Just Because You Vote Democratic Doesn't Make You A Small l Liberal

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I had this conversation with my friend that blew me away. I am a small publisher that is struggling. My friend works for another publisher. We were talking about a new sales manager hired at his company who used to work for a gay oriented magazine. I said I would publish a gay magazine if I could make a living at it. My friend said he wouldn't. I asked why but I knew what was coming . He said he didn't want people to think he was gay; that it would be "guilt by association".I said "That's messed up. It's not like doimg something wrong." He then said he wouldn't want people to think he is gay. And then said that all gay men "fuck each other in the ass"* I said that's just silly. Having worked around gay men I know that's a canard. And even a cursory knowledge of the porn industry demonstates that straight people , especially mem seem to like it too...


He also refers to grown women as girls...


*sorry for the graphic distribution but it's key to my story.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Yeah, sad. Especially when Prop 8 really got straights into the fight. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. He Voted Against The Anti Gay Marriage Amendment (Prop 2) In Florida

Who cares if someone thinks you're gay, straight, or bisexual, or asexual?

[Captain Hilts]

18. There are worse things to be called: Dallas Cowboys fan, ugly, bad mannered, selfish, bad driver,etc

[Runcible Spoon]

3. What a douche.

It is so sad when people reduce identity down to sexual acts. You're 100% right that straight people enjoy teh butt secks too, and it's not like every magazine with gay themes is porn. Most of the mainstream ones I've perused are like gay themed Maxims or Cosmopolitans, often with better writing! Just generally culture, arts, gossip, politics, product reviews, advice, and yeah some discussions of sex.

Methinks you need to trade said friend in for better model.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I Don't Think He Made The Reference Because Of The Magazine

It's a lifestyle magazine.

Like I said he voted against Prop 2. It's more of a fear of being labeled gay than hating gays but by thinking it's such a bad thing which it isn't he unconsciously being hateful.

[Runcible Spoon]

6. fear and hatred are virtually indistinguishable in bigots.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. He Doesn't Hate Gays. He's Worked With Them And Had Gays Work For Him

He just wouldn't want folks to think he was gay.

[Runcible Spoon]

12. Uhuh. Well that just excuses it all then.

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

19. That's not what they said. nt

[Captain Hilts]

20. Well, knowing it's not contagious is a start, I guess. nt

[Skittles]

5. I'm confused

this piece of shit is your FRIEND? :o

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I've Known Him For Fifteen Years

I used to work for him while I had other obligations. Other employers would not have allowed me the arrangement I had.

Maybe I should have been more clear. It's not so much he consciously hates gays. He voted agasinst Prop 2. He's afraid someone might think he was gay which to me is a form of stupidity.

[Runcible Spoon]

9. "a form of stupidity" No, it's a form of homophobia.

And unless you were standing there in the booth with him you'll never know whether he voted against it or whether he told you that because it came up in conversation and he didn't want to come across as a bigot to you. I don't understand what you're really expecting to get from this thread. You write it as a pretty blatant smackdown of his bullshit, but then you spend the subthread defending him. :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Why Would He Lie?

And, of course I called bullshit on his argument. I said "that's messed up." I guess I am trying to calibrate the condemnation.


I hope that makes sense.

[Runcible Spoon]

14. I already indicated why he might lie.

Bigots don't like to be called on their bullshit. "like, 2 of by best friends are black/gay/etc!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Skittles]

16. sorry, to me it's a form of homophobia

the guy is just plain pathetic

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. He's Not Alone

The woman across the street from me voted for Obama. She's a stalwart Democrat.


I went over there and she was watching tv. She was watching a soap opera. I told her I liked "All My Children" while I was in college which was too long ago to remember. She said she doesn't like it because two lesbians were getting married on the show. I chuckled when she said one was Erica Kane's daughter.

[Political Tiger]

10. People who worry that much that others may think they are gay

are usually gay, whether they have yet to come to grips with it or not. I know. Been there. Done that.

[FreeState]

15. I dont think so...

I would caution against taking your own personal experience and applying it to others - especially when you dont know them or what they are thinking. There are many straight people who are homophobic or uncomfortable with gay sex/gay people because thats been what they were taught socially as well as in church - it does not mean they are gay and just need to come to terms with it.

[Political Tiger]

17. More often than not I think it's true

Two infamous examples being Larry Craig and Ted Haggard. Studies have show this to be true as well. In a study done at the University of Georgia Department of Psychology "The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

Of course, this doesn't mean every single homophobic person out there is secretly gay, or in denial about their sexuality, but based not just on my own experience but also by the experience of other gay people I have talked to about this subject, it is at the very least not uncommon.

[FreeState]

21. I have seen those studies before and even sited them

However, when applying the results of this study to some stranger being talked about on DU its stereotyping IMO. There is always evidence of truth in stereotyping but rarely is it true in the majority of cases - even on DU its now against the rules to call someone gay that is not out without evidence. Please also note neither of these studies have been peer reviewed.

I personally do not believe Haggard or Craig are gay - he does not fit the description of the definition of the APA - he does not self identify as gay - and that is part of the criteria - with out self concept one is not gay. See, http://www.apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=31 . I realize others will disagree.

"Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. Individuals may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors."

http://www.apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=31

[Political Tiger]

22. I didn't say this guy is gay. I was talking in broad terms.

That's why I originally said "people" instead of 'him' or 'that guy.'

As for Haggard and Craig, while they might not choose to or be able to "self identify" themselves as gay, I think most people would say that a man who is attracted to other men has "homosexual tendencies," or is at least bisexual.

In other words, I don't know of any heterosexual men who seek out sex with other men, just as I don't know of any homosexual men who seek out sex with women.

Of course, sexuality is not as easy as black and white. I'm sure there are plenty of heterosexual men who might seek out an encounter with another man out of curiosity or for experimentation, but if you have had a life long attraction to other men, which even now Haggard admits he has, that would tend to indicate, like I said before, "homosexual tendencies." The fact that he can't or won't accept that doesn't change the underlying facts.