Question: I was car-jacked last week and need a new car NOW

[Seedersandleechers]

I have been driving a rented Chevy malibu which I like very much. However, trying to be practical and not buy a gas guzzler I checked into a honda accord. To my surprise they both get practically the same gas mileage 21/32. Anyone know why that is? I really want to support the UAW and buy american. Perhaps I'm not thinking straight and am still in shock?

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. You can sure do a lot better than 20 mpg

My Scion gets 30/37.

[DainBramaged]

40. Maybe she doesn't want a little shit-box?

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. It's a well built very room car

Not a shit box at all.

And it gets great gas mileage.

[DainBramaged]

49. It's Japanese, you're talking to a UAW member now

and buying Japanese doesn't support our economy, it supports their's, but DU members don't really care about the UAW or the economy, any more than Republicants do.

[alarimer]

59. People should buy what's best for them.

Based on whatever critieria they choose and not be guilted into buying "American" (many of whose parts, I might add, are manufactured in a foreign country. And not by union workers.)

Back when Chrysler was owned by Daimler, was it actually an "American" company? Ford owns (or at least used to) Volvo and used to have controlling stake in Mazda (33.4% according to Japanese Law), so what exactly is an "American" car anymore?

[DainBramaged]

63. Keep supporting the Japanese, Germans and Koreans, and by proxy

Shelby, Corker and the rest of the Repigs. Thanks for your support of the UAW and Unions. :eyes:

PS I see ignored people. Too bad I don't care what you write. Or didn't you ge the message when I told you you were on ignore?

[MineralMan]

72. Again, try using information rather than insults.

Why would anyone buy anything from someone who just insults them. Show them a vehicle that meets their needs at a good price. Don't just call them names. What the heck?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

74. I owned an American car

It was a piece of shit that broke down more often than it worked.

[DainBramaged]

76. "I owned an American car"

Throwing shit at the wall, sometimes some sticks. :eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

79. Mercury Sable was the worst POS I ever encountered, sorry, but the car was shit

My Jeep was decent, but the gas mileage sucked.

[madokie]

91. We drove the sister to that auto for many trouble free years and many miles,

and gave it to our oldest son who proceeded to round off every corner and run it out of oil once. Its still on the road now and with the original engine and tranny. Close to 3 hundred thousand miles it has on it today. Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable are excellent autos. I'm Sorry you had a lemon

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

93. I got mine at 70k and it was dead before 90k

It was always well-maintained (it was a fleet car in my stepdad's company). But in the year I had it, it probably broke down on me a dozen or so times and eventually the transmission went. It was replaced, and something else major happened. I donated the car, and ended up with a hand-me-down Jeep. The Jeep was a good car.

[SmileyRose]

97. Color me skeptical.

I'm sure you were told the fleet car was "well maintained", maybe even had their records. But I don't know too many small businesses that can afford to drop kick a "well maintained" good car at 70000 miles just because. Fleet cars get all kinds of abuse.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

98. Um...did you read the part that my stepdad owned the company?

I needed a car, so he gave me one of those. He paid for most of the repairs, too. It would've been cheaper for him to dump it off on a stranger.

[SmileyRose]

109. Like I said

any car that's been ridden that hard, by that many people has to be suspect. Economically, there's no possible way "normal scheduled maintenance" is going to compensate for the abuse a fleet car takes. Someone is going to have to lay out a LOT of extra cash to compensate for the abuse.

I'm glad your stepdad kept maintaining the car for your and I'm sorry you got frustrated, but your Sable can in no way be used to represent the overall cost and quality of owning an American car. Hence the reason for my skepticism.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

110. It was used by like 3 people and like I said, it only had 70k miles on it

[SmileyRose]

113. Our business has fleet cars.

We keep them until the cost of repairs meets the projected cost of replacement. Generally our fleet cars are driven by 5 people in their service life and have in excess of 150,000 miles when sent off to auction - along with all the maintenance records. I always feel sorry for the poor bugger buying the car. When the boss is not listening the guys laugh about taking the car on all sorts of adventures. You ask just about any mechanic about the wisdom of buying a former fleet car and they'll tell you to move on.

Yours may be the exception to the rule. Maybe you got a rare lemon. Maybe yours was built the Monday morning after 2 week shutdown. All I can tell you is that "car nuts" with any real experience under their belts almost universally go for American cars - and some European cars. Even Leno - the most famous of car nuts has only owned 2 Japanese cars out of 100's he's bought and kept or bought and sold. Both of them were purchased because of unique engine designs that did not do well in the mass market, but were interesting from a collector standpoint.

[michreject]

153. Quality of American cars

Have come along way since they stopped making that thing.

[SmileyRose]

94. Editor of Consumer Reports on Rachael Maddow disagrees big time

he flat out said Ford Motor company's quality across the board is on par with Japanese cars.

As I said below, ANY car will go forever if you put maintenance into it. Go to just about any car show and see what old cars people are willing to put the money into keeping on the road. It's rare you'll find a Japanese car there. A few, but not many. The reason is mainly that parts are very expensive.

[DainBramaged]

100. Japanese cars do not sell at Collector car auctions, period

because NO ONE collects appliances. Worldwide, no matter who the auction house is, Japanese cars are non-existent. Even in Japan, American classics DOMINATE the suctions there.

[SmileyRose]

105. LOL - really?

American cars dominate Japanese collector car shows/auctions?

LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

That's pitiful.

[DainBramaged]

114. Here are the greatest collector car auction houses in the world

find japanese cars

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/

http://mecum.com/

http://www.kruseinternational.com/

http://www.rmauctions.com/

http://www.russoandsteele.com/

http://www.barons-auctions.com/

www.bonhams.com

http://www.bestjapancar.com/auction.htm (this is the story about the Japanese "auction" market)

[Kalyke]

116. I own an American car and my husband owns a foreign car.

Guess which one is in the shop every three months?


Hint: it's not mine.

