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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 10:28 PM
Original message
Stalking the Shadows: Lab Rat
Edited on Sun Feb-22-09 10:38 PM by shadowknows69
It’s official. I’m now an unwitting pawn and research subject of the Dark Lord “Big Pharma”. In truth I have been for a while; in my recent battles with various health issues I am now reaping a bitter harvest due to not having any kind of coverage for two decades.

I must admit some fault of my own, I won’t cry foul on all of society, but the “system” must bear some of the blame. I have had a few jobs in that time that offered some sort of health coverage, and I chose not to enroll in something that was close to a full third of a weekly salary; choosing instead to use that money to pursue…ahem…habits, that probably caused some of the damage I am currently trying to repair.

Past only serves as prologue to this tale though, and the path I’m on now, although I’m getting some medical attention finally, is nearly as distressing as the self-destructive ones I used to travel.

To put current events in a nutshell, I currently do have a primary physician finally, but sadly no insurance still to speak of. The only way I’m able to manage this much medical care is due to the fact my mother has been a long time patient of this office and was able to convince them to allow me to be seen on the promise of sporadic payments instead of the “cash at time of visit” policy they usually have.

Obviously I am extremely grateful to them for this opportunity to get even the rudimentary care I couldn’t normally, but I’m finding that my treatment seems to be developing a disturbing pattern. I’m on so many pills for my various ailments I’ve almost lost count, costing us, in cash, to the tune of several hundred dollars a month. To my Doctor’s credit, they get a decent supply of samples of some of my more expensive meds they are able to give me, offsetting some of the damage to our already hopeless budget.

One medication I’m on for high blood pressure I’ve literally never had to pay for; a double edged sword this may prove to be, however, as I don’t even know how much to expect to pay monthly once the sample “gravy train” runs out, and I’m still expected to be on this pill or risk having my heart explode I presume.

Here lies the main problem with today’s medications, or at least the ones I’m currently on apparently. Even if the medications in question seem to be fixing a particular problem, there is this vague aura of fear given to you about ceasing their usage.

For my own part, when I started getting treatment, my blood pressure was through the roof. I’ve had back injuries that effectively put me in a chair most of the day so I knew I was also a prime candidate for circulatory problems and my weight, smoking and diet have always been a bane to my health, (no shit Sherlock right?) so I got some appropriate tests and blood work done.

Soon after one circulatory test I was called by the office to inform me that they wanted to put my on a blood thinner and I should go pick up the prescription they just called in for me. Being a good, trusting patient, I complied and nearly died of my presumably impending heart attack when the pharmacy attendant asked me for $140 for my new monthly prescription. I had no choice at the time but to embarrassingly ask the pharmacist if they could sell it to me in seven pill portions because a full month would cost more than my family could spare at the time. They agreed and I’d like to take the time to give a good grade to Walgreen’s. Despite the fact they are a big corporate chain they seem to hire competent and caring people in their pharmacy, at least in my limited experience, and many times I’ve received more valuable advice from them than from my doctor.

Time passes and my blood pressure goes back to normal consistently for almost a year, the meds doubtless playing their part in that but as I said previously that seemed to be the end of the conversations about my BP meds. I was presumably just supposed to keep taking them indefinitely as stopping them would hurl me quicker to my demise than if I’d never eaten the first pill.

Of course this was never said, but in some way it seems implied. I queried my doctor a few times about ceasing the more expensive blood thinner and replacing it with aspirin or even taking it every other day instead of daily if we couldn’t afford it any longer and the response I got was simply something to the effect of “Well, you really should be on these”. Duh, ok, says the stupid trusting patient once again.

Recently though I had an experience that started me thinking about the possibility that I was indeed some helpless rat running around a maze of medical corruption, chasing some phantom piece of cheese I’ll never actually obtain.

I had some new blood work done, a request I made myself instead of my doctor suggesting it as I feel she should do at reasonable intervals. Call me crazy for wanting a little actual attention to my case for my 90 bucks for 15 minutes. Anyway, this particular donation to the blood lab showed alarming numbers in the cholesterol department, which I learned from a call telling me, wait for it, I had a new prescription to start to help lower it, and orders for a new test in 6-8 weeks.

Let’s review quickly shall we? My doctor knows I have no insurance, my family is facing a financial crisis like we’ve not known and I already have more meds a month than we can afford.

