H.C.R. 50 being circulated in Austin. Texans are ticked off Seceding from US

[lovuian]

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/pdf/HC00050I.pdf

the states are demonstrably treated as agents of the federal government; and

WHEREAS, Many federal laws are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and

WHEREAS, The Tenth Amendment assures that we, the people of the United States of America and each sovereign state in the Union of States, now have, and have always had, rights the federal government may not usurp; and

WHEREAS, Section 4, Article IV, of the Constitution says, "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government," and the Ninth Amendment states that "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people"; and

WHEREAS, The United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that congress may not simply commandeer the legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and

WHEREAS, A number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That the 81st Legislature of the State of Texas hereby claim sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States; and, be it further

RESOLVED, That this serve as notice and demand to the federal government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers; and, be it further

RESOLVED, That all compulsory federal legislation that directs states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties or sanctions or that requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding be prohibited or repealed; and, be it further

RESOLVED, That the Texas secretary of state forward official copies of this resolution to the president of the United States, to the speaker of the house of representatives and the president of the senate of the United States Congress, and to all the members of the Texas delegation to the congress with the request that this resolution be officially entered in the Congressional Record as a memorial to the Congress of the United States of America."


Interesting

[glinda]

1. Adios!

[liberaltrucker]

2. Buh bye

Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

:toast:

Edit: With due respect to Texas DUers, this would be very good.
Think about it. Pukes lose 2 Senators and (Deity) knows how many
Reps. If this comes to pass, all I have to say is "Goodbye, Texas, and
good riddance". I'd say the same for my home State, Alabama.

[roguevalley]

55. So we go down and whip their ass again. (I had southern and union ancestors)

(In fact, I had one on each side of the battle of cow pens.) They never learn.

[Jawja]

57. No.

I'm from Georgia and I say let 'em go this time. If Georgia were to secede again, I wouldn't go with her. I'd move.

[roguevalley]

67. You can live in my house, honey. :-D

[tularetom]

3. So all that patriotic flag waving bullshit was just...bullshit?

[katusha]

4. hmmm....civil war II?

except this time the union has nukes and the confederates don't. how's that gonna work out?

[alfredo]

7. Or insult them by letting them.

[vaberella]

12. That's the move I'm supporting. n/t

[JVS]

28. Or just bomb them back to the stone age.

You know what they say. Shoot first, ask questions later.

[alfredo]

62. I'm sure a firecracker would do the job in some regions. Of course Austin

must be saved. You got to love a town that says of itself "Keep Austin Weird." Every state needs a town that allows, or encourages the creative. Does Idaho have such a town? What about Alabama?

[JVS]

63. I'd consider Austin collateral damage.

[alfredo]

64. No, we've already lost New Orleans. We need to preserve those places

where iconoclasts and and eccentrics can live. Would Towns Van Zandt have thrived in Lake Dreamland Ky? What about Charles Bukowski? Could he have found inspiration in Wray Colorado? Not saying that small town America stifles free thought, it just limits the opportunities to express those thoughts.

[MrsBrady]

5. This will go nowhere

anyone can introduce a bill.

[Pat Curl]

68. This will go nowhere

Oddly enough, Texas will be the 22nd state in the union to pass this bill that claims sovereignty. Hummmmmm....

[NightWatcher]

6. so we've got to redo that whole "wall along the border" huh?

[gratuitous]

8. Ah, back to the unfunded mandates, are we?

My goodness, it IS just like the early 90s all over again, innit? As I recall, Texans weren't in quite such a lather when the unfunded mandate was invasions of other countries for fun and profit.

Well, that whole seceding from the union thing worked out so well last time. Give it another go!

[Blue_In_AK]

9. Hey, I thought only Alaska

had an independence party. :P

[napi21]

10. What exactly are they pissed about this time? All I read was that they

don't want the Feds to tell then what to do. What triggered THIS outrage?

[Marr]

39. The rest of the country isn't letting them run everything, I think.

I believe they consider that being uncooperative or something.

