Can we agree on this one: "No more McMansions"!

[PM Martin]

Is there really any need for 3500-4000 sqft homes for a family of 4?
Was not the size of a new home built in the mid 60's 2200 sqft?
Is that not enough space. You also had an acre of land to go along with that home.
Another note: the amount of land has decreased as these new "McMansions" had become larger.
The concept of Suburbia was to get away from the city and have land and "freedom" and all that other stuff that
defined the American "dream".
Just how much of that "dream" do you need? A four car garage? A media room? 5 Bedrooms?
A chandelier hanging above your entry way as a means of showing off you new found "wealth"?
What is wrong with living near cities and within?
What is wrong with a Town home? A high rise condo? An Apartment?


What do you think? :shrug:

EDIT: If you agree with me, please give this post a recommendation!

[Skittles]

1. I agree

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

2. family of four... hah!

My girlfriend lives alone in one, 3800 square feet!

[PM Martin]

4. Does she enjoy all of that space?

Does it feel lonely at times?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

12. I will never understand what makes her tick

but yes, she really does seem to like the space.

[mainer]

119. Wow, she doesn't prefer to live in a teeny tiny closet?

Go figure.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. Sorry, but I do not agree...

My husband and I built a home for ourselves, just the two of us, at about 4200 sq. feet. We are within the zoning requirements for our town, and we love our home.

It is an architect-designed home, and one of the nicest homes on our street.

Home sizes are very personal.

My two cents...

YMMV...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

38. That's huge

I'd love to have a big house, but if I did, I'd make it as green as possible like on "Living with Ed."

[harun]

72. I would agree if the rule only affected those financing the homes. If the

people have the outright cash to build something big like that, then allow it.

[RiverStone]

106. Size is relative - 4,200 sq. ft. seems really big for 2 people

...from my perspective.

As a divorced dad, my 2 kiddos and I did OK in a 1,200 sq. ft. (small) 3 bedroom. I think about conserving the materials and energy costs that go into what we live in; live as small as possible while still be comfortable. Of course, compared your average family in Calcutta - my home is a HUGE mansion. My wish is be it big or small, that we all focus on building with a sensitivity towards making it as green and energy efficient as possible.

So like I said, it's all relative.

Glad your happy!

Our house may be small, but we live where we can see the stars at night surrounded by woods (here in rural Washington). It's quiet --- we are happy too.

[cliffordu]

113. My wife and I and our five cats live in 272 sq feet. *

Can I have a hundred or so of yours??




*I live in an airstream. I also have an 8X10' shed.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

141. I don't know how you do that...

My study alone is 440 sq. feet...and I really use it, too...

I have a lot of books, and they take a lot of room.

[Ignis]

152. Probably because they have to.

Not everyone has the wealth to live in a McMansion. That doesn't mean we don't like elbow room, just as people who are forced to live on ramen don't necessarily abhor filet mignon.

We'll try to eat cake, though.

:eyes:

[cliffordu]

163. Yep, we have to....

I got sick and we lost our home and the autos and the whole fucking pie.

And after the initial shock wore off it became obvious to me I needed to stop keeping up with what the television tells me I need to be happy.


I live like a king now....I have a woodstove and quail breeding in the brush in the summertime.....

Bobcats and pumas in the summer and five acres of woods between me and the main road.

My wife and I ride our bikes everywhere.....It's five miles on a wooded bike path to town.

I learned to do without the toys and the bangles and the bright and shiny objects the multinationals keep us asleep with and found out just how beautiful life outside the middle class can be.

Trust me when I quote Tyler Durden and say that the things you own end up owning you.

[Vanje]

185. Where do you keep .......

your grand piano?

[Vanje]

186. How many books can you read at one time?

I have a stack of 10 -14 going at any one time.

[Vanje]

183. I'd rather live in an airstream than a giant beige mansion.

Airstreams are COOOL!
Its cheaper to heat.
I wouldnt need a maid, a gardener, servants.

I wouldnt have a big vulgar house if you forced me.
I'm contented "trailer trash."

[jmowreader]

5. If I had the means, I would build a 5000sf home...

however, 3000sf of it would be the garage in which I would fix up old beaters I bought off Craigslist so I could sell them to people who needed reliable transportation but didn't have very much money.

[PM Martin]

10. That works nicely though.

An out of home business. It's a better use of space than letting it sit there.

[BlooInBloo]

6. (shrug) Unless suitably tasteless people with enough money want one...

I certainly don't intend to tell people what to buy and what not to buy.

I will tell them if there choice is utterly tasteless, however.

[ProfessorGAC]

64. A Reasonable Point Of View, Bloo

I don't have the big home, and i'm in no position to tell anyone else what kind of house they should have. But, if it's ugly, we can tell them we think it's ugly.

I like it.
GAC

[wickerwoman]

98. They don't really seem to though.

Developers tore down the woodlot behind my parents house where I used to play when I was a kid (and which the neighborhood tried to have classified as a bird sanctuary for an endangered species.) They built fifteen of those butt-ugly houses nose to nose with each other with a tiny "nature strip" for the birds which is really just two concrete rimmed pits where kids throw their garbage. And only two of them have ever been occupied in the past five years.

So they destroyed a community resource (it was like having a park in the back yard), a bird sanctuary and possibly an endangered species to build thirteen empty houses that someone, somewhere was supposed to want to buy.

I'm betting it was some kind of tax write-off. Plus they almost certainly used illegal immigrants to build them.

It should be possible to better regulate where these things are built and how many of them are how close together.

[BlooInBloo]

172. A fair-ish point. I'm all for zoning regs, putting constraints on what can be where...

But no matter what the regs are, if someone is suitably tasteless, and suitably wealthy, the equivalent of mcmansions will still pop up. But I'm fine with reasonable-ish regs.

[flvegan]

7. I'd rather limit the number of homes allowed per acre or hectare.

I don't really have a problem with folks wanting a bigger home, but the impact of the number of folks/homes in a limited area is a concern. I'd love to have a bigger house with a 4 car garage (filled with choice automobiles of both American and Italian marque) and a media room. No idea when I'd be able to afford such a thing, especially since I'd insist on it being as eco-friendly as possible. But, if I could afford it, I'd like a big home. I wouldn't want to limit folks in their affordable choices in housing.

[uppityperson]

158. Me too. If someone wants to build big, they have the right. I like limitations on # of homes/area

They did a county wide thing here several yrs back, what areas are 1 per 5 acres, per 10, closer, etc. I'd like to have more limitations in non-rural areas also. I think they do it by sewage/septic amounts?

I don't want to limit people in the size of their houses though they would be assessed at higher rates, pay more taxes if larger/more expensive.

[flvegan]

169. Exactly. If someone wants to have a 4k sf house on an acre or two

I'd like that much better than cramming 5 families onto that same acre or 10 onto that same two acres.

[Double T]

8. American's can no longer have it all; specially their particleboard..........

and vinyl clad mc mansions.

[arcadian]

9. The "it's their money they can do with it what they want" crowd will be here shortly.

I agree with you by the way.

[PM Martin]

11. I like your signature line picture!

[arcadian]

22. Damn, a bunch of them beat me to the post.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. Isn't it?

[marksmithfield]

68. Dave you seem to have your head

screwed on right around here. Just sayin'

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

116. Today anyway.

[HughBeaumont]

59. Just like they (or rather, HE) shat up my thread a year ago on this subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3187335

[Retired AF Dem]

74. Here I'am

I have never had the right on telling people on how they should spend their money. What gives you the right?

[tangent90]

89. When you start supporting me, you can dictate how I spend your gift.

:D

[pretty]

102. And rightly so. Next you'll be telling me what type of car

to drive. It's none of your business.

[Matariki]

103. But it looks like the "smug, judgmental, self-righteous" crowd got here first

;-)

[dysfunctional press]

13. i don't agree at all.

people are entitled to whatever home they want and can afford to buy/build within the zoning laws.

[PM Martin]

15. Didn't the McMansion fad cause the current housing bubble though.

People were getting mortgages they could never afford to by absurdly large homes that were way outside their budget.
The average middle class American surely could never afford a brand new (more expensive) 4000 sqft+ home.

[readmoreoften]

18. No, hedge funds and toxic speculation caused the housing crisis.

[AlCzervik]

20. here it's a total mix, in California you don't have to a home that big to pay a lot.

[PM Martin]

29. Understood.

[glinda]

42. Banks & greedy Developers+overbuilding=empty houses and

higher taxes for our home and our neighborhood. Sucks. There are two recently built humungo homes up the road that have been for sale for two years and speculators nearly leveled a forest next to the River that sits empt also as they thought homes would be built on them. Ruined the bird habitat. Our house and those of our neighbors look out of place.

[dysfunctional press]

46. if there are only two of them- wouldn't THEY be the houses that look out of place...?

:shrug:

[glinda]

154. True but they dwarf the other homes by size. And there are two more that went up.

[dysfunctional press]

45. not at all.

for one thing- a house doesn't have to be huge to be too expensive for a buyer, and a huge house doesn't have to be outrageously expensive.

[paulsby]

51. yes, but

that's not the issue raised.

a mcmansion is fine IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT.

imo (and that's my opinion), nobody should buy a house without AT LEAST 20% down, wherein the mortgage payment is not greater than 40% of their income, and should have a cash cushion built up as well (in case they lose their source of income).

just because some people irresponsibly bought mcmansions doesn't mean they are the problem. there are plenty of peopel who screwed up by buying insanely priced (out of their range) condos and townhomes too). after all, location location location can bump up prices too.

i agree that a big part of the problem is people wanting to live above their means.

i'd rather be cash, investment AND house rich, than very house rich with nothin' on the side.

dats me.

[Thothmes]

167. In addition, I might add that

the original lender must hold the mortgage for 1/3 of the life of the loan, before it can be sold. that rule alone would probably spared us the mess we are in now.

[ravenna_windream]

14. well

for myself personally, if I had that kind of dough, I'd be perfectly content in a medium sized home that's enough for my husband and I, maybe with an extra room or two for guests but nothing colossal. Some people do it to play the keeping up with the Jones' game (peggy no offense to you, you don't seem to be this type) and to compete and see who has the best whatever - home, car, etc... I know that not everyone with large home is this way but unfortunately I do have a few family members who do this just to feel superior to alot of people to make up for personal insecurities...sigh...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

33. No worries! I am not offended...

We were not keeping up with anybody when we designed and built our home. We had never had enough space, and this time, we were determined to do it right, lol...

We do have a nice guest room, BTW...

[wryter2000]

85. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[pipi_k]

187. That's why we moved...

Our other house was too big for two people and a couple of dogs. Four bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, huge garage, etc.

So we came out to the woods and got a smaller house (one bedroom, one bath) and lived in it until we added another bedroom and bath and a sunporch. We doubled the size from 800 to 1600 sq. ft., but it's still nowhere near as large as our previous home, and it's just right for us.

There's a nice finished basement area beneath the new bedroom addition for gym equipment and we had a hot tub down there until we had to get rid of it because of Mr Pip's lung problems.

We have a little over 8 acres of land to go with it...one garden pond and a larger natural pond, lots of blueberry bushes, and plenty of wildlife wandering through the yard all year long.

Also, while other people are struggling to heat their larger homes, our small home is very well insulated, and we spend approximately $200 per month to heat it (we have two pellet stoves).

It's not a mansion, but it's our Paradise.... :)

[readmoreoften]

16. I think the economy's already taking care of that.

[lonestarnot]

17. Not unless they are going to house thousands of homeless people.

:)

[Gregorian]

19. Don't hate me. But this is what I'm building right now.

2000 square feet on 100 acres. But it IS recyclable. All steel. I'm sorry, because of all people I have been the most distressed about new houses. I bought a piece of land, and there's no way I could sell it now. So I'm here. And my dream is going up. I know, I'm just tooting my own horn here. Hey, I've got to show it off to someone. :)

By the way, I think the point of this entire thread is global warming. Although it isn't mentioned. Think about it. All of these people with their huge homes, and all of that material. Even though I chose steel, it's all of the peripherals like concrete that are the carbon emission loads. It's all driven by population.

[PM Martin]

24. Nice! Modern but not tacky!

How much did you pay per acre?

Mendocino is a beautiful area.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2amdx8q3y0Y
Teeny Bopper, my teenage lover
I caught your waves last night
It sent my mind to wonderin'.
You're such a groove
Please don't move
Please stay in my love house by the river.
Fast talkin' guys with strange red eyes
Have put things in your head
And started your mind to wonderin'
I love you so, please don't go
Please stay here with me in Mendocino.
Mendocino, Mendocino,
Where life's such a groove
You blow your mind in the morning.
We used to walk through the park,
Make love along the way in Mendocino.
(Ah, play it, Augie! Yeah!)
Like I told you, can you dig it?
If you wanna groove, I'll be glad to have you.
'Cause I love you so, please don't go,
Please stay here with me in Mendocino,
Mendocino, Mendocino
Where life's such a groove,
You blow your mind in the morning
We used to walk through the park,
Make love along the way in Mendocino
Mendocino, Mendocino, Mendocino

[Gregorian]

31. Don't ask.

About ten grand. I forked out most of my life savings on it, because I didn't care about money. I just wanted beauty. Which I guess translates to money. Ouch. Ocean view. Not easy to find.

