Dear homeowner who is upset that his neighbors "got a deal" while he is paying

[question everything]

his mortgage payments diligently:

Have you heard the news? Many of your neighbors are losing their jobs. Open you local newspaper and find out how this employer is laying off, oh, "only" 100 people, and that employer is "thinning" the workforce by "only" 25, etc. And you may just drive to work and back home but that house down the block has been foreclosed. You are probably lucky that so far it looks nice and "normal" but pretty soon the previous owners will have to move out and the house will be boarded up. And then be vandalized. Oh, you live in a nice neighborhood? Really? Guess what. "Nice" people lose their jobs, too. Besides, burglars will come to your neighborhood once the word spreads out. After all, why bother breaking into an empty house with only copper tubing to steal?

Mostly, though, you may want to read about what even one foreclosed house does to the value of the neighboring houses. And, are you so certain that your source of income is secure? If you have to move, how easy would it be, do you think, to sell your house, at a price that would at least pay the mortgage?

So, stop whining and look at the big picture. Start reading reports, listening to the news, talk to co-workers. You will find that we are in this together, whether we like it or not. And the sooner we remove your neighboring houses from the threat of foreclosure, the better will the price of your home will stabilize.

[bluestateguy]

1. Foreclosures hurt the whole neighborhood

One may think that a foreclosure on his neighbor's house is their problem and their problem alone, but actually it drives down the value of all homes in the neighborhood.

[we can do it]

2. Thank You For This -

Maybe the babies will stop crying "What about MEEEEEEEE?" but I doubt it.

[AlCzervik]

3. 3 foreclosures on my street and one short sale, my street has 22 houses.

i'm all for helping everybody stay out of foreclosure. Out city is suffering like many other cities right now.

[SmileyRose]

15. I gather California really has it rough.

I'm 20 miles south of Atlanta and the boom never came here. The only impact I have seen is new housing subdivision sales have nearly stopped and builders are having to stop construction on unstarted and unsold houses in neighborhoods half done. Even that is not really that rampant. I will say the houses up for sale around here are few, but those that are, are sitting for a long time. 10 years ago the house next door sold in 2 hours. Houses around here hardly ever go up for sale to begin with.

I feel for the folks in previously hot markets.

[AlCzervik]

17. for 3 years running my city was "The fastest growing city in America", i moved here in 2000

population around 60k, our city now has a population of a little over 140k.

The developers ran this town, over built without the infrastructure to support it and now many half way done neighborhoods are just that, half way. i'm 5 years away from having my mortgage paid off, i just want to sell and get the hell out when my daughter finishes high school.

[BOSSHOG]

4. We've been very fortunate

35 years of marital bliss and no money problems (knock, knock.) I hope those who need assistance get it, however I think a little set aside for financial management training would be a good idea. Something that should be addressed at least at the high school level. I had a lot of good Sailors working for me who could conquer the universe but couldn't balance a checkbook.

[question everything]

6. This is a good idea. Teach kids in school about money management,

about responsibility. Give them play money and see how they manage it.

Until a few years ago it would not have worked, as those darlings could get whatever their hearts desired. But now, when even the wealthiest have to - gasp - lay off the nanny, this may have some tracks.

What often saddens me is when I read about people who've lived in their houses 25 years, or seniors who had their houses for 50 and are in danger of losing their homes. If we've ever lived in the same house for 25 years, our mortgage would be almost paid for, including any home line of credit.

Perhaps before anyone signs on a new mortgage or a home line of credit, they should meet with a counselor to make sure that they understand what they are getting into. Of course, in the old days, banks verified income and assets before they extended any loan..

[BOSSHOG]

10. Your example does boggle the mind

We've paid off 23 years of a 30 year note in six years. I'm afraid to pay off the mortgage for fear I'll forget to pay the insurance and taxes. Our 22 year old Niece is getting married next summer. I talked to her on the phone last week, her and her fiance are looking to buy a home. I said stay away from an adjusted rate mortgage. She said, what's that? So scary.

[question everything]

16. Are your insurance and taxes in a bank escrow?

Why? Do you realize that the bank likes to keep a cushion of, say, two months? What do you get from them?

Change the arrangement. Sign a paper that you will be responsible for paying them yourself. Circle the date dues in big red circle on your calendar.

Just my opinion. Am not trying to butt into your business.

:hi:

[BOSSHOG]

30. I appreciate that info

Ironically, I think my lazy gene is the most powerful in my body soemtimes preventing me from doing whats best for us.

[truedelphi]

20. I've seen the same thing - college educated engineers who

Have no concept of what life is in the real world.

When Silicon Valley was in its glory years, (1980 to 1984) they'd entice engineers from uptstate NY to come out to California. Offer them about 8 thou more than they were making. These guys were clueless that

1) number one - no way could you buy a house ever in CA on that extra eight thou
2) they were leaving an area where on their paltry $ 35K they could buy a house
3) the sweet sounding contract that they signed stated that when they reached the 3 yr anniversary with the firm, they would be entitled to a huge bonus and stock options (But what that contract usually meant was that after being used to work 100 hours a week, they'd be laid off at 2yrs 10 months)

People should be forced to endure one college semester of tort and contract law, so that they can take full advantage of whatever monies they receive for their high falutin' degree.

[femrap]

27. There are rich and powerful people

who will NOT allow the teaching of money management in high schools. This goes back decades.

Google Kellogg six hour day...an article in Orion Magazine last summer, I believe.

[snappyturtle]

5. K&R nt

[panader0]

7. I'll whine if I want to! So there!

I'm one of those who is, at least a bit, upset. See, I'm unemployed and have been for a while. Because I own my business (which may fold soon due to lack of work after 15 years), I am not entitled to any kind of benefits. I busted my ass for 30 years to buy my land and build my house. I'm in need too---of a job. I know we are supposed to bite the bullet and pay the bills for those who overspent, for those who didn't read the fine print of their contracts, and I don't want any more homeless people than we already have. But it still pisses me off. Bail the banks, insurance companies, auto makers and the homeowners who bit off more than they can chew. My 17 year old daughter works for Sears and wants to buy a car. She's too young for her own loan, so she needs me to co-sign. But the bank won't accept me as a co-signer because I'm not working. If she had bought a car, then got laid off and couldn't afford the payments, would she get bailed out? I doubt it.

[question everything]

11. I am sorry about your situation

Whenever there is a global policy, some, too many, perhaps, will fall thru the cracks. There will always be good people who should be helped.

Clearly the banks bailout from last fall failed miserably. The idea was to give them money so that they would lend to consumers, and they did not.

Still, I hope that you realize that if people get help with their mortgages this means that, first, they will next pay property tax which your community sorely needs. Also, they may be able to start shopping at... Sears.

I hope that you will be able to find a job. Perhaps at the banks, explaining homeowners how to manage their loans.

[GoCubsGo]

32. May I join you in that whine?

I got laid off of my job of 20 years in June, 2007. The only work I have been able to find since then was a 5 month entry-level temp. job last summer. I also scraped and scrimped to buy my house, which took me until I was almost 40 to do. I tried to do everything right. I studied hard in school and got a Master's degree. A lot good it is doing me right now. I drive a 13-year-old car, clip coupons, pay off my credit cards every month, still watch a 15-year-old analog TV, and buy most of my clothing off the clearance rack. I resent that we have to bail out these over-spenders, too. On the other hand, it looks like I will be forced to sell my house. I hope this housing bail-out makes it easier for someone to buy it. And, I agree with you that we don't need any more homeless people on the streets. In this country, there shouldn't be any.



P.S. I don't resent those soon-to-be-bailed-out people anywhere near as much as I do my former Bushbot co-workers. They all still have a job, which is especially galling since it was their boy, George, who was the cause of my lay-off in the first place.