Actually, I suspect it's more to do with our having a black president now.

[Pat Curl]

69. Could be we're okay...

We don't seem to be having the same problems the democratic nation has. Balanced budget, production, ya da ya da. Perhaps Texas doesn't want to participate in the spendulas debt? black or red.

[marmar]

72. Enjoying your night out at DU? Well let me say hi before pizza gets served.....

Hi and bye.

[Sydnie]

76. Perhaps we should just give Texas back to the Mexican government

and see how they do with that mess.


Do you like pepperoni on your pizza?

[NMMNG]

77. Go right ahead

Nobody in their right mind would miss ya.

And what do you want your pizza, BTW?

[Marr]

79. C'mon- you can be honest.

It's the black president thing, isn't it?

[Aristus]

83. So it's okay to spend billions building roads and bridges and schools and hospitals in Iraq

but not okay to spend billions doing the same in the United States, huh?

Why do you hate America?

And stop with the "spendulus" bullshit, will you? It makes you sound like even more of an idiot... :eyes:

[vaberella]

11. Oh their leaving? Can the bailout money now move to states in need like CA?!

I really don't care if Texas wants to go. They won't last long when the Mexicans see it as a good time to move in and take their land back (I wouldn't blame them if they do!!). ^_^

[Lost in CT]

13. Texas is about two minutes from becoming Mexico.

And lets face it Mexico is about one minute from becoming Iraq.


If I was the Texans I would play nice.

[blonndee]

17. "Mexico is about one minute from becoming Iraq"

Well said. It is getting really, seriously scary in Mexico. I was just talking with our school police officer about this yesterday.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Finally Texas can have slavery again!

Maybe they can hook up again with Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi

[opihimoimoi]

15. Rate of monetary exchange.....250 Texas (Chips)(Dollars)?....... to 1 US Dollar

[MrsBrady]

16. just a young legislator trying to get attention

just repuke madness

nothing to see here, move along...

but here's his link to the texas house, if you want to give him some attention.
really?
http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist16/creighton.php

He's in his second term.

[Kahuna]

18. Is that a threat or a promise? nt

[Diane R]

19. Don't let the back door hit ya.......

[liberaltrucker]

20. I emailed the link to my (AL) State Rep.

Please introduce in the next session of the Alabama Legislature this resolution of the Legislature of the State of Texas:

<Texas resolution>

Mr Representative, It's common knowledge that if Alabama, Texas, Georgia,
Tennessee, South Carolina, ad nauseum, would just secede and go about their
regressive business, not only would the United States of America be relieved of
a great burden, but President Obama could FINALLY do his duties as President
of the (loyal) United States.

Sincerely,

Me
My address
My town
My cell number

[No.23]

21. Secession has been on many Vermonters' minds...

for a long time:

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/

And their numbers are growing.

I know that many of you would like to think that opposing an over-extending centralized government is a rightie thing.

But it isn't.

As many former neighbors of Howard Dean will remind you.

[stillcool]

27. The USSR broke up...

maybe we will too. I live in the Northeast, and I wouldn't mind a bit to be cut loose from the people who keep electing assholes to fuck up our country.

[RoyGBiv]

32. No, not just a rightie thing ...

But it is universally a stupid person thing.

[No.23]

38. Did you ever consider...

making broad, categorical characterizations to be a qualifying aspect for joining the stupid people club?

Just wondering.

[RoyGBiv]

40. I make very few ...

On the issue of secession, I have no doubt that I may safely extrapolate, based on a rather large sampling of individuals with whom I am personally familiar, that those who advocate it are stupid.

Then there's the issue of legality. Here's the test. If the argument put forth by a secession advocate at any point fails to recognize and directly address Texas v. White, the person using that argument is stupid. If that person addresses Texas v. White by dismissing it as irrelevant, that person is stupid.

