Mom who crushed baby says don't co-sleep

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/health/2009/02/23/cohen.cosleep.dangers.cnn

A bit one sided but all in all a pretty good piece. Inevitable flame war to begin in 5 4 3 2....

David

[hlthe2b]

1. I don't think this is common...

But certainly something to be considered, especially for an exhausted mother who may sleep far more heavily than normal. I don't know why you wouldn't have the crib next to the bed rather than sleep with the baby. :shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. Good point.

I think the video said 315 cases in 2007. Most experts would say that's the bottom estimate. It is not unusual for accidental suffocation cases to be ruled SIDS death to attempt to lessen the trauma to the parents which would cause the actual number to be much higher.

David

[ejpoeta]

10. no matter how tired i was i never slept that soundly

i would wake up as soon as the baby rustled. My husband is a sound sleeper. we have a big enough bed that there is enough room.

[Kalyke]

15. Same here.

Daughter still sleeps with us.

She goes to bed by herself and then we move her. We have a three story house and prefer not to have to run up and down steps all night if she needs us.

[Fireweed247]

18. the parent wouldn't be so exhausted if they could sleep well

Babies need to nurse a lot all night long so a parent can sleep much better with the child nursing as they both drift back to sleep. Some parents sleep better knowing the baby is right there and not getting into any trouble in their crib etc.

Imagine a baby all snuggled in the womb, suddenly is born and forced to go to sleep all alone in a cold prison box. No wonder they wake up all night long. It is just common sense to have them closer and warm and happy until they are ready.

[Vinca]

2. I don't care to watch the video, but agree it's a very bad idea

to put babies in the bed to sleep with you. This happened to a young woman and her child when I was a police officer. Another warning has to do with cats. Years ago I knew a woman who had a newborn who died when her Siamese cat jumped into the crib and crushed the baby's head. I love cats and don't think anyone with a baby should give them up, but it's not a bad idea to keep an eye on them when the baby is around and maybe restrict them from a sleeping baby's room.

[madmom]

32. This is true with cats,....

we had a cat that liked to sleep on my toddler's face. He some how always managed to get into his room. We had to give the cat away.

[JNelson6563]

3. When my were newborn

and I was exhausted I would bring baby to bed with me to nurse. I was quite used to having the baby in my belly and had no problem not rolling over on him/her (had one of each three yrs. apart).

Everybody's different though.

Julie

[JerseygirlCT]

47. Me too. I'm a very light sleeper, though -

I would hear the slightest little coo during the night anyway - from another room!

The only reason that didn't happen with my second was that he was a little party guy, and if he were in bed with us, he'd never sleep - too much stimulation!

[JNelson6563]

60. I didn't necessarily sleep lightly

I think it was instinct. I mean, really, when you think about it, at a point in pregnancy you don't roll over on your belly anymore cause the baby's there. If, soon after baby is born, you take baby to bed to nurse when they wake up hungry, there's not much change there IMO.

Julie

[JerseygirlCT]

65. I know what you mean - there is this instinctive thing -

I remember having my firstborn laying on my chest when he was a few months old. And I realized after a few breaths, that I still couldn't really tell where he began and I ended. There was still a real, nearly physical connection.

I was a bit concerned about my husband, who is not a light sleeper, though. So when we fell asleep, my baby and I, in bed, I didn't sleep well - always on alert, I think.

[LeftyMom]

5. If I had another I'd definitely cosleep.

1. I was very aware of my kid's space while sleeping. I was no more likely to roll over him than over my cat, or any person who should happen to be in my bed.

2. There are safety rules for cosleeping (no drugs or alcohol, no pillows anywhere near the baby, light blankets only) that increase safety. I know and understand them. Most "cosleeping" accidents don't involve safe planned cosleeping in a properly prepared space, they involve some drunk asshat sleeping with their baby on a couch or some crap like that.

3. When done safely (see #2) the benefits of cosleeping- better sleep for mother and child, better breastfeeding results and the related health benefits are substantial.