I went to pick up my new pills, and again to my office’s credit they had a full month of free samples for me, a coupon for a free second month and another “special offer” from the manufacturer to get your next five prescriptions for “no more than $25 a month”; all well and good but I had had it with my doctor offering me nothing in the way of care but the pill of the month. I demanded to see the head nurse or PA on duty and asked quite frankly why I wasn’t being given any actual medical advice with my new drug addiction, like perhaps some dietary tips on how to lower my cholesterol, you know, like doctors used to do.

A nurse there who has been very nice to me, even calling me personally whenever there are samples of my meds so I can get first dibs on them went and got me some nutritional brochures. She smiled a bit when I asked if my doctor could be “bothered” to do such a thing, obviously the answer was no as she took the initiative herself. I expressed my concerns about just being thrown on a pill for every problem that crops up without some kind of consultation and that I expected that to change.

Despite my bluster, again the good little rat scurried with his new scrip to the pharmacy. I had a month before I had to actually fill one but I wanted them to run it through the drug interaction database as I don’t completely trust my doctor’s attention to it. No bad mixes with my half-dozen other pills thankfully and as I said I got the first month free but as I was unwrapping my new pharmaceutical present I noticed the normal price for the new meds was around $140 a month. Oh, did I also mention that the pill is apparently so new that Walgreen’s didn’t even have it in stock yet? I had to pick it up two days later, thank the Gods for those pharma reps and their free candy huh?

Dearest doctor of mine,
What the fuck part of “I have no fucking money” do you fail to understand exactly? The fact that we only pay on your bill about three times a year should have been a red flag.


I do a lot of my own research on my meds; Webmd.com is a great site, although I doubt doctors or Big Pharma like it much. Well my new pill was so new they barely had any info on it and only one customer review which was basically- “I’ve been on this for nine days and I’m in Hell”. I found a litany of potential side effects that seemed sure to worsen most of my other existing problems.

Skin rashes or hive breakouts- The review I referenced above spoke of this. The writer essentially said it made him itch so bad he was ready to scratch his skin off. I’ve always had such epidermal problems myself so this should be a bonus huh?

Muscle aches- Hey great, I have a herniated disc or two, arthritis in my left shoulder and severe joint pain in my hands and knees already. Thanks much.

May cause bleeding when combined with blood thinners and blood pressure medicine- Awesome, I’m practically a hemophiliac already due to two other pills. This should insure that I could potentially bleed to death with a paper cut.

Irregular bowel movements or constipation- Excellent, I guess all that effort I’ve made to get more fiber into my diet, which had been.um.moving things along nicely, was all for naught now that I can only shit every three days or so, but I have to pee every ten minutes. Feeling great about that.

You get the picture. Inexplicably some of my family still actually wonders why I don’t trust these bozos that hold our lives in their hands.

Well your little lab rat will have plenty of data on your new pill for you Big Pharma. I don’t suppose I’ll see any of that corporate profit from your experiments but I guess if you keep my ticker ticking it’s all worth it right? I’m nearly certain my share of the proceeds will be in some way kicked to my doctor for her unending loyalty to the legal pushers.

I feel stuck in my maze and I think the exit has been locked, and it’s certain that the cheese will be quite spoiled by the time I find it.
-S
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good read and so true.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Have you called Costco?
The price of their meds is the cheapest here. I don't believe you have to be a member to use the pharmacy. Some of our supermarkets here have almost free or really low cost,ie 4 dollars for a rx from a list of several medications. Publix supermarkets here will fill a list of ten antibiotics for free.
Just some ideas. Checking around for prices can really help.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. No Costco. Newer meds don't have much in the way of generic options.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. As someone with both health issues herself
and someone who works in the biopharmaceutical industry a few points:
1) If you don't like your doctor and feel they are pushing meds you don't need, find a new one. I've never had a doctor that pushed meds on me I didn't really want unless there was absolutely no choice (I do have a chronic illness that WILL hurt me if left untreated).
2) Any good doctor will tell you that cholesterol can be controlled with diet and exercise -SOMETIMES. Some people have family histories that say that medication is more effective--thats the case for me.
3) You can find SCIENTIFIC info on any drug by going to the FDA website. Clinical trials have oodles of data on possible and probable side effects--that is much of the purpose of clinical trials.
4) Get all your meds from ONE pharmacy..that way if your doctor should accidently proscribe something that might interact with another drug it will be picked up right away.
5) bottom line is that if you don't want to take a med most docs won't make you, unless they really think its necessary.
Despite what tinfoil hatters like to think, doctors and others like me in the biopharmaceutical industry aren't simply soulless money grubbers..we are in this to help people. Your statement about web md is simply bullshit. My doctor LOVES the fact that I am well read and educated about my disease and lines of treatment.
Overall, its good to do your research but remember when you read about side effects that legally ALL possible sides are listed and that doesn't mean YOU are going to suffer all or even ANY of them.
And you aren't an "experiment" thats what clinical trials are.
Signed,
Your not so naive or foolish evil Nazi money grubbing biotechnology immunological specialist. Because thats what I am right? :sarcasm:
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. money grubbing biotechnology immunological specialist. Because thats what I am right?
Maybe? Never been in your office to my knowledge.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Can't go to another doctor
What part of "I have no money or insurance" did you not understand?
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. does your city/county have a clinic for people with no money?
My town has one, but I don't fit all of the qualifications.