They're not necessarily wholly stupid. Some are rather intelligent individuals on the whole, but on this subject, they unwaveringly allow their inner-idiot to blossom.

And I make no apologies for holding that opinion.

Do you count yourself among the secession advocates?

OnEdit: Just to clarify. Another class of secession advocate does exist. They tend not even to think about the legalities nor the actual consequences. They are generally just angry about something and default to the extreme. These people aren't necessarily stupid, but they are uninformed, sometimes stubbornly so.

[No.23]

44. Thank you for...

asking that question instead of assuming anything.

It opens the door for a potentially constructive dialogue.

What I am an advocate of is any system which allows me to have the maximum, direct influence of how my tax monies are spent.

From my personal experience, I have found that local and state communities permit that to be the case (through local referendums, for example) than the federal community does.

As long as I pay federal taxes, and they are spent by the Federal Government to harm people and deny them their rights, I am opposed to the system that perpetuates that.

People have more direct influence and control, over quality of life issues, through more localized systems of government.

So yes. I'm an advocate of much more influence and control over the quality of my life and my neighbors' lives.

The same holds true for public education. I trust my community's management of it much more than I do Uncle Sam's funding-based influence of it.

Isn't self-dependence a good thing for our country?

[RoyGBiv]

51. We could quibble over details ...

... of the merits of what you advocate. On the whole, and in theory, I understand and sympathize with your basic premise.

For the purposes of the topic of secession, though, none of that requires secession, nor would it necessarily be achievable if a state were its own sovereign nation, independent of the United States. Note that Texas, for example, came into the Union in the first place because it couldn't pay its debts. Another line of thought often used by creditor states -- roughly defined as states that put more money in tax dollars into federal coffers than they take out -- is that since they are creditor states, they could exist find on their own and guide their own expenditures much more efficiently and according to their own interests. What this argument fails to take into account is the competitive advantage these states have because they are a part of a nation of states that allows them to conduct their economic activity largely unhindered by the kinds of restrictions that would be in place were they independent.

For a historical example of an genuine expression of this kind of argument, back and forth, consult _Northern Editorials on Secession_ or any of the histories of Civil War causation that focus on economics, especially those within a Marxist framework. (The Marxist perspective has many flaws but also offers valuable insights into the economic situation at the time.) Prior to the firing on Ft. Sumter, many in the Union were willing to allow secession to take place if the only alternative were war. A debate among editorialists, financiers, and merchants came out of this in which such matters were discussed as the economic impact on the Ohio Valley of not having unhindered access to the Gulf of Mexico. People in New York, who on the surface didn't seem to need any southern states to carry on just fine, were concerned about the closing of markets and of the sudden end to the internal trade.

Clearly conditions are vastly different today, but in reality we as a collection of states are more interconnected now than we ever have been at any point in our history. The problems that existed in 1860 are different, but the underlying foundation of those problems is similar.

Vermont, Texas, etc. wants to secede? Fine. Now, show me the plan for survival afterward. (Vermont would have more problems than Texas, I imagine. What are Vermont's dominant industries and how would they be affected by having to negotiate trade and other sorts of exchange treaties with the US to continue to carry on those industries?)

Secession is an idea that sounds good when one is utterly fed up with the way a country is run. It, or things like it, have a very poor track record in reality, though.

Edit: Grammar

[anonymous171]

42. Oh God it's Anarchist time! nt

[No.23]

48. I'm guessing that...

when you were a child growing up...

you feared that anarchy would ensue...

if your mom and.or dad...

didn't make the major decisions for you.

This is just a guess, mind you.

Based on your characterization that a state wanting enhanced powers of self-determination...

constitutes anarchy.

[kestrel91316]

22. Good riddance. I am not feeling very charitable to TX in the wake of

a series of nasty unsolicited emails I got from a Texan because I was one of many people an email he took offense at was sent to and he decided to harrass all the friends of the original sender.

I'm not sure what Texans think they will EAT if they leave the union. They get most their food from other states since they are such a barren wasteland these days.

[readmoreoften]

23. If that happens, Austin will likely secede from Texas.

That'll be fun. Hopefully, we'll have a right-of-way straight to NYC and San Fran.

[Pat Curl]

74. What's holding you back?

Just move! While you can. Before we put up a fence on the Red River and trap you in.

[DBoon]

24. Will this make Texans living elsewhere

Illegal immigrants?

[FreakinDJ]

25. Fan-Fair from some Freeper

[liberaltrucker]

26. bon au revoir, auf Wiedersehen

bueno adiós , хороший пока

In any language, Bye, assholes. Good riddance.

:puke:

I forgot one, Arabic:

إلى اللقاء

[Urban Prairie]

29. After TX secedes, they can crown

Emperor Chimpy I to rule over their country, I sympathize with liberals living there though. Being surrounded by conservative clowns like these secessionists can't be very easy. I read their comments on other internet websites and blogs, they act as if the majority of the US agrees with them.

Uh no, sorry.

[AnnieBW]

30. Fine

You Texans can fix Galveston up all by yourselves, then. Don't call FEMA the next time you get hit by a hurricane.

[RoyGBiv]

31. This is closer to nullification ...

It's not a secession resolution.

This sort of thing somewhat regularly gets introduced in various legislatures by whackjobs and 10th Amendment enthusiasts. But I repeat myself.

Not that the 10th Amendment is unimportant, but the way these idiots interpret it is ... well, dumb.

[NBachers]

33. Do they have a fund I can contribute to?

[alittlelark]

34. Growing up in New Mexico, Texans were always disliked.

They didn't know how to ski and invaded our slopes, they didn't know how to 'dine' and invaded our restaurants, they didn't know about 'land' and tried to build developments, They didn't know about history, and tried to lay claim to much of ours.....


I know I'm not talking about all Texans...but most of those I came across in the 80's and 90's fit that bill.


And they were PROUD of their ignorance (They were TEXANS).

PS - I will lay odds very few DUers fit this bill.

[blonndee]

36. Ha! Just saw your post. Native New Mexican here.

See my post below. :)

[alittlelark]

41. Albuquerqean here... Went to NMSU, so also a southie.

Where ya from?

[blonndee]

47. Originally from Eastern New Mexico

(aka "Little Texas"). So LOTS of "Texas exposure." Never got infected, though, thankfully. :)

eta: I now live in SE NM; my family lives in one of the little vacation towns in the lovely mountains hidden down here. Hence my rant against Texans flying their damned flags down here.

[alittlelark]

49. Not Clovis....I hope!

Clovis is 'little Texas'


I'm assuming your family is in Ruidoso?

[blonndee]

52. Yup, I'm from Clovis. How'dya guess?

Good guess. Believe it or not, I currently live somewhere worse than that, though. I really might as well be in Texas at this point. And believe THIS or not, I'm moving this summer to a place in Oklahoma that's better. :)

Ruidoso is close, and just as true when it comes to the "Texan Invasion." Just a little south, though. To be fair, lots of the Texans are nice, and we do owe our tourist livelihood to them, but jeez. It makes me glad to see the prices jacked up so high in the stores sometimes. By the way, the locals don't pay the same price. Eat it, Texans. ;)

[alittlelark]

53. Try heading south instead!

The Jemez River Valley is a great tourist zone (depending on what you do). We have a place in Jemez Springs - It is a true slice of heaven!

[BlooInBloo]

43. Heh. I miss Taos.

[alittlelark]

54. Everyone that has ever been there misses Taos.

[L0oniX]

65. I miss Los Alamos and friends.

[blonndee]

35. Let them go. Please. And hurry up.

I'm sorry, I know there are so many great Texan DUers, and I have little room to talk since my "second state" is Oklahoma.

But lord, I HATE Texas. I have relatives and friends there, and again, I really don't mean to put down ALL Texans, not at all, and I know I hate it when people talk crap about Oklahomans, as much as Oklahoma generally might deserve it. But as a native New Mexican, I've been subjected to the "Texas Superiority Complex" my entire life. So many Texans are just so freakin sure that their state is the biggest and the best, and anybody who thinks otherwise is anti-Texan, and therefore anti-American, and thus ought to be executed RIGHT AWAY. Jeez. Shut up already! It's kind of like the old cliches about being good in bed or being well-endowed: If you have to talk about it, you don't have much to talk about.

One small example of this that really irks me: I'm so sick of the freaking Texas flags being flown in New Mexico vacation spots. What, they think they can claim the beautiful places in New Mexico as their own? I guess they do think that. When I see those flags I always think, "If Texas is so effing great, why do you have to come to New Mexico to vacation?" :eyes:

[RoyGBiv]

45. It's part of their invasion plan ...

They've never quite gotten over having to cede most of what is now New Mexico so the US would assume its debt.

Since I've moved here, whenever I run across one of these idiots that enjoys spouting off proudly about how Texas was its own nation once and ought to be again, I like to remind them that the state agreed to annexation in the first place because it couldn't pay its debts. Texas -- The Original Welfare Queen.

[anonymous171]

37. Obama should start wiretapping the TXGOP. nt

[Historic NY]

46. Going back to Mexico, are they?

[bird gerhl]

56. YES

This would be the most suitable arrangement. Wonderful idea! Cede present day Texas to Mexico, then build a border wall before the Texans ahve a chance to escape! :bounce:

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. No, mexico does not want them, way, TOO CRAZY

[cherish44]

50. They're declaring sovereignty not seceding

Just saying...we don't have to listen to the US government or follow any federal laws we don't like... neener neener neener! There are similar bills in quite a few other states (mostly of the red variety).

[warrior1]

58. If they want to

secede, then leave the country and will take your state(s).

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. It's the Ron Paul numbnuts

They went to the capitol in MO and lobbied for this 10th amendment stuff too. I am on their email list cause a bunch of them used to be active in our anti war movement here. Most have stopped being part of our efforts to stop the war and worked on Ron Paul's presidential campaign. Since the election they have moved on to this 10th amendment states rights nonsense.

They even allied themselves with the pro life crazies, who are also promoting this 10th amendment talking point.

It's hard to decide whether to laugh or cry about these fools.

[NoPasaran]

60. Sorry, haters, we're not going anywhere

This resolution is just one of dozens of idiotic pieces of legislation introduced every session that goes nowhere. Chances are your state's legislature is no different.

[Ishoutandscream2]

66. Yes, we're not going anywhere

I feel the haters wish this were true. This is just an extremist stirring up shit. The majority of Texans don't want to leave the union. And rational thinkers know that's the truth.

Just let the haters get it out of their systems.

[spanone]

61. sooner the better

[Horse with no Name]

70. Is this a fucking joke? I knew they made bad country songs from

chain emails--but now they are introducing them as legislation?
What a bunch of dumb fucking republicans.:rofl:

[sendero]

71. The laughable bleatings..

... of deludinoids.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Damn they are faster than I thought they'd be

Great Depression and civil war all wrapped into one... JOY

Oh and the cold civil war, may go hot sooner than expected

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

78. Words of wisdom from a Texan.

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." Butch Hancock

[Canuckistanian]

80. WHEREAS Texas has the highest concentration of nutjobs

BE IT RESOLVED that this bill will be used as evidence that radical right-wing dipsticks shall have no business posting horseshit like this on the official State website.

All in favor.

[MadBadger]

81. I say we let them secede, and then declare war.

:P

[Mr. Hyde]

82. have fun with that. I think I'll just watch it on CNN.

[ladywnch]

84. fine. pass it before they get stimulus monies. pull all their fed funding

for highways, schools, etc. close any military installations - there are plenty of other states that will be happy to have those installations. let them indeed be 'sovereign' (remember junior trying to explain sovereignty)...let them stand on their own. who needs them!