4. Cribs really aren't safe, IMO. Especially when not near the parent. Babies need to be supervised, it's really not safe to have them sleep alone.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. You have educated yourself and made an informed decision.

That is what more people need to do.

David

[dropkickpa]

28. I co-slept with Dropkid, and will/would with any future kids

To this day, if she (age 8) crawls into bed with me, instinct kicks in and I kick all the blankets and pillows off the bed and then don't move a muscle the whole night, even if I am dead asleep when she crawls into bed with me. I didn't get my boxspring and mattress off the floor until she was two, and didn't get a headboard until she was 5, long after she'd gotten her own bed (and was actually sleeping in it). If I was horribly sick or felt impaired in any way, Dropkid slept in her crib, end of story.

Every co-sleeping accident I read about, it always comes out eventually that there's something such as drinking, drugs (illegal or not), an unsafe environment (high bed, pillows, lots of blankets, headboards/footboards), etc involved.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. I agree the vast majority of accidents involve some unsafe environment or usafe act.

[Arugula Latte]

52. Me too. Co-slept with both of mine.

They breastfed and went back to sleep. And so did I. Sooo much nicer than getting out of bed. Not to mention we got plenty of cuddling in. That feeling of security for a baby/toddler is priceless, IMO.

[LeftyMom]

6. dupe

Stoopid glitchy internets.

[leftchick]

7. not just mom, dads sleep in the bed too!

Even though my first born slept with us safely until he was three months I would not recommend it. I started out doing the same with my second baby until I woke up one night when he was just a few weeks old and he was about to fall through the baseboard rails. His teeny body could have slipped right through and he would have landed on the floor. That freaked me out so bad he never slept with us again. I still think his guardian angel woke me in time to save him, it was that close.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. Children falling through the baseboard rails is more common than people think.

Glad he's okay.

David

[leftchick]

41. he has already used up about six lives

he has almost drown three times. I hope now that he is almost twelve he will use better judgment. The child is a miracle in the first place, both of my boys are IVF babies. That makes for a most paranoid mother.

[seabeyond]

8. i had never heard this when mine were babies and i am glad. my oldest slept with us often

youngest, never...

my oldest had a need for the warmth, comfort and skin on skin. since birth. tells me pretty important. i often found myself at edge of bed when i woke cause he would cocoon under us. in sleep i was scooting continually to give him space, not smother (without thought).

if i had heard this, i might not have had him in bed. glad i was able to experience, and he was, all of us as a family, without fear.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. Fear wasn't my intent.

[seabeyond]

35. most mama's hold fear near and dear. would have been a tough one to have a baby

with the need for the closeness, the need as innate as caress and touch yet have the fear of allowing to sleep with us. just a time i am glad i was ignorant on this, ergo.... was able to give baby what he needed with lying in fear every night

it is a good message, and i understand where you are coming from

sometimes though we have to weigh risk

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. There are ways to do it with very little if any increased risk.

Education is the key.

David

[seabeyond]

38. wink.... thanks david. i am beyond the stage

but it is an important message

[ejpoeta]

9. i have two children who slept in bed with my husband and i

and they are just fine. I was worried about rolling over on them when they were babies, but we were very careful. we'd be on the edge of the bed and emily (now 10) would be sprawled out all over. Ashley (now 3) had a bassinet in our room and i would put her in there and she would end up in bed with us. I breastfed too, and it turned out to be easier to just have her there. the tough part was when we put her in her room and she kept coming in bed with us. she still does sometimes, but not as much.

[Arkansas Granny]

11. I never slept with any of my 4 children for fear that I could smother one of them.

I really don't think it's a good idea and it really scares me to hear people talking about sleeping with their infants. I sincerely hope that they never have any reason to regret doing so.

[etherealtruth]

62. Out of curiosity

Did you nurse your children?

Reading through this thread most of the supporters of "co-sleeping" nursed their babies.

I can be added to this list as well. I nursed all three and slept with all three; the oldest is 27 and the youngest (almost) 13.

[Arkansas Granny]

69. Yes, I nursed all of my children.

[MineralMan]

12. Products for safe co-sleeping are available:

Here's one (click below to see image in new window):

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/nurturecenter_2039_39498032

You can get it at this place, along with other options on the home page of the site.

http://shop.nurturecenter.com/snnesuwiin.html

[mainer]

17. how does any parent get a good night's sleep?

when they worry all night about rolling over their baby? Mothers get little enough sleep as it is because of nocturnal feedings. If you spend the whole night sleeping lightly out of fear you could crush your baby, then you're just wearing yourself out. The only way I could sleep deeply was when I knew my son was in his crib.

[pretty]

19. I can't get my sister to stop doing that!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. Show her the video.

At a very minimum she should educate herself on how to do it safely. No big comforters, no animals, no husbands, no plush pillow top mattress. I'm sure someone will post a link.

David

[Lost in CT]

21. Tragic I feel bad for the mother... but in reality this is quite rare. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. While rare, I believe it is more common than one might think.

Many so called "SIDS" cases are actually accidental suffocations. They are still rare events. Regardless, I believe everyone would agree that even 315 needless infant deaths that can easily be prevented through education, should be prevented.

David

[gollygee]

40. And many SIDS deaths happen in cribs, as do many accidental suffocations

SIDS used to be called "crib death" before crib manufacturers hired marketers to help them change the name.

Co-sleeping can be unsafe if done wrong. Crib sleeping can also be unsafe if done wrong.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

63. Absolutely, accidental suffocations often don't involve co-sleeping.

[Marrah_G]

22. I always kept my little ones in a rocking bassinet next to my bed.

I could reach an arm out and rock them or I could bring them into bed while I fed them and then put them back into the bassinet.

The only one who slept in my bed was my youngest when he was a toddler. At the time he had medical issues and that was the only way I could get any sleep. Thank goodness he did because he actually stopped breathing one night and if he had not been in bed with us I would not have known.

Not that I slept much that year....short naps was all I got until I eventually went off the deep end.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. If I might ask...

What kind of health problems? How long did he stop breathing for? Did you have to perform rescue breathing? Please excuse the privacy intrusion, your case sounds like a classic "SIDS" case, with the exception that you intervened.

David

[Marrah_G]

26. He was being treated for epilepsy at the time- especialy prevalant at night

It turned out to be a heart condition called Wolf Parkinsons White disease that mimics childhood epilepsy sometimes.

I did not perform the rescue breathing- I handed him to a medic/fireman and he was blue. The man saved his life (literally) and since he was unconscious for so long they did an ekg which showed the heart problem. He was then rushed to childrens in Boston for Cath surgery.

he is fine now except that the tegritol (sp?) he was on for the 18 months prior left some damage and he is a bit delayed, especially socially.

He was age 2-4 when he slept with us. Not as an infant.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. I'm familiar with WPW.

It's very easy to miss. I glad they caught it when they did and I'm glad he made it. My thoughts and prayers for his continued improvement.

David

[Marrah_G]

59. The surgery was a total sucess :)

The only remnants is the damage done to his brain early on. He does okay though- he is now a freshman in High School

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

61. Excellent.

[JerseygirlCT]

48. I kept them right next to me like that, too

But the oldest would often fall asleep, along with me, while nursing overnight. Not an intentional choice, but the only way I got some rest with that guy!

[Gormy Cuss]

53. Bassinets are great for young infants.

My mother kept us in a rocking bassinets until we were too big to sleep comfortably in one (about 6 months old, as I recall.) She did it because she thought babies slept better in it and because she could tend to the infant without leaving the bedroom most of the time. I think for any one who likes the idea of co-sleeping but is skittish about the risk a bassinet would be a good compromise.

[Carni]

23. People should be VERY sure they don't have a sleep disorder..

Before sleeping with an infant.

I suppose 9 out of 10 people would be fine practicing this...I sleep walk--not a good thing.

I personally would never sleep with a baby in the bed.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. 1) We are mammals. It is natural for babies & moms to want to sleep next to each other, particularly

when you're talking about nursing.

2) When it comes to parenting, everyone has the "one right way" to do it, and everyone seems very interested in telling everyone else how THEY should do it.

3) As the piece mentioned, cosleeping is pretty common around the world. Not breastfeeding- and sticking your baby in a crib- are relatively modern, western developments. As far as breastfeeding goes, the benefits are well-proven.

4) ANYONE who considers co-sleeping should do the research, understand the dangers and the rules (about blankets, alcohol, etc.) and as someone else mentioned, if you've got a sleep disorder or the like, don't do it... obviously.

5) As someone else mentioned, there are products that can help, including co-sleepers that you can attach to the side of the bed: http://www.armsreach.com/ (make sure you attach it properly and tight!)

6) I will say that there seems to be something of a reactionary bias in some quarters against co-sleeping that has nothing to do with safety. I've heard it from grannies and pediatricians; like, "how are you going to get them OUT of your bed???" Like I said, in parenting, everyone's got an agenda. Some days it's worse than a lacrosse match, with Team Ferber and Team Weissbluth and Team Sears all beating the shit out of each other with big sticks.

7) I also have to say, in terms of co-sleeping in this country-- and how do I put this gently?-- I have to suspect that some of the problem, sometimes, here may be caused by the fact that so many Americans are running around a good 50-100 lbs overweight. I think that may be a real factor, and something else to consider.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. My only agenda is having fewer dead infants.

I have said it in this thread and others, co-sleeping can absolutely be done safely by many parents. Everyone should be aware of the risks of doing it the wrong way and all parents who choose to do it should be well educated in the safe ways to do it.

David

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Absolutely. I wasn't suggesting you had an agenda, more that's my experience with the

"professional" baby advice industry, particularly when there's a $7.99 paperback book involved.

I agree with everything you say above; I think the CNN piece was a little sensationalized and, as you yourself put it, one sided. But I agree that people should go into whatever they do fully informed.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. I didn't mean that to come across that way.

I really didn't think you were speaking of me. I was really just trying to say that I have no agenda here other than the welfare of the children. It would really be nice to reduce or eliminate these deaths, a little education is all that is needed.

David

[Warren DeMontague]

58. I would also say that it's pretty clear some people should NOT.

Anybody who makes a habit of going to bed drunk, for one.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

64. I completely agree with you.

[mainer]

42. What about, um, sex? What do you do with your toddlers?

Just something I've always wondered about.

[ogneopasno]

44. Really? You really have absolutely no idea how people might have sex if they co-sleep with their

kids? No idea at all?

I know I'm being rudely sarcastic, but jeez.

[mainer]

46. It just seems a little inhibiting when the little ones are right there with you.

Or do I just place too much emphasis on the husband/wife relationship?

[ogneopasno]

55. There are other places to have sex besides the bed, and other times to have sex than bedtime.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. No, maybe you just fall into the very common habit of associating the big bed and nighttime with sex

As other posters have noted, there are lots of ways and places to do it.

If co-sleeping had been part of some plot by my wife to scale back our sex life dramatically, I would have noticed-- and I probably wouldn't consider it a very good idea. :rofl:

[gollygee]

45. I don't know where you live, but my house has more than one room

More than one bedroom, even.

[mainer]

49. that's the point. Co-sleepers have their babies in the same bed.

So you leave the kids sleeping and go to another room?

I'm not saying this to get snarky reactions. A couple I know got divorced a few years ago, and the husband believes that his wife's insistence on co-sleeping with the kids was actually her way of distancing herself from any sexual relations. He felt it was a symptom of something she couldn't otherwise communicate to him.

[gollygee]

50. Well if one partner doens't want to have sex, he or she can come up with any reason he/she wants

But yes, we go to another room.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Usually by the time people with little kids actually make it to bed, they're pretty pooped.

I've always found other times of the day to be more, uh, productive. And as it is, while I'm not a big fan of parking the kids in front of the television, a little judicious Sesame Street usage can be very helpful for marriage maintenance.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. The living room floor got old fast, I will say that. Maybe if we were both younger.

