interesting prediction....Citi bank and BOA are goin down within 60 days maybe lots sooner

[ORDagnabbit]

Citigroup (C) and Bank of America (BAC) won’t live to see May. The government will take them over within the next 60 days. The announcement may come as soon as tomorrow evening.

If there’s one thing our readers know, it’s that ChartingStocks.net has made some bold calls in the past which seemed controversial and highly unlikely at the time. Our January 2007 post warned of the coming stock market crash at a time when the market was making new all time highs. In February 2007 we warned about the breakdown of the brokerage stocks and singled out Bear Stearns (Trading at $160), Merrill Lynch (Trading at $87), and Morgan Stanley (Trading at 78). In September 2007, we warned of a selloff in the coming weeks. The market peak and decline began 4 weeks later.

We’re going to make another bold prediction. Bank of America and Citigroup won’t live to see May. The two banks will be nationalized in the coming weeks, and we think that the announcement can come as soon as tomorrow evening (Friday evenings are when major bank announcements and failures occur).


more at the link....
http://www.chartingstocks.net/2009/02/gone-in-60-days-citi-and-bank-of-america-wont-live-to-see-may/

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised

Citi is down to what, $2? I want our escrow certificate as a historical artifact. I'm riding Citi all the way down to zero, baby!

[NMDemDist2]

2. k&N

:wow:

but it makes sense to me

you may want to x-post this to the Economy forum

[defendandprotect]

3. We should start charging for NATIONALIZING capitalism . . .!!!!

Am a little confused as to whether BOA bought out Merril Lynch?

Wasn't that happening?

[truedelphi]

19. That made me realize how happy it would make me to

Force the execs at both companies to have to apply for our Bailout monies, and then offer them an enrollment fee, a yearly membership fee, and monthly penalties.

[rpannier]

4. I have credit cards and a loan through BofA

This is interesting
I'll be watching this closely

Thanks

[murielm99]

15. I have a student loan through Citi.

What do you think will happen?

[defendandprotect]

23. Student loans are a definite credit problem for the nation . . .

and some people are trying to get together to petition Congress to set

"Statute of Limitation" on those loans --

Formerly it was 6 years!!!

Many families and grads are paying these things for 15-20 years!!!

You'll find some info on those groups on the internet --

Please, join in!

[ellie]

43. My mortgage and credit cards

are through Citi. I guess I will be sending myself a mortgage check every month?!

[Blackhatjack]

5. IF either fails there will be a huge run on the others....

Just like the Madoff Ponzi scheme exposure drew attention to other suspect funds, if either Bank of America or Citigroup goes down there will be a lot of questioning as to what the others have not revealed, and if they will be next.

[David Dunham]

6. This is a crock. It will not happen.

[JackRiddler]

17. Cut out the nonsense people! Bear Stearns is solid as a rock!

[ORDagnabbit]

18. as the poster said.. .ruh roh

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x57633

[jtbrick]

8. Bingo!

If a Friday night surprise were to happen I wouldn't be surprised to see a bank holiday declared over the weekend. Isn't that what FDR did shortly after his 1st inauguration?

[truedelphi]

20. The answer as to what has not been revealed is that the sinkhole

I smassive and extends to the deths of the earth's core.

155 to 550 Trillion dollars worth of derivatives to be paid off. The tentacles of all this de-regulated gambling or legalizing the banks positioning themselves as casinos minus the free drinks and cheap steaks got all the banks into this mess. And the pretense that it was a mere problem with first ONLY Bear Stearns and then Only AIG etc, was a mere pretence.

[defendandprotect]

24. Not to downplay the problem . . . but the problem is unregulated capitalism . . .!!!

And still no movement to RE-REGULATE capitalism . . . ? How can that be?

No penalties on these banks, hedge funds -- ??

No movement to put a "Statute of Limitations" on student loans which was 6 years

and now infinite--!!

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime.

Let's remember, capitalism is only a few hundred years old --

and it's intended to move a nation's wealth and natural resources from the many

to the few -- and it does that exceedingly well.

The world got along quite well before the invention of a portable dollar bill ---

and in fact before Brettowoods Accords were overturned.

[truedelphi]

46. Newsweek's headline this week is

Now we are all socialists

What concerns me is not whether we are capitalists or socialists but whether or nt we are idiots!

And the unreguolated capitalism that has brought about the entire state of events does end up becoming criminal.

But many banks exist only because the "clean partner" of the drug cartel has purchased the bank.
That way the drug cartel has a vehicle by which to launder their money.

Twice Clinton's people left behind investigations into bank ownership etc, because our agents in Mexico would have been snuffed out had the investigations continued.

[defendandprotect]

52. Interesting comments . . .

We should be so lucky as to have socialism pushed upon us!

Haven't heard much about national health care/single payer from Obama.

But evidently he thinks that even with a bankrupted Treasury and

capitalism begging for bailouts and handouts that the military budget

is still a good idea!!

I was shocked the other day to find that my Senator Lautenberg/NJ voted

to overturn Glass-Steagall -- !!!

And agree re banks and drug war -- filthy as can be.

I think Citibank was laundering something like $500 Billion every year in

drug money. The black caucus/Maxine Waters gets a bit of info thru every now

and then! And, of course, the drug trade can't go on without involvement and

corruption of elected officials and police enforcement -- everywhere.

Yes . . . right after the JFK assassination, we were hearing that people were

visiting banks and making demanding offers. Everything started to change then.

If there's a way to overturn this corruption I hope we find it soon.

[seemslikeadream]

7. All the kings horses and all the kings men can’t put humpty dumpty back together again.

[defendandprotect]

25. Why would we want to? Capitalism is over -- MoveOn to economic democracy . . .

democratic socialism --

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime ---

Where are the penalties for banks, etal and legislators who set these

criminals free to bankrupt America?

[readmoreoften]

45. I'm with ya.

:thumbsup:

[MilesColtrane]

9. K&R

A couple of more days like today (both their stocks down about 14% ) and they will cease to exist.

They've been dead for a while now...just not buried.

[ananda]

10. What about ChaMu?

nt

[cascadiance]

14. Or Citiwide of America Lynch (aka C.O.A.L.! -are they "Clean"?)

Damn, does anyone wonder if times were normal if the anti-trust folks would have allowed this much consolidation. Part of me wonders how much of a motivation allowing this crisis to happen was motivated to escape scrutiny of such a consolidation...

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. It's now gotten to the point where all sorts of bullshit fake stuff

written by conspiracy nuts is making the rounds. There is no basis for this.

[seemslikeadream]

12. It does not seem to be CitiBank's week

I don't have sub to NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/nyregion/20scam.html&OQ=_rQ3D1&OP=6beb2b4fQ2FQ27Q5Cn0Q27b3(zQ7B33Q2F9Q279PPQ5BQ27P9Q279PQ27csQ7Bn_g3cQ279Pz(Q5EVIaQ2FVf
4 Indicted in $10 Million Subprime Mortgage Fraud
By BENJAMIN WEISER
Published: February 20, 2009
The defendants recruited ex-convicts and residents of public housing to pose as home buyers, prosecutors said.


Citibank replaces credit cards
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Money/Story/STIStory_340765.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/20/world-news-brief

Bank targeted by bomb as terror attacks grow
A spate of terrorism has followed social unrest in Greece over the recession. A car bomb left outside Citibank's headquarters in Athens on Wednesday had the potential to kill hundreds of people, but was defused after masked men were spotted. On Tuesday, gunmen fired on a TV station, and bullet casings from the attack matched those used in an attack on a police station two weeks earlier by an unknown group, the Revolutionary Faction. Declaring "we don't do politics, we do guerrilla warfare", the gang vowed to kill police and "prominent Greeks" including media stars and politicians.

[cascadiance]

13. My sister works at BofA... Hoping she survives this if true...

She's already noted that many there are worrying about needing to take a salary cut.

[seemslikeadream]

16. Citi Execs Takes Care Of Their Own

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/blog/2009/02/citi-execs-takes-care-of-their-own.html


Citi Execs Takes Care Of Their Own
by Dollars and Sense

Citigroup, Inc (parent of Citibank) lost $18.7 billion last year, laid off 39,000 employees, and took $52 billion in government bailout money, but that hasn't stopped them from honoring their commitments to their former directors.

Bloomberg reports that Roberto Hernandez Ramirez (incidentally, the 7th richest Mexican) will continue to be reimbursed for private air travel, an executive secretary, a private office, and personal security (which all told cost about $2.6 million in 2007) after he steps down as a company director.

Hernandez joins other former Citi CEOs Sanford "Sandy" Weill, John Reed, and Charles "Chuck" Prince who also continue to receive similar perks.

[snot]

21. So, which banks are solid-er, and FDIC insured?

[lurky]

22. Friend of mine works at a large bank in NY.

I won't say which one. She was basically telling me that the bad news is not over. There are a ton of "toxic" assets that have not been revalued yet because of accounting loopholes the banks are using to keep the losses off their books. Eventually, they will have to revalue them, at which time the banks will probably become officially insolvent. Pretty scary.

[ipfilter]

26. "Officially Insolvent" is the key there. nt

[defendandprotect]

27. Which is why these banks have to be declared insolvent -- and nationalized . . .

No more bail-outs --

NATIONALIZE and RE-REGULATE ---

but afterwards, no more auctioning off banks to private interests again!!

[Liberal In Texas]

28. These big banks need to be broken up and strict regulation imposed.

Perhaps "nationalization" is the only way.

I'd like to see "Trust Busting" that happened in the '30s return. And not only banks, media conglomerates and other multi-nationals as well.

[no limit]

29. I've got all my money in BOFA, and I'm not about to dump it because someone on the internet told me

to. This is a bit silly.

[AlCzervik]

30. that's who i bank with, i'm not worried, i don't love BOFA but so far i've had no problems

with them.

[DeschutesRiver]

31. If you are under the FDIC insurance limits, then there shouldn't be any problem sticking with BOA

nationalization or not. If the FDIC insurance were to ever fail, then nothing is safe at all. I absolutely know there will be more failed banks (totally understand that many banks are insolvent) and from all these test balloons they are flying, that there may well be some type of nationalization. Looks like they are flying the idea that it will be BOA and C. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this rumor pan out.

I don't believe that the FDIC would ever be allowed to fail on paying out account insurance, simply because it would be the end of the banking system. First time that happens, ie insured accounts are not paid out when the bank fails, would be the last time for most people.

I have an account and a CD there. Since a nationalization/failure before my CD matures would result in a loss of interest, when this sucker matures at the end of the month, I am not re-investing in a BOA CD (moving it directly to t-bills).

[no limit]

33. But lets assume BofA fails, Would I still have instant access to my money or would there be a delay?

I'm trying to figure out if I should take out a couple hundred bucks just in case this rumor turns out to be true.

[DeschutesRiver]

34. I honestly have no idea anymore

If you asked me last year, I'd say the system was setup to typically close 'em on a Friday, and reopen on Monday, with virtually no delay in accessing the insured accounts. Was a very efficient system of closing out banks without inconveniencing anyone.

However during the Indymac takeover, I saw hundreds of people in line - big delay right there. Then some other banks for a short period, refused to honor checks from Indymac - not all by any means, but sucked if that was you. So that was a delay for some folks. I considered that my warning that the system might not always accomplish takeovers seamlessly. I am seeing a lot of things happening that I never thought I'd see, so now I am watching closely to see if I need to change my expectations accordingly.

My concern is that if our .gov had to suddenly rearrange a few of the big banks all at once, that it would be perfectly understandable if they had a small banking holiday in which to achieve that. Or not unusual for a big enough failure to cause a delay - but again, sucks if you can't wait for it to even quickly be sorted out.

I have some cash on hand, so that if there is a delay, I can be understanding about it rather than panicked because I need it and can't get to it. This year, that seems prudent to do. It is not like I am losing anything (interest, etc) by having a small amount of daily expense cash on hand.

[MilesColtrane]

35. According to the last financial report available for the FDIC...

...it had about $53 billion on hand to cover the deposits of defaulting banks at the end of 2007.

Bank of America alone has over $800 billion in deposits.

The FDIC couldn't begin to cover the losses if either Citibank or Bank of America went under, much less if they both failed.

This is why the government won't allow that to happen. They'll be nationalized and directly capitalized by the Treasury.

[DeschutesRiver]

41. FSLIC couldn't either during the S&L deal

And the .gov got around that without resorting to nationalizaion. Nationalization isn't the only way to deal with an underfunded insurance program. It will be interesting to see what a "nationalized" bank is exactly; I don't think .gov has finalized the terms and conditions yet?

The FDIC claims to be backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. Government, but I don't know what authority gives that status. Other than the obvious, ie without FFC in a situation that goes beyond FDIC resources, people will withdraw from the banking system and it will collapse into a smoking heap. And a certain percentage will never go back to it, a fact of which the .gov is quite aware and which is a pretty powerful incentive.

End of the day, regardless of whether .gov chooses to call its rescue a FFC backing of the FDIC insurance system, or a nationalization of every failed bank beyond FDIC ostensible limits, it is the same end result - taxpayer funded. And done in aid of making people continue to use and believe in the present banking system.

I don't think how a bank is deemed failed, ie whether taken over or sold or nationalized, will make a difference in analyzing the odds of a delay in access. Acknowledging the possibility of a delay in access is a reasonable assumption given what has gone on recently.

[MilesColtrane]

42. I believe that insuring S&L deposits was eventually turned over to the FDIC.

The government owned Resolution Trust Company was able to partner with the private sector in selling off the assets of failed thrifts.

I don't see anyone being interested in taking on the toxic paper owned by BAC and C right now.

[DeschutesRiver]

50. That is what I recall re fslic/fdic

I guess there are two issues here - whether depositors will always continue to be made whole up to limits (yes), and how to go about disposing of these bad bank assets in order to return some measure of health to the banking system.

I am still unclear as to why .gov isn't just setting up a RTC style solution and getting on with it, before all these toxic bank assets go to zero. I don't think all the assts are equally toxic at this point, but who knows what the percentages are; despite that, I am leaning towards bringing them out into the open, marking them to market and letting the chips fall where they eventually must. Which will be pretty horrific, I think, with regard to potential unintended consequences that may flow from this. But insolvent banks and toxic assets are what they are, and hiding the sausage isn't resolving the issue whatsoever.

I don't know what nationalization entails, other than injecting endless $$ into the banks, and trying to hold them open while under .gov control until the toxic assets have been somehow dealt with? Nationalization sounded to me like .gov trying to work in partnership with the existing bank management, and I just don't see that working, if that is what they mean by it.

As I recall, there were no liquidity injections with the RTC solution, nor did the .gov try to keep the failed S&Ls open. They just set up the RTC, shut those puppies down, and got some outside help in dispersing the illiquid S&L assets. Not perfect, but there is no perfect solution as far as I can see. I lived through the RTC time, I even still have a 30 year bond from the RTC, but during that time? It went by virtually unnoticed by me; this time feels much different. Bigger; meaner; core disruptive potentially.

Do you personally think that this time, the wheels are going to come completely off our financial system? Just curious.

[joeunderdog]

51. Ding, ding, ding. Why isn't this a major story?

If another insurance company portrayed that it could cover this much in excess of its assets, we'd call it fraud. And they just more than doubled the amount they would supposedly cover. WTF?

[MilesColtrane]

32. Citigroup stock down 21.5% so far today. Trading at $1.97 a share.

Bank of America down 18.5%. Trading at $3.20 a share.

[Cleita]

36. There was just a caller into Thom Hartmann who said his Citibank

credit card, that had charged between 6% and 7%, was now going to charge 30% for all new purchases.

[MilesColtrane]

37. Citibank now at $1.85...-26.29% for the day.

Bank of America at $3.02...-23.16% so far.

[seemslikeadream]

38. Dodd Says Short-Term Bank Nationalization Might Be Needed as Shares Plunge

Source: Bloomberg

By Alison Vekshin

Feb. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said it may be necessary to nationalize some banks for a short time as Citigroup Inc. and Bank of America Corp. tumbled today on concern the U.S. may take over both banks.

“I don’t welcome that at all, but I could see how it’s possible it may happen,” Dodd said in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt” to be broadcast later today. “I’m concerned that we may end up having to do that, at least for a short time.”

New York-based Citigroup and Charlotte, North Carolina-based Bank of America, which have received $90 billion in U.S. aid in the past four months, fell as much as 19 percent today.

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEvPzrV6pF88&refer=home

[LeftHander]

39. I am trying to get a mortgage finalized with Countrywide right now...

I have an accepted offer on a small home (very modest @ 70k nice bungalow) I have >20% down and would really like to wrap this up quick. This move will cut my monthly housing cost in half. (renting now post divorce)

I hope this won't foobar this....

[MilesColtrane]

40. Dropping like anvils.

Citigroup at $1.67...down 33.47%
Bank of America at $2.79...down 29.77%

[MilesColtrane]

44. Someone's sprinkling magic fairy dust.

Citigroup: $1.89 ...-24.7%
BAC: $3.19...-18.83%

[MilesColtrane]

47. "Nevermind"

C: $1.88 -25.1%
BAC: $3.28 -16.54

[no limit]

49. Looks like the stocks bounced back up to yesterday levels (almost)

[Sultana]

48. I guess Arab and taxpayers' money could keep Citi afloat