What's this? 11 year old kills his dad's pregnant girlfriend with a shotgun?

[burythehatchet]

The shotgun was a present from his father?

:popcorn:

[NeedleCast]

1. Link?

[Myrina]

2. Yes, the shotgun was - I believe - a Christmas gift.

:freak:

[FloridaJudy]

7. Jesus would be proud. eom

[Sultana]

93. What the fuck does Jesus have to do w/ this?

[FloridaJudy]

102. It was a *Christmas* gift!

I don't know why that makes it seem even more horrible than if it had been a birthday gift, but it does.

[Sultana]

105. Hey, blame Santa....he is the dude giving out gifts

Come Christmas time Jesus becomes a baby, why would you blame a baby? :cry:

:D

[FloridaJudy]

112. Who's blaming Jesus?

Or even Santa, for that matter. I just think it's ironic that a parent would give a shotgun as a gift to what had to be an emotionally disturbed child in celebration of the birth of the Prince of Peace. Jesus didn't give the gift, and I'm pretty sure He'd be just as horrified as I am by the use to which it was put.

[Sultana]

119. It's bad parenting

You didn't catch my lame sarcasm, lol

[BuelahWitch]

52. The father got the son a shotgun so they could go hunting together

I grew up in that area and it's not unusual for a father to buy his son a shotgun for that purpose. Many of the boys I grew up with got them around their 12th birthday and then got a hunting license. Most of the ones I knew also attended gun safety classes. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but in some areas of the country this is a right of passage for a boy.

[leftyladyfrommo]

83. I read that it was a gun for kids and did not have to be registered.

I no nithing about guns but it seems like if it could kill someone it should have to be registered.

[jmg257]

91. Just FYI, most long guns do not need to be registered, except in some places like NYC.

From what I could tell it is a standard 20ga shotgun - maybe a "youth" model with a smaller stock etc., but that is still a "firearm", which requires all the federal purchasing laws to be followed (age - minimum 18yrs, forms, background check etc.). In any rate, it would not need to be registered in Pennsylvania, or most other states.

The legal age of "possession" varies state to state, anywhere between 21 or 18 and 14 or even 12, etc.

[dysfunctional press]

92. by that measure- should baseball bats and knives be registered as well?

:shrug:

[Raskolnik]

94. How would that have affected this tragedy in any way? n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

98. Long guns don't have to be registered in most places

There are shotguns for "kids," but they're the same as a regular shotgun. They're just shorter to make them easier for smaller people. I'm an adult, and it's easier for me to shoot long guns made for kids, because I'm a small adult.

The laws regulating shorter shotguns and rifles are the same as they would be for one with a full-length barrel.

[rocktivity]

138. He shouldn't have had access to that gun unless he was actually GOING hunting

with adult supervision, of course.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[FloridaJudy]

3. This is wrong on so many levels

That I don't even know where to start...

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Kinda takes the concept of sibling rivalry

to new heights. Sounds like something out of a Greek myth.

[Travis the Chimp]

8. Sounds like a real life Stewie.

Remember the episode where he tries to kill Peter's sperm? Not to make light of this, but that's why they say guns kill people.

[LiberalEsto]

24. At least the ancient Greeks lacked guns

If they had possessed firearms, there wouldn't have been many Greeks left to pass down their myths.

[Occam Bandage]

5. How amusing such tragedies are! I do so hope to enjoy watching

political partisans hijack such a life-destroying event to justify their positions on gun ownership, control, and responsibility.

[ogneopasno]

14. Well said.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

120. I agree I hate it when these tragedies are hijacked to justify positions on gun control.

[pnutbutr]

6. the kid killed

her, not the gun. :eyes:

[Travis the Chimp]

10. True, but the average person can't be trusted with guns.

This is just another example. You can't single out the people who shouldn't own them, so we need to just take them away from the ordinary citizenry.

[Occam Bandage]

12. "we need to just take them away from the ordinary citizenry."

Please tell me you are trolling.