Yes, that song. Love that organ. Catchy tune.

[AngryAmish]

126. So your arguments are aesthetic, not resource based?

puke

[csziggy]

28. Nice - what's the floor plan like?

We designed a 2100 sq. ft. house with everything we needed on one floor. But a one bedroom house would never sell if we ever had to so we added two bedrooms and a bath upstairs that added another 600 sq. ft.

Rather than build a recyclable house, we built to last - ICF (insulated concrete form) walls, metal roof, locally harvested and milled pine and tile floors, and hardie board siding. This house should last us until we die, then be ready for someone to enjoy it for a lot of years after we are gone!

Edited to add - Our house is on our 60 acre farm. We've already lived here 30 years in a disposable house (mobile home) but got tired of worrying about making it through the next hurricane.

[Gregorian]

35. I started out with the ICF idea, but went steel.

It's a pretty rare animal.

And yes, this rv living WITHOUT POWER FOR A YEAR is getting old.

I'm working on finalizing the design right now. But this appears to be it.

[csziggy]

43. Nice floorplan. Swap the laundry and bath on the wing on the right

So if the laundry is running at night the sound will not disturb whoever uses that bedroom. Your floorplan is a lot like the house I grew up in - major living areas in a big block with bedrooms in wings on either side of a courtyard. We had windows on all three sides for air flow - Florida pre-AC needed that!

For the new house we went with the ICF since we're in a hurricane area. And I worry about rust being here in the SE with lots of wet periods. The other part is the ICF is great insulation and thermal mass. This house at 2700+ sq. ft. uses less energy than the old mobile home that was 1680 sq. ft even though we had improved the insulation for that house.

[MindPilot]

110. 100 acres!!11! No one ha a right to that much land!!1!!

You had better be using that land to grow crops to feed the children and allowing the homeless to create a tent city. Land "ownership" is a concept used to opress the poor!! You are probably a rich banker or CEO and should be shot.

Just in case it is necessary, that is :sarcasm:

[Gregorian]

115. Aim high.

I'll admit that there must be truth to what you have said. But the real world is flawed. And I'll also admit that when this property came on the market in 2002 I was so frustrated. I figured some super wealthy person would buy it. I'll admit it wasn't cheap, but by today's standards I got it for a steal. The owner was heavily in debt, and I just happened along. I'll also admit that it's not really perfect. I'll also admit that happiness has nothing to do with money or possessions.

Argh! It's hard to laugh sometimes. And I could write a book on all of this stuff.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. 4000 sq ft on 30 acres sounds about right for my wife and I and the dogs of course.

To each their own though.

David

[PM Martin]

26. Are you able to afford the payments?

Are you able to afford the upkeep?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. I don't see why not.

My wife and I have very stable jobs. She is a Doctor, neither of us are at risk for losing or jobs and even mine pays quite well. The main thing we need the property and the space for are all the rescue dogs. Our current 2200 sq ft on 1 acre just doesn't cut it.

David

[PM Martin]

36. Income is important.

Unlike most with these types of homes, you can afford the payments.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. The mortgage default rate is still only around 10% nationwide.

Most people are making their payments, whether on McMansion's or starter homes.

David

[CaliforniaPeggy]

25. And allow me to comment on townhomes, or condos.

We lived in a 3 story townhome for seven years. Now, they aren't all designed the way ours was.

Three stories. Not one of the rooms was adequately big enough for our parlor grand piano, which my husband plays every day. Not one.

It's a lot of stairs. Not so much fun as you get older, which we are...

We got exactly what we wanted in our custom home, and we use every room.

And BTW, we do live in an urban environment.

[Roadless]

48. Problem isn't big houses, it's *where* they are being built

It's really disturbing. Instead of repairing and reinvigorating already developed areas, we move our stuff ten miles down the road to the just-sold farmland and the new bright shiny strip malls. The amount of dead malls in the Chicago suburbs is staggering. We can't just keep growing and growing and chewing up open space. It's not sustainable.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

49. Ah, I understand.

And indeed you are right. This is happening in LA too...

The house that my husband and I built is not in an area like those...

We are in an area where there are already lots of homes, and no farmland has been destroyed to build on.

[wryter2000]

87. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

94. I didn't realize 4200 sq ft homes were necessary for pianos

[CaliforniaPeggy]

145. You know better than that.

Of course it isn't.

We needed a room with the proper acoustics for the piano, and our architect delivered.

:eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

148. My dear CaliforniaPeggy, that is interesting

I never even thought about the accoustics. My mom has a piano, but she just keeps it down in the rec room.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

149. Architects are paid to think of things like that...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

151. Yeah, my mom's house is really big, but it was just a regular contractor that did the additions

They have a lot of people staying with them on and off, though, so they need a big house.

[Vanje]

184. You must be quite wealthy

or deeply deeply in debt.


I live in a small hovel,I can barely afford to maintain but its all mine! Free and clear.

[stillcool]

27. Around these parts...

some of the biggest homes are historical landmarks.

[Mari333]

30. whatever floats your boat

I sold a huge old farmhouse I lived in , in the country..the heating bills for just myself would have been ridiculous..downsized to a little house in town . dont need anymore then that. i like being simple. its amazing how little one needs to live if you really look at the absolute necessities.
mcmansions are half built around here, or in foreclosure. the developers went wild, and ruined a lot of the coastline with those cheap monoliths..faux homes in faux gated subdivisions now mostly up for sale and none of them selling.
so there is a moratorium now on them. i wont miss the uggliness one bit. but if people want them and can afford them, who am i to say how they should live. i am just glad they are not surviving here.

[misanthrope]

34. My first beef about the McMansions I see is aesthetic in nature...

...Most of them are just plain ugly, architecturally shoddy looking. Proportion, style, every element is unpleasing to me.

Something went astray in our development of modern architecture. Things looked to be on a good track a few decades back and then it just ceased to be creative and artistic. Modernism tried to show us that you don't need a lot of money to create beauty but we never embraced that for some reason.

[ipfilter]

71. I hate McMansions because they

seem to randomly use architectural elements. Lets put a gable here, a hip there, some Victorian in the corner, and some Traditional right here in the middle. It's as if nobody could decide on Gregorian, or Traditional, or Tudor, or whatever, so the elements were just randomly thrown at a big ranch box. Oh, and it wouldn't be a McMansion without some spires on the roof.

[MattBaggins]

77. Two reasons for that

1. Idiots that design their own houses and won't listen to an Architect or Engineer.

2. They are called McMansions for a reason. They make these craptastic attempts to blend a bit of everything together hoping they can develop some sort of generic look that will appeal to everyone. They end up making eye sores.

[MattBaggins]

76. Hence "McMansion"

People just want size size size and the 50k gallon whirlpool in the master bedroom. They skimped on the windows and outside finishing detail to get the room with the home theater.