Times have changed since 1989.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

120. The car I had was a 2002

[GentryDixon]

143. I drive a Saturn, made in Tennessee.

It is 10 years old and I still get 33-34 MPG.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

156. Saturns are an exception

The Fords/Mercurys seem to suck.

[tomreedtoon]

115. No. UAW members talk but they don't listen.

And they don't pay attention to the cars they're producing, or the management that's designing the cars they make. And now they've gone jingoist. "Buy our rustmobiles because they're American-made! Hell, if you were in Korea you'd buy Hondas, because you are a patriotic Korean, right?"

[SmileyRose]

118. Oh stop it.

Some people listen, some don't. Some people normally listen fine and but know some things are not worth listening to because the claim has already been proven false REPEATEDLY. A broad brush, no matter how applied, is going to make you in the wrong.

[GA_ArmyVet]

119. To be fair, she is shopping and looking there.

I buy american if after shop they have provided the best product for the best price..hell it doesnt have even be the best price just competitive, but the quality has to be there for me.

That said, I have only owned cars from the Ford and Chevy (sorry chrysler).

[DainBramaged]

139. I commend and thank you for your service

Something that isn't done enough on DU. :patriot:

I too, Chevy's and a few Fords ALL of my life since 1966. My beloved ex drove Volvo's from 84-97 and then went to Chevy. Now she owns a 2005 Mustang GT convertible. My beautiful Daughter has a 2004 Grand Prix. I am driving a 216000+ Mlle 1995 Purple Cavalier, my little cabbage.

[proud2BlibKansan]

137. We've had this conversation too many times

As soon as an American car maker makes a car that lives as long in my driveway as Toyotas and Hondas do, I will gladly buy it. Sorry but I can't afford a new car every 2 or 3 years. I buy them new and generally drive them till they die. I have yet to own an American car that lasted much beyond 100,000 miles.

[DainBramaged]

140. We will not have this conversation again.........

[MineralMan]

52. Maybe clever answers is not what she's looking for either.

So far, I haven't seen you provide any real data in the thread. Just insults.

[bobbolink]

55. Yes, those insults sure make the UAW seem really great, eh?

As Michael Moore said, "Who ARE we?"

[MineralMan]

60. Well, I own an American car, built by UAW workers,

but it would be nice if such people would talk about the vehicles they build, rather than just call everything else a "shitbox." Data sells. Insults don't.

[bobbolink]

67. I agree.

We've really lost it, as people.

[DainBramaged]

61. Yes who are we, that we buy Foreign over Domestic and complain about jobs

DU doesn't support the UAW so what's your point?

[bobbolink]

69. The point is you're not willing over people by attacking them.

Oh, and I'm not "complaining about jobs".

The opposite... I'm sick and tired of "progressives" ONLY talking about jobs, and not caring about those too old or too sick to work.

So, go ahead and vent your rage on me.

Have at it.

Then go consider what you've gained.

[DainBramaged]

73. DU is a lost cause for Domestic cars, I don't try to win anyone over

I'm sick of the negative attitude on DU towards the UAW and Unions in general. We're in this mess because so many sold their soul for Foreign goods. And without jobs, the old and sick can't get well or be supported, so we're at an impasse.

So 'big' of you to give me an opportunity to vent. :eyes:

I STILL see ignored people, nice try

[MineralMan]

82. OK, then what's the point of posting in car purchase threads.

If you're not trying to win people over to USA-made cars, then your insults do exactly the opposite. As I said, I own a GMC SUV. I assume it was built by UAW members. It hasn't been a great vehicle, but that's not the assembler's fault.

I also own a Volvo. Am I a traitor, or just a half-assed American? I await your judgement.

BTW, I bought both of those vehicles used. I never buy new cars. I just don't like the immediate depreciation in their value.

[bobbolink]

106. Exactly.

I can relate to someone's anger.

But, just the need to denigrate any and all....

:crazy:

Oh, and also.... many if not MOST US-"made" cars are actually made in Mexico or other countries. At least, the parts.

Whereas, until recently, because of the health-care issue (which we ALL are responsible for!), Toyota and other parts were made right here. I'm sure this will get argument.... so be it.

:P

[Shakespeare]

122. Heehee...half-assed American...

I'm about to be in a situation just like yours. We're trading in for a new Honda Fit sometime in May/June, and are also keeping an eye on craiglist for an early 90s model Jeep Cherokee Sport 4x4 5 speed (because we do a lot of hiking/camping in the wilds of California, and need tougher vehicle to get around with on weekends).

Jeep sucks out loud now, but those early 90s five speeds are unstoppable workhorses.

[MineralMan]

71. My point is very simple.

Insults do not help your case. Facts do. You call the Scion a "shitbox." Instead, how about telling the OP about some car the company you work for makes that would be suitable for her. What you're doing is whining about people not buying UAW built vehicles, instead of telling them reasons they should buy them.

Then, when people reject your insulting posts, you whine about DU not supporting the UAW. Frankly, if the UAW represents people who insult customers, then I'm in no way surprised that people look elsewhere.

Provide information that will convince people to buy what you're making. Cut out the insults.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

75. Does it count if I have a GM car made overseas?

[MineralMan]

80. Maybe...Let's ask Dainbramaged...he can give you

the correct answer, since he's a UAW member and knows all that stuff.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

81. Because I have a Saab and it's GM, which is supposed to be good, right?

But the car was made in Sweden and the engine in Germany.

[MineralMan]

83. Well, I think Saabs are pretty good cars, but

DainBramaged will tell you that they aren't really "American" cars 'cause they weren't built by UAW members. Still, your purchase supported American workers anyhow. They work at the dealership, selling and repairing your Saab. But, those aren't UAW members, so the car isn't really a GM product.