[Travis the Chimp]

23. Let me clarify.....

The Police and military need weapons. Joe the Plummer don't. I don't think guns are bad things, I just don't think there are enough responsible people out there.


I'm not a gun nut either way. I choose not to own them, but that's just me.

[Occam Bandage]

26. If you are in favor of illegalization and confiscation of all guns,

then when it comes to guns, you are indeed a "nut." That is the most extreme possible gun control position.

[jmg257]

38. 98.2% of the population will never use a gun maliciously. That isn't enough responsible people?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

122. Not a fan of the Constitution I see.

[slackmaster]

125. I don't need you to tell me what I need or do not need

Your assessment of someone else's needs is not a sound basis for public policy. I support your right to decide what YOU need and do not need.

People have a right to own firearms, or not to as they see fit.

[pnutbutr]

15. uh

yeah :eyes:

[NeedleCast]

21. So I can put you down for a No on the 2nd Amendment

Any other rights of the people you're not happy with?

[Travis the Chimp]

25. Maybe a little soon to jump into this topic.

I don't really care one way or the other. That's just my opinion. I'm not signing any petitions or holding any rallies.

[Occam Bandage]

29. People can get very touchy when it comes to guns.

It's one of the topics you will quickly learn to avoid casual posting on, unless you feel like arguing over the meaning of every word you posted. There's a reason we have a Guns subforum/dungeon; the admins don't trust us to be able to talk reasonably about the subject.

[NeedleCast]

33. Your position is extreme

and this is often a hot topic on this board. Even by gun grabber standards a total ban for civilians is pretty much as extreme as you can get. When you post that opinion, regardless of whether or not you're signing petitions or holding rallies, you're going to get called out to defend it here.

[Travis the Chimp]

37. Thanks for the warning....

That is my position, if it could actually be achieved. I do have enough sense to know that EVERY gun can't be accounted for, though. That's why I don't really feel strongly about it. That is all I'm going to say about that.....

[havocmom]

61. Someone HAS to ask and I have never been known for tact & diplomacy...

but, how do you feel about automobiles? Most people use them responsibly. Some get careless on occasion, a few are habitually reckless with them. More people die from cars than... yada yada yada... (we state it ad nauseum but never get a really decent reply)

You are entitled to your position. And we are entitled to apply some critical thinking to it when it is up on a discussion board. Fact: not everyone lives where guns are flatly a bad thing. Some realities include the wisdom of having firearms and teaching our offspring safe handling there of.

The problem this youngster had is obviously not just that he had a shotgun. Making it about gun control does not address the root problems society keeps sweeping under the gun case.

edited for typo

[cherokeeprogressive]

87. "That's all I'm going to say about that..." Thanks, Forest. n/t

[tanngrisnir3]

22. It's evident that you can't be trusted with posting intelligently.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

99. Oh snap!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[dustbunnie]

43. Many moons ago -

A young woman named Julia woke from her afternoon nap to find that her nephew, Ted Bundy, had positioned knives all around her body. We all know where that story went.

Sometimes these are cases of "the Good Son." Wouldn't really matter if a gun was available or not.

[anonymous171]

45. We should do the same thing with 1st Amendment rights too. nt

[seabeyond]

73. i think the evidence easily and hands down suggest the "average" person IS responsible

with guns, it is the few that are not....

and that doesnt include criminal eliminate cause they arent the average and they will get guns regardless

[Common Sense Party]

89. The average responsible gunowners don't make headlines

and they're really boring topics of discussion on internet message boards.

It's much more interesting to talk about the 2% of irresponsible gun owners.

[seabeyond]

139. exactly and make them out to be all the "average", while you never hear about CAUSE

they are responsible with their guns

[Vickers]

85. What other rights do you feel need curtailing?

:shrug:

Welcome to DU yadda yadda yadda...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

97. Oh for fucks sake, you think the average person is going to go out and murder people?

That's the working of a scary mind right there. Perhaps YOU shouldn't own guns.

