I'm tired of the "what about me" ethos that seems to be permeating the stimulus talks

[Cant trust em]

There is a culture that everyone needs a piece of the pie even though some people aren't starving. I feel like the stimulus bill and the foreclosure prevention plan are both designed to keep people from falling into poverty. Now the people who aren't in poverty are crying out for help too. Not because they really need it, but because there is a mentality that they should get something too. I'm sure that I'm not getting the whole picture from someone here, but I'm really tired of this kind of mentality.

[Runcible Spoon]

1. There's a contradiction in your OP:

"I feel like the stimulus bill and the foreclosure prevention plan are both designed to keep people from falling into poverty"

and then:

"Now the people who aren't in poverty are crying out for help too"

:shrug:

The truth is, there is very little for people already IN poverty and only a little bit more for those who are on the cusp. Biggest rewards go to middle and upper middle class.

[Cant trust em]

18. Maybe here is a better explanation.

Stimulus is designed to keep people who are on the cusp of poverty to keep from falling into complete poverty (ie losing their homes).

Now people who aren't in that bad of shape are asking for something too. They're not really asking for help, just their share. This is the group that I have a problem with.

You are right though that very little is going to actual lower-income people. Most of what is happening is to prevent middle class people from slipping. I just read this article in Atlantic Monthly about Chuck Schumer and his entire political focus on helping the middle class. There is no voice for the actual poor in Congress.

[AndyA]

2. It was the "what about me" attitude that got us into this mess.

For a change, people need to understand that we're ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. It isn't going to work unless it works for most people, not just the lucky few.

We have one planet to live on.

Americans have one country.

We have to share, be considerate of others, and try to help each other out. It's the only way it's going to work.

[T Wolf]

9. The "we're all in this together" presumes that we ALL are willing to work for the benefit of ALL.

That is certainly not the case.

The same as being bipartisan - it will only work if both sides are willing to negotiate in good faith.

Or the notion of a "fair fight" - only valid if both sides adhere to the rules.

[annabanana]

3. It's classic Republi-speak

Look for it's opposite in the wealthy Dems who say "It's OK to raise my taxes, I'm doing OK"

[JuniperLea]

4. There are a lot of people who lost a lot...

Who did nothing wrong. I can't blame them for saying, hey, what about me. There are a lot of empty 401k's and upside-down mortgages, all held by people who did absolutely nothing wrong. They didn't take out foolish loans, they didn't even buy or sell property during the same time period.

I wouldn't judge so harshly.

[Johonny]

19. I agree

I saved money, I'm not in debt, I wanted to buy a house but was priced out of the market due to the insane run up in price due to the housing bubble. I think there should be some reward for people that actually did the right thing.

[Cant trust em]

20. I feel like in this time that so many people are losing so much

we just have to prioritize needs. The ship is sinking, but some holes are bigger than others and we don't have enough plugs to go around. I know that it's an easy temptation to play the "what about me game", but I'm just asking people to look at the big picture.

But then again, I'm really lucky right now to have recently been hired. I'm young and my IRA has plenty of time to bounce back. I'm annoyed by the people in my position who are looking for a piece of the pie too. I just want people to do an honest needs assessment.

[JuniperLea]

21. That's very noble, and commendable of you

There are a lot of people who aren't so lucky... less than half of a 401k or IRA left, and not enough time to recoup. A house that was to be sold for part of the retirement fund, now with a principle mortgage hundreds of thousands of dollars larger than the market value of the home. I think these people deserve some help too. Otherwise, we're just putting off more of the same until later. Sure, these people can suck it up and hold on for a while, but when they are forced to finally retire, where are they going to go? How are they going to survive?

[Cant trust em]

23. That's my point. Some people legitimately do need and deserve something

But I hear a lot of people who don't really need something, but want it because it's there. I think there is something wrong with the mentality of wanting to get something out of the system solely because they put something in. The purpose of a safety net isn't to give everyone a piece, but to take help the people that need help.

For example, I have a perfectly able bodied friend who is a freelance film editor. The nature of his job pays well while he is on contract, but when his show is over he gets laid off and is elligible for unemployment. He uses this opportunity to sleep til' noon, drink beer and surf. He's OK with this because it's the only way for him to get back what he put in. I think this is the kind of mentality that needs to be stamped out.

[JuniperLea]

25. Then there's the segment of the population...

Such as OctoMom, who doesn't think the food-stamps or AFDC payments are welfare. Yes, I'm with you on that count. I think your friend should hustle butt and get another job when he's done with the last... we have enough surf bums:)

But we can't change people, all we can do is hope that Obama, et al, understand (and they seem to) that we're all suffering to some degree, but it's the degree that matters.

[Fleshdancer]

5. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way

What benefits our economy as a whole ends up benefiting everyone.

[treestar]

24. this is true

Some people are just judgmental. They did OK and didn't make any mistakes and expect reward/punishment. They can't stand to see those who didn't do as well get any help. They want it to be all about personal virtue and demand that since they are smarter or more virtuous, they be rewarded by the suffering of "lesser" beings.

[JuniperLea]

26. A rising tide floats all boats...

That was the beauty of the Clinton years.

[county worker]

6. I agree with you. I hear it all the time.

This one gets to me. "Why help someone who got a Mc Mansion and couldn't afford it."

The reason why is that the more people who crash and burn the longer we all will have to suffer.

Everyday I'm losing value in my home. Everyday more people become homeless and unemployed. Everyday 401Ks are losing value.


We have to put the salve where the wound is!

[panader0]

7. I gotta admit that I'm pissed.

I made about 12K last year, three teenagers, and I'm unemployed. Not entitled to benefits. But if you bought a 200K house and can't afford it, you get bailed out with taxpayer money. Money from those who didn't screw up.

[Kindigger]

13. Screw ups aren't getting mortgage bailouts

from what I heard in O's speech this morning. There is going to be a means test. If at the time you took the mortgage out, it was above a certain % of your income, you ain't gettin' nothin' just cuz you were stoopid. :P

PS If this is true, and if there aren't loopholes in the plan, I feel better. The thought was pissing me off too.

[JuniperLea]

22. That's not how I understood it...

I heard it as, your current mortgage payment is 30% or more of your income, then you get help... If you didn't buy the home recently. What I didn't get, was is this percentage gross or net?

[Cant trust em]

17. I think that there should be additions to people who really are struggling

compared to the people who aren't who believe that since things are being given out, that they should be included for the sake of being included.

I'm all about including more people in the lifeboat, but not those who want a ride just for the sake of taking a ride.

[TahitiNut]

8. I want my free boat ride on the Hudson, dammit!! It's not fair that I miss out because I fly safely!

:shrug:

[panader0]

10. I don't understand your analogy.

Free boating versus flying safely? The Hudson? Please enlighten me.

[TahitiNut]

15. That doesn't seem to be a feat I'm able to accomplish.

:shrug:

[panader0]

16. Hahaha.... Okay, try to explain it then. Can you accomplish that?

[Earth_First]

11. Wait,

What?

[frazzled]

12. That was the point I felt compelled to bring up at the stimulus meeting ...

in my community a few weeks back.

This is about doing something for the country, not about what it would be doing for any specific individuals (and I would like to add that this includes even "poor people," as mentioned above: we are not just giving out charity here, we are helping those in need in order to make the country better and sounder). It did kind of jolt people back into the reality of the situation.

[MineralMan]

14. I agree...

Things are tight right now for my wife and I, but we're keeping our heads above water, and it looks like we'll be OK. Why should I expect something if I'm managing all right? Let's have the recovery funds going where things are not OK. The rest of us can muddle along a bit longer, I think.