At least that's the understanding I get. Same with Hondas built in a factory in the USA. Yes, those are American workers getting paid to build the cars, but they don't belong to the UAW, so they're scabs and you shouldn't buy any of those products. That way, those workers will lose their jobs. Then, maybe, they'll join the UAW. They'll still be out of work, but there it is.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

84. I don't know what to do

:cry:

[MineralMan]

87. Well, you'd better do what you're told, I think.

You don't want to get in trouble. :evilgrin:

[bobbolink]

107. There ya go. It's not so simple, or cut and dried. Not anymore.

I have a Toyota whose parts were MADE IN THE USA.

[Kalyke]

117. But those profits go to Japan.

It doesn't help the US economy much.

Sure, they provide crappy jobs to us Southerners, but won't allow us a union or decent pay (for the record, I'm not employed by the auto industry, but I do live in the South, where we're fleeced regularly by the Japanese auto industry).

[liberal N proud]

128. BINGO!

It helps the US economy some because of the local employees but the profits are lost to an overseas company.

[hlthe2b]

2. Heck... I'm just glad you weren't hurt....

The rest is gravy, to me.... Good luck on your choice.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. That's pretty good gas mileage -- the accord is a decent sized car

[liberal N proud]

4. Isn't that the amazing thing...

Everyone has this perception that Hondas and Toyotas are more energy efficient than American cars. When you get down to it there is very little difference.

All it the snow/sales job the marketing companies have done on the consumer. Buy American!

[Seedersandleechers]

7. That's what my gut tells me to do

Buy an american made car. Fortunately, I live very close to work and don't drive much. I use a tank of gas about every 4 to 5 weeks.

[Statistical]

12. Honda Accord is an "american car".

Honda builds their Accords in the United States. Built by Americans on American soil.

Drive both. Pay attention to the details. You have already picked up on the fact that they have similar mpg.
Pick which one is better for you.

You might want to check HP on both vehicles. One may be more efficent (more HP for same MPG).
You might also want to check consumer reports reliability ratings.

Lastly to give you a ballpark idea of depreciation take a look at the KBB (Kelly Blue Book) values of a 2006 version of both vehicles.
One may hold it's value longer.

[Seedersandleechers]

26. Great advise

I thank you.

[Romulox]

27. "assembled" Look it up. nt

[Seedersandleechers]

34. So I think you are saying a honda is "assembled" in the US

but the profits go to a foreign company and the workers are not UAW's. Right?

[Statistical]

38. Even that is faulty logic.

Profits go to shareholders.

Two of the largest shareholders of GM are:
* China
* Dubai sovereign wealth fund.

By using the follow the profits logic should we start a "don't buy GM it is a Arab/Chinese vehicle".

I don't know about Honda but Toyota is very heavily owned stock in the US.
Stock that is owned by individuals, 401K plans, mutual funds, and PENSIONS.

Profits go to shareholders. PERIOD.

[Romulox]

132. Nice job slaughtering that straw man! nt

[Romulox]

131. Nope. A car must be made of all or substantially all US content to clame it is "Made in the USA"

Hondas tend to be "assembled" in the USA, with a large percentage of foreign made content.

[kestrel91316]

36. Hondas hold their value VERY well, and last a LOOOONNNGGGG time.

My 1988 Accord may be ugly now, but drives fine.

[SmileyRose]

58. My 84 Escort is still on the road as well getting better than 30 mpg city

over 400,000 miles original drive train and still going. We nerdy accountants sat down one day and figure out that in 2008 dollars it's cost 16 cents a mile overall.

You'll find a number of very old American cars lovingly cared for and kept a very long time. Japanese cars arrived in the 70's? How many Japanese cars from the 70's do you see at car shows? A few, a rare few. Why is that? I'm told it's mainly because decent parts are cost prohibitive.

A car will go forever if one is willing to put cash into repairs. Car are trashed for economics, not longevity. (exception being destruction of the vehicle by flood, accident, fire etc)

[DainBramaged]

77. Don't bother, this is DU, they don't believe you

They only believe what god ToyHonNis tells them to believe.

[GoCubsGo]

37. Isn't that the truth!

BTW, the Ford Fusion has been getting all sorts of great reviews, as well. It's in the same size class as the Malibu, Accord and Camry. So has their Focus, which gets as good gas mileage as the Civic and Corolla. My mother and several friends drive the Focus, and all have been very happy with them. It is what I will replace my 1996 Ford with as soon as I find a job.

The Mazda 6 is also highly regarded, but the mileage isn't that great.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Mileage is only half the story. In my experience, American cars tend to.. what's the word? Suck.

Sorry, they do. It's going to take a helluva lot of convincing to make me believe that anything coming out of Ford or GM is going to have 1/10th the reliability of a Toyota.

And don't start banging on the "it's your patriotic duty" drum. There's nothing "patriotic" about driving a piece of crap with loosey-goosey steering that breaks down after 200 miles.

[blue_onyx]

96. The vehicles the US companies make do not suck

When's the last time you've owned a car from GM, Ford, or Chrysler? In case you didn't know, it's not the 80s and US vehicles made today are just as good, if not better than foreign ones.

I bet you, and many on DU who worship Toyota and Honda, are the same people who bitch about how horrible Walmart is.

[Warren DeMontague]

121. I don't worship Honda. Given my druthers, though, I'll buy a Toyota every time.

I had mid a mid 80s model Subaru and a mid 80s model Nissan, though, and both were just about indestructible, so I'd put them up there w/ Toyota as well.

Hey, you get props for intellectual honesty since you admitted that American cars sucked in the 80s, at least.

How's this: At one point I had a job working for the fleet Dept. of a Chevy dealership. That experience alone- driving brand new ones all over the place- told me everything I needed to know about American cars. Oh, yeah, and then there was the time a few years back that the wife and I rented a brand new Ford with less than 200 miles on it, only to have the thing go completely dead out in the middle of nowhere. And this was a 2000s era car, not "back when" we all admit that they sucked.

What ANY of this has to do with Mall-Wart is beyond me. I shop at Costco, and lots of their stuff comes from Washington State. So I'll buy American if the product isn't crap. When it comes to GM, Ford & Chrysler- er.. no thanks. Nothing you-- or the folks on this thread trying to make a case that Consumer Reports is "in on the conspiracy", for that matter :eyes: :tinfoilhat:-- can say will convince me otherwise. Sorry.