Ugly ass houses with the front done in fake brick and cheap ass vinyl that cracks after a few years, every where else. Do these people think we don't see the side of their houses as we drive by?

[misanthrope]

182. It kills me...

...I'd rather live in a well designed and attractive small place than some hodge-podge monstrosity.

[CreekDog]

39. That's a good size if you live with your extended family

many people in my area have three generations in one house.

kids, parents, grandparents and have lots of family gatherings.

i'm just south of San Francisco. i don't think we should ban 3500-4000sf homes on that basis alone.

furthermore, i don't think we should have the government deciding how large a person's home can be based on their family size.

if you want to tax it more heavily, fine, if you want to require it to be built as green as possible, fine. but a ban? no.

[PM Martin]

40. I am not for a ban of any kind.

But something needs to be done to prevent these massive homes that are not really affordable for too many from being built.
I do see the value of the existing ones falling faster than the rest of the market.

[paulsby]

52. in EVERY correction/crash

after a bubble, the most overvalued assets fall the most in price.

that's how it's supposed to work.

and that's why people who don't buy value, who overextend, who overleverage, and who buy when a bull market is showing its age can get crushed.

i waited a while for the seattle area housing market to get reasonable. i would NOT buy anything in the last 2 years, but now it's looking good.

and the "mcmansion" i am closing on is my decision. why should others here tell me how i should live?

[MattBaggins]

79. No one is suggesting that

But if you buy one of those ugly Barden Homes, particle board and super glue, oversized dog houses, you really shouldn't get too defensive if folks laugh at you.

[paulsby]

142. it's pretty nice

it's got a fair amount of (real) brick, a nice new metal roof (cedar roof in seattle is the dumbest thing EVAH), a halfbasketball court, 1/2 an acre in maple valley, and nice hardwood floors and new carpet.

it also does not have the trendiest thing ever - slab granite countertops! i swear to god 10 yrs from now people are going to look back at this slab granite craze and go wtf ?

and it has real fireplaces with an insert that helps store the heat. i HATE gas fireplaces. fake fires.

the kitchen is not really up to what i want. i'm a total foodie and dig cooking, but you can';t get everything ya want

[PM Martin]

41. kick

[Missy Vixen]

44. Nice of you to decide how others should live

>What is wrong with a Town home? A high rise condo? An Apartment?

We had a townhome for five years. Previous to that, we lived in apartments.

We bought a detached house when the next-door (connecting wall) neighbor's son started dealing. Before that happened, we discovered that the city we lived in had given a sweetheart deal to the developer. He was the mayor's best pal. The fire wall was a "new design" that did not go up to the actual ceiling. There was a gap. Since all three members of the family that lived on the connecting wall were heavy smokers, our home smelled like cigarette smoke as well. Luckily, there was not a fire when we lived in that residence.

I will do whatever I have to do to stay in our detached home. I like privacy. I also like being able to sleep. People in apartments do stuff like vacuum at midnight and have parties.

I know there are so many here who believe that they should be able to decide how everyone else lives. Actually, it's none of your business. We have a 2100 sq ft home, which we've been pilloried for previously on this site. (How DARE two people live in a 2100 sq ft house!!111!!!!!) I have an office in our home. My husband will also have an office; the jobs he's applied for recently have all specified that he be able to work from home. We may end up having someone else living here as well, but right now, I do think it comical that there are so many who believe communal living is for everyone.

It's not.

[Historic NY]

47. I was glad to see a couple of real old bungalow style homes..

that have been abandoned for years sold near me. They apparently closed yesterday and were gutting them today. They were built before 1900, young couple fixing it to suit themselves. I have a few more around town that desperately need people willing to give them a work over. Those mega houses aren't selling like they did.

[paulsby]

50. why?

I'm for CHOICE.

the problem is not mcmansions.

the problem is that many people bought them when they couldn't afford them. their decision was based on the (ERRONEOUS) idea that markets only go in one direction - up.

that is true in NO market on earth.

maybe i am taking this a bit personally, since I am closing on a 3200 ft home that many would consider a mcmansion. hey, i saved. i waited for the crash. i am keeping cash on the side, and i am putting over 20% down. i am also pleased at a 4.66% 30 yr rate.

that's my decision, and i'm not going to feel guilty about it.

do i NEED that much house? no. it IS suburbia, but i like suburbia. i don't want excitement where i live. i want tranquility, good neighbors, low crime, a big yard to play in, a garden to grow, etc.

there is NOTHING wrong with a town home, a condo, or an apartment. different strokes for different folks.

if i was single, i might prefer something else. actually i am sure i would.

i do loathe chandeliers fwiw.

[Binka]

55. You Are A Riot! Been Reading You For A Couple Of Days. Bye Now.

PLONK!

[paulsby]

56. ph33r my mcmansion nt

[renate]

97. congratulations!

It sounds nice. And it sounds like the mortgage payments won't be keeping you up at night, which is nice too.

I hope you'll be very happy in your new home!

[paulsby]

143. thank you

i am not at all sure the market is at a bottom (it could fall more) but with interest rates what they are, and prices so far off their highs, i figured it was a reasonable time to make da plunge

[XemaSab]

53. A-fuckin'-men!

I'd pay money to have those fuckers burned down.

[L. Coyote]

54. They are so poorly built, they will be gone soon, and most have black mold already due to

flawed construction practices. But, the bankers, builders and realtors got rich!!

[rvablue]

75. I agree. My friend bought one several years back -- it's a huge house, but when someone on the

second floor master bath is taking a shower, you can hear the water downstairs on the other side of the house.

It's like the walls are made of cardboard.

Pretty house. Spacious. But no real privacy at all because the whole thing is one big echo chamber.

[justaregularperson]

57. It is still a huge drain on resources and energy

Even if the house is built energy efficient it still is wasteful to have 2000 square ft per person. It is like having 20 pairs of shoes. Some may not fill that extra space but most do. How will we ever get to a sustainable society if we don't have a better sense of conservation of resources?

Sure, each one individually does not seem that bad, but when you multiply all the resources by 100k you get quite a difference in resource consumption.

[rebecca_herman]

58. if people can afford it their choice

Personally I would never choose to live in an apartment or condo if I had any way to afford any house, even if it had to be a tiny house, in the suburbs for the quiet and privacy. I'm currently living in my parents' home while finishing school and specifically chose a school near home to avoid dorm life. I've lived in houses in suburbs my whole life. I like having privacy and having one's own lawn. And I'm very sensitive to sound and a poor sleeper so I'm glad I don't have other people's noises above/below/next to me to make it worse. Once I'm out on my own I'll live in whatever house I can afford in a quiet area, even if it's a shack, to me it's better than an apartment for the privacy and quiet. City life doesn't appeal to me. I like the quiet here. I'd like my future children to have their own nice backyard to play in. That's my preference and if I can afford it I will have it...

[acmavm]

60. People here are doing vanity posts over the size of houses? Yeah, this

will really make people stop building those McMansions all right. People just come here to DU to get their marching orders, don't ya know?

:sarcasm:

[LeftyMom]

61. I think there's some question as to what a McMansion is.

A McMansion is more than a big house.

Key elements of a McMansion, keeping in mind most will not exhibit all:
-House is too large for the neighborhood or plot of land, especially houses built in existing neighborhoods
-Often a mishmash of architectural styles
-Rooflines tend to be very complicated with many, many gables- this became more pronounced as the trend went on and was less the case in early examples
-Garage(s) are generally prominent and forward, except in communities where this is restricted by zoning
-Garage(s) sufficient to house three or more cars (early 90's on- late 80's models generally only have two car garages)
-Cars are generally parked in the driveway because garage is used for storage, or in late 80's models, garage door was not high enough to accommodate SUV
-Multistory construction, even in areas where this isn't a very good idea due to climate
-Two story entryway creating huge empty space to heat/air condition
-Number of bedrooms generally exceeds occupants, some may be used as home offices, game rooms or guest rooms, but sometimes the excess rooms are unfurnished
-Master bedroom has at least one walk-in closet
-Master bedrooms are much larger and more richly appointed than pre-McMansion era tract homes, secondary bedrooms are generally the same size or even a bit smaller than in their predecessors
-Number of bathrooms meets or exceeds number of (anticipated) occupants
-Master bath may be larger than secondary bedrooms
-Master bath has a tub which more closely resembles a spa
-Kitchen has an island, stainless-look (really chromed) appliances or both
-Kitchen cabinetry is mass-produced, often low quality, may be dressed up with expensive aftermarket hardware
-Formal dining room, generally never used

McMansions are different from older large homes. For example older homes tended to have more interior doors so that unused spaces could be closed off and not all rooms would need to be heated/cooled at all times. They also generally have less showy, more functional kitchens. Craftsmanship also shows in ways like better (custom) cabinetry, built-in shelving, clever use of space under stairways, etc.

[bobmorr1]

62. sick of the teardowns

Beautiful homes were torn down for these large homes that don't fit in. A neighbor across the street bought his McMansion for $970,000. Now its worth $760,00 and they are in preforclosure. All the homes have dropped. The neighbors next door work 6-7 days a week each just to pay their mortgage. Our house is a small ranch unique to the neighborhood, built around 1920. It feels great paying smaller utility bills, smaller real estate taxes and still having a house worth more than twice what we paid even after the values have dropped. We're fortunate to have paid our house off a few years ago. When the market was up we sold some stock to pay it off. The best thing we ever done.

[bridgit]

63. Until they write the tacky, gaudy, slow motion breakdowns of the McNouveaux Riches

out of the code books their likelihood will still be possible but yeah, enough is enough :kick:

[pnutbutr]

65. People want big stuff

It seems to be in our nature to want bigger and bigger stuff. These houses in suburbia and even further out cost the same as a townhome in the city. People see a McMansion and a townhome for the same price and the bigger house looks like the better deal. What gets me the most is the people who buy these big houses with a yard and then hire someone to do the yard work and never set foot outside. Why go outside when you have luxury inside. Fancy floors, furniture, plasma TV, granite counters, etc... Then the outside they do have gets paved over with sprawling decks, patios and pools. New trees and plants are shipped in because the area was clearcut to build the house. These houses and neighborhoods are a disaster before the builder even breaks ground.

[Hepburn]

66. When I was young and had a family....

...hubbie and I and the three boys lived in 4200 sq.ft. house. Of course, there was a pool house and a guest house outside of the main home.

When the boys left and hubbie passed on, I found the home owned me...and I did its bidding. So, it's gone and I live in a new 1700 sq. ft. manufactured home in a Senior development.

Times change...and needs become different!

[Name removed]

67. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

69. No, sorry, I don't agree at all

A family that has the resources to pay for a big house has a right to live in a big house.

Just how much of that "dream" do you need? A four car garage? A media room? 5 Bedrooms?

Why do feel that you have any business assessing other peoples' needs?

[MattBaggins]

70. I don't need 7000 feet of space

but I have to have some land. If I get the crazy urge to put in some fruit trees or start a small vineyard I need some space to do it.

I could never ever live in a high rise apartment building. I'd end up killing my neighbors.

[Evoman]

73. We are never going to live in a sustainable world. Never.

We are all a part of the bigger, better world with material dreams. Hoping that those scientists will come up with a way to save the world, while we keep living our lifestyles.

And I won't be too judgemental...because I'm as big into this shit as everybody else. I just don't lie to myself.

[RadiationTherapy]

78. No! No restrictions! No limit. No morals.

Whatever I can "afford" is mine. No consideration of others.

Ahhhhh...the american soul.

[L0oniX]

80. On the other hand, having a huge mansion is a dead giveaway and a future target for acts of revenge.

We know where you are. Maybe the rich might want to consider paying for Black Water personal to defend their mansions or move into something a little more modest.

[Bill McBlueState]

81. "What gives you the right to tell others how to live?"

Zoning laws.

If a community wanted to prevent homes above a certain size from being built, they'd change their zoning laws.

(This is just for all you keyboard libertarians out there.)

[Tracer]

100. Changing the zoning laws is happening.

In a nearby town (a very wealthy one) -- the zoning laws have changed in response to tear-downs in older neighborhoods that resulted in gigantic houses being built that were completely out of character with the existing area.

Now the square footage of a new house cannot exceed a certain percentage of the lot's acreage. And in that built-up town, the older neighborhoods have quite small lots.

[jmg257]

82. I think +/-3400' would be about right. Plus a garage w/heated storage, or a basement.

Living near cities might be OK, living within? No thanks.

Town house, condo, apartment - too small no privacy, no property.

[Xenotime]

83. The government should force those people to share with other families

If you loose your house to * tax cheating schemes then you should be allowed to move in with a family that has the room. It's only fair.

[tangent90]

90. Is that your Modest Proposal?

:eyes:

[jmg257]

91. What's fair about it?

[cherokeeprogressive]

105. Sign me up for an ocean view bedroom in Hyannis Port. n/t

[Deep13]

84. A modest house is still a house.

I'd rather have a modest house free and clear than live in a pretend mansion that the bank owns.

[tangent90]

86. I think someone should have the right to buy any kind of house they can afford.

...

[ChickMagic]

88. I totally agree with you

k&r

[paparush]

92. Tom and Doris in their McMansion and 3 cars. They have 4 kids who all grow up and

want McMansions and 3 cars.

Repeat, Deplete, Defeat

[cherokeeprogressive]

107. That's a knife that cuts both ways, friend.

Let's not forget Al and Tipper, or John and Elizabeth.

[marksmithfield]

128. Yep and what is wrong with success?

I mdont get the point of hating people who are able to succeed in life. Most of the posters here would love a nice large house, they just won't admit it

[paparush]

179. Well, what happens as China and India and the rest of the devolping world

follows our example?

We are all drawing from the same well of resources.

I just don't think its sustainable.

And we here in America, with our once-upon-a-time access to easy credit, live like there is no tomorrow. Literally.

Things, stuff, big houses, new cars, will never make us happy and will never make us safe.

[gollygee]

93. I agree and I don't think people get your point

My understanding is that you aren't wanting to change people's rights or have large homes outlawed. You just want people to consider size and environmental impact when they choose a home.

[northofdenali]

95. You'd LOVE the one built on my block in 2007 -

Not only is it the largest and most conspicuous residence in this neighborhood of older, mostly 2000 SF or less homes.........

It houses an Escalade, 2 Suburbans, a huge Dodge Ram, 4 snow machines, 2 Corvettes and the unruliest dog in the area.

And that last is really something to say when the "Fairbanks Evening Chorus" consists of listening to the sled dogs howl at feeding time (6 pm).

MY house is too big now that there's just the two of us, and we're less than 1700 SF, some of which is a single car garage!

[guitar man]

96. Oh I don't know

After living in a 1000 sq ft house as long as we have, 4000 sq ft sounds kinda nice. If I ever get where I can afford it, I want to buy some land out in the country and build something like this.



http://www.summithandcrafted.com/Floor_Plans/4000/Steamboat_4023_sq_ft_/Steamboat_4023_sq_ft_.htm

[Gormy Cuss]

99. Interesting how many reacted as if you said McMansions should be outlawed

as opposed to a simple agreement that they're not a trend to be promoted.

BTW, average house size in 1950 was just under 1000 SF; in 1970 it was about 1500 SF. Now it's about 2500 SF. During that same time average household size decreased.

And they're called townHOUSES. A home is where you live. Calling dwellings 'homes' is marketing.

[dysfunctional press]

133. "as opposed to a simple agreement that they're not a trend to be promoted"

how does "no more mcmansions!" translate to:

"a simple agreement that they're not a trend to be promoted" ?

the tone of the op subject line was definitely more towards 'outlawing' them.

[Gormy Cuss]

157. The tone is more like a rallying cry IMHO.

The OP doesn't use language that limits "no more McMansions" to making them against the law. The point is that it's a wasteful excess. It's more akin to deriding low mileage cars and other legal choices to spend one's money in a manner that may not be in the best interests of society in general or the planet.

[pretty]

101. excuse me? I think people should be able to reside

in the type of place they're most comfortable with!

[MattBaggins]

112. I agree but just think you should consider

Should I be able to drive a tank if I feel comfortable in one. Should anyone that wants to drive, a rig to work be able to as long as they can afford it?

[mainer]

118. Yes, you should be able to. As long as you pay a premium.

What's the alternative? First you'll restrict which cars we can drive, then which houses we can build, then how many kids we have, how many acres we can own, how much we weigh, how much food we eat, how many cats we can own.

Presto, you've got a totalitarian society.

[MattBaggins]

156. So premiums are OK?

As long as your rich, you should be able to do as you please but everyone else has to live within guidelines?

[Arugula Latte]

104. Here's another thread on this topic: "Why do people need such giant houses?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=8534138

[RiverStone]

108. While I personally agree, threads critical of lifestyle choices tend to get nasty

I have found it interesting on DU, that whereas we all profess to sharing certain values - when it comes to personal choices - people still resent being told what they "should do" even if it is contrary to progressive values.

I was pitched a lot of shit here when I suggested that folks who drive SUV's are not being very environmentally ethical. You would not believe all the rationalizations why in "this case" it was OK.

What I learned from that was ultimately, better just to walk my talk. We are after all dedicated to personal choices and freedom to make those choices --- even on a progressive message board, there is little room to tell people how they should live, drive, smoke, wear their hair etc.

BTW, I live in a 1,200 sq. ft. home and did so with 2 kiddos - small 3 bedroom and energy efficient.

So - I'm gonna still rec your thread! :hi:

[KittyWampus]

111. I think it's better to state your case and point out the hypocrites on DU. Who really cares if

other DU'ers get their knickers in a twist?

[NeedleCast]

109. Why?

If people can afford it and someone will build it, why does it matter? Let people live how they want assuming they can afford to do so. Who am I to tell someone they can't have a huge house if that's what they want?

[MattBaggins]

114. Or how about

starting a dialogue and perhaps suggest that people reconsider the mammoth sized houses they are building?

Why would you care if I just dig a hole in my backyard and crap in it.
Why would you care if I bought a big rig just to take the kids to school and get groceries.
Why would you care if I turned on the furnace and the A/C at the same time and let them fight it out.

[NeedleCast]

130. Thats fine, dialogue is fine

At the same time, the OP didn't ask that. The OP essentially said "can't we all agree that McMansions = Bad!

My house is small and green but it's not hard to make a house that is large and still green. Nor does having a small house mean it's a better buy. My house is small but old and the insulation is terrible. My heating bill is high. I do what I can to keep it down, but a big house with good insulation is probably more efficient than a small house with poor insulation.

[havocmom]

117. Been working on drawings for 4 units built around a communal 'plaza'

Each unit has 2 bedrooms AND a small, private courtyard that opens into the communal square, around which the units are built. Each unit has garage and front door off in different directions, providing more privacy than typical townhouses. And each has a small private yard off living room/master bedroom.

Maybe when I finish up the drawings for my little utopia, I will post on DU.

[scd1008]

127. Please Do......

I would be very interested in your plans.
Drop me a note when finished.

Regards

[renate]

147. welcome to DU!

:hi:

Those homes do sound lovely, don't they, for those who want greenery (I've always wanted a courtyard) and don't need much space? It would be so fun to live in a unit like that with a group of friends, or with families with kids of similar ages.

[Terran]

120. One problem is municipal government

A lot of cities have altered their minimum size for a new home over the years until the smallest house you can build is twice the size of what it was in the 1960's. And obviously this is being done to draw wealthier residents and shut out middle-income people. It's not just individual greed, it's government too.

[KittyWampus]

121. such a salient point. It also ups the amount of property tax collected.

[Terran]

123. Yes, property tax is probably the main motivation.

I imagine they see benfits to the local commerical sector as well. But mainly it's money in the city's pocket.

[SmileyRose]

122. I honestly don't care how big a house someone else has.

I just care that our citizens have some sort of decent roof over their head.

If a single person wants and enjoys a 10,000 sq ft house I could really care less.
If a family of 11 are mostly comfortable in a 1300 sq ft house (I grew up in this family) then more power to us.

We have 3 in my house plus 2-4 houseguests on a fairly regular basis. My house is just under 1000 sq ft and is shockingly user friendly due to the layout. I even have 2 walkin closets. We have been grumbling about wanting just one more room though so husband can leave up his music everything all the time.

[RiverStone]

136. It really bothers me to see pretentious mansions

What a huge waste of precious and finite world resources - not to mention the wasteful energy required to maintain it.

Of course, I don't try and tell em how to live - but it bothers me.

And yes, all folks deserve a good roof over their heads. I just hate to see so much sq. footage of rain forest taken out each day for opulent choices.

[SmileyRose]

146. pretentious is in the eye of the beholder.

because there is always someone out there with something bigger, and always someone out there with something less to compare to. The vast majority of humans on this planet don't even have electricity and plumbing. If you took the worst roach infested pay by the week efficiency lodge in America and dropped into any of these other places around the world those folks would consider that a mansion fit for kings. Quite frankly, if we took the 10x10 prison cells shared by 2-4 inmates, complete with electricity and 3 squares of pig slop a day, and dropped those into many places in the world they would consider that moving up in status.

By contrast, there are places in this world, mostly in OPEC countries, with so much wealth they can afford to create a manmade island out in the ocean - that the 4000 sq ft McMansions going up all over Atlanta would be seen as shacks hardly fit for the servants.

[RiverStone]

159. true..and yet

With your relative (and good) examples, the one thing which is NOT in the eye of the beholder are the fact that we have a limited amount of rain forest, ozone layer, etc. that are finite on our planet in the year of 2009.

Yes, my very modest 3 bedroom home of 1,200 sq.ft (divorced dad - 2 teenagers) would be a mansion to families of 6-10 that share a cardboard/sheet metal dwelling in the slums of Calcutta, so I do appreciate your relative comparisons.

But I feel strongly that those who have a choice and the means the go smaller (and still live in the lap of luxury) have a moral obligation to conserve what's left on this planet for everybody (rich and poor alike). They don't have to live BIG - building less means saving more for the rest of us.

peace~

[SmileyRose]

170. Conservation wise

I will say someone I know who bought a "teardown" 850sq ft bungalow, lived in it for 4 years then "remodeled" (they followed the rule and left one wall up (studs only)) they built a 3100 sq ft "McMansion" in it's place. They resold/salvaged everything in the old house that was salvagable. They re-used some of the materials. The new house, nearly 4 times as large as the old one had the same energy costs as the old one after a year of living in the house.

This particular family entertains quite a lot. He owns his own business, has his biggest customers over. The more money he makes the more he does for philanthropy. He also entertains quite a lot to pick people's pockets for charities too.

Oh sure some, probably many of the folks in McMansions are selfish resource hogs. But when I drive by their houses, I don't know who's a resource hog and who's using that nice house to lure in money for really good causes, business contacts etc. Yes, it would be nice if the CEO's were impressed with a businessman who lives in a beat up mobile home, but they aren't. We do what we can to survive in the world in which we live. And since I don't know by looking who's the selfish hog and who's the philanthropist then I just make a choice not to judge.

I have 984 sq ft for 3 adults. The house I grew up was not much bigger and housed 11 people. (2 parents plus us 5 kids plus my 4 cousins) - the house my father was raised in was in eastern Kentucky, and about the size of a one car garage now. No electric, phone or running water. Our societal expectations have changed. IMHO it's not about morality, it's about "fitting in".

Now having said all that, I'm ALL FOR -- 1000% all for -- moving our society toward a more modest standard of living all the way around. I'd like to see status come from who we are and who we serve rather than what we own.

[scd1008]

124. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You..........

God Bless you........
You finally had the guts to say it.
Look at how much good agricultural land the McMansions have consumed.
I spent 13 years in court fighting a developer who wanted to fill in a wet land (my spring source)
for a development.
By some miracle I won.
Why not reuse an old building?
The ultimate in recycling.

Regards

[AngryAmish]

125. What sort of sneering, elitist bullshit is this?

Some people live differently than you do. In a diverse country one must learn that others live differently than you do.

I have lived in the suburbs, I have lived in the city, I have lived in the country. Each different culture in unique and has it's own good points and bad points. People are free to move about in this nation.

You have to understand that you do not have received wisdom from the gods which enable you to determine how every American must live their life. A little humility is in order.

People are different. They like different things. Get over it. Learn to live with people different than you. Having a closed mind hurts everybody.

[scd1008]

131. Amish

If you really are Amish, then you would know what the McMansions have done to the Amish community in Lancaster County Penna.
Manheim township and east to Chester County.
Land prices for development have driven the Amish as far north as State College Penna. and as far west as Ohio and beyond.
If you wish to use the name, stand for the preservation of their lifestyle.

Regards

[AngryAmish]

134. Then why are their more Amish now than ever before?

The Amish can preserve their lifestyle just fine. And maybe they make a few bucks selling to developers. Or the stupid english who think that Amish are on some higher moral plane.

They are human beings, not zoo animals for you to enjoy. Treat them as such.

[scd1008]

138. Pardon me.........

Excuse me Amish, but I hardly consider them as 'zoo animals'.
That is VERY offensive.
Come Thursday, 2/3 of my payroll will be written to Amish employees.
They are loyal, hard working, and Dear friends of mine.
Hardly 'zoo animals'.

[dem mba]

129. how big of a house is acceptable to you?

3000 sq ft?

2000?

What if you own a dog? 2 dogs? 1 dog but it's small? What if you have a kid? 2 kids? 1 kid but he's small?

How big could your house be then?

My point is you are asking a silly question, or at least making an irrelevant point. Zoning laws are already in effect, but beyond that it gets impossible if not impractical to use public policy to affect housing decisions (assuming there are no financial issues).

Do we have too many McMansions right now? Hell yes. But the market will correct itself and I can assure you nobody is building these developments right now, especially not in Florida and Michigan.

You and I can gripe about the excesses of American life, but it's that chandelier-foyered dream that makes people get up and go to work, to start their own businesses, and create new products and services. It's a carrot on a stick and we all know it, but it's what makes us competitive with countries that have cheaper labor (India), more people (China), better technology (Japan), better education (Europe), etc etc.

[alarimer]

132. Building giant homes in the suburbs is environmentally irresponsible.

It is incredibly destructive to habitat for all kinds of animals and plants. It also means most people have to commute huge distances, burning all kinds of fossil fuels, not to mention the ugliness and sameness of the suburbs. I fucking hate it. We need to rethink urban planning on a large scale. Since when does every single person or family have to own a home? This selfish thinking is ruining the planet. Every single one of us is guilty of selfishness by putting our wants and desires (no on "needs" 400 sq ft. NO ONE) over the planet. We have to get over ourselves and live in denser, planned communities. Build upward, not outward.