As it is, you adapt and adjust.

[Maine-ah]

70. lol, we camped out in the living room.

I was soooo happy when BB Maine-ah started sleeping in a big kid bed. She never liked her crib. She would sleep in a bassinet next to our bed until she got too big for it, but she never spent more than a couple of hours in her crib. We still co-sleep. But it's not for the whole night. She'll wake up around 2-3 am, and I'll just bring her into bed with us at that point. I work nights, so by the time she wakes up, I'm more interested in getting a little more sleep than trying to get her back into her own bed.

I sleep lightly, so even the slightest move out of her or my husband wakes me right up.

[MorningGlow]

34. I didn't have a choice

From the very second MG Jr. was born, he needed to be near someone else while he slept. We had bought a cosleeper (the shallow cribs that attach to the side of the bed), and he'd only sleep in it for 10 minutes at a time before waking and sobbing his heart out. Some kids are just like that. Plus I don't think he liked how rock-hard the mattress was. I realize that it's to prevent SIDS, but criminy, he was uncomfortable. He napped well in the portable car seat, so we tried that. No dice. I breastfed him in bed in the middle of the night, and we'd both drop off to sleep, and only then was he content.

As he got older we tried to teach him to sleep in his crib--including the "cry it out" thing, but he'd cry so much he'd get a nosebleed. The kid NEVER gave up. (At 5, he's still just as stubborn.) He'd either sleep on my lap in a chair (I'd often wake up at dawn with all kinds of muscle aches from that) or we'd end up in the bed.

Even now, if he scoots into our bedroom in the middle of the night, we make room for him. I put him in the middle so he doesn't fall off, and I end up on the outer edge with about a total of 4 inches width for me. LOL!

I realize that some women might be very heavy sleepers. I have never been a heavy sleeper--I wake up at the slightest noise or movement in the bed, and that's a good thing, because if we had to tussle with Jr. any longer in order to try to force him to stay in his bed alone, I would have died from lack of sleep.

[Blue Diadem]

37. 315 babies died from overlay in 2003-2004.

That's really sad. Several years ago we were given a geneology list and a book of stories from my husband's maternal grandmother that were retold by one of my husband's aunts. His grandmother had 13 children, 2 died young. One died in infancy from co-sleeping. That night another toddler sibling came and got into bed. They awoke in the morning to find the baby dead.

[etherealtruth]

66. The flip side of that is SIDs is almost unheard of

In cultures where co-sleeping is the norm.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

71. Know if we only knew what was causing SIDS.

[Lyric]

43. I don't see why this has to be anything more than a personal matter.

Some people choose to do it, some don't. Sure, there are accidents at times--but how many kids have been killed co-sleeping as compared to kids killed riding bicycles--even *with* helmets? Bicycle deaths, like co-sleeping deaths, are equally easy to prevent. So why do people come down on co-sleeping parents instead of parents who let their kids ride bikes? Actually, I can answer my own question--it's because kids riding bikes is a cultural "norm," while co-sleeping is not.

I wouldn't co-sleep, personally; I tried it and found that I couldn't relax with the baby in bed with me. But that's MY choice. I don't sit around on a high horse judging other people for choosing differently. I don't believe that co-sleeping is just the best thing ever for everybody, but I also don't believe it's a bad thing either. It's just another human variation.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. Who's judging people?

Co-sleeping doesn't need to be dangerous. Education could stop the majority of these deaths. That's the point.

David

[kwassa]

51. No co-sleeping for us

Our daughter was adopted at three months, though she was ten weeks premature, and spent two months in a NICU. She started out in cribs, basically, the wonderful foster mother who had her for a month also kept her in a crib, and after a brief time in a basinet, we went for the crib, too. We have the crib in the nursery next to our bedroom.

She has thrived, happy, healthy, smart, and affectionate. Learning French and English at the same time.

[BreweryYardRat]

67. I could never co-sleep if I had kids.

I thrash, kick, struggle, and occasionally bite in my sleep. Not safe for a baby.