[blue_onyx]

136. Anecdotal evidence isn't enough to prove your argument

I bring up Walmart because many on DU get all self-righteous about shopping at Walmart and yet have no problem buying vehicles from a company who sends their profits to another country. Many argue that because Toyota employs people here that it is ok to purchase from them but one could make the same argument about Walmart. If someone wants to buy from Toyota or Honda, go for it....it's just hypercritical to then complain about Walmart.


"Nothing you-- or the folks on this thread trying to make a case that Consumer Reports is "in on the conspiracy", for that matter can say will convince me otherwise."

That's ok. Put your fingers in your ears while chanting "la la la - I'm not listening to you - la la la."

[Warren DeMontague]

144. If you want people to listen to you, a good place to start is with coherent arguments that actually

make sense.

I bring up Walmart because many on DU get all self-righteous about shopping at Walmart and yet have no problem buying vehicles from a company who sends their profits to another country. Many argue that because Toyota employs people here that it is ok to purchase from them but one could make the same argument about Walmart

What argument? Which one? My problem with Walmart is that their cheap stuff sucks. And I don't like their labor practices. Could you make the argument that it's ok to purchase from Walmart because they employ people here? Sure, you could. Personally, I've never claimed it's not "OK" to shop at Wal-Mart. I don't do it, but I've got more important shit to worry about than telling other people where to shop. Maybe if you find one of these DU people who are "self-righteous" about Walmart, you can try to draw whatever connection you think you're making. Personally, I don't give a shit where other people shop, I don't shop there because I think most of the stuff they sell is crap, and I can save plenty of Money buying quality goods from Costco, who also treat their employees right, are progressive, and most importantly their stuff doesn't suck.

So there is no connection- NONE- between Wal-Mart and Toyota. It's just not a coherent argument, you've got there.

Anyway, the bottom line in all those cases is QUALITY, as in, I'm not going to put a bunch of money down on something that, in my experience, has a high probability of being poorly made or sucking. Like an American Car.

Oh, did I mention the brand new Ford we rented that died in the middle of nowhere? Well, beyond that, pretty much every time I travel & rent a car, the rental company sticks me with an American car (you have to specially request something like a Toyota; again, that higher demand must indicate the far-reaching conspiracy) and so, yes, I've driven what Detroit has put out at least as recently as 2008-- and in my experience, again, the handling always sucks, the cheapo, uncomfortable interior looks like it's designed for fat people who smoke, the engineering always strikes me as handled in a putzy fashion... overall the technology of the cars feels about 5-10 years behind anything coming out of Japan.

I'm not trying to "prove my argument".. in fact, I think I prefaced my statements with "in my experience"-- for some reason, in all these threads, someone inevitably gets all flappy armed and goes "personal experience doesn't prove anything!!!!" Well, it does to me, Jack. And when you're talking about a consumer product that individuals use, like a car, (and you're unwilling to accept group data sources like Consumer Reports, to boot) "personal, anecdotal experience" is all there IS.

Sorry.

[blue_onyx]

150. You are a good judge of a coherent argument?

You opening admit that you ignore other information and opinions that may conflict with your beliefs. People who blindly stick to their opinions and ignore anything contrary to their opinion aren't good judges of other peoples arguments.

"And I don't like their labor practices."

Like the labor practice of the foreign auto companies who won't let their plants unionize so that workers make a decent wage?

"The cheapo, uncomfortable interior looks like it's designed for fat people who smoke."

You must be talking about the Honda Accord, right? My cousin had an Accord and its interior was so drab and uncomfortable. I was in it for a 5 hour trip and was so happy to be out of it. It had the stiffest seats ever. And the fat people comment...nice. You seem like such nonjudgmental, pleasant person :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

157. For the record, I don't like the Accord, either.

I think they're overrated. And uncomfortable, too.

Look, it's very simple- I can't stand most American cars. That's the bottom line, here. Apparently I'm not the only one, either. I'm sorry (again) if my opinions make you sad. :cry: Really, I am.

[liberal N proud]

108. Been driving a 2001 Chrysler for 150K

I have spent less than $4000 on repairs. Car still looks great and drives great.

Hows that for quality. I will continue to buy American over foreign names. I have never put less that 150K on a car.

[Warren DeMontague]

123. Fair enough. You have your experience, I have mine.

I would never tell you what kind of car to drive. Your call.

[liberal N proud]

129. No big secret

I am seen on the street with it everyday.

[damonm]

124. And in mine, they don't.

I have a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix that just kicked over 100K - the only trouble it ever gave me (radiator) was my OWN damn fault because I neglected the maintenance.

[Romulox]

133. As do most American *people*. Coincedence? nt

[Warren DeMontague]

145. I don't think Japanese *people* are any better or worse than American *people*.

However, in my experience, Japanese companies tend to design and make a better car.

[Romulox]

147. I do. Americans are awful, unreliable, and poorly educated.

They can't compare to the Japanese, that's for sure!

[JVS]

5. They both get the same mileage because the current Accord is much larger than the older ones.

13 years ago that car weighed 750 lbs less

[Warpy]

6. It depends on what you want to drive

If you want a mid size sedan with a lot of power options, you're going to end up with a heavy car with lousy gas mileage.

If you can see yourself in a small sedan with crank windows, seats you move back and forth manually, and locks you push down with a thumb, you will end up with a lighter vehicle and much better gas mileage.

What you drive is a lot more important than where it's made. Detroit makes good small cars, although you'd never know it from their advertising. In addition, some foreign cars are assembled here and qualify as American made as much as Detroit cars with parts made overseas.

Just know what you want and what you're willing to sacrifice to get it.

[Seedersandleechers]

9. You described the exact car that was stolen from me

"If you can see yourself in a small sedan with crank windows, seats you move back and forth manually, and locks you push down with a thumb, you will end up with a lighter vehicle and much better gas mileage."

