Let me re-frame the Drug Debate in different terms

[Taverner]

Let's just leave Marijuana out of the equation for the moment. Most here are rational enough to know its a safe (yes, I said safe) and perhaps even healthy drug, that should not be illegal.

But let's move onto the 'baddies': Opiates (Heroin, Opium, Oxy/Hydrocodone, etc.), Cocaine (including Crack) and Methamphetamine.

Let's assume the worst about these drugs, that they are addictive, habit forming and unhealthy to the point of death.

OK - now my question is, how do criminal penalties for using such drugs do any good?

How does taking a non-violent offender, and putting him in jail with a bunch of violent offenders, sometimes for LIFE (see Mandatory Minimums), do the user or society any good?

How does it help our communities?

I can't think of a single argument where it does. Rehab? Well that's not jail, and that's not where you go if you get caught (unless you're rich.)

Jail? If they survive the incarceration (many don't - remember these guys are non-violent offenders) many times, with their lives destroyed, they go into crime. Quite simply, it is the only path available to them.

So again, how does incarceration do any good for the user or society?

[47of74]

1. It's a way to oppress people

Not for one freaking minute is it actually about the safety of people. It is all about oppressing people, and giving law enforcement departments everywhere permission to indulge in their fascist urges.

[Warpy]

2. The cornerstone of the original Drug War from Nixon

was detox and rehabilitation. It was an attempt to decrease the market for drugs by treating addicts.

Carter came along full of Baptist fervor and made it punitive, one of the worst ideas of his administration.

Now it's been thoroughly militarized around the world.

The Drug War is worse than Prohibition ever thought of being. Because of the Drug War, Mexico is in grave danger of collapsing. The government has lost control of several states.

I want to end the drug war. I want everything legalized across the board, just sign for it at a pharmacy, cheap and generic. That's the only way to break the power of international drug gangs and they're a lot more dangerous than drugs ever were.

Most people will not use drugs unless they need them. The few unlucky people whose brain chemistry causes them to fall in love with one or a combination of substances need rehab, something that can be funded by a moderate tax on the drugs.

A war against sin is inconsistent with a country that prides itself on being free. The moralists are wrong. The only thing outlawing sin ever does is make sin even more attractive.

[ixion]

3. criminal prosecution doesn't solve the problem, only destroys the society

sure, there are people who are going to cause trouble, but that pales in comparison to the millions of people who have had their lives ruined, families split up, children taken away or have been killed in this so-called 'war' on drugs.

People with addiction problems need treatment, not jail time. And people who can use drugs responsibly should not fear incarceration for that lifestyle choice.

Just my two cents.

[Javaman]

4. well, IMO...

those who knowingly sell and distribute illegal drugs should be in prison. Nothing difference than someone acting as a fence for stolen items.

Rather than use the money for the "war on drugs" that money should be better spent on rehab clinics.

drug users should be sent to rehab. Studies have shown that it does work.

That said, legalizing drugs, all drugs, opens the world up to a quit sudden "surge" of cases that need to be treated. However, like I said above, if the money from the war on drugs were used for rehab, then real treatment can occur.

the drugs would be controlled by the US Government and for the users that can't quite kick the habit, a managed distribution system would be set up. aka methadone like system.

The bottom line is this: the US government learned nothing at all from the prohibition of alcohol.

[Taverner]

5. Thing is any user who has more than one "serving" gets tried for selling

Its one of the wonderful enhancements Reagan did with the War on Drugs :eyes:

They will always try to nail you for selling, hoping you'll plea bargain.

[Javaman]

6. Good point.

Well, like I said if it were government controlled, the government would the the seller. and anyone selling on the side, would face prison. Unless of course you can get little "home brewing" licenses like they do with beer. LOL

Pot, to me is such a none issue. Trying to make a plant illegal is so absurd. Especially, a useful plant.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

7. As I understand it, it's getting at suppliers by quelling demand.

Here's the theory - People are a lot less likely to buy drugs if they know they know they're going to go to jail for it. As such, that decreases the demand for the drugs on the street, and as such, creates less of a market for people peddling these drugs.

At least I think that's the theory. Any which way you put it, though, it's all rubbish.

[Oregone]

10. The problem is that it encourages the black market and organized crime,

which can provide an unlimited supply to entire neighborhoods (as well as stimulate demand through samples/pressure/perpetual poverty).

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. Well, yeah, that's where the whole concept of the drug war goes to shit. (nt)

[Fovea]

8. It harms society

but it helps the ruling class by establishing that certain classes have moral hazards, and others do not.

In their hubris, they believe that they will always establish what is and is not moral.
This next couple of years are not going to be kind to them.

[Oregone]

9. I often think we should "socialize" the production of all these drugs,

And distribute them at government depots in limited quantities (non-overdosing quantities) to users, at a decent premium.

The government drug centers would register who bought what and when, so they could not get more at an alternative depot. It limits the public supply, per user, to reduce overdosing potential (and black market reselling).

Only those who have acquired a usage license (via education classes on the drug, its use, effects, and consequences) should be able to buy a particular drug. So all users would be informed and consenting adults.

The government could engage in mass production, to produce low-cost, pure substances. There would be much profit to be made.

Small dealers would be put out of business because the government substances are more safe (pure) and much more affordable. There would be no reason to have a black market.

Drug related crimes (to obtain drugs or secure control of sales in a region would decline instantly). Drug related deaths would decline due to the education and licensing classes, and more pure substances with less contaminants. Prisons would be free of taking on drug related offenses and violent crimes related to drug cartels. The government could make a fortune off the depots.

Of course, this should go hand in hand with providing addiction treatment.