[scd1008]

139. Agreed.......

Amen!!!

[SmileyRose]

144. High density housing has it's own downside.

and the planet will be just fine regardless of what we do. We may make ourselves extinct but the planet will survive with or without us. Even if we miraculously managed to murder every single living thing on the planet - this planet spawned life once, it will do it again.

No I'm not justifying irresponsible living. I work very hard to live as frugally and produce the least pollution I can to live in the culture I must survive in. We do this to help preserve some resources for the next generation of humans, not to "save the planet".

[leftynyc]

135. No - I don't agree

Who wants to live in a country where the government gets to decide what kind of house I can buy? As long as I can afford it, it's done of the government's, or your business.

[Cleita]

137. I always preferred a smaller place and more land because I prefer to spend

most of my life living outdoors anyway. I think it's healthy to get a family outside for most of the day doing gardening as well as playing. I always thought these palatial homes on tiny lots, with the kids indoors playing video games to be unhealthy.

[Fireweed247]

140. Domes for all!

If you want a spacious home, that is efficient to build and heat etc. maybe people need to look into an entirely different type of housing. You can even buy some property and build this yourself...

[Thothmes]

168. Side of a hill would not be my first choice of building sites thought.

[rug]

150. Tax property by the square foot.

[mainer]

153. land as well? It would certainly discourage farms.

and open spaces. And is it still a McMansion if it's surrounded by 300 acres?

[EFerrari]

162. Agri land is taxed at a different rate. n/t

[Stargazer09]

155. We live near the McMansions in our area

We have one of the smallest houses in the subdivision (2300 sq. ft. with a 1200 sq. ft. unfinished basement, about 3500 sq. ft. total). Most of our neighbors' houses have at least 5000 sq. ft. when their basements are finished; some of the houses are close to 7000 sq. ft. total.

Most of our neighbors have one or two children in those huge houses (if any), while we have five young children living with us in a three bedroom ranch. However, because we bought such a small house (comparatively speaking), I am able to stay home with my children until they all reach school age.

Our yard is pretty small, and there's barely 20' between houses. I would LOVE to have more land to myself, but I'll save that luxury for our after-the-military home.

[noiretextatique]

160. space is absolutely a part of our unsustainable lifestyle

the one we need to change.

[On the Road]

161. I Have No Desire for a Huge House

although it doesn't bother me that Bill Gates, or for that matter John Edwards, lives in a mansion.

Criticizing excess is fine, but I don't know what limits or regulations that could be imposed with starting to infringe on people's legitimate use of their money. As we saw last century, levelling the economic playing field by more progressive taxation goes a long way toward balancing housing, too.

[rhett o rick]

164. Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about. What are you proposing?? nm

[OnionPatch]

165. I don't so much think it's always wrong but

the idea that you MUST have this much space or you're slumming it is just ridiculous. It's another symptom of our materialistic, status-seeking culture. And some of the blame goes to all the TV shows on home improvement where they constantly look down their noses at the type of homes 99% of Americans live in. You know a 1500-2000 sf home with formica counters instead of granite. They must know they offend a lot of people with their snotty remarks. What dumps we all live in, eh?

[cherokeeprogressive]

166. "What is wrong with a Town home? A high rise condo? An Apartment?" Or a hive?

Resistance is futile.

[TwilightGardener]

171. I would never want to clean or furnish a house bigger than 2000 sq ft, or clean more than 2 toilets.

My house is that size, and it's all I can do to keep up with the housework and the gardening. I think I'd need staff for a bigger house...and that sure as hell ain't gonna happen.

[dana_b]

173. now you're talking!

I would hate to clean anymore than that! As it is, we live in a 680 sq ft apartment (three adults and one medium sized dog) and it's so cluttered that it's hard to keep organized. Clean, okay - organized - forget abou it!

[Retired AF Dem]

176. I agree

I live in a 1200 sq feet home and hate to clean it. I'm so lazy I never use one of the bathrooms so I wont have to clean it. :)

[PM Martin]

181. I know how you feel.

I keep the other bathroom closed too.

[kaygore]

174. McMansions & Hummers! It is our business as both are wasteful

The McMansions not only waste materials used to build them but the energy costs are enormous.

I read through all the responses before me and I realize that taking this position labels me as self-righteous and is none of my business; however, as resources dwindle, conservation and the foot print that each of us makes is everyone's business. Just because you can afford something does not mean that having it is OK.

I look at the McMansions and the Hummers and all I can see is waste and excess. Both items scream selfishness to me and I am not the only one who expresses this view.

Huge homes on tiny little lots, one home's windows staring into the windows of the next house: Wow! Now that's not very impressive. As for the custom homes on larger lots with windows that actually have a view, while such homes may be nice, my reaction is that the owners are trying to compensate for perceived inadequacies as are those with homes on the postage stamp lots. As this may not be true, that's many people's reactions when they see a Hummer (small penis; ED) and a McMansion (spousal abuse; poor socialization; not chosen captain of the football team in high school).

Those who are impressed by such wanton excesses are not worth impressing in my humble opinion!

[Dumak]

175. I'd like to see the end of residential property as an investment

no more multiple home ownership. Tax-free ownership on the first 500 sq ft land space per person. After that the tax rate goes up, and then more sharply after 1000 sq ft. (Something along those lines)

[CLANG]

177. Yes, except for people with 6 kids and then miraculously 8 more...

[digidigido]

178. Now I understand why there are Republicans... Stupid Threads Like This

[PM Martin]

180. kick

[pipi_k]

188. Not talking specifically about McMansions here, but the whole housing thing...

A couple of years ago, the residents of my state elected Deval Patrick over the then Lieutenant Governor, Kerry Healey.

We've had a Republican Governor for a long time here, and that election might have gone in her favor except for one thing...

She made one fatal error:

She proposed that elderly people living in homes that were "too big" for them should move out (and live with relatives...or senior housing...or wherever) and sell/give their homes to families with children who could better utilize all that space.

I personally don't care how people live...whether they want to live in 4000 sq ft "McMansions" or tiny little cabins - as long as they can afford their homes.

She wanted elderly people, who could still afford to live where they were living, and no doubt had paid off their mortgages years ago, to move out. To relinquish their homes to families with kids.

Like I said, this was a fatal error.

Don't fuck with the old people. Don't EVER tell them they need to move away from the homes they love.

Not really apropos to anything in this thread, I suppose, just a story about what people's homes mean to them personally.

Oh, and the great mistake of messing with the elderly. ;)