[RebelOne]

10. I have a '99 Taurus station wagon and I get 22 highway miles.

And it has all the bells and whistles, power locks, windows, etc. And I am very happy with it.

[Warpy]

16. I have a 5 door small sedan

with power nothing and it gets 40+ with the AC on.

I'm happier.

[Seedersandleechers]

30. What make/model - if you don't mind me asking.

Thanks in advance.

[Warpy]

42. I needed decent cargo room

and the car that suited my needs the best was a little Kia.

I would love to have bought either Ford or GM, but another thing in the Kia's favor was that AC was standard and not part of an expensive package of other things I didn't want.

I like my basic transportation to be basic.

[ogneopasno]

8. Get a little Ford Focus. Mr. Ogneopasno's pulling down 35 mpg with his. Union made in the USA,

roomy, solid and peppy. Good luck to you.

[Seedersandleechers]

11. I will check out the focus tomorrow

Thank you for the suggestion.

[zagging]

32. Thank you

[mwooldri]

64. Seconded on the Focus.

IMO it really is a nice car, speaking as an ex-owner.

Sorry to hear about your car-jacking, and glad to hear you're OK. I would recommend though a vehicle with power locks - definitely with the feature that they lock when you start going into motion and unlock automatically when you put the car in PARK (if you drive automatic).

The Chevy Cobalt is an OK car - unsure whether it is USA made but to me it is a boring car to drive. Focus vs Cobalt: no contest Focus wins. However GM have a wonderful feature that if you're worried about carjacking in the future would be nice: that's OnStar. Just mash that button and someone will speak to you, and you can tell them you're being carjacked and they'll call the cops, notify them of your location and they then have the ability to track the car.

GM do make some nice vehicles... but to me the Chevrolet line up appears "boring". I had to car shop after Christmas, couldn't afford new so shopped a couple of years older. I had a rented Cobalt - it just was a boring vehicle. I tested the Malibu, sorry lumpy seat for me and boring. My short list boiled down to a Honda Fit, a Mercury Milan or a Jeep Liberty. I had reasons for picking either three of these vehicles, and went with the liberty even though it sucks gas badly.

Good luck in your car shopping. I know you're going to be happy with whatever vehicle you pick - you're going to rationalize it once you have!

Mark.

[Missy Vixen]

95. The Focus rocks

We drove one when our Nissan (sorry, but it's 14 years old, has 150,000 miles on it, and still runs great,) was in the shop for new bushings.

I would buy one in a heartbeat. Great mileage, fun to drive, and the price tag's good, too.

BTW, we've also driven a Malibu via rental. WOW. That was an impressive car, too! (Watch out if you like to race!)

[serrano2008]

13. The difference isn't the gas mileage, it's 2-3 years from now.

Honda's and Toyota's are generally going to require WAY fewer major repairs after 2-3+ years of use than a Chevy Malibu or other comparible American cars.

So look at your mid to long term situation. If you're just going to need it for the short term, go with the Malibu or like someone else said a Focus. If you want something for 3+ years get something reliable that isn't going to need major repairs after 3 years.

[Seedersandleechers]

17. I don't understand

why you think an american made car is going to need major repairs in 3 years. Where can I find the data on this?

[serrano2008]

24. Take a look in Consumer Reports annual car magazine.

You can get it at your local Mid Continent Public Library. Then, take a look at the reliability report of how many drivers in their sample had to get major repairs done at certain annual intervals.

Also, just from experience with family and friends, those that have bought American over the last 5 years or so all have needed to get a major repair done.

I'm not just bashing American vehicles as there are some exeptions, I believe the Ford Focus is one and there are some others, but especially Chevy and Dodge are just destined to end up in the repair shop for something major after about 3 years.

[Romulox]

29. Doesn't Consumer Reports rely on self-reported data? That's not scientific. nt

[DainBramaged]

43. We're wasting our time here, the dead-ender Foreign transplant supporters

have taken over the thread. I am disliking it more and more here.

[Obamanaut]

99. And yet you stay nt

[serrano2008]

56. Well, it is a survey so there is a margin of error but is there a scientific study that...

supports the opposite viewpoint? Or even a survey?

Sure, my In-Laws make fun of my viewpoint to buy Honda or Toyota but I got my Civic in 2000 and have 190,000 miles on it and the most expensive repair I've ever had to get done was to replace the window roller-upper device for $200. They're in the shop at least once a year with some new gasket-alternator-exhaust-difusing-starter thingy and complaining about it. I just keep my mouth shut.

[Romulox]

134. Nope. Scientific surveys require a RANDOM sampling.

People who self-select to be a part of a survey are, by definition, not a random sampling. Thus, much like internet polls, Consumer Report's data is not scientific.

It's somewhat troubling that "quality experts" are unaware of this! :hi:

[Warren DeMontague]

149. Edit: Delete.

Wrong sub-thread.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Yes, it's all a conspiracy.

Us long-time Toyota and Nissan owners are imagining things.

[Romulox]

135. Right. Math and science are for eggheads. I judge the comparitive quality of autos by GUT feel!

:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

148. You show me some quantitative math-and-science based evidence that shows Ford autos are superior

to Toyotas, for instance.

I'll wait.

[virginia mountainman]

23. My daily driver is a 1991 Ford Explorer..

With well over 300,000 miles on it...Has not needed a major repair in 7 years....(major being over $125), Heck for years and years, all I did was change the oil, and last year all I needed to replace was the alternator. I keep it tuned up, and it runs smooth as silk, and gets 24 MPG with its 5-speed transmission, and yes it is a 4x4.


All makes and models, have duds, and "golden cars" if you get a "golden one" you hang onto it.

I will talk to you later, I need to drive it to work...

[Romulox]

28. Got any numbers to back that up? nt

[mwooldri]

57. I will take you to issue on the Focus.

I had a 2004 Ford Focus. In terms of mechanical reliability it was great. I had one "major" thing go wrong with it and it was a bust piece of pipe, can't remember the exact part description but it was part of the exhaust system and I was able to fix it myself (me not being exactly that mechanically minded). Otherwise oil changes, new tyres and new brakes is what it needed.

