Question: Should vets be given priority for jobs?

[panader0]

On the advice of a fellow DUer, I called the census folks and set up an interview and test. They asked me if I was a vet. No, I said, does it make a difference? Yes was the reply, vets get 5% extra on the tests. I'm not really worried, I do well on tests, but is it fair?

[county worker]

1. Is it fair that I got drafted and sent to Vietnam were I could have gotten killed at 19?

[panader0]

8. I registered as a consciencious objector.

Please don't take offense, but you didn't have to go.

[county worker]

11. Well looking at my chances yes I did.

Don't take offense but I could not claim conscientious objector, I did not want to go to Canada and yes I do take offense.

[madokie]

16. Thank you

Welcome to DU

[panader0]

20. My application for CO was denied in '68

They asked me if I was Amish or Quaker. No. Then why did I believe I was entitled to be a CO? I said, because I don't want to kill people I don't know for reasons I don't believe in. I was a wandering worker then, in the woods, in the orchards, and somehow never got in trouble, even when I never answered my draft board.

[county worker]

26. When I graduated from high school already two of my friends had died

in Vietnam. I was not anti war then. I actually was mad and thought that I could avenge their deaths. After 6 months in country I was anti war but it was not possible to just go AWOL. I came home and protested the war.

[panader0]

32. Not sure what you mean by "chances".

You mean chances of getting in trouble? Hell, if fighting in Vietnam is not your idea of trouble... Or chance of going to jail? Like Ali? Or chance of killing someone or being killed? And for what? Remind me.

[county worker]

34. Like I said I was not against the war then.

I was not afraid of getting into trouble or of going to Vietnam. By the way, I do not have any anger or negative feelings for COs or draft dodgers. They did what they had to do and I thought I did too.

[TahitiNut]

19. Many CO's made excellent medics.

:shrug:

[Adsos Letter]

74. True be that!

Many Seventh-day Adventists have opted for service as combat medics (and in Operation Whitecoat, during the Cold War.)

Desmond Doss was a Seventh-day Adventist CO who was awarded a Congressional Medal of Honor for his actions on Okinawa; Thomas Bennett was a CO (not SDA) who was awarded that highest of honors in Vietnam.

Edited to add that both men, being true to their CO status, did their service under fire without carrying a weapon.

[TahitiNut]

77. Yup. I met some CO medics. They had my UTMOST respect. Bar none.

:patriot:

[Adsos Letter]

81. Yup, indeed!

:patriot:

[Donnachaidh]

2. not in this economy, no. n/t

[DS1]

5. That makes no sense. It's either fair at all times or it isn't.

[sandnsea]

3. Yes and they always have n/t

[graywarrior]

4. I took the test about 3 1/2 weeks ago. Haven't heard a word from them.

I scored high. I am not a vet. There are a LOT of people in my area taking the test.

[leftofcool]

6. Yes, it is more than fair

[cliffordu]

7. That 5% makes up for the time the vet was in uniform, without the

aid and comfort of civilian life....the assumption is that you got that much more time to enhance your education and skills, while the veteran was wandering around in uniform, learning lessons that probably won't be put to any use outside.....

When I was in Viet Nam, my little buddies were back home, drinking and getting laid.

Than's worth 10% right there, dammit....

[MattBaggins]

52. Effin Jody

I hate him

[cliffordu]

58. That Fucker!!! Haven't heard that name in years.....

:rofl:

[Still Sensible]

9. I don't have a problem with the concept

so long as severely under qualified vets are not winning jobs over clearly qualified people. I know that is a judgment call. If two people are essentially equally qualified, go ahead and give the vet preference IMO.

[panader0]

13. But that's not the deal.

The vet can be less qualified and get the job.

[Still Sensible]

29. If it is significantly less qualified, I have a problem with it. n/t

[ldr65]

10. Absolutely!

[Siwsan]

12. You make a sacrifice when you serve your country in the military

The pay isn't great, some of the living conditions are pretty rank, the hours can be awful, you put a number of your civil righs on hold and, even during peace time, there a chance that peace won't last and your life will be on the line. So, yea, I think that 5% is fair due. But the, as a veteran, myself, I might be a bit biased.