[countingbluecars]

9. Why does an 11 year old have access to a gun?

Shouldn't it be locked up and used only with adult supervision. The father should be in jail.

[Jackpine Radical]

34. When I was a kid, everyone I knew had access to guns

and every kid my age knew how to shoot. Most of us were hunting by 12. We also had access to things like chainsaws and axes, and many of us were driving a tractor by then. I carried a jackknife to school every day from at least the age of 7 or 8. The fault is not in the devices--nor really in the kids--but in a society that gives them access to things without training in how to use them. In a case like the shotgun killing here, without having read any details, my bet is that the little killer is a severely pathological child, and ti is totally nuts to give a very disturbed kid access to a gun.

[walkaway]

49. I don't understand

are you advocating children being allowed to carry their knives to school as long as they aren't judged psychopathic?
Or should we be arming children with gun as long as their parents supervise them?

We come from different worlds. I have seen these things in third world countries. These ideas are common in the Middle East and South and Central America.

No one in my family owns a gun and as far as I know no one (except my grandfather who was a police chief) ever has. I am amazed by this whole culture of weapons and violence.

[jmg257]

58. We can allow kids to have guns as long as they are supervised. Violence

need not have anything to do with it. I am glad my son knows about gun safety, the dangers involved, and the respect/responsibility necessary.
That doesn't mean I trust him to show that level all the time (i.e. unsupervised).

I am also glad his older sister (college) now wants to know the basics too.

"should be arming children..." is not the right words; "can allow kids to enjoy and learn about guns and shooting" is much better, and probably much more accurate.

[MessiahRp]

77. This may be true

But I think beyond training there's a level of maturity that most children don't have until they're into their teens. This is why there needs to be a locked gun cabinet that the child can't get into. Leaving a gun laying around after giving it as a present gives the impression of a toy being left around to be played with. It's irresponsible to not keep this gun out of the child's reach regardless if he has or will learn to hunt with it.

Rp

[One_Life_To_Give]

11. Highlihghts the sad state of Mental Health Services

I can't imagine how a kid can get this messed up without any adult realizing the need for professional help.

[ecstatic]

13. I think he's being charged with double murder too

And being tried as an adult.

[countingbluecars]

17. How absurd to charge an 11 year old

as an adult. The kid needs help.

[burythehatchet]

32. I have a 10 y.o. and it boggles my mind. The mental problems this kid had PLUS

being given a shotgun by his father EQUALS something I cannot comprehend.

[pnutbutr]

39. safety and responsibility

Providing a gun to a child to use isn't the problem. It's teaching safety and responsibility as well as the repercussions of misusing a gun. Some don't do this or do not enforce the importance of it onto the children they are allowing to use a gun.

[ecstatic]

41. True, but the question is: What kind of help

At 11 I was beginning the 7th grade. I wasn't the wisest person in the world, but I knew what the consequences of shooting and killing someone were--and it never crossed my mind to do something like that. He is young, he's not an adult and is not mature--but he clearly is a threat to society. So what now?

[countingbluecars]

54. I wish I had an answer.

He definitely needs mental help. But then what? This boy is in the fifth grade. Certainly the adult prison system isn't the answer.

[MessiahRp]

75. 7th grade?

My son is 10 and he's in 4th. He missed the cutoff (b-day is in Sept), otherwise he'd probably be in 5th. By next year he'd be in 6th grade. Did you skip a grade or something?

Rp

[ecstatic]

82. different states have different cut offs but

Never skipped a grade--started 7th grade at 11 but my birthday is in late October so I turned 12 shortly after the semester began.

[dionysus]

71. he blew off the back of a pregnants woman's head point blank with a shotgun. he can't be out on the

streets.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

100. Sociopaths can't be cured

All the help in the world can't help this murderer. I say lock him up, either in a jail or institution.

[AlCzervik]

27. his lawyer is working on getting him charged as a minor, don't think that dog is gonna hunt

based on what i've read which looks like premeditation. Course it's still early and i'm sure we'll be reading much more about this case.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,498384,00.html

updated at link, sorry bout the source.