You can go to your county and or city gov websites to see if there is one in your
town.

The one in my town also does dental care.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. My wife works and we fall in that amazingly large gray zone
Of making "too much"(pretty much anything over 16k a year) to qualify but funny, it seems we still end up operating in the red most of the time. I had a case worker in one of our attempts to get me assistance basically agree with me when I asked if I'd be better off divorcing my wife because she makes "so much money".
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. +1
:yourock:
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. walk every day
your cholesterol will lower substantially. Red Rice Yeast, Chromium, Vitamin C with bioflavonoids lowers cholesterol, ginger reduces cholesterol and thins the blood improving circulation.

Only you can take care of your health. Glad you have your blood panel done on a regular basis.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Good advice!
There are so many lost in the madness of the illusion of disease, when it fact they suffer from nutritional deficiencies. Once they start eating right, etc, and most importantly get accurate info, they can begin to heal themselves.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
34. Can't argue with that.
I need to be more dilligent myself. Of course it will help when it is no longer 12 deg. F outside.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. $4.00 generics, YourRXCard, Mail Order, and Canadian - about
my mother takes about 10 different meds. Her medicare D provider from last year
kicked her off their program so she went 1 month without coverage.

1. Generic Lists at Dept Stores and Pharmacies:
I found that I could get a months supply of about 5 of her meds for $4.00 a month at Walmart
or $5-6 a month using generic plans at CVS. CVS charges you a $10 fee to use their cheap generic program. KMart also has it. Im sure there are others too.
There are 400 meds on the list that you can get at these low prices.
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf

(Im no fan of WalMart, but when it comes to meds you need to save all you can. WMart does not charge
a fee to get the discounted price on that list of generics)

2. Free Prescription Card.
For medicines not covered by the 400 item generic list, you can use this
free prescription card:
www.YourRxCard.com

This is the only card I have found that you can go online and see what price you can
get the medicine at in the participating stores and pharmacies in your town/neighborhood.
You just type in the name of the medicine and your zip code and it gives you the EXACT cost.
It is good for the items that are NOT on the "list of 400".

I got some of Mom's meds for about 30% of regular retail.

3. Mail Order Discount. I also found a mail order pharmacy out of New Jersey that checks out,
GreatRX Buys (New Jersey)
http://greatrxbuys.com/index.shtml

and they might be easier to use and just as cheap as a Canadian pharmacy.

Before Medicare D, I used to purchase Mom's more expensive meds at this pharmacy, and didn't have any problem:

4. Canadian Meds:
Canadian Pharmacy Online - Internet Drugstore - Buy Canadian ...Buy discount prescription drugs from our licensed Canadian pharmacy. Save on prescription drugs online or by mail order. Universal Drugstore is a discount ...
www.universaldrugstore.com

This is the result of my research, I even used a spreadsheet to compare pricing.

I do not have any financial interest in any of these companies.
Maybe if more of us new about the best ways to save money, we could drive the prices down more.

Good luck.



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yy4me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Don't forget Target. Are you a Veteran? The VA supplied my
husbands medication for $9.00 per prescription per month. Two of them were very expensive otherwise. The other stuff like baby dose aspirin and vitamins, you do better buying them on sale at a regular pharmacy.

BTW: You are wise to check interactions. I take certain pills that have been finally adjusted so that we finally have medications that do not make me itch all over. I am allergic to stuff I never even knew about. One of them Effexor caused a severe reaction that put me in bed for 3 days under medical supervision.

I have changed from Walmart for generic and regular Meds to Target. Walmart missed a "do not take if" warning and filled a prescription that should have been caught by their checking mechanisms. They did not warn me. Took the pain pill and had a miserable bit of complications for 2 days. I reported this to my Doctor, and he said to talk to the pharmacist. I went to see them and this pharmacist said it was my Doc's fault.

Doctors cannot remember very pill you take and this was for pain from a fall. Completely unassociated from other things for which I visit him. The pharmacist said its not his fault. $42.00 down the drain. From now on, I am going to ask to read the paper warnings that come with medicine before I pay for it. If there is any "do not take" stuff that they miss, I will not pay for it and cancel the prescription and back to the Doc I'll go.

Half of the warning stuff cannot be interpreted by a layman anyway.

Note: Part of this should have been referred to the OP. Sorry.
yy4me
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I got my meds at Wally World once. ONCE.
I was on Klonopin at the time for anxiety and, I shit you not, the first scrip I bought there, while cheaper, was a full 6 pills short. I require two simple things of my pharmacist. One, they give me the correct pills and two THEY CAN FUCKING COUNT TO THIRTY. More likely some employee saw some free candy for the taking.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. I recomend you start studying holistic health. There is a lot of info online
and you can browse the books at your library and health food stores (I hope you have one nearby)--a lot of time the people working in those stores are knowledgeable. My dad got his blood pressure and blood sugar under control in about 6 weeks by eliminating most carbs from his diet. Most doctors don't get much training in nutrition or wellness so that is something you have to take on yourself.

Best of luck in dealing with your health issues.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. "...doctors don't get much training in nutrition ..."
How do you know? And what exactly is "wellness?"

I recommend approaching "holistic" medicine with skepticism. Frankly, Galenic ideas about internal balance and harmony have been completely discredited. The human body is not one complete unit. It is actually a multitude of discrete systems. Usually, a systemic problem is caused by the malfunctioning of one of those systems or organs. That is why medical doctors who actually know how the human body works do not rely on holistic approaches.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I respectfully disagree and support natural health.
The only real road to health is through nutrition and balance. No disease can thrive in an alkalized state. Even something as simple as eating a banana and celery everyday can significantly lower one's blood pressure, and of course good old exercise. At least both sides of the coin can agree on that.

It's one thing to be skeptical of this herb or that herb, but to dismiss nutrition/holistic treatment by putting it into some kind of voodoo magic category is in my opinion ignorant.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. "No disease can thrive in an alkalized state."
:rofl:
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. Alkalized state?
People used to eat nothing but natural foods and they walked everywhere too. It did not stop them from dying in droves of smallpox, child birth, staph infection*, pneumonia, childhood diseases and cancer.

*President Coolige's college-aged son noticed an abrasion on his foot one night. A week later he was dead from a strep infection. Doctors knew exactly what caused it, but were powerless to prevent it. In the 1930's, FDR Jr. came down with the same infection, but located in his throat. After several days of fever it was clear that the disease would be fatal. Desperate, Eleanor R. told doctors to use an experimental new German treatment called sulfa. FDR Jr. made a dramatic recover. It wasn't natural food that saved him. It was chemical therapy.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Doctors don't get much training in nutrition or wellness?
Holistic medicine practitioners don't get much training in nutrition, medicine, science, logic, or ethics.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Holistic doctors do get nutritional training, but they are in the minority of all doctors.
And in most cases it's because they seek out the information themselves after med school.

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D-Lee Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. Some helpful links -- and a lot of sympathy
You do sound as if you have done a lot of examination of your issues (and your drugs, too). Take a look at the links below.

This article addresses medical costs in hard times, including the programs for free drugs from manufacturers for those who cannot afford the cost (link to article and comments): http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/2/142540/4435/498/692073

For the stress and your shoulder and blood pressure, look at www.EmoFree.com -- it is a form of acupressure and it really does work.

Take a look at http://www.PeoplesPharmacy.com and search for your conditions and your medications. Many comments and home remedies can be found there and the site is run by actual pharmacists; it's particular attraction is that it stays pretty mainstream and doesn't seem to attract loonies.

And, are you sure you don't have diabetes? That would go along with so many of the problems you mention. If you have high readings on your blood glucose, look at www.Diabetes-Book.com and read the "read it on-line" material, which tells you how to address the problem by a low carbohydrate diet.

Please do try these links. You will find some significant assistance.

And best wishes!

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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I suspected I was a prime candidate for diabetes
Which was much of the reason I asked for my first round of blood work. I was sufficiently amazed when they told me, both times now, that my blood sugar count looked fine. Thyroid checked out, no signs of kidney disease etc. Only problem this time was cholesterol count.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
16. Once again y'all have proven that the best help/info in the world is not google but DU
Sincerely, thank you all for your advice. If it doesn't necessarily help me it might be a boon to others in similar dire circumstances.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sorry to hear your financial troubles.
That sounds like a horrible position to be in. :hug:

Medication is not perfect, but it generally does what it is intended to do. AFAIK, blood pressure medication is not a cure, but merely a means of controlling a chronic problem. Unless something else causes a reduction in HBP, one usually needs to take it indefinitely. When I lose weight (now that my sinuses have been fixed and I can do things again) I may not need mine anymore, but we shall see.

The standard is not whether or not chemical medications work like magic--they do not. The standard is whether or not you are better off with them or without them. Are the side effects you describe worse than HBP? Well, considering HBP can kill without warning, I doubt it. And I trust these "bozos" a lot more than I trust an anonymous internet complaint.

Doctors have a very specific job. When I went for the follow-up visit after my sinus surgery, I was very excited that it had turned out so well and was a little disappointed that he had no emotional reaction to it at all. Of course, that's not his job and I was not there for a social visit. His job is to fix the problem and to move on to the next patient. In six months, I doubt he would remember me if I ran into him on the street. Still, he did fix my nose and sinuses and removed a condition that has made my life miserable for 30 years.

Your certainty of your doctor's corruption is a pretty serious accusation. Do you have any evidence for it at all?
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. It sounds as though your doctor is giving you the latest greatest offerings
for prescriptions. Its great to get the free samples but... a) once you have to start buying them they are the ones that are the most expensive and there are no generics; and b) these are the ones least tested and most likely to have side effects and create problems for people. Doctors are often coerced by pharma reps into prescribing the latest and greatest instead of the tried and true.

There are very cheap blood thinners available, coumadin being one, unless there is a specific reason you need the one you are on. There are older and cheaper statins too if you really need them. Watching your diet and herbs such as hawthorn berry may do the trick. Good luck.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. If you think high BP and cholesterol meds are bad...
just wait until you have to pay for that triple bypass, which was probably Big Pharmas fault. For some reason.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. your ass is showing...
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Says a person recommending holistic medicine.
:rofl:
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. My sympathies,
But what you need to do is get off the MSM treadmill. An elder relative of mine was on a whole mess of meds, for this and that, but still felt terrible. She decided to "fire" her doctor,stopped the meds, got educated about natural ways to heal and began to feel much, much better. I'm not preaching or nagging. Just trying to help you see there is another way. It's not all snake oil! Get Well Soon.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. Two good holistic doctors have newsletters. Dr. Jonathan Wright, Nutrition and Healing,
is my favorite. He also has a searchable website when you subscribe to the newsltter. He is a graduate of Harvard and has his M.D. from the University of Michigan. Dr. Robert J. Rowan is another good doctor. His newsletter is Second Opinion. He is a graduate of Johns Hopkins University and graduate of the University of California, San Francisco School of Medicine.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. Damn
Shadow, you have my utmost sympathies. I may bitch about the NHS sometimes but geez...
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WindRiverMan Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-09 07:48 PM
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32. Red Yeast Rice for cholesterol!
I am not one to play around with the natural "herbal remedies". Some are founded in science, some are complete hoaxes. However, due to some of my grad work in plant secondary metabolites I found a bit of interesting info. Chinese red yeast rice was the precursor for the statins. The drug Mevacor is a synethetic version of the compound produced by it.

The problem with the herbals that do work is that there are no real controls, no dosages, no oversight, etc.

Still, if I needed a statin and could not afford one, I would be taking the Chinese Red Yeast Rice as an alternative. They are pennies per pill.

Just a thought.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-09 05:06 PM
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35. Sounds like you have a valuable ally...
...in that nurse who actually takes the time to keep track of your needs. And you've already noted your appreciation for the doctor's willingness to take on an uninsured, sporadic-pay patient. Small blessings but worth counting, and you've duly counted them.

That said.

With all respect to the doctor and staff, it's incredibly difficult to practice good medicine today, and the pharmaceutical companies have done a lot to add to those difficulties.

To be fair to the many truly dedicated, altruistic people who WORK FOR big pharmaceutical companies, much effort is genuinely focused on doing the right stuff. It costs vast amounts of money and effort to make even tiny, incremental advances sometimes, and often the money and effort goes only into ruling out something that won't work. Helpful in a negative way, but it doesn't do much for the suffering patients, nor yet for Big Pharma's bottom lines. So it's not too surprising that they devote vastly more resources into finding new chemical therapies for terrible life-threatening scourges like baldness and premature ejaculation than on going down yet another doubtful path to a possible tiny step forward in the fight against chronic, life-threatening conditions that have a complex etiology and a welter of exacerbating factors that include behavioral and environmental origins.

OK. I've been fair to everyone, haven't I? Can I get on with it, now?

By and large, few of the new drugs is that much of an improvement over old drugs, in some cases, very old drugs. The new drug might offer a 5% chance of improved outcomes to some (but not all) patients with specific disease profiles, which may or may not match YOUR profile. Or it might offer an alternative to something that is known to have an annoying side effect on 12% of people who take it. (Of course, while it doesn't cause side effect X, as experienced by 12% of the people who take Oldavil, Newavil might very well cause side effect Y in 8% of the people who take it...)

The pharmacopoeia is getting too vast and complex for most primary physicians to manage effectively, and they grab for any help they can-- usually from (surprise!) Big Pharma, which spends vast wads of money on very helpful and important-sounding resources about all the Great New Drugs available. But they don't spend much on helpful resources comparing the effectiveness, side effects, tolerance, and other factors of Newavil versus Oldavil, because while Newavil might apparently result in improved outcomes for five percent more patients with fewer side effects in twenty percent of the people in the study, they don't always tell you this:

1. The "improved results" might not be all that impressive. That is, Newavil might have enabled five percent more patients to keep lower levels of LDL cholesterol over a two-year period, but the levels might not have been that MUCH lower.

2. The "fewer side effects" might mean something like this: Taking Oldavil, 47 patients out of 1000 experienced difficulty sleeping and night sweats. Whereas, taking Newavil, the only side effect worth noting affected thirty-six patients out of 1000, and it was painful constipation. Well, yee-haw.

3. There is a generic version of Oldavil that is available for $11 for a month's supply. Newavil, being a TERRIFIC IMPROVEMENT, and NEW, NEW, NEW!!! (and with a HUGE R&D nut to make up and a multi-million-dollar marketing campaign to support) costs $236 for a month's supply, and there is no generic.

But doctors don't always have all of this information available on all the drugs available for all the conditions they might be presented with. All they DO have is information that Newavil has a better rate of improved outcomes, and lower incidence of side effects than Oldavil, and so if a patient hasn't been responding as well as the doctor would like to Oldavil, why not try Newavil and see if that works. And here's a buttload of FREE samples, to help!

Sigh.

They try, they really do.

Most doctors, I mean.

But you're doing exactly the right thing, Shadow. Take it into your own hands. Research stuff. Use the Web. Assemble information, formulate a couple of key questions, and THEN get back to your doctor.

Especially for chronic vascular disease and the constellation of related problems that contribute to cardiac illnesses, good outcomes depend far less on medical professionals and far more on the patient being willing to educate themself, seek out and compare information, ask questions and make decisions and take charge of their own course of treatment (and take the responsibility, too-- don't hold the doc responsible if you make a fully informed choice that doesn't turn out well) and most of all, make the behavioral and lifestyle changes that contribute as much to success as many medicines.

Generally, when a new drug really IS a "miracle drug," we know it within a fairly short time, maybe five years or so. If a drug has been around three or four years already and it hasn't been on the cover of TIME or Newsweek and a bunch of medical journals and the pharmaceutical company hasn't split its stock three or four times, etc., it's not gonna solve all your problems. A very great many "new" drugs are, in fact, reformulations of existing medications with changes so tiny that the difference in effect for the patient is negligible. But it's enough to patent, and thus to continue making a big profit on.

So. Sorry not to be more encouraging. But I don't think we'll ever go back, even with national health, to the days when we could go to a doctor who would have only one or two possible therapies for what ailed us, get one prescribed with great confidence, and then either get better and think the doc was really great, or die and figure it was too much for medical science anyway. Those days are gone forever. We're on our own. Our health is in our hands. Professionals are (should be, anyway) there to help and serve us and get us access to what we need and provide information and give us their technical judgments. But we're the last line.

Hang in there. I like the stuff you write here. Keep it up.

diffidently,
Bright
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