[panader0]

15. Thank you, and all of the other vets on this forum, for your service.

[sarge43]

14. Most, if not all, gov't jobs give vets priority. It's called incentive.

Do you believe even we volunteers gave up a fair share of our civil rights and a few human rights, became in effect indentured servants, put up with crap conditions and minimum wage, never knew from one day to the next what we'd be doing and where we'd be doing it, short changed our families when we were able to have one and if we were unlucky got turned into hamburger helper just for stuff and grins? Vets better get at least a few bennies or you won't have any.

[JVS]

17. No. Compensation for military service should come from gov. bennies, not shafting those who...

were not in the military.

[TahitiNut]

21. You don't know what "shafting" is, apparently.

:eyes:

[JVS]

28. VA, GI Bill for college, in many cases pensions, fine. But saying extra points on test is BS

Our military recruits people while claiming to be a good opportunity to gain expertise. To then categorize those who have been in the organization as disadvantaged and in need of being spotted extra points. And I've had friends killed earning that college money, so you can take your assessment of who knows what the shaft is and shove it.

[cliffordu]

44. What happened to you???

You used to know what were talking about and even when I vehemently disagreed I respected your command of your stance.

Your argument is completely backwards. The recruiters lie. Usable skills out of the military is almost always a fantasy.

If you don't understand what happens to someones social construct when they are in the military, combat or not, I guess your points might make sense.

People got bachelors degrees during the 4 years I was in.....


The military ruins a LOT of momentum towards a career. Vets deserve a leg up.

I NEVER got a job because I got preferrential treatment due to veteran's status.

[scarletwoman]

48. " I NEVER got a job because I got preferrential treatment due to veteran's status." Okay, but I LOST

a job due to veteran preferance. I scored 100% on the Post Office employment test, but I couldn't get hired as a permanent worker because of the 10 point veteran preference.

I was a single mother trying desperately to find decent employment. I finally had to give up my house and relocate because that Post Office job was my last viable option for being able to stay where I was living.

Not saying vets don't deserve a leg up, but their "leg up" did nothing but piss on me.

sw

[cliffordu]

49. You have my undying sympathy.

You can have my purple heart, too.

Maybe you won't be so bitter if you piss on that to get even.

[scarletwoman]

53. I'm not bitter. I made it through being homeless. I made it through digging for lost change under

the floor mats of my car in the hope of finding one more nickel so I could buy a quart of milk for my toddler.

The reason I was a single mom was because I had the temerity to leave my abusive alcoholic army veteran husband after 10 years of trying desperately to "help" him. I'm a Vietnam vet, too, just of a different sort.

sw

[cliffordu]

55. Ah, the REAL reason you feel the way you do.

Sorry about what he did to you.


There is no medal for you. THere should be.

[scarletwoman]

59. I didn't want a medal. I just wanted a decent job after scoring 100% on the test.

Honest, I'm NOT bitter. It was all long ago, and I've survived and moved on from those desperate days. My kids are grown and on their own and doing fine. I'm doing fine now, too.

The truth is, it DID piss me off at the time. I lost my house because I couldn't get a decent job. I spent months tent camping in state parks with my youngest kid until I could find a place I could afford -- my oldest kid was taken in by the family of one his friends.

The truth is, I wanted a single mother preference. I didn't see that as unreasonable.

sw

[cliffordu]

61. Sheeit - there STILL isn't a single mother preference. There should be.

And, for what it's worth, I couldn't keep a job for about 4 years after I got home....


and I still live in the woods. I have to.

[scarletwoman]

65. Heh. I live in the woods, too. I tried so hard with my husband. I actually manhandled him into the

car when I was seven months pregnant with my youngest in order to drive him to detox. Me, 5'4", him 6'1". I kept thinking that if I just I loved him enough he'd be okay.

But that's not how it worked out. I finally left because I was too scared to stay, he was too unpredictable.

I never stopped loving him. He died 11 years ago from cancer. He still shows up in my dreams. Not a day goes by in my little cabin in the woods that I don't wish he could be here to share it with me. I still think he could find peace here in this beautiful quiet place. :cry:

sw

[cliffordu]

66. I hope he has found peace, too.

All the best to you, Scarletwoman. All the best.

[scarletwoman]

68. Thank you. I can't believe this stupid thread on DU has me weeping uncontrollably.

Shit...

I just don't want anyone to think that I'm against veterans because I was pissed off that I couldn't get that fucking post office job in 1993.

I'm really hoping you understand, and that you and other veterans don't think I'm an enemy.

[cliffordu]

70. Nah, we're good.

:hi:

[scarletwoman]

75. Thank you. I sincerely appreciate it.

Still fucking bawling my eyes out. Stupid fucking thread... :cry: :P

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

42. No shit.

[mitchum]

18. Sorry, but no

[nonconformist]

22. Yes. And it's still not a guarentee of employment.

My husband has tested for state jobs before, as a disabled vet, and has always scored extremely well besides the bonus for vets.

Still, nada.

[TacticalPeek]

23. Yes.

Going forward one might work to change the deal if desired, but I'd say it ain't broke so don't fix it.

Why not consider serving a hitch? No? Well, the bennies are one of the things some people look at as incentive, besides the patriotic angle, etc.

[GentryDixon]

24. This has always been the case for Government. jobs

If you apply for a Government job, it gives you the extra 5 points. So yes, I suppose with a Government job you do have the right to an advantage. I worked for DoD, and I did not resent the extra points for the vets. They served our Country directly, I served our Country vicariously.

[Urban Prairie]

25. They do at the USPS

About a dozen vets who took the postal examination at the same time that I did, were hired with lower test scores than me, and MORE than a year sooner. I eventually figured that I was not going to get hired after a year passed, then after about another 9 months passed, I was offered a casual (temporary) job by the USPS, which I turned down, since I was already making more than 6 bucks an hour. After ANOTHER 6 months passed I was finally offered a permanent job as a part-time flexible, which I accepted.

The timing of my being hired did affect my chances for becoming a FT regular for quite a few years more than average at the facility that I worked in. Was it fair that they got veteran preference? I suppose that they thought so, but as far as their work ethic, it wasn't any better or worse than the employees who never served in the military, IMO.

[ThomWV]

27. Yes, I think it is a pretty small thanks to give vets a little leg-up for Fed jobs

I don't know what the states do but its supposed to count for Federal hiring.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. Starship Troopers

had that theme in Heinlein's book. I just wish we would get over
rewarding militarism in of our society.

That being said as it stands right now I'm not against it that much
but want it to change.

[sarge43]

31. The book didn't say that. Vets got no more benefits than civilians

who volunteered for gov't service. They were franchised to vote and were able to hold public office, nothing more. Further, unlike civilian volunteers who only had to serve two years to be franchised, military service was 20 years.

[Posteritatis]

39. Nah, they were both two (or three or something in that range)

The main character reupped for a twenty-year term, though.

[sarge43]

40. Off to dig up book. n/t

[WCIL]

33. I have to vote yes

My dad was hired by the post office in 1973. He got almost a perfect score on the test, and the extra points pushed him over 100%. He joined the Marines at 17, had long separations from us (1967-1968 in Vietnam, 1971-1972 in Japan), made almost no money, and did a lot of things I hope my own son or daughter never have to do. A few extra points on the civil service test seem like an ok deal to me.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

35. The compensation of former soldiers should come from all taxpayers, not just their future employers.

If you believe that former soldiers should be treated better than they are, a better way of doing it is to pay them more/give them more pensions, rather than to compel people to employ them in preference to better-qualified competitors.

[ThomWV]

36. It only applies to the Federal Government when it hires, not private companies

A private company might give preference if it wants to, but the Federal Government is required by law to give that little bit of preference when hiring or promoting.

[soothsayer]

37. they already do for postal jobs. Lots of PSTDvietnam vets coincided with the 'going postal' stuff.

[FarCenter]

38. If they were in combat, yes

Otherwise, no.

There should be a difference between serving in an infantry company in Afghanistan versus serving in a country where there is no combat going on or in a branch that is not exposed to danger.

[scarletwoman]

41. I scored 100% on the Post Office test in 1993 but I couldn't get hired as a permanent worker because

of the 10 point preference given to vets. Truth is, it really pissed me off. I was a single mother living in a rural area who really needed that job. The only reason I was a single mother was because I had to leave my abusive alcoholic army veteran husband, who subsequently disappeared and paid no child support.

I wondered why the hell there wasn't a single mother preference. Is raising the next generation less important than signing on to be the muscle for Imperialism?

sw

[Ichingcarpenter]

54. I scored 100% too and didn't get the job

I scored higher than anyone in my testing group but with the 5 and even 10 points they gave
I didn't get the job

[tabasco]

43. Yes.

If it's a government job, you bet your ass.

[Stinky The Clown]

45. "Fair"? Who cares? ............. "Deserved"? Absolutely

[Synicus Maximus]

46. Yes

Vets who served in the Air Force between 1965 and 1970 should be given priority for all jobs.

[cliffordu]

47. I love this thread. There are actually people here blaming their inability to

get a fucking job on Veterans.

Seems like this argument used to blame African Americans, Hispanics, Lithuanians, Bolsheviks, the Chinese, women and anyone else that stood in the way of THEIR entitlement to explain their half assed lives.

[TahitiNut]

50. It's strange. Usually people with such antipathy to vets have the minimal sense to STFU.

Not on DU, it seems. :puke:

[cliffordu]

56. Yep - the protection of the innertubes makes all kinds brave enough to speak

their little jealousies and predjudices.


I give them all a kiss:


:hurts:

[Posteritatis]

60. It comes and goes

I was lurking for awhile before I actually started posting here, and I remember seeing a few spurts of "anyone in or formerly the military is ipso facto evil" before. It's not that big of a stretch to extend that to "damned vet'runs, stealing Merkun jobs!" Ugh.

(Also, nice catch with the comparisons there, cliffordu! I should've noticed that.)

[cliffordu]

62. Thanks!!!

:patriot:

[arcadian]

69. Yeah, we owe everything to vets.

and should just take our opinions and shut the fuck up. I thought you fought for my freedom of speech.:sarcasm:

The only social welfare program in this country is military service and quite frankly a lot of people are sick of it.

[cliffordu]

71. Yeah....how many people care what the fuck you think, anyway??

I would never tell you to stfu, sparky, cause

every time you open your trap you make the argument for the draft.

THAT would shut your smug fucking mug up fo sho.

:hurts:

[arcadian]

80. Is this that internet tough guy syndrome you were talking about upthread?

Nice display. :eyes:

[cliffordu]

82. Yep, that's me, the innernet tough guy.

:rofl:

Apparently you run the branch of the innernet intellectual.

[MattBaggins]

51. As a vet... No we should not get priority NT

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL... yes. And I have not served. n/t

[leftyclimber]

63. Three reasons, IMO:

1. They have been government employees once, and therefore have some idea how to work inside the system. It can be pretty weird.

2. As such prior government employees, they lived in lousy conditions, made little money, and gave up opportunities for advancement and earning that they might have had had they not enlisted.

3. They got shot up with experimental drugs, drank tainted water, were exposed to depleted uranium, got shot at, watched their friends get blown up, and had otherwise shitty experiences that those of us that weren't in that line of work did not.

Give 'em priority. And I say that as someone with pretty good odds of NOT getting a government job because of the influx of recent veterans.

[BlooInBloo]

64. Wow. You're shitty.

[cliffordu]

67. That's why I like you Bloo - always direct and to the point.

:rofl:


:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

78. :)

[panader0]

83. What in the OP do you find shitty?

I merely asked others opinions without saying what I thought. Jeez.......

[treestar]

72. No, good grief we do not have classes here

We do not have privileged classes by law. Sheesh!

There are plenty of benefits to being in the military. Health care and education. And not everyone can serve in the military.

I get annoyed enough by the "I was in the military, therefore you have to defer to my opinions on wars."

[TahitiNut]

76. Wow! Clueless much?

:puke:

You sound like Rumsfeld describing Gitmo.

:puke: :puke:

[Kansas Wyatt]

73. No, it discriminates against those who were denied entry in the armed forces....

Due to medical reasons. After all, millions were already denied the opportunity to choose a career in the military, so now they have the deck stacked against them too?

By the way, back in the 80s, I wrote the Pentagon twice about accepting a diabetic. They said, absolutely not and not under any circumstances.

[PufPuf23]

79. Some times, some jobs

My brain roiled over this thread being Vietnam age but not a Vet and a Fed employee from 1969-1985.

I have a soft spot in my heart for enlisted veterans especially those drafted or forced by economics into military.