[Venceremos]

8. Devil's advocate here but

My neighbors are the absolute worst example of irresponsible borrowers. Shortly after moving in three years ago, they spent tens of thousands in "home improvements", all designed to make their house look more expensive than everyone else on our street.

They also bought 4 new cars, "his and hers" tractors, and all sorts of other expensive toys. Then last summer they refused to pay their fair share of our community well repair, because they said they're having trouble paying their mortgage. Yet they refuse to part with their expensive toys.

Both have full time jobs, they just live WAY beyond their means. I think a lot of people are concerned that people who live like my neighbors will get government assistance, while people in true need will get screwed.

[question everything]

13. There are always a**holes who always think of themselves.

Yes, I think that there was a woman on welfare who drove to the welfare office in a brand new Cadillac. This does not mean that the whole policy is bad. I think that if your neighbors have to pay for a well - if they signed such a paper - a lien could be put on their house and their asses can be dragged to court.

You will have the last laugh, though. One rule of Real Estate is never improve your house so much that it is a lot more expensive that the others in the neighborhood. They will never be able to sell the house for what they think they should get. Any analysis of comparable properties will set their sale price or, at least, the amount a bank will be willing to loan, way down.

[Venceremos]

18. The last laugh is here, sort of

they're so tapped out on their "older" toys that they can't buy anything new now. It's driving them nuts that they can't "one up" the rest of us when we have to buy a car, etc.

On the well, our well administrator already looked into suing them. He drew up the contract himself (without a lawyer) and inadvertently left a loop hole that allowed them to get away without paying.

[femrap]

28. These are the kind of people

that the American Culture has given rise to...Madison Ave. loves them.

That would piss me off too...all they care about is themselves and not the community. I'd do everything I could to see they uphold their commitments to the neighborhood.

[Raskolnik]

9. I think it is a mistake to dismiss that sentiment out of hand as "whining"

There are many people out there who are facing foreclosure and financial ruin due to no fault of their own. However, there are also many people out there who made ludicrously irresposible choices, and will be somewhat relieved of responsibility by the mortgage rescue plan.

This isn't to say that the plan isn't necessary, and that financial institutions do not bear a large portion of the responsibility for making bad loans, but the reason that many people are upset by the mortgage plan is not necessarily because they are "whiners." People that made the safe choice, purchased less house than their lender said they could finance, made sacrifices to pay their bills on time, and did everything society would want them to do, do have a legitimate reason to feel some degree of anger in this mess.

[tk2kewl]

21. Hear hear!

:applause:

[depakid]

38. "there are also many people out there who made ludicrously irresposible choices"

And the corporate media almost NEVER fails to find and use those people whenever they write a story on mortgage relief:

To wit:

High on a slope in Happy Valley, Will and Diane Vernon know firsthand that foreclosures can hit any neighborhood these days.

In 2006, the Vernons found a home they thought would be a good fit for Will's elderly mother and offer a nice profit when they sold it in a few years. They paid $625,855 for a new six-bedroom, four-bathroom, 4,000-square-foot house in February 2006.

The Vernons didn't understand they had one of the most toxic loans available. The couple's trust deed shows they made no down payment, leaving them at risk if home values dropped. Their first loan, for $500,708, carried a 6.7 percent interest rate that would rise after just two years. The loan became so notorious it got its own nickname: the exploding ARM.

Two years after he took out the loan, Will learned his monthly payment would rise by $500 to about $4,900. He started calling the company that handles his mortgage payments to seek a fixed-rate mortgage.

A year later, he's still waiting, but not for a lack of trying. When he calls for help, "you never get the same person twice," Will said. "Or the same answer. Or the same requirements. Or the same anything," Diane says.

Now, they're in a bind.

Will, 69, was laid off from his sales management job, and he and his wife can't afford the mortgage payment, which has risen to over $6,000. They haven't made a payment since last spring and figure they owe about $200,000 more on the home than it's worth. They are so far underwater on their home that they may not qualify for help through Obama's plan.