[PA Democrat]

55. Heard local news coverage this morning. The kid is currently being held in an ADULT prison.

It's a very disturbing story on so many levels. The kid got on the bus and went to school after the shooting. But even the jail's warden and the DA don't feel the kid belongs in an adult prison.

[havocmom]

64. And THAT makes it more and more likely Roe v Wade will get challenged again and again

Yes, losing a fetus in an accident or crime IS a horrible loss. But, legally treating the fetus as a person gives more weight to the ant-choice arguments. It is a slippery slope at best and should be watched closely whenever it is tried.

[walkaway]

16. I just watched one of those big haired twinkies on MSNBC and a talking head..

conclude that it was all about bad video games and teachers not noticing that the kid was upset. Nothing what-so-ever about the father giving a 20 gauge shotgun to an eleven year old for christmas.

You should have heard them. This idiot kept talking about violence on TV being the cause but that it couldn't have anything to do with the Xmas gun because lots of kids live with guns but they don't kill people. And this idiot "news" woman basically agreed with him.

What kind of freak gives his child a gun? And on top of that doesn't lock it up when he does. And why should teachers and guidance counselors have anything to do with this. Doesn't his gun lovin' dad have any responsibility. Not on MSNBC!

[jmg257]

44. Lots of "freaks" give their kids guns, but hopefully not too many allow unsupervised access to it.

Nothing wrong with kids learning and enjoying shooting, or "having" their own gun(s), especially those properly sized and styled.

Of course there is a problem not locking them up for safety's sake.

[walkaway]

57. I consider myself luck to live in an area where it is very difficult for adults to own a gun

I can't imagine anyone in my town receiving a license for a gun for a child. Since these kids are too young to drive I feel better that "Gun Kids" won't be coming to my house.

[jmg257]

63. No one would be able to get a license for a child. There are federal age restrictions for ownership,

possession and etc., at the least.

But that doesn't (and shouldn't) stop parents from "giving" their kids a firearm. Doesn't mean they should, or can, justify letting them have unfettered access to it. Common sense should still prevail, and of course the actual age & maturity level involved should be considered.

I do understand your points.

Different life styles, different choices. What rights are all about! :)

[havocmom]

67. Outta curiosity: what is the murder rate where you live?

Where I live, just about everyone has guns. Just about everyone over 12 has had considerable gun safety training.

Where I live is also very peaceful. Hasn't been a murder here in decades.

[Raskolnik]

86. Are you under the impression that "gun kids" roam the countryside looking for homes to invade?

Because you may be misinformed on that point.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

101. This post is sarcastic, right?

You actually envision gangs of roving "Gun Kids" driving around most of the country?

[ogneopasno]

104. "Gun kid"? What exactly would that be? I'm curious.

I mean, not really, but in a way I am. Because hee, "gun kid."

[Raskolnik]

53. "What kind of freak gives his child a gun?"

My Dad, for one. But he was about as far from a "freak" a human could possibly be, so I'm not sure if you're operating from useful preconceptions.

[walkaway]

62. Are you going to give your kid a gun when he or she is eleven?

I guess in some worlds that is normal. Most people I know would consider it insane. That's why we don't live anywhere near each other I would imagine.

[jmg257]

65. I gave my son a .22 this Christmas. I have a shotgun for him for his BDay (he'll be 12).

And when WE are not actually shooting or cleaning them, they are/will be locked away right next to mine.

Not a big deal really.

Though I actually don't fear him mistreating either of them, and especially not murdering someone, he still doesn't have the experience/maturity to trust 100%; especially when other friends are over, etc. Too easy for him to get carried away, or even once be a bit careless. So sure they are "his", but that don't mean he has free access.

[Raskolnik]

66. I don't know, I don't have a kid yet, and I'll have to see what he/she is like when he/she is 11.

If my kid is interested in that sort of thing and reasonably mature for 11, I don't see the problem with it. Why is it any of your business?

On edit: you may want to consider the fact that the world is far larger than you and your circle of friends. You may not be interested in something, and you may not know anyone who is interested in something, but that doesn't mean that other people don't exist with differing interests.

[Occam Bandage]

74. So long as it is kept in a safe and the child does not have free access, why not?

There's nothing wrong with teaching a child gun safety, responsibility, and upkeep, nor with teaching him how to shoot.

[burythehatchet]

111. My two sons were never even allowed to own toy guns

:rofl:

[Raskolnik]

116. Good for them and good for you. So what? n/t

[burythehatchet]

117. oops, there's no "was I talkin to your sorry ass?" smilie.

:)

[Raskolnik]

118. Actually, you responded to a question that was posed to me.

But the question remains: so what?

I mean, I know you find a pregnant woman being murdered by an 11 year old to be "a fucking riot," but I'm still not auite sure why you think that your post merited an animated smiley face rolling on the floor laughing.

edit to include proper phrasing

[undeterred]

18. Guns

The quick answer to human conflicts. I can see how a child raised in our culture could think that.

[AndyA]

19. Haven't you heard? The right to bear arms in this country trumps

another's right to life.

The big problem all the gun rights folks ignore is that under the current legal status, you have to be very trusting of others. So many have concealed carry permits, and you have to trust that those who do are responsible and even tempered.

Question: Would you trust a complete stranger with the safety and security of your child?

No? But you're willing to trust that same stranger to carry a concealed, loaded weapon and be close enough to you and your family to kill all of you? That's the big issue: you have to trust EVERYONE. Including a great many who you would be scared shitless if you knew they had a loaded gun on their person.

Doesn't make sense to me. :shrug:

[burythehatchet]

28. My personal view on firearms is under fire. (Pun intended)

I've never owned nor even touched a gun in my life. However, knowing what is coming to our towns and cities I see some necessity in having a firearm. Somewhat confused right now.

[pnutbutr]

35. buy one

take a gun safety course, learn about your gun, how to use, load clean etc... Practice with it, know it, become comfortable with it. Hope you don't have to use it but feel good knowing you can safely if the need arises.

[Selatius]

141. If you want a firearm, you really should take a gun safety course if you do purchase one.

Learn how to maintain it and store it properly. This is for your sake and the sake of everyone around you. I fear things will get worse as the economy continues to slide into ruin, and I expect a lot of people will turn to crime to pay the bills or try to anyway.

[pnutbutr]

30. you cannot

legislate trust into society.

[AndyA]

But ignoring it makes the problem go away, right?

:eyes:

[pnutbutr]

36. what problem?

[AndyA]

90. The problem of legislating trust.

Just don't deal with it and everything will be OK, right?

If you can't trust a stranger with your children, you can't trust a stranger with a gun.

[jmg257]

47. No, so why would YOU? Which is why I like to rely on myself 1st for our safety/security. Me I trust.

Others, including cops and state agents I don't know? Not as much.

[AndyA]

106. But you also have to trust everyone else as well. You have to if they're carrying a gun.

A gun is a lethal weapon. You have to trust that others aren't crazy and will pull a gun out and shoot you dead before you know what hit you. Literally.

[jmg257]

110. I do trust that, generally...that I have nothing to fear from the vast majority of gun owners.

For the other 1-2%, and for all those others bent on violence even without guns?

Well, that's why I carry.

[anonymous171]

48. 1st Amendment trumps the right to not be offended by speech.

I'm often offended by what others are saying. I think that they should not have protections under the 1st Amendment.

[Raskolnik]

56. "The right to bear arms in this country trumps another's right to life."

Really? Who is saying that?

[AndyA]

107. Everyone who supports the current gun laws in this country, that's who. n/m

[Raskolnik]

115. Hmmm. That doesn't make a lot of sense, actually.

You are aware that there are currently criminal penalties attached to murder and manslaughter, some of them being quite severe, correct?

[AndyA]

123. Yes, I am aware of that.

Did you have another point?

[Raskolnik]

126. Just trying to figure out why you think that the right to keep arms trumps anyone's right to life.

It's a silly notion at best, and your posts haven't done very much to clarify what you could possibly mean by a statement like that.

[AndyA]

128. What is being done to protect innocent victims of gun violence?

Are there more strict gun laws on the books?

Is there a more intensive investigation before issuing concealed carry permits?

Is weapon training, then continuing training for life mandatory?

No, the conversation is "they're going to take our guns away from us." That tells me what the priority is. How many mass shootings does there need to be? How many more innocent victims and families need to be devastated before the rights of people injured or killed by guns have more precedence in the conversation than gun owners having their guns taken away from them?

Every time the conversation is about gun owners rights, with no mention of the rights of victims, the gun argument wins out.

[Raskolnik]

129. A few points.

Are there more strict gun laws on the books?

What laws do you want? There is that little matter of the Second Amendment to worry about, but it's difficult to know whether you're being reasonable and/or constitutional without you being a little more specific. What gun laws do you think would have prevented the tragedy of the OP?

Is there a more intensive investigation before issuing concealed carry permits?

I'm not aware of a statistically significant amount of crime being comitted by CCW permit holders.

Is weapon training, then continuing training for life mandatory?

I think firearms training for people who choose to own weapons is a wonderful idea. Making that training mandatory and ongoing, however, does tend to butt up against the Constitition.

How many mass shootings does there need to be?

I dont' know, how many? How many mass shootings do there need to be before we change/ignore the Constition?

How many more innocent victims and families need to be devastated before the rights of people injured or killed by guns have more precedence in the conversation than gun owners having their guns taken away from them?

Please see above.

[AndyA]

135. I guess we can just be complacent about it, and do nothing.

So the idiot that goes to the local gun show this weekend and walks out with a rifle can have his right to bear arms. And we can just hope and pray that he doesn't wack out and kill us or someone we love. Because there is no coming back from death, you know.

And that idiot who bought his rifle at the gun show has his rights. And as long as idiots can do this, the right to live that his future victims should have had doesn't mean squat, because by the time anyone does something to take the idiot's gun away from him, the damage has been done.

[Raskolnik]

137. The ball is squarely in your court. What do you want to do?

What gun laws would make you feel better about that "idiot" that goes to the local gun show this weekend?*

*of course, the amount of crime committed with "gun show" firearm purchases is quite small, and even smaller when limited to rifles, but I'm sure you knew that already, since you've obviously given this a lot of thought

[havocmom]

68. Right to bear arms is not the same as right to murder. Your straw-man's pants are on fire

[AndyA]

108. There is no such thing as right to murder.

When an idiot with a gun, who just got dumped by his girlfriend, decides in a fit of rage that your time is over, that's that.

Most people wouldn't have time to react even if they did carry a gun.

[havocmom]

140. What? No right to committ murder? Wha....

No kidding. :duh:

And having a gun is not the same as murdering with it, which was the point I was making. Some rabid gun grabbers seem to have trouble seeing the difference between the 2nd and murdering people.

[tangent90]

95. I'm a lot more inclined to trust armed people who have had some training and background checks

than gang bangers who stole their guns and conduct unannounced visits, AKA home invasions.

[AndyA]

109. Yet how many murders occur every year by people with registered guns?

It's not just the gang bangers who are doing the shooting, obviously.

And even with proper and thorough gun training, if a person doesn't have the temperament to possess a gun, they shouldn't be able to. And a lot of people aren't responsible and/or calm enough to have guns.

[jmg257]

113. Not sure. How many?

Which is not saying your points are inaccurate. There are indeed many people who should not be able to possess guns.

[tangent90]

114. Not sure what you mean by 'registered.' There is no such thing where I live.

And yes there are some who have no business with guns...there are a lot of people who should not drive or have children. Last week a guy
down the road zoomed out of his driveway and ran over a 6 year old kid...killed him. One could argue the guy doesn't have the temperament to
own or operate a five thousand pound automobile, by your own logic at least.

I'm pretty sure someone who conducts a home invasion (way too common these days) is be most any definition a gang banger. How do you propose to ensure none of them have firearms?

[AndyA]

127. I don't propose to have all the answers.

I do know that the "let anyone who wants one have a gun" theory doesn't seem to be working out too well. Maybe we should just give everyone guns. They get one when they turn 18 or something. Then everyone would have them, wouldn't that be fun? "See the daily shoot out at the OK Corral on Main Street, USA!"

I do know that one innocent life taken by someone with a gun is one too many, and the concern seems to be more for making sure people can bear arms if they want to, and it's just too bad about those who get killed, it was the person who did it, not the gun. What bullshit.

[tangent90]

131. Well at the risk of being condescending, I'll just point out that guns don't kill people without

human input, and people kill other people every day without guns.

[AndyA]

133. People are usually responsible for most things, when you get right down to it.

Sure, give them something lethal, and chances are they're going to use it. It's still not an excuse for allowing irresponsible people to carry a gun, and no, not everyone should be able to do so.

And the systems we have in place right now to guard us don't seem to work very well. We need a new direction.

[Raskolnik]

134. "give them something lethal, and chances are they're going to use it"

That is just demonstrably false, given that the overwhelmingly vast majority of firearms are never used to harm another human being.

[tangent90]

136. Rats, I keep forgetting about the epidemic of murders with drain cleaner.

Death by Drano.

[AlCzervik]

20. hilarious right, popcorn worthy, yes?

really?

[burythehatchet]

31. Absoltely. Idicoracy was a very funny movie. We're nearly there and it is a fucking riot.

[Raskolnik]

60. I'm sure the dead lady agrees. n/t

[burythehatchet]

69. I don't think she's in a position to agree with very much right now.

[Raskolnik]

78. Is that why it's so hilarious and popcorn-worthy?

I just want to make sure I understand what you find so hilarious about a situation like this.

[burythehatchet]

79. right now, its you.

[Raskolnik]

84. A non-answer.

If you're going to be a ghoul, at least have the courage of your convictions and refrain from running away from your own posts.

[acmavm]

40. This is going to be a fiasco. I don't know what they need to do with

this horrid kid. But this remark, it just blew me away...

<snip>

"I'll bet the boy had some big feelings he didn't know what to do with,"

<snip>

I mean, as long as the poor kid was confused I guess he shouldn't be in too much trouble, right?

:sarcasm:

[ecstatic]

42. Also, I think we're going to see more and more of this if we don't clean up TV

and movies and video games. The constant violence and murder in the media is sending mixed signals to young kids.

[havocmom]

76. Good mental health care resources would go a long way too.

It isn't just about TV.

How many of us have seen kids growing up without dependably wise and loving guidance? How many teachers are too overworked to see subtle hints of trouble? How many parents are too busy or too self-involved to really be GOOD parents? How many local budgets do not seem to cover helping with counseling resources?

Easy to blame it on guns or TV. Real roots are probably more involved. Again, the words of Pogo might apply: We have met the enemy, and it is us.

Our society values the less important and ignores the essential too damned often. Quick fixes and band-aids on knee jerk issues just don't solve much.

[BuelahWitch]

96. Yes that's what it comes down to

The unofficial story is that the little boy was jealous because the baby she was carrying was a boy. He was used to being the only boy and wanted it to remain that way. I got this info from an old school mate who works with the victim's cousin. Incidentally, the victim also went in with the Dad to buy him the gun, and it was so that he could start hunting when he was 12.

[BuelahWitch]

46. New Castle News website said her 4 yr old daughter found her

And her 7 year old was a witness to the murder. Those poor little girls! :cry:

[burythehatchet]

50. oh man, I did not know about that. shit.

[BuelahWitch]

51. I grew up in that area and went to search out NCN

Which has to have the shittiest website ever. But apparently the boy shot her while she lay in bed before he went to school. The little girl witnessed, but was too afraid to do anything. The two of them went off to school and awhile later the 4 year old came to get her up. The smallest girl called out to some men working construction nearby that her mother was dead and they called 911.
http://www.ncnewsonline.com/

[Raskolnik]

59. Man, that's horrible.

But at least you're looking forward to the knee-jerk reaction that things like this always bring.

[GaYellowDawg]

70. Guns don't kill people. 11 year olds kill people. nfm

nfm

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. "Only criminals will have guns..." Uh-huh.

[Raskolnik]

80. Who are you quoting? n/t

[TWiley]

121. Gun ownersip and use has created plenty of criminals.

Ordinary citizens were not criminals, and presto ..... now they are because they shoot someone.

[tangent90]

132. Banks have created many criminals too.

First time robbers, for instance. How coincidental is it that nobody is a criminal until he commits a crime? You should be running the FBI!

[bertman]

81. My grandfather gave me a 12 gauge shotgun when I was twelve. I had already been

hunting with that same shotgun at least ten times before he gave it to me. I was a city kid lucky enough to have a grandfather who owned a small farm. I and most of my friends hunted, fished, camped, worked outdoors as often as the adults would allow.

Yep, we went hunting alone or in pairs, unsupervised, with shotguns and rifles and none of us ever shot another human being--at least until I and some of my buddies went in the military during the Vietnam era.

Most of the boys I knew and l carried pocket knives because they were useful for whittling sticks and doing cool things that you use knives for. No one ever stabbed anyone else with one that I know of. Not even the guys who dressed in black leather jackets, slicked back their hair like Elvis, and tried to be badasses like Marlon Brando and James Dean.

Of course, all this happened in the 50's, 60's and 70's--before Americans learned to be fearful of everything. Before Americans came to blame everything on someone else and accept no responsibility for their own fuckups. Before kids took shotguns to school and killed anyone they didn't like.

I have no idea where we went wrong but we did go wrong somewhere along the line. Is it because we have lost our sense of right and wrong? Have we been brainwashed from YEARS of sitting in front of the blinking blue screen that spews out almost non-stop visions of anger, angst, and mayhem? Is it because we don't go to church? Or because we go to church too much?

Something is wrong. But I doubt that outlawing guns is going to help. Because that often-cited phrase "when guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns" is true.

And then there's the other side of the coin. What do you do when your reich-wing neighbor comes to take you in to protective custody at the Rush Limbaugh Institute for the Internment of Liberals and Other Traitors? Do you ask him to sit down at the kitchen table and discuss his feelings that you are a Commie Terrorist living in America? Or do you meekly surrender your family and your life to the same nutcases who call our President a Muslim Terrorist?

The Founders of our nation learned that Tyrants do not yield to reason and discussion and they do not care about hearing both sides of the story. All they care about is controlling YOU. That's why the Founders tried to guarantee that the citizens would not be helpless unarmed sheep when the Tyrants decided they would once again take over.

[tangent90]

103. Something odd I've noticed from lurking here, many posters hate the "government" but want only them

to have the right to arms. Can you explain that?

[TWiley]

124. The republicans, and libertarians generally "hate government"

Democrats are generally in favor of government action. You are asking the question of yourself and your own kind

[tangent90]

130. I was actually referring to government as it was during the Bush administration.

There have been, I've noticed, a lot of posters here who didn't trust them to do anything right - and I agree. But they'll be in charge again someday whether we like it or not. We're faced with undoing all the crap they foisted on us now from our perspective but about half the country thinks otherwise. I'm not comfortable with the notion that only cops and soldiers should have firearms, that's a recipe for dictatorship.

[bertman]

142. You're absolutely right, tangent90. The naivete is mind-boggling. Or should I say, ignorance?

[Forkboy]

88. Like how you use this to get some chuckles. Stay classy.

:thumbsup: