV.

[MellowDem]

87. Wow.

You need to relax. I've never seen a Canadian get so worked up over something! Well, except over the whole Quebec thing. ;)

[ConcernedCanuk]

89. Interesting comment - I live right on the Quebec border - YES - I CAN see Quebec from my house

.
.
.

I live in Mattawa(meeting of the waters) where the Ottawa River(the Quebec/Ontario border) and the Mattawa river meet

And the "Quebec thing" never bothers me a bit ..

But you are right about the "I need to relax" thing . .

wish I could

(sigh)

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

90. We need armored vehicles ...

because we are taking over your country.

All your beers are belong to us!!!11!

Our armed forces have been watching Canadian Bacon over and over ...

You're doomed.

Maybe someday you'll be our 51st thru 60th states. If you're deemed worthy!

:hi: