Why We Immunize

[stopbush]

Why We Immunize
Posted by Jim Macdonald at 01:09 AM * 247 comments

There’s a manual that every Navy gunnery officer was required to read or re-read every year: OP 1014; Ordnance Safety Precautions: Their Origin and Necessity. It’s a collection of stories about, and photographs of, spectacular accidents involving big guns and ammunition. Gun turrets that have fired on other gun turrets on the same ship. Holes in the coral where ammunition ships were formerly anchored. That sort of thing. It’s simultaneously grim and fascinating.

Nowadays there’s some kind of movement afoot for claiming that immunization against common childhood diseases is unnecessary. That they cause disease. That they’re harmful. It is true that rare adverse reactions to immunizations occur. It is also true that adverse reactions to the diseases themselves are not at all rare if you don’t immunize. So let’s call this post Immunizations: Their Origin and Necessity.

Still, we have people fighting against immunizations. Observe:

Product:
Kids Vaccinations in general
…
Advantages: none

Disadvantages: enormous

I suppose that depends on whether you feel “Didn’t have to buy a teeny-tiny headstone” is an advantage.

Article here: http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010978.html

[XemaSab]

1. I saw a graveyard from the early 1800's in South Carolina

A man, a woman, and 7 kids under the age of 15. :(

[Mz Pip]

3. My mom's little sister

died from diphtheria. That's one of the diseases we vaccinate against. My grandmother lost 3 of her kids before they reached the age of 1.

Why anyone would want to return to those times is beyond me.

If there is a vaccination for something, I get it. I've been vaccinated for every damn disease there is a vaccination for. As soon at the next batch of shingles vaccine comes in I'll get it.

I'm old enough to remember polio. I remember how sick I got from measles and am damn glad my kids didn't have to go through that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. My sister is legally blind from the measles

I remember it like it was yesterday. One of the scariest times in my childhood.

[depakid]

5. You can find the same sorts of things in the Northwest

Cross reference official and church records with the headstones and the newspapers from the times.

[Warpy]

9. You see those in New England

One man, three to five women in succession, every woman accompanied by the tiny headstones of children who died from those usual childhood diseases until the last pregnancy finally killed her.

I lost a playmate to measles. I bloody nearly died, too. The vaccines weren't available in the early 1950s.

The reason life expectancy was so low until the last century is because so many of us died in childhood from diseases we now have the ability to prevent with a simple inoculation.

People who rail against vaccines simply don't have a clue what they're talking about.

[tabatha]

2. I don't think anyone is against immunization.

Certainly, not me.

I am not against air and water, but I sure am against putting mercury in them.

[alarimer]

4. There are so many people who are against it that measles is making a comeback.

Last year there were hundreds of cases in the US and the UK. All cause by idiot anti-vaccine types refusing to vaccinate their kids. Measles can be fatal; it is certainly hard on a kid, much harder than the vaccine is.

[Hekate]

8. Whooping cough (pertussis) is making a comeback too. Grim diseases.

edited to change diphtheria to pertussis -- sorry for the brain fart

[earth mom]

13. I was born with measles almost 50 years ago and I'm still here.

:eyes:

Now, that said:

Take the gawd damn mercury out of the vaccines once and for all and spread the vaccination schedule out as well as tailor it to each child and then you will see parents vaccinating their kids.

But until the FUBAR vaccinations and the vaccination schedule is fixed, I don't blame people for being worried and wary of harming their kids.

At this point, parents can't trust the pharma giants, the CDC or the NIH.

They've already harmed too many kids as it is. :grr:

[beam me up scottie]

20. Yeah, look at you. You don't even know that there is no mercury in those vaccines.

:eyes:

Here's a clue for people who keep parroting anti-science talking points:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5101960&mesg_id=5102113

[earth mom]

24. You and your buddies are the ones fearmongering about how measles KILL KILL KILL TERRA TERRA TERRA!

So when I present you with living proof-myself-that measles don't always kill, you change the subject.

Also, pharma giants are changing their story AFTER THE FACT & AFTER THEY POISONED THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN about the mercury based preservative in the MMR-just par for the course from those lying cheating greedy bastards! :puke:

[beam me up scottie]

25. The fundamentalist beliefs exhibited in your posts are so extreme they are a tribute to ignorance

I have yet to see you provide any evidence for your accusations, but I'll give it one more try,

You and your buddies are the ones fearmongering about how measles KILL KILL KILL TERRA TERRA TERRA!

So when I present you with living proof-myself-that measles don't always kill, you change the subject.

Please point out where I and/or my "buddies" claimed that measles always kills its victims.


And fyi, I'll continue to cite your posts as an example of the damage paranoid conspiracy theories wreak upon the uninformed unless and until you can communicate without the hyperbole.

Thank you.

[earth mom]

27. I'm agnostic-so there goes another one of your "theories".

:eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

28. whoosh

[Threedifferentones]

34. I actually am a fan of conspiracy theories but one thing I usually look for is MOTIVE.

Why on Earth would companies put mercury into vaccines? They would not make more money because of it, actually once it was discovered they could stand to lose alot.

Tell me about how pharma companies suppress cures so they can continue making gobs off relieving and "prolonging" medicines, and I may listen all day. But poison in vaccines? Eh...

[Hekate]

53. Shockingly enough, they *were* using trace amounts in a preservative called thimerosol...

The preservative was used not for shots stored in single doses, but for containers used for many doses where many single use needles would end up being poked through the cover of the container.

I learned of this a number of years ago when I tuned into CSPAN and caught a Republican congressman (somebody Burton, I think) holding a hearing on the subject. To my surprise he was grilling a couple of representatives of the FDA or CDC over a slow fire. Turns out his grandson is autistic, and he really wasn't in the mood to hear a bunch patronizing platitudes; he wanted to get to the bottom of the rumor about the link between thimerosol/mercury and autism. :wow:

It's been removed by now, and iirc California led the way in making sure it wasn't put into any more pediatric vaccines. Still, the number of autism cases continues to burgeon, and sadly that means there is no single answer.

I guess the answer to one of your questions is that the drug manufacturers wanted to make sure the drugs didn't go bad, and they thought that the trace amounts of thimerosol in each shot would cause no harm. I'm not so sure, as each infant receives many more vaccinations than we used to 50 years ago, and imo it adds to the environmental overload of toxicity that each growing nervous system is subjected to from conception onward. But as I say, there appears to be no single answer--genetics, environment, all of the above?

Hekate

[Hawkowl]

52. Agnostic is not a synonym for stupid

You obviously don't study history, evolution of disease or science. You cite no studies, no evidence, no anything.

People die from disease. Period. Vaccines are the only thing that is truly effective against viruses. Are you also rabidly anti anti-biotic?

The truly scary thing is that if there are enough people how have the same ignorant and proud attitude, you will BREED A MUTANT SUPER-VIRUS. You will sow the seeds of the next apocalypse. People like you are perhaps civilizations greatest threat.

Anthropologists now believe that the Americas before Columbus had the same population as Europe, roughly 100 million people. 100 years after Columbus and the Conquistadors-- 3 million. A 97% die off of humanity from such benign diseases as MEASLES, CHICKENPOX, POLIO etc. And you don't think it can happen again.

[stopbush]

39. 197,000 people DIED LAST YEAR from measles.

Want to compare that number to those killed by terrorists, be my guest.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. Please show me where someone here said the measles were 100% fatal.

[hedgehog]

21. One thing people tend to forget is that it wasn't just a case of having measles.

It was chicken pox, followed by measles, followed by mumps, followed by rubella, followed by Fifth disease. In the old days, add on diphtheria and/or pertussis. Toss in some strep throat going to scarlet fever for some variety. Try running that gauntlet and then come back and tell me that today's kids need to be exposed to childhood illnesses to train their immune systems!

[Hekate]

50. That was pretty much my baby sister's first year of life. Our brother & I brought stuff home...

... from elementary school and the poor thing caught it all from us. We all had the DPT vaccinations so at least we couldn't catch whooping cough or diphtheria, but our little sister's health was severely compromised for many years afterward.

Our Mom had personal experience with whooping cough: her own baby brother almost died from it.

When the polio vaccine went public our parents took us all to the elementary school for the shots. Half the town must have been there; the other half was probably at a clinic at another school. Dangers from polio vaccine? Ha! Polio itself was a killer and a crippler and every parent knew it.

One summer in high school I was a Candy Striper at the hospital and took the jitney into the city with miscellaneous others. One was a girl about my age, blind, wearing heavy braces on her legs--turned out to be the sister of someone I knew in school. As we chatted she volunteered the information that her condition was from complications of having mumps: mumps encephalitis.

In college I met a young man from the Afghanistan who was indelibly and terribly scarred by smallpox.

Does my family believe in vaccinations? Is the Pope German?

Hekate

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. They HAVE taken mercury out of kids' vaccines

Several years ago.

[marksmithfield]

42. Spreading that type of hogwash

is just great. Seems to me they had to imprison Typhoid Mary, Your beliefs are a heath hazard, and if enough fools don't immunize we could see massive outbreaks of easily preventable diseases. Do you mistrust everything you don't understand?

[stopbush]

7. Which vaccines currently administered in the USA contain mercury?

I don't know, I'm asking.

[Hekate]

10. I believe my state of California banned it; autism cases have continued to rise.

I endorse vaccinations for kids, but there are two things I would certainly change. One is the presence of mercury at any level--that's just stupid. The other is cramming so many vaccines into small bodies so fast. That seems like an unnecessary stress.

I think that the terrible rise in autism will someday be found to be caused by the hundreds of toxic chemicals flooding our environment. When babies' cord blood is tested in the lab, the blood the baby has received from its mother while safe in her womb turns out to contain a stew of toxins, no matter how healthy a lifestyle she has maintained. Our culture is killing our kids --they're the canaries in the coal mine, first to fall.

Hekate

[eridani]

16. 90% genetic

That isn't to say that environmental factors are not triggers, though.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/66132.php

Autism is an impairment which has a very high hereditary contribution, over 90%. Several linkage and association studies have been performed without consistent replication of data.

[Hekate]

35. The vulnerability may be genetic, but I still suspect the synergistic effects of all those toxins...

... set it off.

I'd really be glad to see vaccinations off the hook -- I'm a great defender of the practice, being old enough to remember the last polio epidemic and also having read any number of memoirs and novels of previous centuries when infant and childhood death was so common. Dickens and Twain both included wrenching scenes of dying children in their works, and I am sure they had first-hand knowledge.

Hekate

[IGotAName]

45. Dead on.

It, almost entirely, is genetic.

Oddly enough, though, autism is dealt with most successfully through environmental means (behavior mod, etc.).

[eridani]

48. Just like phenylketonuria (PKU)

Genetic disease which is a result of an inability to metabolize phenylalanine. Treatment is a low phenylalanine diet until brain development is complete.

[Warpy]

11. None since 2001 except the injectable flu vaccine.

There is a nasal flu vaccine for parents who are worried about mercury.

The MMR, the main target of the antivax crowd, never had mercury in it in the US.

Mercury preservative in vaccine was never tied to any neurological illness and the incidence of those illnesses has not declined since it was removed.

The antivax crowd simply doesn't know what they think they know.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. Thimerosal was removed from all routine childhood vaccines in 2001.

[maseman]

22. My step-son's grandmother is 100%

against immunizations. She has been preaching to my wife for years about how bad immunizing our kids are for them. Funny thing i that her kids were all immunized and came out normal but now she's on this kick.

Of course she also listens to Rush, watched Fox Noise and think Dobson is great.

[rockymountaindem]

6. Very good article

One of my good friends has never been vaccinated due to religious reasons, even though she's not a Christian Scientist. She just had a baby and I doubt that child will be vaccinated either.

[beam me up scottie]

12. k&r for pointing out the importance of vaccinations.

And the dedications illustrate the cold hard reality of the "good old days" :

IN MEMORY OF MARY S. DAUGHTER OF CAPT. SAMUEL AND BETSEY TILLOTSON SHE DIED DEC 11TH 1819 AGED 9 MOS.

Hepatitis B:

DANIEL H. TILLOTSON SON OF SAMUEL & BETSEY TILLOTSON DIED AUGUST 9, 1813 AGED 1 YEAR 8 MONTHS

Polio:

IN MEMORY OF CARLOS SON OF CAPT. SAMUEL AND BETSEY TILLOTSON WHO DIED NOV THE 4, 1818 AGED 5 YRS

Diphtheria:

HULDAH DAUGHTER OF IRENE AND EBENEZER KNAPP BORN JUNE 18, 1811 DIED FEB 21, 1813

Pertussis:

CAROLINE DAUGHTER OF IRENE AND EBENEZER KNAPP BORN OCT 27, 1807 DIED JAN 27, 1808

Tetanus:

“L. B.” IN MEMORY OF LYMAN SON OF MR. JACOB AND MRS. ABIGAIL BLACK WHO DIED SEPT 10TH 1801 AGED 6 YRS 10 MONTHS 23 DA

Haemophilus influenzae type B:

JOHN N. SON OF JOHN AND MARY HUBBARD DIED MARCH 21, 1836 AGED 1 YR (8 MO 1 DA)

Measles:

BETSEY HUBBARD DIED JULY 17, 1799 AGED 9 MO 5 DS
EBER DIED OCT 27, 1802 AGED 7 MO 16 DS
LUCINDA DIED AUG 29, 1810 AGED 1 YR 2 MO 20 DS
HARRIET DIED JAN 22, 1820 AGED 6 YR 4 MO 6 DS
PETER B. DIED MAR 10, 1820 AGED 9 MO 8 DS
CHILDREN OF PETER & POLLY HUBBARD

Mumps:

VIANA DAUGHTER OF ASA & MARGARET ANDREWS DIED SEPT 2, 1823 AGED 2 YEARS

Rubella:

HIRAM BORN JAN 14, 1827 DIED FEB 14, 1827
CHESTER G. BORN MAY 5, 1832 DIED FEB 19, 1833
EMELINE BORN MARCH 24, 1825 DIED FEB 21, 1833
SUSAN BORN APRIL 14, 1836 DIED DEC 10, 1836
CHILDREN OF HIRAM & EMILY TAYLOR

Chicken Pox:

HERE LIE TWO SONS OF ELIJAH & MABEL ANDREWS.
ELISHA DIED OCT 21, 1802 AGED 1 YR & 5 MONTHS
RICHARD DIED OCT 25, 1797 AGED 2 YRS & 1 MONTH

[earth mom]

14. WTF?! Your "data" is almost 200 flipping years old!

:rofl:

Get back to us when you have some current data. :eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

19. No shit, Sherlock. Leave it to a pro-infectious diseaser to miss the point.

Before vaccinations it was normal to lose half your kids to these diseases.

Get back to me when you have data to prove that vaccinations are more harmful than the diseases they prevent.

[earth mom]

23. No current data huh? Just what I thought.

:eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

26. Don't you ever wonder what that loud wooshing sound just over your head is?

Never mind, some fundamentalists are incapable of critical thought.

Proceed.

[BlooInBloo]

43. The worst fail is always by those who are too stupid to see their fail.

Not coincidentally, those are also the FUNNIEST fails.

:rofl:

[tabasco]

47. Unfortunately, no shot will cure a thick skull.

Sorry.

[Hawkowl]

54. Where's the current data on gravity?

Geez. Who'd believe that idiot Newton. You are dangerously stupid.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

57. Seriously quit while you are behind.

The ignorance that you are showing is embarrassing for people who make logical arguments against mandatory vaccinations.

David

[Random_Australian]

61. Ok, this was just funny. I'll give this poster benefit of the doubt though.

I assume they're just really tired or posting under the influence, that is.

You said it - comparisons between life with and without access to modern medicine are silly - I want comparisons between life with and life with access to modern medicine like you!

:rofl:

[olegramps]

63. Why do you insist on not availing yourselve of the correct information.

You are only making yourselve appear to be not only ignorant of the facts, but determined to remain uninformed. Just go to Wikipedia for a comprehensive report on the use of thirmesol in vaccines. It has been concluded that it has had nothing to do with the rise of the incident rate autism. It was removed as a precautionary measure but there has been no conclusive evidence that it was really harmful.

[uberllama42]

32. Current data?

The claim made by BMUS is that many people died from those diseases before vaccination was implemented. If the claim was made about a period over a century ago, no recent data are going to have any bearing on it. You don't seem to understand what you're talking about.

[marksmithfield]

46. I can't believe it

I'm 54, and had mumps, measles, chicken pox, valley fever, and whooping cough. The combo of measles and chicken pox left my central nervous system fucked. Ever taste sounds? How about tinnitus from 6yrs old till right this minute? Glad you got over your little bout with measles. My mom would have had vision in both eyes instead of having her cornea destroyed by measles if she had had a vaccine. So don't think you are so smart with your anti-vaccine crap. Why dont you start a crusade against penicillin, then we could all go back to having natures nice little killers like plague or tb. Do us all a favor and if you have kids, keep them at home.

[Hekate]

58. See my post up thread for more current "data". You could also google for public health info...

... on epidemics around the world (why confine it to the US) in the last three-quarters of the 20th century, especially if the flu pandemic of 1918-1920 is too far back for you. The World Health Organization will also have that data.

Not a laughing matter at all.

Hekate

[moriah]

15. The only person's decision I agreed with about refusing immunizations was ....

... a friend of mine's family.

Their firstborn had all of his shots, had no problems.

Their second, my friend, had a very bad reaction to the 2nd set of shots she was administered -- encephalitis at 6 months old is not fun for parent or child. Their doctor said she should not have any more immunizations, and agreed with their decision when they said they were afraid of the same thing happening to their next two children.

But people who *can* tolerate the shots need to have them, to protect people like my friend who cannot.

[eridani]

17. There is probably a small set of kids genetically prone to bad reactions

If we could find a way to identify them, the system as a whole can tolerate a few free riders.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. Good point.

[Hekate]

55. Bingo. Herd immunity will protect those few. But if a significant portion of the "herd" isn't immune

... then childhood illnesses become endemic again in the non-vaccinated portion of the population, putting the immune-compromised at deadly risk.

Hekate

[LaurenG]

18. I am a firm proponent of vaccination - Smallpox is a case in point

Smallpox Introduction

Smallpox (also called variola) is the only disease that has been completely wiped out throughout the world. Smallpox is also potentially one of the most devastating biological weapons ever conceived.

Due to the success of an intense worldwide public health initiative, not one documented naturally occurring case of this highly infectious, deadly disease has occurred since October 26, 1977. (An unvaccinated hospital cook in Somalia was the last person to naturally contract smallpox.) The World Health Organization (WHO) officially declared smallpox eradicated in 1980.

At that time, all remaining collected supplies of the smallpox virus were supposed to be destroyed or sequestered in two laboratories, one in the United States and one in Russia. Geopolitical events in the last decade and revelations concerning offensive biological warfare programs by certain foreign governments have raised concern that this virus may have fallen into the hands of other foreign states who might seek to use the virus as a biological weapon.

* History of smallpox: For centuries, smallpox affected political and social agendas. Smallpox epidemics plagued Europe and Asia until 1796, when Edward Jenner tested his theory of disease protection. He did this by inoculating a young boy with material obtained from a milkmaid who was infected with the milder cowpox virus. The success of that experiment led to the development of a vaccine (from vacca, the Latin word for cow). Afterward, the incidence of smallpox infection in Europe steadily declined.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/smallpox/article_em.htm

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RadiationTherapy]

33. "teeny-tiny headstone" - what an asshole line.

[Hekate]

36. A bit too close to the truth perhaps? nt

[RadiationTherapy]

64. No. Insensitive, arrogant assholery, but not truth.

There are a lot of reasons that a child may die, but I will be in the face of any asshole who thinks they are "teaching" something by being so insensitive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Michelle Malkin doesn't vaccinate her kids

She wrote a column on it several years ago. I emailed her telling her I was old enough to remember polio and I wouldn't wish that on any child. She emailed me back saying she had the right to make private medical decisions for her children. So I replied asking her why she wrote a column on this if she thought it was such a private decision. She spammed me from her email.

And seriously, I think Michelle Malkin is such a hateful brainless twit that if she said she ate Cheerios every day, I would never again eat Cheerios.

[sufrommich]

41. Why so much superstition in the 21st century? It boggles

the mind.

[BlooInBloo]

44. Because we're a nation of idiots. And my sig.

[tomp]

49. it is arrogant and incorrect to equate anti-vaccination and superstition.

you show ignorance or bias or both.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

59. I don't know what you would call some of the above comments.

Seems like superstition and ignorance to me.

David

[Hekate]

60. It's lack of direct experience. There's no excuse for not teaching public health history in school

7th grade would be a good place to start, and every year through 12th grade. Kids are always interested in the gruesome, so it shouldn't be a boring subject by any means.

My guess is that the whole subject is glossed over by the triumphs of individual scientists, when kids (future adults) really need to know why this subject is important to them individually in the here and now, that it's not all ancient history about the Black Death in Europe.

Mostly I chalk it up to the fact that the young mothers of today were themselves vaccinated for polio, DPT, and MMR and have absolutely no direct experience with the diseases they so blithely leave their children open to. The mean doctor is going to give their wee baby an owie that will cause a little fever for a few days and maybe a sore lump at the site of the injection. Tetanus shots in particular can leave your arm sore for a week. They don't see the need to put their baby through that. At that point I have no patience for continued willful ignorance.

Hekate

[BamaGirl]

51. I can't imagine not doing it

I didn't have any 'childhood illnesses' as a child. I never even had chicken pox and I'm 37. But about 3 years ago I got whooping cough. It was a nightmare. I can't imagine my asthmatic daughter having to deal with it. She'll be getting a booster this year! And the idea of getting chicken pox at my age? Please, just give me a shot lol!

[Dastard Stepchild]

62. That link does not contain the full CDC vaccination schedule, fyi.

This is it: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/2009/09_0-6yrs_schedule_pr.pdf

I'm sold on vaccination overall, but some are not indicated based on family situation. As my family doctor and I discussed, my son was a good candidate for opting out of the rotavirus vaccine as he does not attend daycare. We also declined HBV until school age and will not inoculate with the varicella vaccine. We also stagger our vaccinations differently than the schedule to assess reactions per injection.