They still have three cars in the driveway, including a Cadillac Escalade, and own their previous home, a four-bedroom place in Milwaukie, where Diane houses her accounting business. Will said they still need the cars.

"We're still obligated to show up for work or whatever," he said. "Can't go any less."

Will said he's hoping the lender will forgive part of their loan, especially since the major banks are already getting federal taxpayer support. But Diane just wants a lower interest rate.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2009/02/lives_in_crisis_lie_behind_ris.html

For every one of these sorts of jerks- there are probably a hundred more people out there who are in trouble for FAR less -or through little or no fault of their own.

[Raskolnik]

46. First of all, you pulled those numbers right out of your behind.

I'm not disputing that there is a mix of people in financial trouble that bear varying degrees of personal responsibility for their problems.

But, just because you think the media over-emphasizes those buyers who bear some personal responsibility for their irresponsible choices doesn't mean that those buyers don't exist.

[zipplewrath]

12. We're in this together

Yes, we are. "Each according to his needs" is what you are advocating. And you are right. But the guy next door is about to get 50 grand off the price of his home because he was careless, and the other guy is going to pay the 50 grand because he wasn't. It's called the moral hazard. And one shouldn't be too surprised that the consequences for the guy next doors carelessness is being paid by the careful guy. We weren't allowed to tell the guy next door not to buy the house in the first place, but now we are being told we HAVE to fix his mistake.

Beyond the concept of "we're in this together" is the concept I keep suggesting to folks is that you just have to acknowledge that today it is your neighbors mistake we are helping with. Tomorrow it could be your imperfections. We send ambulances even to people that were doing something dumb. The moralizing can come after the rescue.

[T Wolf]

14. For those to whom their HOME is merely an "investment" and the only thing that matters

is how much money they think they will get when they sell, it may make sense to think like this.

For those of us living in our home, it is just that - a HOME for us and our family. If the price falls, do I just abandon it because my "payoff" will not be what I wanted?

NO! I live there because it is my home and temporary or long-term financial considerations will not force me to abandon it.

This post comes from someone who has lived for 17 years next to an abandoned house that is an eyesore. Many here would have told me the smart thing would be to simply leave my home because the dump next door is "hurting my property value." What a crock. We have actually improved our home (there's that word again) because we wanted to have (1) a playroom for our kid, (2) a nice yard to putter around in, etc...

We do not let our neighbors dictate what we do to our home.

[question everything]

19. For most of us, our homes are our biggest investments

Yes, it is a home to raise a family, but it is also a shelter. If our neighbors' homes are vacant, they can become safety hazard. There have been several cases where thieves broke in to cut copper tubing and then there was a gas explosion. If that house next to you met a similar fate, you and your family could be hurt, too.

You do live in a neighborhood and what happens around you does affect you, not just the value but the quality and safety of life. One abandoned house is one thing. Five or eight in a block is something that, sooner or later, will affect the kind of life you are striving to build in your home.

[T Wolf]

24. And if aliens decided to build their warp-door in the abandoned home next door, I might

get vaporized by their death rays. But barring that extreme example, I think I'll be OK.

On a parallel track on this subject, there will be disagreement on who is "worthy" of being saved. Each person has their own viewpoint and most think that we have the correct solution. The question is - how to make those decisions and on what criteria.

I volunteer to be national lose-it-or-save-it czar. But most here would not agree with my decisions because a big factor would be the personal responsibility shown by the homeowner. One maybe-too-simple criterion for me would be the price - I would not "bail out" anyone whose house cost more than $???,000 because, in my mind, those folks were just being greedy. Exactly what that level is would take some thought, but certainly it would be less than 200-300 thousand. We have already done enough (too much) for the greedy rich - it's time to put resources toward those toward the bottom of the food chain.

[Missy Vixen]

29. Is that so?

>Exactly what that level is would take some thought, but certainly it would be less than 200-300 thousand. We have already done enough (too much) for the greedy rich - it's time to put resources toward those toward the bottom of the food chain.

Priced houses in the Pacific Northwest lately? How about two years ago?

If you don't buy a house, you are screwed on taxes. If you did buy a house, the median home price in the Seattle area, as late as last year, was over $400,000. The cheapest house I could find at that time in real estate listings (and posted a photo on DU to prove it,) was $175,000. It was off its foundation, amongst other very expensive repairs.

We bought this house eight years ago. It has no granite countertops or spa bathroom, but we enjoy it. It's also the smallest in the neighborhood. We're still making the payments. We hope to keep making those payments. We're also hoping that we won't need to use the bailout, but we both breathed a huge sigh of relief to learn that it was there. As I have mentioned, my husband was laid off in November. He's working full-time to find another job. Of course, I'm sure that will be seen as not enough. After all, the brain trust here would have known to not go into the software industry in the first place, wouldn't they?

Congratulations on the "keep it or lose it" czar duties. I'm sure you'll be great. It'll make you feel nice and powerful to tell others who lost a job through no fault of their own that they should have known better and never dared to buy a house in the first place, too, huh?

[T Wolf]

31. There is a difference between paying 60k for a house and getting laid off from a minimum wage job

and spending a half-million and losing an upper-level exec position. How many of those in the latter group also bought a boat to go with their McMansion and a summer home to vaca at and a 200" plasma tv to entertain their corporate pals? Add in the $20k private high school tuition and designer clothes and two NEW cars for each family member and the poor little babies are now complaining that their payments are hurting them.

An apt analogy is never stopping to fill your gas tank because you do not want to waste the time and money, preferring to add extras to your Hummer to impress the peons who are not as smart and successful as yourself. You happily motor on, believing that a magic station will appear at the milepost where you hit empty and offer you free gas.

To much of this country has bought into the "I can have everything NOW" mindset. All of America has been run as a Ponzi scheme - eventually it will crash. And those who did not "invest" with Bernie et al will now get to bail out the cretins who ripped off the system in the first place.

As for being czar - difficult decisions have to be made. I would rather not leave those to the shits who created the mess in the first place.

[Missy Vixen]

33. We spent $250,000 eight years ago

According to you, we don't qualify for your "bailout". I'm not even going to post the recent house valuation I saw on Zillow; there's no way in hell we'd get anywhere near that amount if we sold this house tomorrow. The only improvement we've made to our home since moving in was to sod our backyard seven years ago.

Just like the Caddy-driving welfare queen, there are lots and lots of broad-brush generalizations of others and their spending habits. There are also hundreds of thousands of people in the Puget Sound right now who are upside down on a house loan due to the precipitous drop in valuation and joblessness.

>I would rather not leave those to the shits who created the mess in the first place.

I'd frankly prefer someone who might weigh all factors before making a decision on anyone else's life, thanks.

[T Wolf]

34. I actually agree that each and every case has to be considered individually, with all variables

factored in. Those factors would include geographic area but also include individual circumstances and behavior.

If you cannot pay your $3,000/month mortgage because of a lost job but you are still driving a brand new Hummer bought last year - I'm sorry but you are not going to get any sympathy from me.

If you quit your job willingly and your house is only "worth" $90k - no dice.

There's a part of me that would want to include party affiliation, but that would probably not make the final cut of decision factors.

I do think that the decision-making needs to be brought down to the individual level, in part to make it understandable and more acceptable to the majority of people. As long as it remains this black box of an enormous government program, it will be easier for the pukes to fight it.

It is mandatory (IMO) to bring accountability and responsibility back to all aspects of American society. The Bushistas have fostered a culture where all too many of us are living as if actions do not have consequences. That must change if we are to get out of this.

The world, as run by humans, will never be perfect or fair. We must do what we can to make it as fair as we can, knowing that we will fall short of the ideal.