The thing that brought about its early demise was a Suzuki SX4 whose owner decided to run the red light. Both vehicles got totaled. The Focus had a little over 77,000 miles at that time. It easily could have done the 100,000 miles even with skipping parts of the maintenance schedule and I had planned to keep running that vehicle until the day it died.

Incidentally I replaced it with a Jeep Liberty - I have my reasons...

Mark.

[SmileyRose]

112. Every car rating organization in the country disagrees with you.

JD Power
Consumer reports
Edmunds
Kelly
MotorTrend
And the list goes on.

Malibu and Focus both get equal or better quality ratings than their Japanese counterparts. Not to mention all the other American cars that do the same. Even testing that goes 100,000 or longer yields similar results - at or better quality for quite a large number of American vehicles.

There was a short span of time early on when Japanese makers had an enormous financial advantage and could afford to put better quality parts into the cars. Now that financial advantage has shrunk and the quality is the same or worse than American cars. Where Honda and Toyota are winning is on the PR front. But talk does not make it so. If Ford and GM ever get their PR shit together, Toyota will be relegated to 3rd class again very quickly.

[RubyDuby in GA]

14. I will tell you that I had a 97 Accord for 10 years and got 282K miles out of it

and I cried when I had to let it go - belt snapped and tore up the engine (I told my hubby to get the maintenance done, but we kept putting it off).

I will forever own a Honda. We replaced the Accord with a CR-V.

[Seedersandleechers]

19. Is that amount of engine miles

unheard of in an American car?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. It is for me

I never owned any American car that lived beyond 100,000 miles

[we can do it]

25. No My Dad's Driving a 98 or So Olds with Nearly 300k Miles

We've had a few last that long, we just did oil changes, brakes, etc.....

[Wickerman]

31. Not entirely

Maybe its a bit of luck, maybe its good maintenance, but I've followed the lead of my depression era father and maintained the hell out of my cars. My Chevy Blazer, 1995, has 220,000. I kind of think it will hang on to 300k. I had a previous Blazer that got 195k.

I've also owned a Toyota Corolla had near 200k when I sold it.

Must be a lot of luck, I suppose, but I like to imagine I'm magical and my cars last a long time because I'm good to them. Of course, when I was younger I didn't do the stuff I was supposed to and stupidly burned through some nice cars.

[AlCzervik]

15. was that Accord a v6? I had a 4 cyl. 2004 Accord and it got great gas mileage.

[Seedersandleechers]

41. Between the both, v6 and 4 cyl,

the mileage wasn't much different.

[AlCzervik]

45. i had a the 4 cyl stick shift, it was a great car, most of my driving was city but i think

i averaged about 27 mpg, on the highway though it was better.

[renate]

18. OMG!

I don't know anything about cars, but I suggest you get one with some James Bond-type fixin's like cattle prods that spring out from the handles at the touch of a button. And a jet engine for a fast getaway.

I'm glad you're okay--my goodness. How scary. :hug:

[Seedersandleechers]

22. passenger front door was unlocked.

Which allowed one to get into the car and unlock the back door to let his friend in. Big mistake on my part. I also don't know much about cars either.

[renate]

138. omG! That scenario just went from scary to absolutely nightmarish

TWO of them? I cannot imagine... those guys weren't kidding around. I'm not just glad you're okay now, I'm glad you're alive.

I hope you're sleeping okay. You poor thing. :hug:

[Control-Z]

20. That must have been horrible

I can't help you with the mileage question. I'm just glad you're ok.

[951-Riverside]

33. You should call your local senator and DEMAND a bailout

Although your annual earnings must be over 5 billion a year and you need to employ over 1,000 people to qualify. :)

[pnutbutr]

35. Ford Fusion

Same price range as the Malibu, Accord and Camry. Mileage is 20/29 but I get consistent 32mpg to and from work 45-50mph and a few lights. Just over 40 miles one way.

[mwooldri]

53. Lots of Fusions however are assembled in Mexico.

Nice car, yes. United States American? Not totally. (I consider Mexican "American" as I consider Canada "American" but you know what I mean when I talk "American American")

[DainBramaged]

39. After doing research, why would you think the MALIBU IS A GAS-GUZZLER?

DU, where you have to ask permission of the DU membership to buy American and support the UAW. :shrug:

[Seedersandleechers]

51. My point is - after doing the research I was surprised the malibu

wasn't a gas guzzler. Somehow someway It was stuck in my mind that the malibu had horrible gas mileage and the honda had great gas mileage. I just didn't understand how the mileage could be the same on both cars. I was delighted to find the malibu had similar mileage to the foreign owned cars. I prefer to buy american and support the uaw.

[DainBramaged]

54. And you just got a heart from an appreciative UAW member

If you get the 4 cyl. model, get it without the 6-speed automatic, it shifts too often to try and keep it in the "mileage' range. Older malibu's with the 6 cyl EASIY get 32+ MPG highway, which I can attest too since I've driven them often on company business.

[Seedersandleechers]

68. Thank you

the hearts and advice is much appreciated.

[Seedersandleechers]

88. Also, how would you suggest a single female go into a chevy

dealership to buy that Malibu, who knows nothing about cars, and get the best price. I'm not good in price negotiations as I'm always too agreeable.

[Obamanaut]

102. FInd a friend, coworker or relative who is a negotiator. If you have

a credit union, arrange financing beforehand with them. Don't buy anything on the first visit.

[damonm]

130. Better still...

Go to www.edmunds.com. They have a calculator there called "TMV" (True Market Value). Look up the Malibu (didja know there's a Malibu Hybrid? Or did I miss that by not reading all the posts?), set it up the way you'd like, and run that calculator - it'll tell you what you SHOULD pay.