[Missy Vixen]

35. Keep pimping your Hummer broad brush

You're not the person I'd choose, simply because you find it incredulous that there are areas of the country so hard hit by this that those who do things like drive their cars till they die and cut coupons are also finding themselves affected.

[SmileyRose]

22. It financial folly to ever consider your home an asset.

It's extremely rare for residential real estate to outpace inflation and mortgage interest costs. This is the very reason why the government still allows mortgage interest as a tax deduction. At best, home ownership is generally financially neutral when figuring in ALL costs.


An example.

My parents bought a house in 1957 for $12,265. Additional costs over 40 years of living in the house, 80% of 26 years of interest (some was tax deductable), new roof, new bathroom and finish attic space into 2 bedrooms, finish basement, new furnace and add AC, new driveway, add 1 car detached garage, tear down and build 2 car detached garage with deck, 40 years of lawncare, lawn equipment, landscaping, minor renovation of original bath, gut and rebuild original kitchen, new gutters, replacement windows, 4 paint jobs on original windows and trim, $1000's of dollars of other assorted day to day repairs, inflation, 40 years of property taxes and other assorted taxes, permits and fees. Real estate fees and other sales costs when house sold for $109,800 in 1997.

When it was all said and done my parents did not come out ahead, in fact, home ownership cost them about $20,000 over 40 years in 1997 dollars. There is, of course, something to be said for "throwing money down the drain by renting a home big enough for 11 people" and not to mention the price one might put on sheer enjoyment of the home. However, purely financially speaking, renting is often the wiser choice, depending on the economy, the housing market and one's lifestyle.

[question everything]

36. It used to be that people purchased a home to live comfortably and to raise

a family. I am sure that your parents enjoyed all the additions and renovations that they did on their house. We purchased ours 6 years ago and have put a lot of money into it - that we will never see when we sell. But it was to make it more comfortable for us plus replacing appliances, roof and siding and driveway where the harsh weather takes its toll.

But the first part of the decade saw a frenzy "investment" where people thought that if they did not jump into the game they were suckers. And columnists who warned that there is nothing to sustain such price increases often found themselves with egg on their faces.

This is why it is good that the Obama plan excludes the ones who purchased homes as investment, or second homes.

Still, he needs to put more pressure on the banks to renegotiate the loan. After all, the federal interest rate now is zero, so the banks can make loans at, say, 5 or 6% and still will have a nice spread.

[NashVegas]

42. The Math

While home ownership cost your parents 20k over 40 years, this one-bedroom renter has paid out well over $120k in 20. Your folks did okay.

[SmileyRose]

47. Yes, they did save on spending, however

home ownership was not an investment.

By the by - Mom did use equity in the house to invest. A year before the kitchen was remodeled there was an odd circumstance where equity loan rates were extremely low and Wall Street was going gangbusters. She came out after a year with about 15% in her pocket - enough to pay for the materials for the kitchen without having to dip into any equity or savings. So in that respect the house did make her money. She said it was a once in a lifetime thing and only a fool would try that under normal circumstances. (I agree)

[northernlights]

23. Agreed -- and I'll add

that the stimulus package will have something that benefits pretty much everyone somewhere, somehow, at least a little bit.

If I understand it correctly, if your mortgage is so high that you're under water (your mortgage is for more than your home is worth), you'll get to refinance too. (BTW, that's more than we got when St. Ronnie engineered the condo crash back in the mid-80s.)

And because you have a job, you are also getting a break on your taxes, unlike those without a job and who have long since fallen off unemployment.

Increased funding for higher education means you'll get some help sending your kids to college.

Tax breaks will help you replace your ancient car, if necessary.

Also help you weatherize your home.

And so on.

So chill out. Job loss can happen to anyone through no fault of their own.

It's all temporary, anyway.

[femrap]

25. The Foreclosure Plan by Obama

does NOT help anyone who has NO INCOME. So if you have lost your job and as a result have no income to pay the mortgage, you do NOT qualify for help. Understand?

That's the only way this plan could work. People are going to have to share houses/apartments with friends and/or family. It's so scary to think of all the people who live paycheck to paycheck thinking that saving a bit for a rainy day is stupid. The American Culture is all about Greed and Buying Now!

[jillan]

26. I hope Rick Santelli's neighbors go into foreclosure so he gets a clue...

Not really. I don't want anyone to get foreclosed on, I just want Rick to get a clue.

[OneBlueSky]

37. a fundamental truth . . . life is unfair . . . get used to it . . . n/t

.

[NashVegas]

39. There's Nothing Quite Like a Good Bit Of Rationalization, Eh?

When you've screwed someone over, first by taking on a loan you couldn't afford - knowingly or otherwise - and then getting yet another one over on them by getting a bailout for your big "OOPS!"

[blondeatlast]

40. From a so-called "responsible" homeowner--what you said and then some. I may have to move

for family/personal reasons which would mean a short sell--and the hope that the bank holding my note will allow me to borrow for a smaller, lower maintenance place. And you know--that is VERY unlikely.

[NikolaC]

41. K&R

:kick:

[ejpoeta]

43. I think this is a good representation of how we got in this mess

and how our 'values' got us so far off kilter. I mean, we are all about 'me'. Who cares about anyone else. Bankers lend money to people they know can't afford it.... some are pushed into these predatory loans, subprime loans, loans .... lenders who tell people to fudge their income, or fudge it themselves. Yet you have that idiot on tv whining about how 92% of homeowners are current on their mortgage and it's not fair that the ones that got themselves into this mess are getting bailouts. wtf!! it's like saying everyone on welfare is a lazy deadbeat. it's just not true.

You know, I am not going to benefit from this plan. But I didn't benefit from the bank bailout either. I bet this guy was so happy about that. I guess we are still the 'me' generation after all. Me me me. who cares about everyone else. Who cares about what's right and what's fair. That selfish, looking out for yourself attitude will be our downfall!!

People like that guy that was pissing and moaning about the mortgage plan on tv who was on the today show this morning doing it some more... they are not really representative of the better part of the US... I hope. Because people want someone to do SOMETHING... and I think this plan to help homeowners is a good one. It may not be perfect, but nothing ever is. If obama was only going to help the ones that are having no problems, then what would be the point!! By helping those who have lost their job or have a reason why they are having problems, maybe the market can stabilize... and then maybe housing values will come back up some..... and won't that benefit everyone!!!

Solid ground. We need to get onto solid ground. We aren't going to get there by digging a deeper hole, I can tell you that. Doing nothing would do that..... dig us deeper. The markets aren't going to fix themselves.... well, maybe they will after the housing markets are completely decimated. When there are no occupied homes left. When people are living in hoovervilles. Everything is so off kilter right now, as crises merge to form a cyclical downward spiral. If we don't step in and stop this, it's going to be a bad outcome.... worse than what we've got now.

[old mark]

44. The idea is to help EVERY ONE by trying to save what's left

of the national economy. This stuff about enforcing bad behavior, helpind the wrong people, even the debt passed to our grandkids is bullshit. GOPs love this kind of stuff becaus3 it distracts attention from the real issues.

mark

[GoCubsGo]

45. Thank you!

The same thing is happening as it did with the auto bail-out. Let's all pile on the union workers and a relative handful of people who got in over their heads with their mortgages, rather than going after the real culprits--the people who run the banks and car companies. And, a nice chunk of those people with those bad loans were defrauded into them. Anyone notice how that never gets pointed out? Funny how we never saw that assclown Drama Queen from CNBC throw a tantrum over the hundreds of billions that disappeared into a black hole in Iraq. Or, the hundreds of billions of unaccounted for TARP money. Where is his outrage? You are exactly right, old mark. This is all nothing more than a distraction that is aimed to divide us even more than we already are. The right accuses us of "class warfare", but they are the ones instigating it with crap like this.