Or, if you live in an area with several dealers - go to the dealers' web pages and get quotes for the car you want. Print them out. Take the LOWEST quote to your nearest dealer and say, "can you beat this?" If they say no, walk.

[Seedersandleechers]

151. Great idea,

play one dealer off the other. I bet it sucks for them to know what you want to buy ahead of time.

[Taverner]

46. Used Honda Civic Hybrid

They cost less than the Prius, and they get great mileage

[Alcibiades]

47. I'd get a Saturn Aura

MPG 22/33, 169 hp.

[n2doc]

48. Frankly the Malibu is a nice car with good milage for something its size

Ford Focus is good too, but smaller. I also liked the Chevy HHR alot, but the styling doesn't inspire. Be careful with the really cheap cars as many are made in Mexico or overseas and sold by the big 3. If you want to support the US autoworkers (and I wholeheartedly agree with that) you have to do a little research first to make sure you aren't fooled.

[Debi]

50. I have a 2003 Malibu and the thing I noticed about them is

That there a tons of them out there (good for if you ever need a 'used' repair part) - gas mileage is better than 21/23 (I typically see 27/30). They retain their value. They seem bigger than they are - love the trunk space!

I say buy the Malibu.

[GinaMaria]

62. Glad you are okay.

That's the only thing that matters right now. Give yourself some time to process everything before making a big purchase decision is the only thing I can offer here.

:hug:

[alarimer]

65. I would use Consumer Reports reliability ratings.

They accept no advertising and so are probably more neutral than some other publications. I bought a Mazda based on what they said about it, compared to other similar vehicles. It's about total cost of ownership, really. Make the best deal for YOU.

[DainBramaged]

70. Consume Reports is a crock, their rating are biased and skewed by using too small

a data base. One year, a car is great, the next year, it sucks. Their formula is not realistic.


http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/10/consumer-reports-toyota-quality-sees-cracks-in-its-armor.html

No More Automatic Recommendations for Toyota

Because of its findings, Consumer Reports will no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota-built models without reliability data on a specific design. Previously, new and redesigned Toyota models were recommended because of the automaker’s excellent track record, even if the publication didn’t have sufficient reliability data on the new model. If Toyota returns to its previous record of outstanding overall reliability, Consumer Reports said it may resume this practice.

How do you rely on a magazine that uses biased and flawed information?

[serrano2008]

92. Right...so do you have a better source of reliability data?

[DainBramaged]

103. Wrong question. Ask them about chlld safety seats.

I guess my info wasn't sufficient enough to persuade you to NOT believe them. Oh well.

[DainBramaged]

155. Consumer Reports reliability ratings for cars, trucks, and minivans: are they reliable?

A high response rate is the key to validity. Employee survey findings can be questioned when fewer than half of the employees respond. So how many people respond to a Consumer Reports survey? "Of over 4 million questionnaires sent this year, the magazine received responses regarding about 480,000 vehicles," according to Detroit News. If most people reported on two cars (because most families have two or more cars), that would put the response rate at a mere 6%. Even assuming one car per family - a highly dubious assumption - we have a taudry 12% response rate.

What could CR do about this? They could send e-mail reminders and/or follow-up post cards, or make spot calls. This costs money, but when you have the world's most influential auto reliability study, a little investment in validity makes sense, and could just be a dent in the adveritisng budget. If nothing else, they could try it and see if they find any of the differences which survey practitioners talk about.

People who buy different car models may also maintain them differently.

What causes a person to buy a car might also cause them to change the trans fluid frequently, or not at all. This may result in different reliabilities.

Matt Kennell also pointed out, "the sort of people who buy the same sort of people who are rigorous about preventive maintenance. This isn't too unreasonable to imagine, as it would be characteristic of the same personality type: someone who goes out and meticulously researches all the cars, and thus seems like he or she would be conscientious about maintenance."

A study on American Honda owners found that most cleaned their garage floors on a regular basis...they appeared to be meticulous about maintenance. Could that affect reliability? (Bob Meyer found this article, from 8/27/97, at the Detroit News).

A related issue: Those who select from a manufacturer may have different driving characteristics than those who select from another manufacturer! Some people drive their cars more aggressively than others, which may wear them out faster.

John Greenstreet: "the CR survey may over/understate the reliability of certain cars because the people that own them are not homogeneous. ... many people will have a subconscious need to justify their purchase of a Japanese auto over of a domestic one, and they could do this by believing superior reliability is the reason they bought it. Because of cognitive dissonance, they would tend to overlook or downplay anything that would attack this mind-set. We do see many people who vehemently defend Japan's cars' reliability and smear that of others.

Regarding a comparison of the Acura TSX and Volvo S40, seeing them trash a car from a company I don't like confirmed their bias more than seeing them trash a car from a company I do like (where I might be biased myself). For example, in a one page review, they said five times that the Volvo had unacceptably tight rear legroom. This despite the fact that in the objective measurements published on the next page, the Volvo had as much legroom as any other car in the comparo (there were four) and more than most...They also call the Acura's gas mileage "good," while they call the Volvo's "acceptable." That's interesting, since they get the exact same mileage and the Volvo gets it on regular gas rather than premium like the Acura. They also ding the Volvo a couple of times for sluggish acceleration, despite the fact that it's only two-tenths slower to 60 than the Acura (which was "good" and "peppy"). Two-tenths falls well within the range of measurement error.

"

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

[tammywammy]

66. I'd recommend a VW Jetta TDI

gets excellent mpg and one of the greenest cars out there. But it's not made in the US.

As far as American, I'd look into the Ford Focus or Chevy Cobalt or the Chevy Aveo.

[onetiredmom]

85. I have a Ford Fusion

and love it. Have had it 3 years with 45,000 miles and haven't taken it in for any repairs. It drives and rides very comfortably.

[Lance_Boyle]

125. I LOVE my "gentewagen" Jetta TDI

I would love to find an American car of similar size and shape with a diesel engine. There are none. Well, that's not entirely true. I know Ford makes one, but not for the North American market. Ford's loss is VW's (and Mexico's) gain.

[tammywammy]

126. I have a TDI Beetle

I'm ready for them to bring out a Rabbit TDI. The Tiguan's coming out in the diesel later this year. *drool* I'd love to get that.

[davsand]

86. This last Spring I traded off my Ford Escort Wagon. I LOVED that car.

I bought it as a "beater" planning to drive it for a year or two and ended up keeping for over four years. It had over 175,000 miles on it when I traded it, and the ONLY reason I traded that car was because I knew it needed some pretty major repairs that were gonna cost twice as much as the car was worth.

That Escort hauled kids, sporting equipment, groceries and damn near anything else you can think of, and it did it with complete reliability and fuel frugality. It was easy to park, had enough zip to deal with the interstate, and it was not a "cop magnet." I have driven "sports cars" (My first car ever was a '77 Camaro. My second was a Mustang) and I found that Escort to be just fine to do all the stuff I now do.

I have to say that I get kinda cranky when I hear people going on and ON about German engineering and the reliability of foreign made cars. I honestly think that ANY car that consistently goes over 150,000 miles and keeps on running as long as that Escort did is a marvel of engineering--especially when it sells that cheap. (Have you ever noticed how MANY old Fords and Chevys there are on the road?)

We bought a one year old used Dodge Caliber with that trade in, and I do love that car--in spite of the fact that my Escort Wagon got much better gas mileage. If I'd been able to get a new wagon in the Ford Focus, I would have probably bought that, but the Caliber is fine for what I need.

YMMV, but I just have never bought into the whole "foreign car" mystique that a lot of the car reviewers seem to hold to. Plus, I would be embarrassed and afraid to park a "FPS"* in any labor union lot.


Laura

*Years ago we were doing campaign work and on election day got sent to a UAW hall in the next county to get precinct lists. I watched while a college kid got absolutely flayed by a UAW member for parking a Subaru on that UAW lot. The final words were, "You get that "foreign piece of shit" off our lot or we are gonna go out there and move it FOR you. That car was not made by the union and it ain't staying here."

[flvegan]

89. Between the two, I'd get the Accord. The resale/trade value is much better.

I've heard good things about the Ford Fusion as well as the Malibu. I'd say drive the Accord and see which you like better.

[DainBramaged]

101. Thanks BUD (I'll still give you another heart for owning a Ford)

:hug:

[flvegan]

104. Hey, I know you're not a big Consumer Reports fan, but good news.

The latest issue (Feb 09) did a "Report Card for Detroit). They gave the Malibu LTZ V6 very high marks. They also liked the Fusion SEL, the Lincoln MKZ, the Mercury Milan Premier, the Caddy DTS and the Taurus/Sable. They do still hate everything from Jeep and Hummer, though.

Thanks for the heart, btw. :hi:

[kwassa]

111. I love my Malibu Maxx

kick-ass off the line torque, mileage of over 30 on the highway, about 22 in town, big enough car to carry 15 bags of mulch with space left over ..... feels like a wagon then, and a luxury car the rest of the time. Car fully loaded cost in the low 20s new.

[Divine Discontent]

127. I really like my Chevy barring a few electrical issues, it runs great, I'd hold off if you can and

get an old used car for a year and a half and await the Chevy Volt, get the gov't 7500 tax credit for it, and get a well made hybrid that gets 50 miles on electric then starts the engine if needed after that! (appx. cost $30-35K) or go for a cheaper US built hybrid that's out. good luck, and glad you survived your jacking.


OBAMA INAUGURAL & PORTRAIT ITEMS - WWW.CAFEPRESS.COM/WARISPROFITABLE

[WolverineDG]

141. The Impalas are nice too

I get to rent a car when I have to drive out of town for work & the local place either gives me an Altima or an Impala. The first time they brought an Impala around, I groaned a bit, then when I got inside, I found the seat incredibly comfortable & the gas mileage to be comparable to my Saturn SW2. Since Saturn is being phased out, I might look more closely at the Impala when time comes to replace my current car.

dg

[merh]

142. Check out this site - it may help you in your search.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm

[Snotcicles]

146. Have you considered a Mazda 6? Very nice. And built in Flat Rock MI

By UAW members, hauled by Teamsters, mostly.

[ContraBass Black]

152. I recommend against consulting a political message board about large purchases.

Many the many and varied assertions in this thread reflect the posters prejudices and personal interests, and political positions, with little regard for your questions. DU is the place to ask which car makes you an America-hating, union bashing, robber baron or a xenophobic, stone-age moron with personal adequacy issues, not which car will meet your needs.

List the automotive characteristics that matter most to you by order of their importance, then search the internet to find out which mid-size sedans (since you've looked at the Malibu and Accord) embody those characteristics. This should shorten your list to a subset that you can go out and test-drive in fairly short order. Consult independent reports from consumer groups and automotive journalists to see how these models have held up for other people. EPA.gov lists fuel economy numbers for every recent and widely available car. Consumer Reports has extensive reliability histories, drawn from the experiences of its large member base.

You mentioned that you want to support the UAW and buy American. Be aware that many cars from American named brands are produced outside the United States, and many cars from non-American brands care produced inside the United States. These are all global companies, and profits from your purchase will go around the world, though the dealer will get most of the benefit.

[WVRICK13]

154. I Like the Ford

Focus if you want high mileage and American made. I own a VW Passat and I love it but to be honest I drove a Ford Fusion and it was just as good to drive, handled great and gives good mileage. When the time comes I am buying a Ford unless GM comes out with a clear winner. No matter what I buy I can guarantee it will be American. Easier and closer servicing, lower service cost, lower insurance rates and by gosh it supports my country. When I bought the VW we weren't in this mess or I would have thought twice. I feel bad about my thoughtless purchase hurting my country and will not repeat it in the future. But in the end you have to be happy with your purchase. Do yourself a favor and test drive lots of cars and buy the one you like best, just make sure you give American made the chance to compete. You may be pleasantly surprised, I know I was.